Thank you, I appreciate the help and the insight. Looking forward to the future developments of this lovely mod!
Are there any events implemented that have to do with the fall of Tang, five dynasties period and rise of Song?
Like, can I re-enact the historical events during those times?
Zhao take Late Zhou's throne by court coup.That is hard happened in CK2There is no such railroading, there are no plans to add such railroading, and since that whole series of events was quite complex, involved a lot of people (some of which were born fairly late or died fairly early), and took well over half a century regardless of what you consider the beginning and the end it would be a mess to try to add it.
However, there's a Mandate of Heaven mechanic that can cause interesting times for Chinese Imperial realms-- widespread uprisings (in the form of liberation-style revolts with a few tweaks such as giving successful revolters CBs they can use to expand in China and not requiring that the kingdom had a previous holder for the revolt to be possible in the first place), vassals seeking independence or power (and no longer being blocked from factioning for those things with council seats), the crumbling of central authority (in gameplay terms, the loss of the ability to hand out viceroyalties, no longer being able to block vassal wars without calling for Realm Peace, no longer being able to block external inheritance, and no longer being able to revoke titles), foreign realms becoming more reluctant to send tributes/become tributaries/stay tributaries, and the like -- if the emperor is considered unsuitable (e.g. is a Cannibal, is a known Devil Worshipper, or is an Imbecile), if the realm isn't healthy (e.g. there's widespread Depopulation), or if other bad things have happened (e.g. if wars have been lost recently or if the realm is a tributary), which should occasionally result in dynasties collapsing (particularly since losing land, having direct duke+ non-viceroyalty vassals, and the like makes it look more and more like you've lost the Mandate and things thus can spiral out of control), and if that has happened it is possible that someone else can attempt to re-consolidate and eventually recreate China.
Looking at the historical setup, the pre-IC starts -- currently unsupported, but they'll be supported in the next version -- will have Tang somewhat fractured (e.g. the Three Fanzhen of Hebei (and certain other jiedushi in 769) will be independent), so if they don't re-consolidate their Mandate (starting at Average in both starts) could suffer and they could collapse as a result (particularly if they get a poor ruler). The Iron Century start -- also not yet supported -- is in the middle of the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period, and Zhao Kuangyin (Taizu of Song) is alive at the time (he's nine years old) and his father is playable (he's been given a single county), so you could certainly try to establish the historical Song dynasty from that start, though reuniting China as one of the starting pretenders (or Xu Zhigao/Li Bian, who still is a "loyal" subject of Wu at the start) or even one of the stronger non-pretender realms will likely be much easier since they're in a better starting position and (with the exception of Xu Zhigao) don't have lieges that can cause trouble by e.g. revoking any duchies they obtain.
Zhao take Late Zhou's throne by court coup.That is hard happened in CK2
Zhao Hongyin indeed didn't hold any landed titles, but his father Zhao Jing was a prefect of Yingzhou (営州), Jizhou (蓟州) and Zhuozhou (涿州) at some point. Those prefecture were all under the jurisdiction of Lulong. It is not known exactly when he held these titles, but considering the age of his son it wouldn't be unthinkable to be during Later Tang times. As I'm not aware of any prefects in 936 in Zhuozhou, I decided to make Jing hold this title. So, if you don't want to sacrifice accuracy, you can make Hongyin a courtier at Later Tang (as he was then a military officer there) and add his father in Zhuozhou like I did.whose father -- to the best of my knowledge -- actually didn't hold any land in the IC start and thus technically shouldn't be playable if we want full accuracy (in this case we're intentionally disregarding accuracy in the name of fun
Zhao Hongyin indeed didn't hold any landed titles, but his father Zhao Jing was a prefect of Yingzhou (営州), Jizhou (蓟州) and Zhuozhou (涿州) at some point. Those prefecture were all under the jurisdiction of Lulong. It is not known exactly when he held these titles, but considering the age of his son it wouldn't be unthinkable to be during Later Tang times. As I'm not aware of any prefects in 936 in Zhuozhou, I decided to make Jing hold this title. So, if you don't want to sacrifice accuracy, you can make Hongyin a courtier at Later Tang (as he was then a military officer there) and add his father in Zhuozhou like I did.
A statement unsourced and not collaborated by the official histories of Song, including 宋史, and Song-era sources like 宋朝事实. As far as Wikipedia goes, it only appears in English one, Chinese and Japanese which have articles on Zhao Jing specifically mention that dates of birth and death are unknown.Zhao Jing lived 872-933 according to Wikipedia
A statement unsourced and not collaborated by the official histories of Song, including 宋史, and Song-era sources like 宋朝事实. As far as Wikipedia goes, it only appears in English one, Chinese and Japanese which have articles on Zhao Jing specifically mention that dates of birth and death are unknown.
Well, it's up to you. Just saying that instead of completely ahistorical scenario you could have a one historically plausible at least.However, even if Wikipedia's dates are made up that does not automatically make them inherently less accurate than dates made up by someone else (barring Wikipedia's dates contradicting other dates that do exist, of course, but as best I can tell that isn't the case...), so I don't think there's a compelling reason not to go with the former, particularly since we (and very possibly vanilla; vanilla definitely takes liberties with some verifiable dates*, definitely uses some dates with "Wikipedia says X"-style comments**, and definitely have historical characters landed in places they shouldn't be landed without commenting on them being placeholders***, so I wouldn't be surprised) use Wikipedia's dates elsewhere even if they're unsourced (and there's no contradictory information) rather than making something up in those cases.
srry for my english, im from south america.
Could there be an emperor authority system in Japan? Something that would make that from positions like Daijo Daijin you can reduce his authority and prevent him from taking actions against you or have so much influence that you can have more influence than the emperor himself or allow an emperor with a lot of authority to rule more effectively.
Not sure if mentioned already or if it is just me but every time I try to edit ruler the game crashes. I think it might have to do with the portraits.
I am experiencing an issue with China in my game. The Tang Dynasty died without a heir, and so the unrelated man became the next Emperor, founding the Wei Dynasty.
The problem is that when I tried to buy Grace from the Wei Dynasty, I was shocked to discover that the country was Feudal. The Emperor was Feudal. His vassals were Feudal. Everyone was Feudal. Suddenly, I was unable to perform any Chinese action. I have also noticed that the Chinese Emperor is perpetually leading armies and never breeds. He is lucky to have one kid, if any.
I suggest that you write an Event that forces China to turn back into the Imperial System through the On-Actions. I set the Rule where there are no restrictions on retaining that government if you conquer China. You should also force the Chinese Emperor to marry and produce kids. In RL, each Chinese Emperor had, IIRC, hundreds of kids with his hundreds of concubines. You should script this to occur for the AI. Players can do it on their own. In RL, the only real way to break a Chinese dynasty is to conquer it or kill everyone off. I cannot think of any situation where an Emperor simply died without a heir, simply because there were so many heirs.
There is a specific rule you can enable that guarantees the Chinese Imperial government regardless of culture and religion. I specifically enabled that.
chinese_imperial_government = {
preferred_holdings = { CASTLE CITY }
allowed_holdings = {
CASTLE
CITY
FORT
HOSPITAL
}
allowed_holdings_culture = { # Will not get the wrong government type penalty for tribes of the same culture
TRIBAL
}
accepts_liege_governments = { # Gets the wrong religion modifier instead
chinese_imperial_government
chinese_vassal_government
}
free_revoke_on_tiers = {
duke
}
free_revoke_on_governments_religion = {
}
frame_suffix = "_chineseimperial"
potential = {
OR = {
primary_title = { has_title_flag = pretender_chinese_empire }
AND = {
OR = {
has_landed_title = e_china
any_liege = {
OR = {
AND = {
dynasty = ROOT
is_chinese_emperor_trigger = yes
}
liege_before_war = {
AND = {
dynasty = ROOT
is_chinese_emperor_trigger = yes
}
}
}
}
liege_before_war = {
AND = {
dynasty = ROOT
is_chinese_emperor_trigger = yes
}
}
}
}
}
has_acceptable_chinese_culture_trigger = yes
has_acceptable_chinese_religion_trigger = yes
is_patrician = no
}
color = { 118 255 163 }
barons_need_dynasty = yes
can_build_tribal = no
ignore_in_vassal_limit_calculation = {
tribal_government
}
capital_move_delay = 200
can_usurp_kingdoms_and_empires = no
can_create_empires = no
can_imprison_without_reason = no
can_revoke_without_reason = no
can_demand_religious_conversion = no
gets_religion_opinion_penalties = no
gives_religion_opinion_penalties = no
vassal_government_opinion_penalties = no
can_grant_kingdoms_and_empires_to_other_government_group = yes
free_retract_vassalage = yes
#marriage_ignore_religion = yes # Willing to marry regardless of religion IF both have this
vassal_limit = 10
max_consorts = 1000 # The EoC needs to be able to accept lots of concubines!
character_modifier = {
monthly_character_piety = 1
}
## Modifiers
court_size_modifier = 1000 # Intentionally higher than vanilla, to account for characters sent with the Grace system
}
has_acceptable_chinese_religion_trigger = {
OR = {
religion = taoist
religion = buddhist # Otherwise the historical Mongol rulers of China need to have the wrong religion to have access to this stuff
AND = { # Religion is as close as possible to being Taoist
OR = {
# While the unreformed religions won't be cosmopolitan and might be a *bit* more warlike than preferred, we don't want the EoC to lose Chinese Imperial just because he went e.g. Shenist -> Reformed Shenist
religion = chinese_pagan
religion = korean_pagan
religion = viet_pagan
AND = {
has_dlc = "Holy Fury" # Pagan religions would be crusading (and thus non-Chinese) without HF, so HF is required
OR = { # Base religion is good (lacks raiding, is located in/near China, gets stewardship bonus when picking Autonomous)
religion = chinese_pagan_reformed
religion = korean_pagan_reformed
religion = viet_pagan_reformed
religion = ryukyuan_pagan_reformed
}
has_religion_feature = religion_cosmopolitan # An intolerant China isn't very Chinese
OR = { # Meritocracy + Stability (+ one other feature)
AND = {
has_religion_feature = religion_feature_chinese # Meritocracy + Astronomy
has_religion_feature = religion_stable
}
AND = {
has_religion_feature = religion_feature_korean # Meritocracy + Animistic
has_religion_feature = religion_stable
}
# The Thanist religion's unique feature gives access to Eldership (which conflicts with meritocracy) and has Ancestor Veneration (which only works well with a rel head)
AND = {
has_religion_feature = religion_meritocratic
has_religion_feature = religion_stable
}
has_religion_feature = chinese_imperial_package_deal # Meritocracy + Stability
}
NOR = { # Does not have an unsuitable feature - relevant if the "package deal" is chosen or if someone mods in extra Doctrine slots
has_religion_feature = religion_holy_family # Makes shipping off princesses weird
has_religion_feature = religion_harems # Breaks concubinage
has_religion_feature = religion_patriarchal # Incompatible with Meritocracy
#has_religion_feature = religion_equal # Makes less sense with concubinage/shipping off princesses, but regular SoW currenlty doesn't affect those...
has_religion_feature = religion_matriarchal # Makes shipping off princesses weird, makes concubinage weird, makes eunuchs somewhat weird
has_religion_feature = religion_ritual_sacrifice # Not very Chinese, and should make people unwilling to ship off people
has_religion_feature = religion_adventuring # Offensive focus, so not very Chinese
has_religion_feature = religion_seafaring # Looting, so not very Chinese
has_religion_feature = religion_relentless # Offensive focus, so not very Chinese
has_religion_feature = religion_beatification # Eldership conflicts with meritocracy, at least for now
has_religion_feature = religion_feature_ryukyuan_three_mountains
has_religion_feature = religion_feature_ryukyuan_historical
}
has_religion_feature = religion_no_leader # If there is a rel head, the religion is crusading (due to Cosmopolitan being crusading), which isn't very Chinese
}
}
}
}
}
### Culture check for being "Chinese enough"
has_acceptable_chinese_culture_trigger = {
OR = {
culture_group = chinese_group
culture = khitan # Liao
culture = tangut # Xia
culture = jurchen # Jin
culture = mongol # Yuan
culture = kaifeng
culture = japanese
culture = yamato
culture = ryukyuan
culture_group = koreanic
culture = viet
has_game_rule = {
name = chinese_imperial_culture
value = unrestricted
}
}
}
chinese_imperial_culture = {
name = "RULE_CHINESE_IMPERIAL_CULTURE"
#dlc = "Jade Dragon"
group = "RULE_GROUP_TIANXIA"
option = {
name = restricted
text = "RULE_CHINESE_IMPERIAL_CULTURE_RESTRICTED"
desc = "CHINESE_IMPERIAL_CULTURE_RESTRICTED_DESC"
}
option = {
name = unrestricted
text = "RULE_CHINESE_IMPERIAL_CULTURE_UNRESTRICTED"
desc = "CHINESE_IMPERIAL_CULTURE_UNRESTRICTED_DESC"
}
}
RULE_CHINESE_IMPERIAL_CULTURE;Chinese Imperial culture restriction;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
RULE_CHINESE_IMPERIAL_CULTURE_RESTRICTED;Restricted;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
CHINESE_IMPERIAL_CULTURE_RESTRICTED_DESC;Only Chinese, Japanese, Yamato, Ryukyuan, Koreanic, Viet, Jurchen, Tangut, Khitan, Mongol, and Kaifeng rulers can use the Chinese Imperial government.;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
RULE_CHINESE_IMPERIAL_CULTURE_UNRESTRICTED;Unrestricted;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
CHINESE_IMPERIAL_CULTURE_UNRESTRICTED_DESC;There are no cultural restrictions on the Chinese Imperial government form;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
As for forcing the Chinese Imperial government, I was referring to computer players and AI management, NOT players.
Furthermore, I consider it both historically inaccurate and immersion breaking that a Christian Chinese Emperor wouldn't, to some degree, be Sinicized. There is no way that China would EVER accept an Emperor that smashes the Imperial Examinations or any other unique features of the government. It wasn't until the twilight of the Qing Dynasty that enough pushing was done to shut that down. I'm saying that all of China wouldn't magically become Western and Feudal because someone managed to take the Dragon Throne. Just as with the Yuans and the Qings, they slowly became Sinicized and blended themselves into Chinese life. Why wouldn't the same happen to a Christian?
I don't mean that the Emperor's religion would change or he would become Confucian, or that a Catholic wouldn't remain loyal to the Pope. Rather, that he would assume the responsibilities of the Emperor, which included mass concubinage. Remember that tribal rulers and Nomads can take concubines even if they are Christian because of cultural norms. The same would go for the Emperor of China. Culture and religion aren't monolithic in CK2 for a reason, nor were they in history.
A. Why not just exclude the worst ones? For example, coronations and being the religious head could be disabled for China under Chinese Imperialism if neccesary. You could write an Event forcing a Temporal Religious Head to give the title to someone else. As for Crusades, why not just make it so they can't join?
B. It's immersion breaking for the Emperor of China to not be Sinicized. Every foreign Chinese dynasty in history adapted to the Chinese culture and way of life to a degree. They did not have to completely compromise themselves to do this, but things did change. A Sinicized Christian would have concubinage and elder reverence, but he certainly wouldn't have ancestor worship. I would imagine that Confucious would be demoted to a great thinker and philosopher and aligned with the Christian faith. There is no way that a Sinicized Christian couldn't find some fingers pointing at God from such a thinker. (For example, Confiucious has an identical Golden Rule to Christendom and both Familial Piety and honor culture, removing the idol aspect, would be adapted for sure.)
C. Yes, the player should have a right to escape it. Choice is good. That said, I firmly believe that there should be severe dangers and consequences for trying to remove everything Chinese from China's government. Realistically, this would not be allowed. Part of ruling China means- surprise surprise -dealing with Chinese customs and tradition.
D. I was referring to Events that force China when managed by the AI to be Chinese Imperial, not the player.
Also, what do you mean by "a chance to convert back"? A Serbian Orthodox Chinese Emperor isn't going to sit on the Dragon Throne and think "Oh man, this plank hat is so cool, I need to instantly forsake my soul, my people, and my God in order to keep it!". Nor is he going to say "I am going to force my Western feudalism on a bureaucratic structure and NOTHING will come up or have a problem with it!". Realistically, he would be Sinicized, keeping his identity but melting it into Chinese culture and mindsets. This is what the Yuans did and this is what the Qings did.
What does the Rule about ensuring the Chinese Imperial Government doesn't disappear based on culture and names mean? Why not create a Rule allowing players to choose whether or not Chinese Imperialism is enforced?
As for Christian coronations, that is an easy one. Either create a Trait and add it to the list of acceptable coronation Traits (for maximum immersion and potential Chinese-themed Christian coronation flavor) or just have an Event to remove the Uncrowned Trait.
That reminds me. Where in the code is the Casus Belli to actually invade China and become its Emperor? I couldn't find it, and all the Vanilla rendition ones concerning an Off-Map China were not part of it. Besides bordering China, what must be done to become its Emperor?