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I am always prepared to negotiate and capture gains from trade.




To say nothing of the 2010s.




The one problem with my AAR is that I want to find a way to portray many of the America Firsters sympathetically, especially Burton K. Wheeler, who was viciously slandered as a Nazi in The Plot Against America.* Roth portrays him as trying to make himself Fuhrer of the United States despite Wheeler having historically opposed the war because he anticipated that FDR would seize dictatorial powers and crack down on civil liberties (as Wilson had during WWI and as FDR indeed did during WWII). The problem is that it's hard to write an AAR for a World War II game that makes the people that wanted to keep America out of the war look reasonable and not like an annoyance (or worse, Nazi sympathizers).**

*Which is a garbage book that I regret reading.
**Of course some America Firsters were Nazi sympathizers, Henry Ford and Lindbergh weren't Nazis per-se, but they were certainly the part of the American body politic most closely aligned to a lot of Nazi ideology.



This update has made the forum both butt-ugly and wholly non-functional. Truly the Swedes excel themselves.

I actually have to contend with it in my AAR, because, as one of my original goals was to neutralize the United States. I succeeded, but it also made the game rather boring and so now I'm revisiting that decision!
 
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So, German Generals are running, but the Slovak Government is bravely staying put, in Berlin. (after running from Brats in Lava). No one will ever be able to say they flaked on the war.
This is true. But in fairness it is really unlikely anyone will say anything at all about the Slovak Government in Exile.

Tiso will be the last man standing ... or laying under the table ... in Berlin soon
I definitely can't see a (badly lapsed) Catholic like Tiso taking the cowards way out like Adolf.

I am always prepared to negotiate and capture gains from trade.
Capital, let negotiations commence!
Z3wSg01.gif


In exchange for you starting work I am prepared to offer a chapter on the Imperial economic-strategic dimension of Calcium Carbide production.

The one problem with my AAR is that I want to find a way to portray many of the America Firsters sympathetically, especially Burton K. Wheeler, who was viciously slandered as a Nazi in The Plot Against America.* Roth portrays him as trying to make himself Fuhrer of the United States despite Wheeler having historically opposed the war because he anticipated that FDR would seize dictatorial powers and crack down on civil liberties (as Wilson had during WWI and as FDR indeed did during WWII). The problem is that it's hard to write an AAR for a World War II game that makes the people that wanted to keep America out of the war look reasonable and not like an annoyance (or worse, Nazi sympathizers).**

*Which is a garbage book that I regret reading.
**Of course some America Firsters were Nazi sympathizers, Henry Ford and Lindbergh weren't Nazis per-se, but they were certainly the part of the American body politic most closely aligned to a lot of Nazi ideology.
I've never got round to The Plot Against America and after that review I don't think I ever will, so thank you for that.

I'm perhaps the wrong person to talk to about this as I think trying to stay out of the war is reasonable, it's why I'm never too down on the British/French reaction to the Rhineland. (Everything after that is a different matter). But if you are in America, it's not that unreasonable to rely on Europe to take care of that whole German problem and try to avoid getting dragged in.

It's not a cost free choice though, even ignoring slightly nebulous matters around prestige and international standing there is a cost to isolationism. In a world of trade blocks and bilateral deals there was always a strategic dimension to any deal and being an isolationist makes America less attractive as a trade partner. Perhaps that is the way in, how do American Firsters deal with the consequences of their policy as they start to bite?

This update has made the forum both butt-ugly and wholly non-functional. Truly the Swedes excel themselves.
Paradox is living down to it's own abysmal reputation.

"Reorganization of the War Ministry" aka Speer ignored Hitler's Nero Decree
Not quite....

I actually have to contend with it in my AAR, because, as one of my original goals was to neutralize the United States. I succeeded, but it also made the game rather boring and so now I'm revisiting that decision!
That was always a baffling goal. The game is already heavily biased towards Germany, you were playing as the entire Axis giving yourself another massive advantage and then you decided to try and neutralise your biggest long term threat? The last thing a Germany game needs is less challenge! ;)
 
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I've never got round to The Plot Against America and after that review I don't think I ever will, so thank you for that.

I'm perhaps the wrong person to talk to about this as I think trying to stay out of the war is reasonable, it's why I'm never too down on the British/French reaction to the Rhineland. (Everything after that is a different matter). But if you are in America, it's not that unreasonable to rely on Europe to take care of that whole German problem and try to avoid getting dragged in.

It's not a cost free choice though, even ignoring slightly nebulous matters around prestige and international standing there is a cost to isolationism. In a world of trade blocks and bilateral deals there was always a strategic dimension to any deal and being an isolationist makes America less attractive as a trade partner. Perhaps that is the way in, how do American Firsters deal with the consequences of their policy as they start to bite?

For sure, I think the period after the First World War indicated to the United States of going back to play in their own backyard, but the money can keep rolling in from abroad, thank you very much. Then with the moneylenders dragging down the economy... let's let Europe stew this time. We'll sell to the victors, or keep our heads in the sand for whatever is going on.

That was always a baffling goal. The game is already heavily biased towards Germany, you were playing as the entire Axis giving yourself another massive advantage and then you decided to try and neutralise your biggest long term threat? The last thing a Germany game needs is less challenge! ;)

To be quite honest, I didn't expect the game to go quite so pro-Germany. I honestly expected war to start in 1940, so the extra two years of time just made everything completely jumbled. Then I realized that it was just becoming a wehraboo's wet dream and I had to dial it back.
 
I'm perhaps the wrong person to talk to about this as I think trying to stay out of the war is reasonable, it's why I'm never too down on the British/French reaction to the Rhineland. (Everything after that is a different matter). But if you are in America, it's not that unreasonable to rely on Europe to take care of that whole German problem and try to avoid getting dragged in.

It's not a cost free choice though, even ignoring slightly nebulous matters around prestige and international standing there is a cost to isolationism. In a world of trade blocks and bilateral deals there was always a strategic dimension to any deal and being an isolationist makes America less attractive as a trade partner. Perhaps that is the way in, how do American Firsters deal with the consequences of their policy as they start to bite?

Well the Firsters always had their base among the people who made things out in the Midwest or the far West and assumed that no matter who was running Europe they'd still want wheat and auto parts, while the pro-War folks tended to have more investments in Europe and closer ties to the continent.

Paradox is living down to it's own abysmal reputation.

Case in point, that whole comment was supposed to be on Butterfly Effect
 
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To be quite honest, I didn't expect the game to go quite so pro-Germany.

...

I'm quite astonished anyone who has ever commented on the HOI pages could say this about HOI.
Especially with the player playing Germany.
And the rest of the Axis as well.
 
...

I'm quite astonished anyone who has ever commented on the HOI pages could say this about HOI.
Especially with the player playing Germany.
And the rest of the Axis as well.
I think the expectation people have is that, since an earlier war tends to be even more in Germany's favor, delaying the onset of war gives the Allies more time to build up and should make it more in favor of the Allies. Of course, this doesn't actually work out because it turns out that Paradox outsourced the AI to Monkeys with Typewriters, Inc. and you wind up with nonsense like the USA building 184628425 GAR brigades by 1942. Ironically, the UK AI would probably be well-served to have GAR-building instructions sometime in 1940-41 to give it enough cheap defensive divisions to guard its ports from enterprising Sealioning human players

While the military AI is unfortunately beyond saving, it's frankly astounding how much better the game can be made just by patching up the AI scripts to have sensible build orders and research choices. That, and a few obnoxious little bugs like the demobilization manpower bug that sucks a bunch of Soviet MP after the Winter War and limits their ability to build divisions before Barbarossa. Regardless, truly a monumental cock-up by Paradox in just so many stupid, stupid ways.
 
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I think the expectation people have is that, since an earlier war tends to be even more in Germany's favor, delaying the onset of war gives the Allies more time to build up and should make it more in favor of the Allies. Of course, this doesn't actually work out because it turns out that Paradox outsourced the AI to Monkeys with Typewriters, Inc. and you wind up with nonsense like the USA building 184628425 GAR brigades by 1942. Ironically, the UK AI would probably be well-served to have GAR-building instructions sometime in 1940-41 to give it enough cheap defensive divisions to guard its ports from enterprising Sealioning human players

While the military AI is unfortunately beyond saving, it's frankly astounding how much better the game can be made just by patching up the AI scripts to have sensible build orders and research choices. That, and a few obnoxious little bugs like the demobilization manpower bug that sucks a bunch of Soviet MP after the Winter War and limits their ability to build divisions before Barbarossa. Regardless, truly a monumental cock-up by Paradox in just so many stupid, stupid ways.

To be fair to Paradox, the German player delaying the war would in actuality mean the country collapses so reality is wisely pushed aside in this case.
 
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I was more thinking of hipflasking it!!!
All the way to the gallows...
This is probably T&T's best option at this point. A statement that could be used to describe any point between the beginning and the end of this story. ;)

For sure, I think the period after the First World War indicated to the United States of going back to play in their own backyard, but the money can keep rolling in from abroad, thank you very much. Then with the moneylenders dragging down the economy... let's let Europe stew this time. We'll sell to the victors, or keep our heads in the sand for whatever is going on.
Well the Firsters always had their base among the people who made things out in the Midwest or the far West and assumed that no matter who was running Europe they'd still want wheat and auto parts, while the pro-War folks tended to have more investments in Europe and closer ties to the continent.
Projection and assumption are surprisingly common problems in these mattters; "I think like this, so they will think like this." I would like to see how that scenario played out, when economic and strategic reality collided with the Firsters assumptions would they stick to their principles or start to flex. And if they didn't flex, how would everyone else react - a France that did not have the option of buying in US aircraft would be in a very different position.

I'm saying this just because I like the idea of Hispano-Suiaz being forced to licence build Merlins for the AdA's new fleet of Spitfires that the Fabrique d'ombres are producing. They might even get the HS.404 cannons working properly earlier, which would be exciting for all involved.

Case in point, that whole comment was supposed to be on Butterfly Effect
No matter how low Paradox sink in my estimation, they can always find new depths to plumb. In this world of change and flux, their inept incompetence is as constant as the North Star.

To be quite honest, I didn't expect the game to go quite so pro-Germany. I honestly expected war to start in 1940, so the extra two years of time just made everything completely jumbled. Then I realized that it was just becoming a wehraboo's wet dream and I had to dial it back.
I'm quite astonished anyone who has ever commented on the HOI pages could say this about HOI.
Especially with the player playing Germany.
And the rest of the Axis as well.
While it is the last thing his ego needs, I agree with TBC on this. An astonishing admission Wraith. I mean the base game itself is wehraboo's wet dream. :eek:

I think the expectation people have is that, since an earlier war tends to be even more in Germany's favor, delaying the onset of war gives the Allies more time to build up and should make it more in favor of the Allies. Of course, this doesn't actually work out because it turns out that Paradox outsourced the AI to Monkeys with Typewriters, Inc. and you wind up with nonsense like the USA building 184628425 GAR brigades by 1942. Ironically, the UK AI would probably be well-served to have GAR-building instructions sometime in 1940-41 to give it enough cheap defensive divisions to guard its ports from enterprising Sealioning human players

While the military AI is unfortunately beyond saving, it's frankly astounding how much better the game can be made just by patching up the AI scripts to have sensible build orders and research choices. That, and a few obnoxious little bugs like the demobilization manpower bug that sucks a bunch of Soviet MP after the Winter War and limits their ability to build divisions before Barbarossa. Regardless, truly a monumental cock-up by Paradox in just so many stupid, stupid ways.
Your erudite and detailed explanations and eviscerations of the incompetence of Paradox remain one of my favourite things on this board, they always bring a bit of light and joy into my life when they appear. :)

To be fair to Paradox, the German player delaying the war would in actuality mean the country collapses so reality is wisely pushed aside in this case.
"Wisely" if your aim is to make things really easy for Germany perhaps, and of course that is Design Rule #1 for Paradox.

But the ticking clock driving German decision making, and to a large extent British/French reactions, was a huge part of the build up to war. If you are calling yourself a Grand Strategy game that is exactly the sort of thing you should be including, not skipping over entirely as it might make things hard for the grey player.
 
3rd April 1945
3rd April 1945

With the British at the gates to Berlin, the Slovak cabinet had been summoned for an emergency meeting. General Kubela had just finished explaining the military situation using a few short swearwords.

"It is clear that Berlin will soon fall, it is time for us to use the teleporter and escape." Tiso said.

"That is of course a possible action open to us, but I personally would not recommend it." Pruzinsky said.

"Why ever not?" Tuka asked.

"You do realise it was created using mad science in the service of a fascist regime?"

Tiso nodded at this obvious statement of fact.

"Thus it is an evil teleporter." Pruzinsky elaborated.

"We are probably an evil government in exile if we're honest, so what is the problem?" Tiso asked.

"Due to its malevolent nature it can only teleport subjects to the largest concentration of evil it can detect. Previously that was the Führer Bunker in Berlin, which is how we arrived here, but given the reduced state of Germany it has now homed in on Lubyanka Square in Moscow." Pruzinsky said.

There was a short pause while the group shuddered.

"Well as there definitely are fates worse than death, and the NKVD will be very happy to demonstrate them on us, it is heroic last stand time." Tiso decided.

"I'm afraid we can't perform a heroic last stand." Kubela said.

"Why not?" Tuka yelled.

"Well since we lost General Jurech and the (2nd) "Heroic Ultimate Defenders of Paris" Division we no longer have any heroes." Malar said.

"Oh yes, that." Tiso said.

"We can still do a normal last stand." Kubela reassured his leader.

"Yes! Dying futile deaths in a pointless last stand ordered by a Führer! It is all I have ever dreamed of!" Von Killinger jumped onto the table waving his pistol around.


As the Slovak Cabinet tried to talk the deranged Baron down from the table, another meeting was being conducted in Hanover. The Supreme Council Allied Personnel Europe, Generals Overseeing Advanced Tactics, was meeting to decide who would lead the final assault on Berlin.

"The Boche have been preparing Fortress Berlin for months, and we understand the Führer has just appointed a 'Supreme Warmaster of Germany' to lead the assembled troops. Our original plan of letting the Soviets get themselves massacred taking the City has failed, Zhukov is still fannying about in the Baltics, so we are going to have to do it ourselves." Alanbrooke began the briefing.

"This will be a tough fight and, while I am confident in victory, it could be a bloodbath unless handled with skill and cunning. To that end we will need to send our best general to lead the attack." Eisenhower said.

The assembled Generals preened, each imagining that Ike was obviously talking about him.

"We cannot send an over-promoted staff officer." Eisenhower said. Bradley sadly sat down and in the Far East, Percival sat in his POW camp waiting for an audacious rescue that would never come.

"Neither is it the place for a Paratrooper obsessed martinet." Alanbrooke said. Montgomery reluctantly sat.

"Or for a PR obsessed incompetent." Eisenhower continued. Clark did not sit down, because he had already tripped over his own shoelaces. Gavin tried to sit down but missed the chair and then blamed everyone but himself for failing to follow a simple order.

"I will stand again." MacArthur screamed as the assembled staff officers finally dragged him into his seat.

"This requires an excellent combat officer, a divisional leader not a front commander." Alanbrooke said. Wilson sat down while Alexander, who hadn't even bothered to stand up, languidly waved his acknowledgement.

"And of course this is no place for a hilariously voiced but inept, bullying, butcher." Eisenhower said, prompting Patton to flounce out in a huff.

"You can all stand down gentlemen. This will take our greatest general and so there is only one possible choice." Eisenhower said.

"He has been informed and his division prepared, the attack goes in tomorrow." Alanbrooke concluded.


--
Notes:
This is it, the penultimate chapter before the Battle for Berlin. I had to explain why the Teleporter could not just allow T&T to escape, and I hope this has done so to your satisfaction, and because that was a tad short I decided to examine how the Allies picked their general for the final battle.

The AI had picked a fairly dull general, so I decided to improve matters and pick my own. The officer was already in the game, available for the UK to pick and not dead at this point. A suitable medal will be awarded to any reader who successfully identifies this hero before the update.
 
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While it is the last thing his ego needs, I agree with TBC on this. An astonishing admission Wraith. I mean the base game itself is wehraboo's wet dream. :eek:

pmZhTmBUj


"Wisely" if your aim is to make things really easy for Germany perhaps, and of course that is Design Rule #1 for Paradox.

Yup

But the ticking clock driving German decision making, and to a large extent British/French reactions, was a huge part of the build up to war. If you are calling yourself a Grand Strategy game that is exactly the sort of thing you should be including, not skipping over entirely as it might make things hard for the grey player.

Have expressed a wish for someone to make such a game at some point. Maybe one day.

"Thus it is an evil teleporter." Pruzinsky elaborated.

Brilliant.

"This will be a tough fight and, while I am confident in victory, it could be a bloodbath unless handled with skill and cunning. To that end we will need to send our best general to lead the attack." Eisenhower said.

...hmm.

in the Far East, Percival sat in his POW camp waiting for an audacious rescue that would never come.

What a shame.

"You can all stand down gentlemen. This will take our greatest general and so there is only one possible choice." Eisenhower said.

...What, marshal? ;)
 
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O it's the final days, and teleporting to Moscow is likely to lead to a fate worse than death. Of course, teleporting to Ankara would spell an even worse fate, but we don't talk about that...

My bet is on General Carton de Wiart. Not because he was born in my home town, but because he was a brilliant madman and a badass, and he fits the description given by Ike. Well, except for the fact that he's actually in China at this point in the war...
 
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Your erudite and detailed explanations and eviscerations of the incompetence of Paradox remain one of my favourite things on this board, they always bring a bit of light and joy into my life when they appear.
Aw, shucks.

"Wisely" if your aim is to make things really easy for Germany perhaps, and of course that is Design Rule #1 for Paradox.

But the ticking clock driving German decision making, and to a large extent British/French reactions, was a huge part of the build up to war. If you are calling yourself a Grand Strategy game that is exactly the sort of thing you should be including, not skipping over entirely as it might make things hard for the grey player.
In fairness to Paradox, much as it pains me to be so, they do face a certain challenge in designing the game to be played by both player and AI. If the player is always Germany, then the design is in theory quite simple (and in practice, quite impossible for Paradox, but be that as it may), simply balance the economic instability against mobilization and challenge the player to hold the peacetime economy together long enough to build enough forces to defeat Poland --> France --> USSR. Thus the player has the option of an earlier war, with likely-insufficient forces, or a later war on the off-chance their economy somehow hasn't collapsed already.

The problem, as always, is the AI - that is, if the AI has to play as Germany, a France which gives the player a right proper challenge will simply eviscerate an AI Germany, while a France AI that is balanced against AI Germany will offer no challenge to the player and an early war becomes easily preferable (this is what happens in game already). Of course, this could be solved by creating an asymmetric game, i.e. one where the AI cheats against the player, but Paradox seems to shy away from such things and so we must rely on the modders to solve these problems for us. And as brilliant as they are "reliable" is hardly in the modders' collective vocabulary. :p

"Due to its malevolent nature it can only teleport subjects to the largest concentration of evil it can detect. Previously that was the Führer Bunker in Berlin, which is how we arrived here, but given the reduced state of Germany it has now homed in on Lubyanka Square in Moscow." Pruzinsky said.
Japan has unfortunately for T&T spread their evil too far out across too many fronts to mass a sufficient concentration for the teleporter to target, say, Tokyo or somewhere.

The Supreme Council Allied Personnel Europe, Generals Overseeing Advanced Tactics
Brilliant! :D

Notes:
This is it, the penultimate chapter before the Battle for Berlin. I had to explain why the Teleporter could not just allow T&T to escape, and I hope this has done so to your satisfaction, and because that was a tad short I decided to examine how the Allies picked their general for the final battle.

The AI had picked a fairly dull general, so I decided to improve matters and pick my own. The officer was already in the game, available for the UK to pick and not dead at this point. A suitable medal will be awarded to any reader who successfully identifies this hero before the update.
My guess is hardly unique, it seems, but I'm betting on Carton de Wiart as well, for general colourfulness as well as having one of the more amusing names to pronounce amongst the British leaders. And also, in a world in which hat and mustache styles determine so much of a general's combat effectiveness, clearly an eyepatch is the most superior accessory any general can have. :cool:
 
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Come on, you nearly had it bang on for VE day and to miss it now after all this time by one day?

Sheesh, must be a British commander in charge of taking Berlin.
 
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The Supreme Council Allied Personnel Europe, Generals Overseeing Advanced Tactics
:rolleyes: But amusing. ;)
Japan has unfortunately for T&T spread their evil too far out across too many fronts to mass a sufficient concentration for the teleporter to target, say, Tokyo or somewhere.
It seems the concentration of evil has not developed entirely in Japan’s favour.

On the game balance debate: the (initial, anyway) overpowering of Germany is one of the reasons I find it more enjoyable playing against them. Though I note some people (often the same ones as object to the set up) also object to the MP crunch that drags them back later.

I think also those arguing it’s just hard to even out the human-AI disparity are right - even with a reasonable AI. So you either need to craft a set up that makes it a fair challenge whoever you play (difficulty level, start year, player rules on use of AI command etc, picking a smaller power and so on). A bit like you did @El Pip in making sure Overlord didn’t fail at its start.

If the game engine itself can’t provide the challenge, scenario or map mod type set ups could be the answer. Don’t try to make the game do what it can’t, but tinker with it set up for the major powers to handicap it for them in a bespoke manner. You can change a whole bunch of things if you want to. Even script some events (in the played country and/or its opponents) if you want to go that far. Leave the rest up to the player to determine their own handicap. So, France Challenge scenario might start in 1938, fiddle with some aspects of the base or unit set ups, etc

Not realistic in absolute terms, I know, but unless you have MP human players, until Skynet is in operation I doubt any AI will be up to it alone.

I‘m at a loss as to who the mystery general might be: is the main selection criterion competence, irony/comedy or jauntiness? Or the triple threat of all those? Or perhaps a zombie, who is therefore unafraid of death? o_O:confused:
 
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:rolleyes: But amusing. ;)
It seems the concentration of evil has not developed entirely in Japan’s favour.

On the game balance debate: the (initial, anyway) overpowering of Germany is one of the reasons I find it more enjoyable playing against them. Though I note some people (often the same ones as object to the set up) also object to the MP crunch that drags them back later.

I think also those arguing it’s just hard to even out the human-AI disparity are right - even with a reasonable AI. So you either need to craft a set up that makes it a fair challenge whoever you play (difficulty level, start year, player rules on use of AI command etc, picking a smaller power and so on). A bit like you did @El Pip in making sure Overlord didn’t fail at its start.

If the game engine itself can’t provide the challenge, scenario or map mod type set ups could be the answer. Don’t try to make the game do what it can’t, but tinker with it set up for the major powers to handicap it for them in a bespoke manner. You can change a whole bunch of things if you want to. Even script some events (in the played country and/or its opponents) if you want to go that far. Leave the rest up to the player to determine their own handicap. So, France Challenge scenario might start in 1938, fiddle with some aspects of the base or unit set ups, etc

Not realistic in absolute terms, I know, but unless you have MP human players, until Skynet is in operation I doubt any AI will be up to it alone.

I‘m at a loss as to who the mystery general might be: is the main selection criterion competence, irony/comedy or jauntiness? Or the triple threat of all those? Or perhaps a zombie, who is therefore unafraid of death? o_O:confused:

I am curious about who the obvious, clear cut choice is given that Pip pretty much summarily dismissed the vast majority of British officers who have ever existed beforehand: no overpromoted flag officers, no lunatics, no glory hounds, no politicos, no veneral slugs masquerading as military...he didn't say genocidal maniac or would-be dictator so quite a few previous heads of state could be wheeled in I suppose but pop culturally speaking, on land, the British seem to find the silliest people possible and put them in charge.
 
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the British seem to find the silliest people possible and put them in charge.
That’s one of those irregular adjectives: “I am idiosyncratic, you are silly, he is stark raving bonkers.“ ;)
 
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