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CK3 Dev Diary #18 - Men-at-Arms, Mercenaries and CBs

Hello everyone, and welcome back!

This week we’ll be talking about a lot of additional details surrounding warfare. Just a few bits and pieces that have changed since CK2.

Casus Belli
One thing that is as it ever was, however, is that you need a Casus Belli to go to war, and that CB determines what happens when the war is won (or lost!). The most common ones are for pressing claims, as you’re familiar with from CK2. In different situations there will be a different options, of course, and some are even unlocked in special ways, such as the ones unlocked by perks, as shown off in the Diplomacy Lifestyle dev diary.
Declare war view.PNG


War Declaration Cost
One thing that has changed a little is the fact that different CBs come with different “declaration costs” attached to them. This is usually Prestige or Piety, depending on whether you are starting a war against a fellow believer or someone from another faith. On the other hand, we don’t want to keep you from taking advantage of a great opportunity just because you’re missing 10 Prestige at a crucial moment, so the costs are optional, in a sense.

You can declare a war without paying its cost, at which point you’ll instead pay something bigger, such as a Level of Fame or Devotion.

Levels of Fame/Devotion brings their own benefits, so ideally you want to avoid this, but it’s not as big a problem as - say - truce breaking. It’s not going to cripple your play, just set you back a little bit in exchange for getting to raise your armies and take some new titles while your enemy is weak. This is also one of the ways that Piety and Prestige gain has become more valuable than it was in CK2. You want to use it for more stuff, and it’s always useful to have lying around!

Men-at-Arms
We have talked about armies before, where we talked about the difference between your levies and your Men-at-Arms. Your levies are your unwashed masses, indistinguishable peasants more than willing to die for the few measly pieces of gold you throw their way. Men-at-Arms, on the other hand, are more specialist troops, and the component that gives you more control over precisely how you win your wars. They are in many ways your elite troops, ready to march through mountains and marshes for you.
MaA view.PNG


You have a maximum number of Men-at-Arms regiment slots for your army, and in addition they have an upkeep cost. It’s small when they’re unraised, but the moment you have them stand up to go to war, they’ll demand a lot more pay!

Even though you can max out your MaA slots, there are other ways you can expand your army. Each MaA regiment can be increased a set number of times, to field even more of your deadly warriors. This will naturally increase their maintenance cost as well (both raised and unraised) so think twice before hiring twice as many soldiers!

There are many different types of MaA regiments, and what their type is determines a number of things, such as what terrain they are good at fighting in, and what kind of MaA Regiments they are good at countering, or get countered by. Over time, you may also be able to acquire new types of MaA Regiments. This means that the bulk of armies are likely to be quite different if you start in 867 compared to when you reach the end of the game.
Create MaA view.PNG


MaAs also include siege engines, which is one of the easiest way of speeding up your land grabs. However, siege weapons are almost useless in regular combat, and taking them uses up one of your MaA slots, so it’s a decision that has to be carefully thought through.
MaA siege engine.PNG


In addition to a standard slate of MaA types, different cultures gain access to different unique MaAs. These will vary greatly across the world, but are generally specialised in the conditions of warfare that’s typical for the culture in question.
Camel Riders.PNG


You will also be able to look at battle reports to get an indication of what kind of impact specific types of MaAs have on your battles. This can let you figure out whether your strategies are paying off, or whether it’s finally time to get some Pikemen to counter the Light Cavalry that your rival is always fielding.

So to sum it all up, Men-at-Arms are great for countering specific troop types, adjusting to specific types of terrain, and directly bolstering the number of soldiers in your army! Sometimes, strategising and countering isn’t enough, however, and that’s where Mercenaries come in!

Mercenaries
Mercenaries are familiar to any CK2 player, of course, but they have changed a little now.

First of all, you no longer pay monthly maintenance for them. Instead you pay their cost for three years up front, and then they’re yours for that time to use as you see fit. They’ll stay with you through thick and thin (although mostly the thick of battle).
Mercenary company screenshot 3.PNG


Once the three years are almost up, you’ll receive an alert warning you that the Mercenaries are about to pack up and get on their way! You’ll then have the opportunity to pay them for another three years of service. This also means that they aren't going to betray you the second you go into debt, which I know will sadden a lot of you, but this new system makes it a lot easier to keep track of what you have and don't have during war.

So Mercenaries are an expensive way of doing warfare, but sometimes it’s the only way you’ll survive. However, in order to find a Mercenary Company that fits you in both size and shape, we have a new system for generating them to make sure there's always a wide range to choose from.
Mercenary Hire view 2.PNG


Each culture generates between one and three Mercenary companies depending on the number of counties of that culture, with each additional company being bigger and more expensive than the previous one. They will also pick a county of their culture to keep as their headquarters, and will be available to be hired by anyone within a certain range of that county.

With each culture generating Mercenaries, their names and coats of arms are either picked from a generated list of names specific to their culture so that you can get historical or particularly flavourful companies in there.

On top of everything else, Mercenary companies come with one or more specific Men-at-Arms types, which means that you may want to consider not only which company is the biggest one you can afford, but which is the best suited for the war you’re about to fight.

This should all offer you a lot of varied strategies for how you go about your wars. Is it worth saving up for the CB cost or mercenary-Gold ahead of time? What Men-at-Arms should you be using against your ancestral enemies? Who would win in a fight between the the White Company and the Company of the Hat??

You’ll just have to wait until release to see...
 
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The CK2 political map is pretty useless if you are a vassals since it don't give a good overview over which counties you and the other vassals Control.
I hope you do realise that if you use ctrl+lmb you can see the direct vassals of whatever realm you click on, and do it again to break down each vassal into its components.
 
I hope you do realise that if you use ctrl+lmb you can see the direct vassals of whatever realm you click on, and do it again to break down each vassal into its components.
to be fair denkt has said he didn't play a lot of ck2 and that was a feature added somewhat late in the game's life (don't remember which expansion/patch added it though)
 
They also don't like the hundreds that die in them even if you win the war. Honestly they probably couldn't care less if you win or lose. Most the time it doesn't change much.

Maybe raising peasant levies should also be raising unrest.

That is a cool idea. Rising levies could affect how much income a province gives you. Over time you get less and less tax from the people since most of the workforce is off fighting in a war rather than plow the fields.
Loosing peasants in battle would then lead to slight boost in revolt risk - or in CK3 terms loosing control of the province since new people migrate, come of age and they haven't really been up to date on who's the boss here.
 
That is a cool idea. Rising levies could affect how much income a province gives you. Over time you get less and less tax from the people since most of the workforce is off fighting in a war rather than plow the fields.
Loosing peasants in battle would then lead to slight boost in revolt risk - or in CK3 terms loosing control of the province since new people migrate, come of age and they haven't really been up to date on who's the boss here.
Is it that realistic? The levy seems to be just a few hundred per barony and the levy of the holy roman Emperor in the screenshot is like 6 000 which is not much. If the Holy Roman Empire have a population of 6 000 000 the levy would just be 1/1000 of the population or 0.1%, it is not that much.

However as a game mechanic it would add an interesting risk or cost to using your levy.
 
Just wondering in CK2 if you declare war and the leader of the opposing side dies it ends the war, will this be removed in CK3, really annoying when your on the verge of winning, get into a battle with there leader and they then die which suddenly ends the war or can there be an option if you pressing a claim for someone else to either end the war or fabricate a claim for yourself and continue the war.
 
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Just wondering in CK2 if you declare war and the leader of the opposing side dies it ends the war, will this be removed in CK3, really annoying when your on the verge of winning, get into a battle with there leader and they then die which suddenly ends the war or can there be an option if you pressing a claim for someone else to either end the war or fabricate a claim for yourself and continue the war.
"Your great holy war has become invalid. The king died in battle against you and his realms were split on succession. His primary heir no longer controls the target."
 
The retinue system combined with the levy system makes far, far more sense than having this half-assed "unwashed masses" nonsense combined with what is essentially a retinue system. You can't tell me this is how feudalism works!


As far as I can tell, that's exactly how fuedalism worked.


A few highly-trained elite knights, followed by a small amount of well-drilled professional troops, pushing along a mass of peasant scum with farm implements in front of them as the bulk of thier force.
 
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Yeah uh... it's typically a better idea to just conscript people into an army and deal with local problems or war.

Instead of having a massive standing army. Thus paying all of them, training all of them, all the upkeep associated with it. And worst of all they aren't being productive. So not only do you lose money directly, you lose money indirectly by them not working and making money.

Many Barons would have a tiny retinue, with them just conscripting people to deal with local problems then letting them get back to farming. They [barons/nobility] don't exactly want to go bankrupt from standing armies who do absolutely nothing useful for the most part.

Conscripting a bunch of peasants is an easy way to beef up your numbers cheaply.
 
No army ever fielded peasants, that's another dark age myth. unarmed civilians are only going to stand in the way in a battle.
Peasants in Sweden was not unarmed or neither the people of lowest social class and the Scandinavian countries did have some sort of conscription system and these people was expected to own stuff like a spear, shield, bow/crossbow with 36 Arrows and a helm if I'm not wrong. That is what I suspect levies represent, not people armed with a pitchfork. I think these trained maybe 1 month or so per year, making them maybe more comparable to modern conscripts.
 
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unarmed civilians
I'm not aware of any lord sending unarmed civilians anywhere to die in their armies. Not only is this stupid, as you are just wasting manpower that could be productive farming etc. But its ineffective on the battlefield and reflects badly on you as a noble.

Often in England used as Spearmen and bowmen...

I didn't think this has to be said but nobles at times provided the equipment they thought necessary for their peasant levy. But this depends on the region of the world, of course, like mentioned with Peasants in Sweden.

EDIT:
Basic google foo
"By the 11th century, much of the infantry fighting was conducted by high-ranking nobles, middle-class freemen and peasants, who were expected to have a certain standard of equipment, often including helmet, spear, shield and secondary weapons in the form of an axe, long knife or sword. Peasants were also used for the role of archers and skirmishers, providing missile cover for the heavy infantry and cavalry. "
 
I'm not aware of any lord sending unarmed civilians anywhere to die in their armies. Not only is this stupid, as you are just wasting manpower that could be productive farming etc. But its ineffective on the battlefield and reflects badly on you as a noble.

Often in England used as Spearmen and bowmen...

I didn't think this has to be said but nobles at times provided the equipment they thought necessary for their peasant levy. But this depends on the region of the world, of course, like mentioned with Peasants in Sweden.

EDIT:
Basic google foo
"By the 11th century, much of the infantry fighting was conducted by high-ranking nobles, middle-class freemen and peasants, who were expected to have a certain standard of equipment, often including helmet, spear, shield and secondary weapons in the form of an axe, long knife or sword. Peasants were also used for the role of archers and skirmishers, providing missile cover for the heavy infantry and cavalry. "
The levies in the game basically replace light infantry and skirmishers. They'll have gambisons, helmets, improvised polearms, hand-me-down swords, and bows as these are relatively easy for peasants to get their hands on. They aren't unarmed and unarmored peasants.
 
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As far as I can tell, that's exactly how fuedalism worked.


A few highly-trained elite knights, followed by a small amount of well-drilled professional troops, pushing along a mass of peasant scum with farm implements in front of them as the bulk of thier force.

In Anglo-Saxon England the "mass of peasant scum with farm implements" (the Fyrd) was salaried with 20 shillings for their two month service. In comparison, the yearly income of the minimum gentry (thegn) estate was 100 shillings a year. Quite a good salary for underequipped peasant, no?

No army ever fielded peasants, that's another dark age myth. unarmed civilians are only going to stand in the way in a battle.

Peasants were widely used, and in some Northern European countries free peasants were required to be armed by law.

The levies in the game basically replace light infantry and skirmishers. They'll have gambisons, helmets, improvised polearms, hand-me-down swords, and bows as these are relatively easy for peasants to get their hands on. They aren't unarmed and unarmored peasants.

I don't get why it has to be "improvised polearms" rather than just polearms? Swords were, somewhat surprisingly, not necessarily very expensive either in munition grades: in 14th century (England?) you could get one for six pence (or half a shilling) about the same those days as two day's salary for an archer.

 
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Peasants were widely used, and in some Northern European countries free peasants were required to be armed by law.
Yes, and they were armed.
My point is that the stereotypical image of Medieval armies composed of civilians armed with forks is a myth, conscripted levies came from the peasantry but they were expected to come with military equipment, even if it was definitely on the cheaper end.
 
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Yes, and they were armed.
My point is that the stereotypical image of Medieval armies composed of civilians armed with forks is a myth, conscripted levies came from the peasantry but they were expected to come with military equipment, even if it was definitely on the cheaper end.
Pretty much. And they were the equivalent of HoI4's 'scrapping the barrel'.

A late 15th century example:
"Under the reign of Stephen the Great, all farmers and villagers had to bear arms. Stephen justified this by saying that "every man has a duty to defend his fatherland"; according to Polish chronicler Jan Długosz, if someone was found without carrying a weapon, he was sentenced to death.[1] Stephen reformed the army by promoting men from the landed free peasantry răzeşi (i.e. something akin to freeholding yeomen) to infantry (voinici) and light cavalry (hânsari) — to make himself less dependent on the boyars — and introduced his army to guns. In times of crises, The Small Host (Oastea Mică) — which consisted of around 10,000 to 12,000 men — stood ready to engage the enemy, while the Large Host (Oastea Mare) — which could reach up to 40,000 — had all the free peasantry older than 14, and strong enough to carry a sword or use the bow, recruited. This seldom happened, for such a levée en masse was devastating for both economy and population growth. In the Battle of Vaslui, Stephen had to summon the Large Host and also recruited mercenary troops."

 
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