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CK3 Dev Diary #19: Factions and Civil Wars

Hello kings and queens, dukes and duchesses! I am back with another Dev Diary, and today we’re going to be talking about Factions and Civil Wars in Crusader Kings III!

Much like in CK2, vassals who are unhappy with the current state of affairs in the realm will create a Faction that other vassals can then join. Factions that grow large enough will eventually deliver an ultimatum to their liege, demanding certain concessions in exchange for continued peace.

Anatomy of a Faction
DD_WM_ExampleFaction.png

[A screenshot showing a Claimant Faction with Faction Members, Discontent, and Military Power displayed]

All Factions have a Military Power rating, which is a ratio between the combined military strength of all members and the military strength of their liege. Factions also have a Discontent score, which gauges how close the Faction is to sending their ultimatum.

Factions will begin accruing Discontent once their Military Power goes over a certain threshold, typically 80%. Stronger Factions acquire Discontent rapidly in an attempt to seize the moment, while weaker Factions hem and haw a little in the hopes that more supporters will join their cause. Either way, once Discontent reaches 100% the Faction will soon deliver their ultimatum; at that point, their liege must either accept their demands or fight all joined faction members in a civil war.

Civil Wars
DD_WM_CivilWarBorders.png

[A screenshot of the map showing several Faction Members at war with their liege, who is the player]

Unlike in CK2, when a civil war is declared faction members do not form a new temporary realm. While they nominally remain vassals of their liege, they will immediately stop providing taxes and levies to them, and their liege will lose access to certain powers (such as imprisonment).

During a civil war the faction members turn hostile to both their liege and all non-faction vassals, though they will focus on fighting their liege. The exact war goal varies depending on the Faction type, but both sides earn war score by defeating hostile armies and sieging down hostile provinces.

Once one side emerges triumphant, they will enforce their demands. A victorious Faction will enforce their ultimatum with some additional concessions thrown in, while a victorious liege will imprison all faction members and gain title revocation reasons against them. If a white peace is agreed to, things largely go back to the way they were, though the liege gains an imprisonment reason against all the rebels. Actually imprisoning the rebels is another matter entirely, as a failed imprisonment attempt can trigger another rebellion.

Types of Factions
There are currently 5 distinct types of Factions, each of which has its own goals.

  • The Independence Faction, seeking to gain independence from their liege.
  • Claimant Factions, seeking to replace their liege with a new one.
  • The Liberty Faction, seeking to reduce Crown Authority in the realm.
  • Populist Factions, seeking to form a new realm of their religion and culture.
  • The Peasant Faction, seeking to pay fewer taxes to their liege.

Vassals only join The Independence Faction if they feel like they do not belong in their liege’s realm. This can be due to a variety of reasons, but it generally boils down to a combination of three major factors: not being a de jure vassal of their liege, not sharing their liege’s culture [group], and their religious hostility towards their liege (more on that in a future Dev Diary!). As a result, Independence Factions tend to be ‘clumpy’, forming distinct regional blocs within a realm.

DD_WM_IndependenceWarTerms.png

[A screenshot of an ongoing Independence Faction War against the HRE, showing the clustering of rebels within Italy]

Claimant Factions, on the other hand, are all about opinion. Vassals who personally dislike their liege while still feeling like they belong to their liege’s realm will favor this type of Faction. Of course, Claimant Factions are also an area where opportunistic vassals can push to acquire titles for themselves or their relatives!

The Liberty Faction is the place for vassals who are almost happy with the current state of affairs. They want to lower either the realm’s crown authority laws or their obligations to their liege, and are typically the easiest Faction to manage.

Populist and Peasant Factions are special in that they are not created by unhappy vassals. Instead, they are created by unhappy counties.

DD_WM_CountyFactions.png

[A screenshot of the Faction Tab showing an active Kurdish Apostolic Populist Faction and a Peasant Rabble Faction]

Much like vassals, counties have an opinion of their holder which is influenced by culture, religion, events, and war. When the opinion of a county drops too low, they will join one of these two factions. Like the other factions, if these factions gain enough Discontent, they will send an ultimatum, and will revolt if the ultimatum is refused. This completely replaces the random province revolt chance that existed in CK2 — gone are the days of “Duke McPeasantFace has declared the 19th Orthodox Uprising on you.”

Populist Factions are the more dangerous type of county faction and form when counties wish to be governed by a ruler of their own culture and/or religion. While Populist Factions are created by and primarily consist of counties, sympathetic vassals in your realm may also pledge loyalty to their cause. A successful Populist revolt will cause all member counties and vassals to break away and form a new realm!

While an Independence Faction causes all members split off into their own separate realms, a Populist Faction will create a single realm with all members united under one ruler. That ruler will always share the Faction’s culture and religion, and as a hero of the liberation war they will almost always be a competent commander. In addition, a successful Populist Faction will automatically usurp or create an appropriate title for their leader to hold, which can even generate new Kingdom-tier titles in certain circumstances!

DD_WM_SuccessfulPopularRevolt.png

[A screenshot of the Kingdom of Jüterbog, split off of the HRE by a successful Polabian Popular Revolt]

All of this taken together means that any realm formed by Popular Revolt will end up being a formidable foe that likely has several De Jure claims on its neighbors. This can substantially alter the balance of power in your region — even if you weren't the initial faction target!

On the other hand, Peasant Rabble are the simplest and least dangerous type of Faction. Unlike all other Factions, there is no minimum Military Power requirement for the Peasant Rabble to revolt, and its Discontent will always tick upwards at a constant rate. When the Rabble inevitably revolt, they will almost certainly be weaker than the liege they are targeting — but don’t let that lull you into a false sense of security! Every time the Rabble’s forces occupy a county, all of that county’s levies will immediately join them. What started as a minor uprising can quickly balloon out of control if left unchecked! Luckily their only demands are to pay reduced taxes and provide fewer levies to their liege, which is an annoying if manageable setback.

Faction Management

So as a ruler, how do you manage all of these Factions? Well, there are several ways!

For starters, any alliances you have made with your vassals will prevent them from joining a Faction against you. This makes arranged marriages within your realm valuable even if you don’t benefit as much militarily as you would from a foreign marriage.

Adding to this, any vassals you have a hook on will be unable to join a Faction against you, whether that hook is due to them owing you a favor or due to blackmail.

You can also attempt to intimidate vassals away from their Faction, as a high Dread will lower their willingness to be in one. If the threat of imprisonment and torture doesn’t work, actual imprisonment will — vassals in your dungeons can not be part of any Faction. Just be careful, as an unjust imprisonment attempt may provoke a powerful Faction into revolting early, regardless of their Discontent!

DD_WM_FactionRetaliation.png

[A screenshot warning the player that imprisoning this vassal may trigger a Faction Revolt]

Finally, if all else fails you can actually address the grievances your vassals have with you. Vassals who are happy enough will never join any kind of faction, which means improving their opinion of you and fixing structural issues in your realm will ensure that nobody challenges your rule!

That is all for this week, but I have an extra special treat in store you next time when we finally begin diving into how religion works in Crusader Kings III!

Blooper Reel: The Extremely Popular Revolt
Very early on in CK3's development, I started looking into ways to make Popular Revolts more challenging. No matter how large a revolt got, their forces would always be spread out across all of their member counties, making it trivial to pick off their armies one at a time.

To help remedy this, instead of letting each county spawn its own army I made it so each duchy would spawn a single army based on the combined military power of all faction counties inside of it. However, I made a mistake — instead of adding up the military power of all counties in a duchy, I accidentally added up the military power of all counties in the world... per duchy.

DD_WM_Blooper_RevoltingPeasantsCut.png


It turns out that no matter how many knights you have or how good of a commander you are, 8.8 million angry peasants will overwhelm you in battle every time.
 
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The progress bars that let you keep an eye on exactly when factions are gonna revolt is a bit game-y but I like how popular revolts and peasant revolts are handled.


I assume if you're a different culture as your lord you can join in with a cultural revolt just like the AI? If you're the only (or most powerful) landed vassal in a popular revolt, do you take leadership (and thus the titles) after the revolt instead of becoming vassal to a random rowdy nobody generated for the rebellion?
 
So will we finally see a somewhat stable byzantine empire this time instead of one that's constantly hopping from one civil war into the other?
 
Love all of this!
Really like that you can marry your family to your vassals now, adds a lot of fun diplomacy to the game and is historically accurate (I believe?), it's one of the main features I always wanted in ck2 and should make it more interesting when managing a large realm.
You could already marry family to vassals and keep them out of factions with a non-aggression pact in CK2, actually
 
In the dev diary you said that the populist (By the way, why aren't they called nationalists or something along those lines? At least they seem to be all about that...) faction's new realm get a fancy generated character. Is that always the case? I think that if the faction has any landed character as a member, it would be much more interesting to have him (or the most powerful one) to become the ruler, since its a 'familiar face'.
Nationalism as a concept didn't really exist yet in our time period, and the Populist Faction is somewhat different in that regard. It's not necessarily about unifying all [culture] peoples into a single realm, but rather about a group of disgruntled peasants being unhappy with foreign or infidel rulership and deciding to do something about it. They don't particularly care about making a single unified realm for all [culture] or [religion] peoples, they just want to change their own situation.

We initially toyed with letting landed characters become leaders of the Populist Faction (and the eventual rulers of the splinter-realm) but that ended up causing a myriad of problems as landed characters make/break alliances, join/leave factions, gain/lose hooks, and ultimately create way more edge cases than we could reasonably account for. However, if an existing unlanded claimant is floating around in the character pool somewhere (for example, a displaced King of Castille if the Umayyads manage to subjugate all of Spain) they will become the Populist Leader instead of having the game generate a new one.

What is the stance of populist factions against other realms, and would it possible to interact with them if you are ruler of their religion and culture?
A very illogical and frustrating situation in CK2 was to invade the Umayyads in Spain as the Kingdom of Asturias, be winning the fight against all odds, and suddenly have a visigothic catholic rebellion against the Umayyads spawn on top of your armies and destroy them. So at least, if it is not possible to interact with them, could they be not hostile towards every single entity in the world?

I completely understand what you're saying, but unfortunately the realities of our warfare system require all parties in competing wars to be hostile to each other. Otherwise you can end up in the extremely frustrating situation where as Asturias you have occupied half of the Umayyad's territory, the Catholic rebellion has occupied the other half, and neither of you can earn enough war score to actually win the war.

Can I use a hook to persuade a fellow vassal to join my faction?

Absolutely!
 
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Absolutely!
But what if you use a hook on a character to not join a faction while someone is using a hook on them to join a faction?

I can see this happening in multiplayer. Or if AI uses hooks.

"Oh no they know I committed mass murder and are having me join this faction. But this other guy knows I committed mass murder and wants me to not join this faction."
 
I completely understand what you're saying, but unfortunately the realities of our warfare system require all parties in competing wars to be hostile to each other. Otherwise you can end up in the extremely frustrating situation where as Asturias you have occupied half of the Umayyad's territory, the Catholic rebellion has occupied the other half, and neither of you can earn enough war score to actually win the war.
Have you consider allow two sides to make an Alliance as long as they don't have similar wargoals, like the Catholic rebels would want independence for the Catholic territories while for example a ruler want to take Control over a non catholic duchy. In such case maybe the two sides could make an Alliance and press both their wargoals in one Peace deal and combine their warscore.
 
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However, if an existing unlanded claimant is floating around in the character pool somewhere (for example, a displaced King of Castille if the Umayyads manage to subjugate all of Spain) they will become the Populist Leader instead of having the game generate a new one.
Excellent! I'm glad to hear that this will be the case. Definitely fits with the CK3 declared focus of making individual characters matter more :)

I'm curious, though, is there a way the game determines which character will be the leader if there are multiple possible candidates? Random? By Fame? Some other means?
 
Hmm, I might have missed something, but I couldn't see anything saying that multiple populist factions are possible. Does that mean that, if there's a populist Muslim faction around, no populist Christian faction can form (assuming you're Norse or whatever)? Or can they "replace" one another?
 
Unlike in CK2, when a civil war is declared faction members do not form a new temporary realm. While they nominally remain vassals of their liege, they will immediately stop providing taxes and levies to them, and their liege will lose access to certain powers (such as imprisonment).

So, faction member fight separately - similar AGOT Mega war system ?
 
Can new rulers join in the ongoing rebellion? Or if I keep being tyrannical towards my non-rebelling vassals during the rebellion will they just start a second rebellion?
 
But does it? Even though it's in a form of a faction now, what will prevent it from forming again and again? Will there be some kind of "exhaustion" in counties to prevent endless rebellions?

Crushing a Peasant or Populist Revolt will give all counties in the faction a substantial opinion boost of their holder for 10 years (subject to change, balance, and of course modding) which heavily disincentivizes them from creating or joining new factions. This gives you time to address whatever problems were making the counties unhappy in the first place (including converting their culture or religion to yours, if that is how you want to solve it).

Hmm, I might have missed something, but I couldn't see anything saying that multiple populist factions are possible. Does that mean that, if there's a populist Muslim faction around, no populist Christian faction can form (assuming you're Norse or whatever)? Or can they "replace" one another?

Multiple Claimant and Populist Factions can exist at a time, though the AI generally prefers to join existing ones if the faction's goals are similar enough to their own.

There can only ever be one Independence, Liberty, and Peasant Rabble Faction at a time.
 
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Can new rulers join in the ongoing rebellion? Or if I keep being tyrannical towards my non-rebelling vassals during the rebellion will they just start a second rebellion?

Second rebellion. That said, since Factions will only revolt if they think they have a good chance of beating you in battle, having two Factions revolting at once is generally a bad idea...
 
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However, if an existing unlanded claimant is floating around in the character pool somewhere (for example, a displaced King of Castille if the Umayyads manage to subjugate all of Spain) they will become the Populist Leader instead of having the game generate a new one.

This is brilliant! I can forsee lots of actual historical situations working far more logically now.



I completely understand what you're saying, but unfortunately the realities of our warfare system require all parties in competing wars to be hostile to each other. Otherwise you can end up in the extremely frustrating situation where as Asturias you have occupied half of the Umayyad's territory, the Catholic rebellion has occupied the other half, and neither of you can earn enough war score to actually win the war.

Couldn't you (not necessarily on release) do something similar to how EU4 handles this? In EU4 you can 'Support Rebels', where you send cash to rebels in a country and this makes their troops non-hostile to yours, as well as giving their revolt a boost if/when it occurs. I think that's quite plausible in the situation Kukumarro described.
 
Populist Factions are the more dangerous type of county faction and form when counties wish to be governed by a ruler of their own culture and/or religion. While Populist Factions are created by and primarily consist of counties, sympathetic vassals in your realm may also pledge loyalty to their cause. A successful Populist revolt will cause all member counties and vassals to break away and form a new realm!

While an Independence Faction causes all members split off into their own separate realms, a Populist Faction will create a single realm with all members united under one ruler. That ruler will always share the Faction’s culture and religion, and as a hero of the liberation war they will almost always be a competent commander. In addition, a successful Populist Faction will automatically usurp or create an appropriate title for their leader to hold, which can even generate new Kingdom-tier titles in certain circumstances!

So, succesfull pupulist can create always not existed or random realm, or also curretly established for example king of France hold Duchy of Normandy as secondary and normandy populist want his own, local ruler ?
 
[Can I use hooks to persuade a fellow vassal to join a faction]
Absolutely!
Nice. Can one also use a hook to get another vassal under our common liege out of a faction that I don't want him to be in?

Multiple Claimant and Populist Factions can exist at a time, though the AI generally prefers to join existing ones if the faction's goals are similar enough to their own.
So they do care about their opinion of the claimant when considering whether to join or not?
And can a liege join a vassals war to help him in his fight against a faction? So that you can defend your fellow dynasty members against unreasonable claimant factions.
And the other way around: Can (and do) vassals help their liege fighting against rebellion?
 
Until now CK2 looks more like an RPG-themed revamp of CK2 with some 3D graphics put onto it rather than a new game. I keep hearing that the big hurdles of CK2 decade old engine are going to stay. AFAIK the terrain won't ever change, while it really should over four centuries of intense settlement. An area was a virgin wood devoid of humans in 1066? Well, it would be a shame if it had to stay that way...
Factions getting at least on par with HIP? Not gonna happen-somehow it's too taxing for modern computers. So instead of reworking them , so they become meaningful and engaging, we're going to prioritise compatibility with potato PCs. Great.
Then we're supposed to get the ridiculous religion re-moulding while we don't have any dynamic to the existing ones. Unimportant stuff like the Great Schism, celibacy of the clergy, investiture of bishops, scholastics, Gallic church autonomy, inquisition, way of electing the pope, mendicant orders, flagellants.
There's a lot of stuff to be fixed in CK2 and until now the RPG part and hooks are the only two I can recall. What do we actually get from upgrading from CK2 to CK3 apart from this one aspect?
 
Will foreign powers have the ability to influence a faction or civil war? The Encourage Dissent council task in CK2 was pretty limited to a single county, and I can only give so many gifts to rebels while they stockpile it for their ransom. Or maybe have your spymaster be able to find out rebel factions and their dissent, so you have the perfect time to strike.
One famous example was how Philippe Augustus encouraged Hal and Richard's rebellions against Henry II (while Geoffrey died from an injury during a tournament on one such diplomatic missions), I disliked watching independence rebellions get put down by a rival that I'd like to see humbled.