• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

EU4 - Development Diary - 7th of July 2020

Good afternoon! I am once again eschewing the traditional Swedish summer vacation, this time because I’d prefer to wait until I can safely travel rather than taking a dull staycation in my Stockholm apartment. What that means for you lovely people is that you get summer content dev diaries! Let’s get right into it!

dd_indochina.png


Those of you who know me even slightly will be aware that I love all things South-East Asia (SEA). After 2.5 years on the project, I finally have the opportunity to create the SEA map rework of my dreams. Shown above is Mainland SEA. Burma/Myanmar is excluded from the map rework as I feel that the treatment I gave it during the development of Dharma still holds up. There will certainly be new content for nations in that region however, including what another dev fondly described as the “Shan mission stick” when we played MP this weekend.

The country setup has not been radically altered. The only new additions to the 1444 setup are the tribes inhabiting what is today the Central Highlands of Vietnam. I have, however, added many new provinces and increased the total development of the region significantly. According to the logs, the indo_china_region now contains 64 provinces with 542 total development. Note that these numbers, like all numbers presented in dev diaries, are not final. I’m especially satisfied with how Lan Na fits into its 5-province state, bordered on its west by impassable terrain. Speaking of impassable terrain, the Annamite Range now separates Vietnam from much of Laos, making Dai Viet a drastically more defensible nation.

A design goal for Mainland SEA nations in the 1.31 update is to emphasize vassal play and the development of capital super-cities. We’ll talk about various ways that this will be achieved another time, but one prerequisite for the goal is having nations to vassalize:


dd_releasables.png


Several releasable nations now have cores on territory held in 1444 by Lan Xang and Dai Viet. These nations actually already exist in the game files, but are very rarely seen in 1.30 due to their lack of cores. Unfortunately there aren’t really any sensible ways that I’ve found to divide Ayutthaya or Khmer, though in Ayutthaya’s case Sukhothai can still serve as a vassal to which you can feed your Thai provinces.


dd_culture.png


I’ve also taken a look at culture groups in the region. Central Thai and Northern Thai are now simply “Thai”, which belongs to the Siamese culture group that it shares with Lao and Shan. Countries in this culture group are able to form Siam, though Ayutthaya can only do so via its new mission tree. The “Indochinese” culture group is admittedly fairly arbitrary, but does serve to encompass regions of “natural” Vietnamese expansion on their “nam tiến” (southward advance). Cham has been moved to this group to reflect that we no longer equate culture and language.


dd_siam.png


Next week we’ll take a similar look at Maritime SEA - modern Indonesia and Malaysia. In terms of scripted content you can expect plenty of historical events, mission trees, disasters, government reforms, estate privileges, and more from the 1.31 update. We’ll get to these in later weeks, but for now that’s all I have to say. Until next time, have a good week!
 
  • 198Like
  • 88Love
  • 22
  • 14
  • 10
Reactions:
@neondt if you intend to adjust the trade nodes could you perhaps make it so they do a bit of back and forth instead of going unidirectionally to Bengal and Malacca? I am specifically thinking of how Alexandria, Aden, Basra, Gujarat and in general the India, Middle-east and East Africa interactions are. Right now Molocco and Philippines trade nodes feel really out of way even when flowing trade towards Americas and Southeast asia way too one dimensional.

There was a really lively trade network here independent of its also profitable flow into India and Cape. It was still very much active even with Portuguese and later Dutch presence. This only came to an end when the whole area was taken wholesale by British, Dutch and French in 19th century. There should be a lot more interaction of nodes within SEA I think.
That would indeed be nice, while we are at it could you invert the panama-mexico trade route so asia can benefit from south american trade and gold mines? Or add another connection that flows into the triangle from south america.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
Are Ming still one of your most played nations? I couldn't find the post, but I remember them being like top 10?

I reckon if you set the task of designing a Ming mission tree to the Modders/Suggestions forum you'd probably get some great responses. It seems strange not to have the most powerful tag and one of the most played tags in the game being mission-less, although I do understand your logic.

Ming doesnt necessarily need direct conquer missions. Some alt-history, where ming didnt turn inward and instead gets more tributaries and colonizes america. Some missions coul for example alter spawn/spread conditions for institutions like printing press, so ming isnt a technological backwater.
 
  • 6
Reactions:
This is awesome. I love to see some updates for South East Asia. Just some questions. Maybe we will get a disaster for Majapahit so Sunda can actually not be instantly killed.

(1) Will there be any updates to the SE-Asian colonization game, so it is more historical, rather than just be either Europeans are unable to touch the region beyond colonized provinces or they blob all the way into Thailand.

(2) Will there be any rework of how religion works and spreads in SE-asia?
I'm pretty certain Majapahit will have certain maluses at the start of the game because that's their irl situation in 15th century.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:
I think it will be very interesting if Majapahit player gets 3 choice, to just switch and play Sultanate of Demak and fight a winning war, stick as Majapahit and fight an uphill war, or just immediately give up everything and become Bali.
 
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Historically, nearly all of Indonesia was tributary under Ming China at one point or another. Might Ming see missions to make tributaries of these states? Depending on how far-reaching 1.31 ends up being, could we see the Tu'i Tonga empire as well or some other kind of development of the Oceanic region?
 
  • 3Love
Reactions:
Please consider adding more island provinces to SEA. If you zoom in on google maps in beetween Sumatra, the Malaysian Peninsula and Thailand, you'll notice a lot of them, e.g.

Phuket https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phuket_Province
Langkawi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langkawi
Phu Quoc https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phú_Quốc
some more detail to the Riau islands https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riau_Islands
Oh, by the way, it would be awesome to have some representation of the "Sea Gypsies", maybe an estate similar to cossacks, but with a maritime focus?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Gypsies

Sea_Nomads_distribution_map.jpg

blue: moken
red: orang laut
green: sama bajau
 
  • 14Like
  • 3
  • 2
Reactions:
omg! Thank you @neondt !!

I really love the last sentences of the dd. We need way more of historic events, country/religion specific events, eventchains, govermentreforms etc. That really makes the game/nations different any time even after 100s of hours
 
Last edited:
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Good. I have been waiting 18 years on this forum for a Europa Universalis: Southeast Asia update.
 
  • 6
  • 4Haha
  • 3Like
  • 1Love
Reactions:
I'm glad to see that developers are finally paying attention to SEA.

These are some suggestions based on history that devs may interest.

There should be a mountain range between the Red River and Black River that block between Siponchautai and Dai Viet. It was called Hoang Lien or Con Voi by Vietnamese
The Annamite range does not block the west of Nghe An, during the war of 1478 between Lan Xang and Dai Viet, part of Dai Viet troops attacked Muong Phuan and Lan Xang from the west of Nghe An.
And I think the names of the provinces and their locations are not correct. Sippongchautai was an autonomous territory that tributes to Laos, Dai Viet and Ming, and later to Qing. Sippongchautai in your picture is including Hung Hoa. The southern part of Sipongchautai in the picture is in fact the location of Hung Hoa, and the Hung Hoa in the picture should be Tuyen Quang.
Around the mid-1300s, a small state that the Vietnamese called Nguu Hong existed on Hung Hoa land, this state was conquered by the Tran dynasty but was not annexed completely, this was another autonomous territory.
Muong Phuan was also an autonomous territory that paid tribute to both Dai Viet and Lan Xang. Some historian consider it to be a vasal of Lan Xang. When Dai Viet tried to annex Muong Phuan, a chieftain of Muong Phuan rebelled, Lan Xang assisted the rebellion and eventually led to the Dai Viet - Lan Xang War in 1478. Laos called it the White Elephant War, but it actually no white elephant, it was a war for Muang Phuan lands.
Hà Tĩnh at that time was a part of Nghệ An
Thanh Hoa at the time included the northern part of Xiengkhoang (modern Huaphanh), the French gave the land to Laos in the late 1800s.
Cao Bang was once a part of Thai Nguyen. After the defeat of the Mac dynasty, Mac occupied Cao Bang and created a small state here. Mac was guaranteed by Minh for along time and in 1677 was annexed by Trinh. There was also a small state in Tuyen Quang founded by Bau lords, in 1689 it was also annexed by Trinh.
Hue and Da Nang were Thuan Hoa. Amaravati and Vijaya of Champa, after being conquered, became Quang Nam. The name Quang Ninh did not exist at the time, it was called An Bang. Tonkin and Dong Kinh were the same, the Vietnamese called it Dong Kinh and the Japanese trader pronounced Tonkin. Its official name was Dang Ngoai. Annam was officially called Dang Trong, and the foreigner called it Cocchinchine or Canglan (Quang Nam). Both Tonkin and Annam were under the Le Dynasty, they were quite similar to Japanese daimyo
This is a map from 1838 that clearly shows the territories of Dang Trong, Dang Ngoai, Champa and Cocchinchine:
 
  • 6
  • 5Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Since Siam is formable now, does that mean it's possible that Burma will be formable too? I know Taungoo works and basically is the game's de-facto Burma, but it'd be nice if it had its own tag, tbh.

Also I've been waiting for an Indonesia rework for YEARS. More tags in currently colonizable land maybe? Second looks at tags that are only available at later start dates like Aceh or Banjar?
 
  • 6Like
  • 2
  • 1Love
Reactions:
I hope 1.31 comes out relatively soon or that you guys are working on a big patch for 1.30. While it's playable right now, It has some major flaws that keeps me from fully enjoying the patch and DLC (Bugs and balancing).

Great to see South East Asia getting some love in the form of a minor patch :)
 
  • 1
Reactions:
FINALLY!!!! Great to see some love being shown for this neglected region of the game. I know you commented earlier saying there are no major plans for Buddhism changes in the near future, but I would like to suggest some of the posts I made earlier regarding, coincidentally, a SEA update


 
Last edited:
  • 3Like
  • 1Love
  • 1
Reactions:
Idk if this really fits the scope of this update but i feel polynesia should probably get a huge overhaul, i feel you should be able to play as hawaii tbh
 
  • 2Like
  • 1Love
  • 1
Reactions:
Idk if this really fits the scope of this update but i feel polynesia should probably get a huge overhaul, i feel you should be able to play as hawaii tbh
I cannot think of a worse environment to be stuck with EU4's game mechanics in than the Pacific Islands.
 
  • 6Like
  • 3Haha
  • 2
  • 2
Reactions:
And here I was thinking of a Khmer game soon.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: