The game's modding potential

[Daniel1312]

Good evening everybody!

We all know that since a long time ago EU4 has come out. Some people say it is absolutely superiour to the previous game, others disagree in some points. I don't think it is necessary to repeat all the arguments here since most of them are well-known, but what I want to say is that in my opinion, EU3 still has great potential due to the fact that it is not overloaded with way too many mechanics and DLCs. It is simple to learn to play and is rather solid.

Having said this, I want to find out how many people still enjoy playing EU3. If there are a lot of us, I could try to bring to life one of my ideas - what if we add some depth to the core game by deepening the core expansion mechanic, adding some features from Eu4 and rebalancing the game a bit?

In such a way we could have the easy Eu3 + the most successful ideas from Eu4 + some new stuff that would make the game more realistic.
Your opinions and thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[gigau]

I won't speak for the size of the audience, but note that current EUIV, even without any DLC, offers better modding capabilities, allowing to do more in an easier way.

That being said, just food for thought...

 

[Daniel1312]

I won't speak for the size of the audience, but note that current EUIV, even without any DLC, offers better modding capabilities, allowing to do more in an easier way.

That being said, just food for thought...

What I really wanted to add is a system that would prevent countries from growing unstoppably like snowballs. That would make grand empires a bit... inefficient and that would give a choice - be not so big but efficient, or expand as much as possible but be weaker. If Eu4 suits better for such an idea, I would pick it.

 

[Kovax]

In EU3, half of the problem is that the traditional "blob" countries have or get cores on everyone around them, either at the start or through missions and events. You can declare a war, infamy-free, to take a core of your country, rather than getting a "discount" on infamy for it. There should ALWAYS be at least some Infamy for declaring a war, no matter how justified. I like the Infamy discounts in EU3 far better than the "all or nothing" CBs in many other Paradox games, where you get NO Infamy if you have an excuse, but there are still too many exceptions.

There are already several mechanisms in place to reduce the "blobbing" problem, with tech research becoming less efficient with more provinces, 50 year delays for provinces to become cores, and Infamy to limit naked aggression. On the other hand, there's nothing to simulate the communications delays, the delegation of authority and military forces to distant governors (with a chance of them revolting), the growing difficulty of shipping new recruits or established units to distant parts of a large empire to defend the expanded borders, as well as supplying more than small forces at a distance, and other mechanisms which tend to lower the efficiency of large empires.

EU3 does simulate revolt risk, and has a penalty for too many non-core provinces, but there should also be a gradual penalty for too many provinces, core or not, so the first weak ruler to come along is likely to have serious problems holding it together.

 

[Daniel1312]

In EU3, half of the problem is that the traditional "blob" countries have or get cores on everyone around them, either at the start or through missions and events. You can declare a war, infamy-free, to take a core of your country, rather than getting a "discount" on infamy for it. There should ALWAYS be at least some Infamy for declaring a war, no matter how justified. I like the Infamy discounts in EU3 far better than the "all or nothing" CBs in many other Paradox games, where you get NO Infamy if you have an excuse, but there are still too many exceptions.

There are already several mechanisms in place to reduce the "blobbing" problem, with tech research becoming less efficient with more provinces, 50 year delays for provinces to become cores, and Infamy to limit naked aggression. On the other hand, there's nothing to simulate the communications delays, the delegation of authority and military forces to distant governors (with a chance of them revolting), the growing difficulty of shipping new recruits or established units to distant parts of a large empire to defend the expanded borders, as well as supplying more than small forces at a distance, and other mechanisms which tend to lower the efficiency of large empires.

EU3 does simulate revolt risk, and has a penalty for too many non-core provinces, but there should also be a gradual penalty for too many provinces, core or not, so the first weak ruler to come along is likely to have serious problems holding it together.

Well, partly agree, though all the mechanisms mentioned are not enough. I'm playing Eu3 as France now and I've got a giant Austria. It expands and expands non-stop. They absolutely do not care that "the whole world hates them", other countries don't try to stop them. I tried - and other nations refused to support me. Now my armies can't stop them for they are way too strong.
They are terribly stable, horribly powerful and absolutely ignorant of the possible consequences of their expansion. It shouldn't work like this...

 

[Kovax]

Well, partly agree, though all the mechanisms mentioned are not enough. I'm playing Eu3 as France now and I've got a giant Austria. It expands and expands non-stop. They absolutely do not care that "the whole world hates them", other countries don't try to stop them. I tried - and other nations refused to support me. Now my armies can't stop them for they are way too strong.
They are terribly stable, horribly powerful and absolutely ignorant of the possible consequences of their expansion. It shouldn't work like this...

Wait until they lose the next HRE election (Infamy does horrible things to reelection chances), and suddenly have to face the lower troop limits of a mere member state again. As Emperor, they're definitely a problem in some games, but I've seen them blob into a major power only to collapse into a second-rate country of 3-4 provinces in others. France is usually the bigger problem, unless they lose a couple of early wars to England and Burgundy. If I manage to contain France and Austria, then Spain (or Portugal in a couple of games) usually becomes a colonizing giant.

 

[Daniel1312]

Wait until they lose the next HRE election (Infamy does horrible things to reelection chances), and suddenly have to face the lower troop limits of a mere member state again. As Emperor, they're definitely a problem in some games, but I've seen them blob into a major power only to collapse into a second-rate country of 3-4 provinces in others. France is usually the bigger problem, unless they lose a couple of early wars to England and Burgundy. If I manage to contain France and Austria, then Spain (or Portugal in a couple of games) usually becomes a colonizing giant.

Thanks a lot!
But won't their infamy drop before the elections? It's about 54 now and I'm afraid I have no time to wait... Right now I've ended the war in status-quo, but it's obvious I will have to do something about Austria in the nearest future. They've already nearly unified Germany...

 

[Kovax]

54 Infamy, minus about 1 per year depending on the Emperor, and plus for whatever non-core HRE provinces they have, and you're worried about it dropping too fast? Usually, they end up with a handful of illegal non-core HRE provinces, which is at least half of WHY their Infamy is through the roof in the first place. With more than about 10 Infamy, I would expect them to lose the election unless they have several electors as vassals. With 54, there's no way, and my guess is that the number will INCREASE, not drop, for a couple of decades unless they spin off a few vassals or lose provinces. That's pretty close to "self-destruct" levels, although the AI may be going for the "all or nothing" risk: either unify Germany by force or crash and burn while trying.

In case you don't already know, hover over their current infamy rating (probably "Dishonorable Scum"), and it should show all of the modifiers affecting its increase or decrease.

 

[Daniel1312]

54 Infamy, minus about 1 per year depending on the Emperor, and plus for whatever non-core HRE provinces they have, and you're worried about it dropping too fast? Usually, they end up with a handful of illegal non-core HRE provinces, which is at least half of WHY their Infamy is through the roof in the first place. With more than about 10 Infamy, I would expect them to lose the election unless they have several electors as vassals. With 54, there's no way, and my guess is that the number will INCREASE, not drop, for a couple of decades unless they spin off a few vassals or lose provinces. That's pretty close to "self-destruct" levels, although the AI may be going for the "all or nothing" risk: either unify Germany by force or crash and burn while trying.

In case you don't already know, hover over their current infamy rating (probably "Dishonorable Scum"), and it should show all of the modifiers affecting its increase or decrease.

Well, they've already conquered most of HRE states. So, I reckon the remaining ones may vote for them when they become their vassals.

 

[Kovax]

Once they pass the reform BEFORE the on vassalizing the entire HRE, there will be no further elections. They become hereditary Emperor. Once they've reached that point, then you're stuck with them as-is. If not there yet, then they'll probably crash and burn when the next Emperor gets elected.

 

[Daniel1312]

Once they pass the reform BEFORE the on vassalizing the entire HRE, there will be no further elections. They become hereditary Emperor. Once they've reached that point, then you're stuck with them as-is. If not there yet, then they'll probably crash and burn when the next Emperor gets elected.

Well, will see rather soon, thanks.
Although, now I won't be able to fight them due to some uprisings all over the country and in colonies.