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CK3 Dev Diary #31 - A Stressful Situation

Dev Diary #31 - A Stressful Situation
Hello everyone! I come to you today with the long-awaited Dev Diary on how Stress works in Crusader Kings III! While the system is relatively straightforward, it does have some rather far-reaching ramifications for how characters choose to behave, so let us dive right in!

Stress
Stress is a representation of a character’s mental well-being. As characters accumulate Stress, they will increase up their Stress Level, with each level causing increasing penalties to their health and fertility values. The penalties at Stress Level 1 are fairly minor, but the penalties at Stress Level 3 can lead your character to an early grave!

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[A screenshot showing the player character with nearly-maxed out Stress]

The primary way that characters gain Stress is when the demands of the realm force them to take actions which go against their nature. For example, a Compassionate character will gain Stress for executing prisoners in the dungeon, even if those prisoners were traitorous rebels or, ahem… inconveniently positioned in the line of succession.

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[A screenshot showing a Compassionate character gaining 42 Stress for executing a prisoner]

There are other sources of Stress too, though. Being locked up in the dungeon of another character will gradually increase Stress over time, as the isolation and neglect take their toll on your psyche. Other causes include overwork or the death of a loved one. Regardless of the source, once a character accumulates enough Stress to pass a certain threshold and gain a Stress Level, they will suffer from a Mental Break.

Mental Breaks

Mental Breaks are a special kind of event which occurs when Stress overwhelms a character and compels them to do something — anything — to gain relief. Exactly what type of Mental Break a character has depends heavily on their personality traits, and each one gives the character several options for dealing with the situation they have found themselves in.

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[A screenshot showing the player character suffering from overwhelming guilt and shame as part of a Mental Break]

Not all Mental Breaks are equal, and the severity of the Mental Break will depend on your Stress Level when the event occurs. A Level 1 Mental Break may cause a Wrathful character to yell at one of their vassals in front of the whole court, insulting them and wounding their pride… but a Tier 3 Mental Break may instead drive that same character to murder their chosen heir in a fit of rage!

In addition to differing by Stress Level, some Mental Breaks are influenced by the situation you find yourself in. As an example, characters who are locked up in a dungeon cell will suffering from completely different Mental Breaks (often of greater severity), some of which can radically change their personality.

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[A screenshot showing the player character swearing vengeance on their enemies from prison]

Regardless of what kind of Mental Break they suffer from, all Mental Breaks give the afflicted character the opportunity to lose a large amount of Stress. Many of these options will also grant the afflicted character a Coping Mechanism trait, which will help them relieve stress in the future and thus reduce the likelihood of having additional Mental Breaks.

Coping Mechanisms
Coping Mechanisms are traits that represent the long-term methods characters have developed to deal with the Stress of their life. Most of them impose some form of minor penalty on a character’s skills, but in exchange they will enhance the potency of all forms of stress loss.

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[A screenshot showing a selection of 4 Coping Mechanism traits: Rakish, Drunkard, Flagellant, and Comfort Eater]

In addition to the passive effects of each trait, each one also enables a unique Decision characters can take to indulge in their vice and relieve a portion of their accumulated stress.

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[A screenshot showing the Decision to visit a brothel and lose stress]

Regardless of the form it takes, all Coping Mechanisms are useful in one form or another. Having the ability to make Stressful decisions at-will is often more useful than a few extra points of Diplomacy or Stewardship, and each Coping Mechanism a character acquires makes it progressively easier for them to manage their Stress. It is expected that most rulers will acquire 1 or 2 Coping Mechanisms during their lifetime, though in some rare circumstances a character may end up with more.

Strategic Considerations
As developers, our goal with the Stress system is not to prohibit or punish players for taking certain actions, but rather to make them think twice about otherwise no-brainer decisions. Is it really worth it to execute that foreign claimant when doing so will give you 42 Stress? Maybe, but maybe not! That is a decision you will need to make when the time comes.

In this way, Stress also gives us another tool we can use to balance the various personality traits against each other. Some traits like Ambitious and Compassionate may have higher numerical bonuses, but they cause you to acquire Stress more frequently or in larger amounts. Others like Sadistic may make your vassals loathe you, but your character won’t be bothered by pesky concerns like morality when they have to do what needs to be done. Who knows... they might even enjoy it!

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[A screenshot showing showing the Skill and Stress differences between the Lazy and Diligent Personality Traits]

Regardless of what personality traits your character has, the optimal strategy with Stress is often not to avoid acquiring Stress at all costs, but rather to strategically acquire certain Coping Mechanisms and leverage them intelligently to keep your character’s Stress at ideal levels. Managing your character’s Stress well will ensure you are always able to take advantage of any opportunities that come your way, while behaving recklessly may leave you Stressed to the point of insanity during a crucial moment of your reign…

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[A screenshot showing a stressed ruler having their very own Nero moment]

Anyway, that is all I have for you this week. I hope this has given you some insight into how the Stress system works in Crusader Kings III, and that this has inspired everyone to think of new and creative ways to leverage the system to its full potential! Feel free to ask any questions you have in the comments, as I will be sticking around for a few hours to explain and elaborate on the Stress system.
 
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I am expecting a darkest dungeon reference with a bone courtier in a event
 
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The problem is that there will be occasions were a Just Ruler will have to execute a wrong doer. My favorite example from CK2, from years back, when the HRE started out on either Gavelkind or Primo, was when this AI Count went on this murder-plot rampage, and had all five of the AI Kaiser's sons killed, one right after the other, over roughly a five year period. Thing is, that Count was caught red-handed each and every time, and the Kaiser was powerless to do anything because even arresting the Count would have been tyranny. So forget about executing the runt, if merely arresting a Known Murderer would've been a tyrannical act.

I agree on this. A death sentence would have been a perfectly reasonable punishment for premeditated murder if caught in the act; that is what trials are for. No one ever said that nobility was exempt from any judgement and sentencing for criminal acts. Only that they ought to be judged by their peers and not proactively sentenced to death (and their lands seized) by the King without a "fair" trial.

That in CK2 a character could murder again and again, be discovered, and still remain immune from punishment was absolutely nonsensical. I hope this is changed.

In fact, in CK3 logic trials would remove stress penalty from passing "fair" death sentences, because the King is merely letting justice follow its due course.
 
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The problem is that there will be occasions were a Just Ruler will have to execute a wrong doer. My favorite example from CK2, from years back, when the HRE started out on either Gavelkind or Primo, was when this AI Count went on this murder-plot rampage, and had all five of the AI Kaiser's sons killed, one right after the other, over roughly a five year period. Thing is, that Count was caught red-handed each and every time, and the Kaiser was powerless to do anything because even arresting the Count would have been tyranny. So forget about executing the runt, if merely arresting a Known Murderer would've been a tyrannical act.

So, for CK3, a Ruler arresting someone like that Count should not only cause no Tyranny Malus. If the Just Ruler decides to execute the bugger, there should also be no stress for executing him because that would have been a Just Act.

So, let's be just a little careful about when, where, and why we hand out our Game Maluses and penalties, okay?

Not all crimes are equal, and maluses/penalties need to recognize that...

So far we haven't even seen that a just ruler would get stress from executions. In the screenshots it is the compassionate trait which gives stress from executions. And even if an unjust execution caused stress to a just ruler, it seems to me your beef is with what is considered "just" rather than the stress system itself.

And it should be noted that getting some stress isn't the end of the world. You need to build up 100 before you even get a minor mental break, and a compassionate character doesn't even get half that for one execution. Presumably there are other events and ways to reduce stress as well, like feasts.
 
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The problem is that there will be occasions were a Just Ruler will have to execute a wrong doer. My favorite example from CK2, from years back, when the HRE started out on either Gavelkind or Primo, was when this AI Count went on this murder-plot rampage, and had all five of the AI Kaiser's sons killed, one right after the other, over roughly a five year period. Thing is, that Count was caught red-handed each and every time, and the Kaiser was powerless to do anything because even arresting the Count would have been tyranny. So forget about executing the runt, if merely arresting a Known Murderer would've been a tyrannical act.

So, for CK3, a Ruler arresting someone like that Count should not only cause no Tyranny Malus. If the Just Ruler decides to execute the bugger, there should also be no stress for executing him because that would have been a Just Act.

So, let's be just a little careful about when, where, and why we hand out our Game Maluses and penalties, okay?

Not all crimes are equal, and maluses/penalties need to recognize that...
You know that your character won't have a full mental breakdown because they acted once against their personality, right?
And that's assuming being Just will give you stress should you execute people, which, afaik, hasn't been stated anywhere.
 
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You know that your character won't have a full mental breakdown because they acted once against their personality, right?
And that's assuming being Just will give you stress should you execute people, which, afaik, hasn't been stated anywhere.
I really hope that's true. But, PDox has a history of introducing new mechanics into a game, and either the AI goes batshit with it, as with Seduction in WoL, or in the original Base Game literally hamstringing Rulers when a vassal seriously breaks the Law, as with that murderous Count in my example.

All I want is for the Devs to exercise some care and caution with this Stress Mechanic. I don't want to see the entire Game world plagued by stress...
 
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The problem is that there will be occasions were a Just Ruler will have to execute a wrong doer. My favorite example from CK2, from years back, when the HRE started out on either Gavelkind or Primo, was when this AI Count went on this murder-plot rampage, and had all five of the AI Kaiser's sons killed, one right after the other, over roughly a five year period. Thing is, that Count was caught red-handed each and every time, and the Kaiser was powerless to do anything because even arresting the Count would have been tyranny. So forget about executing the runt, if merely arresting a Known Murderer would've been a tyrannical act.

So, for CK3, a Ruler arresting someone like that Count should not only cause no Tyranny Malus. If the Just Ruler decides to execute the bugger, there should also be no stress for executing him because that would have been a Just Act.

So, let's be just a little careful about when, where, and why we hand out our Game Maluses and penalties, okay?

Not all crimes are equal, and maluses/penalties need to recognize that...
One incident of a fair and reasonable execution won't provoke unmanageable stress, even for a just ruler.

I was talking about someone playing a kind & just ruler who is doing that sort of thing *without* justification, and often.

And the example you give probably should give some sort of justification to the character who is being acted against. That's not a flaw with the stress system (even hypothetically, given we don't know exactly how it will work), but with the "character has justification to act against other character" situation.
 
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I'm pretty sure it should have been possible to arrest the count without tyranny if he was a known murderer, the tyranny would have come in with any additional actions like execution or revoking his titles.
 
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I'm pretty sure it should have been possible to arrest the count without tyranny if he was a known murderer, the tyranny would have come in with any additional actions like execution or revoking his titles.
I am not so sure CK II wise...
CK III maybe.
I would love a feature / DLC which would allow the player to actual convene courts to judge over another character, presenting the evidence you've forg... found.
Convince his peers. So a count would be tried by other counts of the realm.
Giving the opponent to challenge you to a god jdugement
 
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the concept is great, but everything is bit too exposed and transparent - which is not very immersive. I think some values should be hidden and some outcomes - bit more random.
 
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Good thing I'll never buy this game...
Well, if buying this game increases your stress because it goes against your acquired disposition towards it and does not suit your gamer personality, that is well within your rights and a sensitive move.

We would not want you to suffer a mental breakdown. Personally, I will if the 1st of September doesn't come soon.

EDIT Broken English mended
 
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It's a gameplay abstraction just like all other similar things in CK2. Having your character go to the brothel or going hunting weekly doesn't make for very interesting gameplay, having it happen more rarely gives it much more impact. In "reality" so is your character obviously doing it more often but you can see it as the game only showing the times something noteworthy happened.

I've had quite a few people respond to me saying "its an abstraction", and I do get that, perhaps I phrased it poorly I didn't mean literally taking the decision to go whoring/hunting every single day, my point was more in terms of stress relief are there degrees of coping mechanisms you can do (like a small one once a month) and then bigger ones, less frequently, but with much more impact on stress, but also much more noteworthy as an activity.

So you could take the decision to go hunting once a month to relieve stress if you like hunting. But once every 3/5/10 years you get an event letting you hunt your enemies for sport or something like that. Would be more interesting and immersive than a generic 'stress reliever' event which is 'go hunting' or 'had a beer with my friend' once every three years.

Actually, I would do it two ways - I'd have a regular passive stress reliever you could tick a box for, and it reduces stress gain by X% (go hunting once a week, or to the brothel etc). So player doesn't micro-manage it, but from an immersion POV its still happening. There could be a strategic/gameplay aspect too, as choosing this could slightly increase negative outcome against you - if you're regularly at the brothels, then better chance of other characters getting hooks against you, than say if you were just having a single affair with one person, or if it was widely known that you went hunting on a regular basis enemies could use your this against you in plots (easier to kill you if they know you're always hunting etc.), so it would increase plotpower slightly.

Then the "major" stress relief events would be once every few years, but these would be more momentous and interesting, and bring greater reward/benefits (e.g. instead of an event to go whoring you get an event to host a big sexy sex party while the wife is visiting her sister in another castle, or hunt your enemies for sport etc.)
 
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I can imagine a mod that using this same mechanic could use a variant of the "old gods" event chain to lose your sanity along the way to uncover/fight them/die.
 
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I can see it being funny to lustful characters:
1) 100 stress: you keep a lover in court
2) 200 stress: you start visiting brothels
3) 300 stress: normal sex doenst satisfy you anymore, you must have orgies with a lot of people, you must have sex in public places or extreme fetishes
This just seems like what a lustful character would do anyways with 0 stress.
 
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I'd have a regular passive stress reliever you could tick a box for, and it reduces stress gain by X% (go hunting once a week, or to the brothel etc). So player doesn't micro-manage it, but from an immersion POV its still happening. There could be a strategic/gameplay aspect too, as choosing this could slightly increase negative outcome against you - if you're regularly at the brothels, then better chance of other characters getting hooks against you, than say if you were just having a single affair with one person, or if it was widely known that you went hunting on a regular basis enemies could use your this against you in plots (easier to kill you if they know you're always hunting etc.), so it would increase plotpower slightly.
That is exactly what the trait represents. Being Rakish means exactly that you are going to the brothel occasionally, it has exactly the stress effect and other consequences you describe, and it is exactly a strategic decision as you lay it out. What you describe is pretty much what the dev diary described.

The Rakish trait is not just an unlocker for the brothel decision: it is a lifestyle.
 
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Excuse my question, I'm not really informed about all the mechanics, but why is it that in this screenshot:
image4.jpg


Tyranny is causing all subjects to lose 10 Opinion? Was it normal back then that if you'd execute someone everyone would be displeased?
Wouldn't there also be people that "like" that decision? Why is it that every subject loses opinion and no one gains any?

Thank you for every explanation :)
 
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Excuse my question, I'm not really informed about all the mechanics, but why is it that in this screenshot:
image4.jpg


Tyranny is causing all subjects to lose 10 Opinion? Was it normal back then that if you'd execute someone everyone would be displeased?
Wouldn't there also be people that "like" that decision? Why is it that every subject loses opinion and no one gains any?

Thank you for every explanation :)

While some people might like to see a certain character dead and there perhaps should be a minor opinion gain from executing someone's rival (though, if it is personal, perhaps they'd rather want to do it themselves, possibly after a few visits to the torture chamber, and possibly in a more gruesome manner, meaning they might also get upset that they didn't get to do it...), the fact that you executed someone essentially "Because I can!" rather than "Because they have done [bad thing], and the law is clear that [bad thing] is punishable by death!" should still upset them because they should realize (possibly after having it explained to them, if they're stupid) that you just set a dangerous precedent that could become a problem if they (or their friends/lovers/children/etc.) ever end up at your mercy.

On the flip side, while someone perhaps should lose a bit of opinion if you execute their friend/lover/relative (the last one almost certainly harms opinion) even if the other character indisputably deserves being executed (say because they got caught murdering your heir), they probably would still reluctantly admit that you did have justification and thus not consider you a tyrant because of that act due to the fact that you had justification, and (assuming you don't have a valid execution reason on them) they'd probably not fear that you'd do the same to them if they end up at your mercy in a situation where they are innocent of anything warranting execution (at least as far as you know).
 
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