Playing "Advocatus Diaboli" - Was March 2020 ever the intended release date?

[FacelessOne]

I don't want to stir up anything, pressure the developers in any way or promote any "conspiracy theory" - just some observations I made over time and I'am interested in your opinion on that matter. The following points I want to make don't have anything to do with the current covid situation, so please don't bring that "excuse" if you feel the need to attack me for playing devil's advocate this once.

1. Almost everything we saw thus far was pre-rendered footage. The little bit of gameplay we got back then very much smelled like "Alpha".
2. Almost half of the stuff you can unlock on the offsite via Bloodpoints was/is marked for "2020", which would be only a ~3 1/2 month window if the game were released on March 21th, 2020.
3. We're at this point almost a month behind the planned release date, yet there is not one word from the developers regarding any system requirements.
4. There is no new "proper" release date, only "2020 soon™". Yet the wording in october 2019 "Letter to the fans" suggests that all you want to do is polish the sh*t out of it but that the game back then was near completion.

Yeah... Just needed to get this of my chest. So any opinions?

 

[RagnarokCzD]

I completely understand your frustration ...
Same as i totaly agree with that deafening silence can be source of another frustration. :-/

But i believe (read: hope) that this could have some reasons in E3 that will be happening in electronic version on twitch, and Paradox is on list of guests ...
They ofc could anounce that allready, if there will be some Bloodlines2 reveals, bcs ... you know, hype train also need some gas. :-/
But i was saing, i believe that on this event some new reveals will be made ... personaly i reached for refund button 3 times allready, yet i have to confess ... every time i was too soft, but staring at it longer and longer with every another silent day.

And for those blood points ...
One of facts is that they freeze in time (if im not misstaken) around same time, as clan reveal videos stoped ... funfact: Last thing they said was "stay tuned bcs, we have more for you prepared, we dont know when, but there will be more videos".
But there is also second fact, that no one ever promised that we will have all blood points rewards awiavible before release, or before original release date. :-/

I believe those system requirements can be a bit tricky, if they implement RTX, requirements will change drasticly ... so, maybe that can be one of problems. :-/
At last i believe (still same word) that there is some simmilar problem.

And last but not least ...
About that letter ... that was released about 1/3 year before original release, where allready developers know, that they have no chance to get that "on time" ...
We can asume (still, read: hope) that this mean that there was so much work to do, that they allready know that 4 months are not enough. Meaning (for the last time ... hope) one month may not be enough. :-/

Sumarized version:
Im affraid that your version is a little bit harsh, but i understand why ... and i kind of agree in some points.
(i honestly dont understand why after two months in quarantine we get dev. diary, that told us that they work from home ... i believe we allready noticed that world is "working" differently theese days)

 

[FacelessOne]

I'm not frustrated that the game isn't released yet or that there is so much silence about it. In another topic back in october 2019 I theorised that they delayed because they didn't want to release with other big games (back then stuff like the FF7 remake, Cyberjunk 2077 and other high profile games would have been also released in march before they to delayed) out of fear something similar to the original would happen, which released alongside Half Life 2 and only sold around 100.000 copies.

Lets just say I try to understand what kind of corporatism is behind this all...

 

[LDK Serrith]

I'm hopeful as well that they were/are planning a big reveal of the launch and new vids for what would have been the E3 time frame next month (though I wouldn't mind sooner, of course lol), but I will admit I really don't like the way they have been handling the info for this game. It's one thing to ice things for a bit to update and polish things, but it's completely another to be all but full on silent for months on end, with not even some pics here and there or short but regular dev/writer communication to let us know how things are going. And no, the very minimal half-assed dev dairy on these forums didn't really help, as they were as bare bones as possible.

The thing is all this silence has really hurt the hype and passion for the game. When this was first announced last Summer there was a good amount of buzz going around. While BL1 was never a massive mainstream hit, it definitely had a strong cult following, and that was evident with how much good will and hype there was simply from the announcement. But to maintain that energy you need to constantly be updating the public, especially for a game that isn't part of a massive AAA series. At this point no one but us hardcore fans and those in the wider VtM community are even talking about this game, and even the discussions among us are minimal, as there is nothing to discuss that hasn't been analyzed to death already. A game of like this, of such a niche nature, needs some constant updates. Not even big ones, but some monthly info here and there, or new pics or short vids, to show what the devs have been working on and improving. The fact that they didn't do this has already done a bit of damage to the game, imo. Don't get me wrong, I'm still excited for it, but I'm a hardcore VtM fan. The average joe pretty much no longer knows or cares that this exists.

I have no issue when this ends up dropping at this point. And the delay was definitely for the better, as the game did need some polish from what we saw last year. None of that has been a serious issue. But the lack of regular updates, both info wise, plus the lack of occasional images to keep the energy up with actual visual improvements that we could see, did ultimately drain a lot of passion and goodwill that Paradox should have been aiming for if they wanted the game to be as big of a hit as possible. This is not the type of game where it's smart to wait a few months before release and release a massive bomb of info. That only works for well known, established series' that regularly sell no matter what. Games of this type need regular updates from the devs to keep any form of good momentum, especially after a long delay. That's my opinion on the matter at least.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Yeah, sorry, but I don't buy into these "conspiracy theories". Based on all the information & pre-alpha footage (which was labelled as such at the time, btw) they were showing before & during E3 2019 left me feeling that a late March 2020 release date was entirely viable. However, a lot of people in this forum, & on Twitter, attacked the graphics, animations & AI on display in the Game-play Demo. It wasn't that long after this occurred that the Devs announced a delay to the game to the latter half of 2020.....probably based on this very feedback, & after they'd managed to increase their staff. Learning about the release date of CP2077 probably played a part as well, though CDPR waited even longer than Hardsuit did when it came to announcing a delay.

Its also worth pointing out that, though more information is always nice for those of us waiting for the game, the truth is that they already revealed a vast bulk of the non-story related material throughout 2019 (clans & factions), & there is not a great deal more that they could reveal, now, without potentially ruining the story. If my prediction of a Halloween release date is accurate, then I do expect we'll see a flurry of additional promotional material from around late June onward.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I'm hopeful as well that they were/are planning a big reveal of the launch and new vids for what would have been the E3 time frame next month (though I wouldn't mind sooner, of course lol), but I will admit I really don't like the way they have been handling the info for this game. It's one thing to ice things for a bit to update and polish things, but it's completely another to be all but full on silent for months on end, with not even some pics here and there or short but regular dev/writer communication to let us know how things are going. And no, the very minimal half-assed dev dairy on these forums didn't really help, as they were as bare bones as possible.

The thing is all this silence has really hurt the hype and passion for the game. When this was first announced last Summer there was a good amount of buzz going around. While BL1 was never a massive mainstream hit, it definitely had a strong cult following, and that was evident with how much good will and hype there was simply from the announcement. But to maintain that energy you need to constantly be updating the public, especially for a game that isn't part of a massive AAA series. At this point no one but us hardcore fans and those in the wider VtM community are even talking about this game, and even the discussions among us are minimal, as there is nothing to discuss that hasn't been analyzed to death already. A game of like this, of such a niche nature, needs some constant updates. Not even big ones, but some monthly info here and there, or new pics or short vids, to show what the devs have been working on and improving. The fact that they didn't do this has already done a bit of damage to the game, imo. Don't get me wrong, I'm still excited for it, but I'm a hardcore VtM fan. The average joe pretty much no longer knows or cares that this exists.

I have no issue when this ends up dropping at this point. And the delay was definitely for the better, as the game did need some polish from what we saw last year. None of that has been a serious issue. But the lack of regular updates, both info wise, plus the lack of occasional images to keep the energy up with actual visual improvements that we could see, did ultimately drain a lot of passion and goodwill that Paradox should have been aiming for if they wanted the game to be as big of a hit as possible. This is not the type of game where it's smart to wait a few months before release and release a massive bomb of info. That only works for well known, established series' that regularly sell no matter what. Games of this type need regular updates from the devs to keep any form of good momentum, especially after a long delay. That's my opinion on the matter at least.

Hardsuit Labs are not a big studio, so they really have to be very careful about how they use their resources......even more now that we're in the middle of a global pandemic. So I am glad to hear *anything* from the Devs, however small. That said, though, I would much rather that they focus on completing the game to be honest.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

The thing is all this silence has really hurt the hype and passion for the game.

The hype for Vampire the Masquerade related material is just as strong as it's ever been. The WoD News channel routinely gets several thousand views every week, & the recent X-Box Series X trailer got around half a million views.....& that is in spite of the mostly radio silence we've had since October 2019. I feel quite confident that, once they get the Alpha locked down, they will almost certainly ramp up the publicity for the game.....probably to coincide with the Online replacements of E3 & Gamescom. Again, I do find it funny, though, how the fans expect AAA levels of publicity from a AA studio.

 

[Sh4ark]

Basically the March date was too optimistic. The game wasn't ready and it would not have been ready for an overall positive reception.

The Bloodlines 2 blood point rewards thing is probably very low on an internal priority list. My guess it's all hands on actual development right now. There no need to rush the fluff anyway.

As for the 2020 loose date.. I think it's a good thing they didn't set an exact one back when they delayed it. Would have been even more hard pressed and difficult to deliver now with the corona situation whithout having prior warning/knowlage of it.

They're not the only studio to be in this exact situation. Dying Light 2 is almost in the exact same spot.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Basically the March date was too optimistic. The game wasn't ready and it would not have been ready for an overall positive reception.

The Bloodlines 2 blood point rewards thing is probably very low on an internal priority list. My guess it's all hands on actual development right now. There no need to rush the fluff anyway.

As for the 2020 loose date.. I think it's a good thing they didn't set an exact one back when they delayed it. Would have been even more hard pressed and difficult to deliver now with the corona situation whithout having prior warning/knowlage of it.

They're not the only studio to be in this exact situation. Dying Light 2 is almost in the exact same spot.

.....and Techland are a bigger studio.

 

[RagnarokCzD]

the truth is that they already revealed a vast bulk of the non-story related material throughout 2019 (clans & factions), & there is not a great deal more that they could reveal, now, without potentially ruining the story.

I cant agree with this ...
There is things we can still see, that will not ruin story ... for example: Character creation, character sheet (they could for example confrim or deny the rumor, that we will not be able to distribue xp anytime as we did in Bloodlines, but we have to sleep, as it was in Vampyr), and ofcourse the whole Slugg chase quest, but updated, or taken different path in dialogues.

And personaly i really hope that we will see updated Slugg chase quest in E3 event.

 

[somewherebeyond]

I think they just wait for twitch conference aka e3 to see other big titles release windows, there are some big titles they would try to avoid from ubi, activision. If they still set to release it this year my bet is on july, august, october or november as september is cp2077 month and december will be ac valhalla.

And considering they already stopped hype-train once they don't want to do it again in case they will have to move it to next year.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I think they just wait for twitch conference aka e3 to see other big titles release windows, there are some big titles they would try to avoid from ubi, activision. If they still set to release it this year my bet is on july, august, october or november as september is cp2077 month and december will be ac valhalla.

And considering they already stopped hype-train once they don't want to do it again in case they will have to move it to next year.

Why would they be worried about the repetitive, micro-transaction filled garbage coming out of Ubisoft & Activision? I suspect the only game they are remotely concerned about in Q3 & Q4 of 2020 will be Cyberpunk 2077.

 

[somewherebeyond]

Simple, as they are business and bl2 is a product. Every business want to maximize profit, even if genre differs if there is nothing else on the horizon most people would buy something new.

And if you think that ubi makes garbage, you definitely havent played odyssey.

 

[RagnarokCzD]

All this "try to avoid concurence" seem ridiculous to me. -_-
There will allways be something.

 

[FacelessOne]

Why would they be worried about the repetitive, micro-transaction filled garbage coming out of Ubisoft & Activision?

Because most, if not all younger gamers (I'm build 1984) don't know anything else. For them, lootboxes and all the other scams were always a part of games so the stuff you mentioned will sell like sliced bread. Look at all the flak Naughty Dog and Sony gets at the moment and how bad TLoU2 probably will be, yet I predict it will be one of the best selling games this year.

Don't think, just consume and be happy, be grateful and look forward to consume the next product.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I cant agree with this ...
There is things we can still see, that will not ruin story ... for example: Character creation, character sheet (they could for example confrim or deny the rumor, that we will not be able to distribue xp anytime as we did in Bloodlines, but we have to sleep, as it was in Vampyr), and ofcourse the whole Slugg chase quest, but updated, or taken different path in dialogues.

And personaly i really hope that we will see updated Slugg chase quest in E3 event.

That is all well & good, but I think they will continue to keep their cards close to their chest until they have the Alpha locked down.....& rightly so. The video game community is a very fickle bunch, & quickly turn on devs who promise something-however small-then fail to deliver. Even if its only a very small risk that something they reveal now doesn't make it into the Beta, why take that risk? Personally, I admire their willingess to keep their powder dry until they are sure of the final product. Makes a huge change from most AAA studios I can think of.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

All this "try to avoid concurence" seem ridiculous to me. -_-
There will allways be something.

To be honest, the "avoiding concurrence" is nothing more than a theory on our part. If there is any truth to it at all, I think it is only CP2077 that has them concerned, as that game will potentially suck all the Oxygen out of the games market for at least a few weeks.

 

[aaronshadow577]

Because most, if not all younger gamers (I'm build 1984) don't know anything else. For them, lootboxes and all the other scams were always a part of games so the stuff you mentioned will sell like sliced bread. Look at all the flak Naughty Dog and Sony gets at the moment and how bad TLoU2 probably will be, yet I predict it will be one of the best selling games this year.

Don't think, just consume and be happy, be grateful and look forward to consume the next product.

look marc is right and really why disagree with him? PDX and HSL delayed BL2 because of what people were saying (grapics, animations, etc.) really BL1 was released and still had these problems that weren't fixed, yes there was patches and update's for BL1 that fixed most of this and believe me when i say had BL2 released in march (its original release) with bugs then updates and patches would have fixed them..i argued with a few people (who though the delay was good) about it but they wouldn't accept a game that has bugs and needs update's to fix that..we want a game that has no problems: bugs, glitchs, etc. be honest would you be ok with a game where you get stuck in a wall or glitch through the floor? i wouldn't and as far as we know BL2 has no lootboxes or even microtransactions..really you probably never played games that dont have that..lootboxes are bad like microtransactions
we're almost to that online event just 2 weeks (or 1 week i think) left for this month and june will arrive ik the rest of feel like this person but again
do you want a game released early with bugs and glitches (stuck in walls falling through the floor) that cant be fixed unless you update?
keep in mind a update like that would take as long as the wait for that game to come out BL2 will be good..if you guys can't wait ask or wait for a demo..that event is still a few days from happening and i heard e3 starts the first week of june (atleast thats what i was told) if thats true we have plenty of time to ask if there will be a public demo to download for free on console at our homes..since were stuck cuz of the virus that is and we can try the a demo before buying the game

 

[Marc_Hicks]

look marc is right and really why disagree with him? PDX and HSL delayed BL2 because of what people were saying (grapics, animations, etc.) really BL1 was released and still had these problems that weren't fixed, yes there was patches and update's for BL1 that fixed most of this and believe me when i say had BL2 released in march (its original release) with bugs then updates and patches would have fixed them..i argued with a few people (who though the delay was good) about it but they wouldn't accept a game that has bugs and needs update's to fix that..we want a game that has no problems: bugs, glitchs, etc. be honest would you be ok with a game where you get stuck in a wall or glitch through the floor? i wouldn't and as far as we know BL2 has no lootboxes or even microtransactions..really you probably never played games that dont have that..lootboxes are bad like microtransactions
we're almost to that online event just 2 weeks (or 1 week i think) left for this month and june will arrive ik the rest of feel like this person but again
do you want a game released early with bugs and glitches (stuck in walls falling through the floor) that cant be fixed unless you update?
keep in mind a update like that would take as long as the wait for that game to come out BL2 will be good..if you guys can't wait ask or wait for a demo..that event is still a few days from happening and i heard e3 starts the first week of june (atleast thats what i was told) if thats true we have plenty of time to ask if there will be a public demo to download for free on console at our homes..since were stuck cuz of the virus that is and we can try the a demo before buying the game

Indeed. I also strongly disagreed with a number of people who felt the game needed a delay.......after seeing the E3 Demo......as I felt the game looked pretty good for a pre-alpha. However, the more time that has passed since the delay was announced, the more certain I feel that the choice to delay was correct.

 

[ruzen]

I speculate it was more like a "known secret" situation.
Everyone intended to deliver on time at first but from developer to publisher they all knew it wasn't going to make it.
...but the developers has to be one to approach with these kinds of things and Paradox is quite chill when it comes to timelines.
Abouvsly they didn't know each other well.

So, yea! I think it could be possible. Agreeing OP