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CK3 Dev Diary #18 - Men-at-Arms, Mercenaries and CBs

Hello everyone, and welcome back!

This week we’ll be talking about a lot of additional details surrounding warfare. Just a few bits and pieces that have changed since CK2.

Casus Belli
One thing that is as it ever was, however, is that you need a Casus Belli to go to war, and that CB determines what happens when the war is won (or lost!). The most common ones are for pressing claims, as you’re familiar with from CK2. In different situations there will be a different options, of course, and some are even unlocked in special ways, such as the ones unlocked by perks, as shown off in the Diplomacy Lifestyle dev diary.
Declare war view.PNG


War Declaration Cost
One thing that has changed a little is the fact that different CBs come with different “declaration costs” attached to them. This is usually Prestige or Piety, depending on whether you are starting a war against a fellow believer or someone from another faith. On the other hand, we don’t want to keep you from taking advantage of a great opportunity just because you’re missing 10 Prestige at a crucial moment, so the costs are optional, in a sense.

You can declare a war without paying its cost, at which point you’ll instead pay something bigger, such as a Level of Fame or Devotion.

Levels of Fame/Devotion brings their own benefits, so ideally you want to avoid this, but it’s not as big a problem as - say - truce breaking. It’s not going to cripple your play, just set you back a little bit in exchange for getting to raise your armies and take some new titles while your enemy is weak. This is also one of the ways that Piety and Prestige gain has become more valuable than it was in CK2. You want to use it for more stuff, and it’s always useful to have lying around!

Men-at-Arms
We have talked about armies before, where we talked about the difference between your levies and your Men-at-Arms. Your levies are your unwashed masses, indistinguishable peasants more than willing to die for the few measly pieces of gold you throw their way. Men-at-Arms, on the other hand, are more specialist troops, and the component that gives you more control over precisely how you win your wars. They are in many ways your elite troops, ready to march through mountains and marshes for you.
MaA view.PNG


You have a maximum number of Men-at-Arms regiment slots for your army, and in addition they have an upkeep cost. It’s small when they’re unraised, but the moment you have them stand up to go to war, they’ll demand a lot more pay!

Even though you can max out your MaA slots, there are other ways you can expand your army. Each MaA regiment can be increased a set number of times, to field even more of your deadly warriors. This will naturally increase their maintenance cost as well (both raised and unraised) so think twice before hiring twice as many soldiers!

There are many different types of MaA regiments, and what their type is determines a number of things, such as what terrain they are good at fighting in, and what kind of MaA Regiments they are good at countering, or get countered by. Over time, you may also be able to acquire new types of MaA Regiments. This means that the bulk of armies are likely to be quite different if you start in 867 compared to when you reach the end of the game.
Create MaA view.PNG


MaAs also include siege engines, which is one of the easiest way of speeding up your land grabs. However, siege weapons are almost useless in regular combat, and taking them uses up one of your MaA slots, so it’s a decision that has to be carefully thought through.
MaA siege engine.PNG


In addition to a standard slate of MaA types, different cultures gain access to different unique MaAs. These will vary greatly across the world, but are generally specialised in the conditions of warfare that’s typical for the culture in question.
Camel Riders.PNG


You will also be able to look at battle reports to get an indication of what kind of impact specific types of MaAs have on your battles. This can let you figure out whether your strategies are paying off, or whether it’s finally time to get some Pikemen to counter the Light Cavalry that your rival is always fielding.

So to sum it all up, Men-at-Arms are great for countering specific troop types, adjusting to specific types of terrain, and directly bolstering the number of soldiers in your army! Sometimes, strategising and countering isn’t enough, however, and that’s where Mercenaries come in!

Mercenaries
Mercenaries are familiar to any CK2 player, of course, but they have changed a little now.

First of all, you no longer pay monthly maintenance for them. Instead you pay their cost for three years up front, and then they’re yours for that time to use as you see fit. They’ll stay with you through thick and thin (although mostly the thick of battle).
Mercenary company screenshot 3.PNG


Once the three years are almost up, you’ll receive an alert warning you that the Mercenaries are about to pack up and get on their way! You’ll then have the opportunity to pay them for another three years of service. This also means that they aren't going to betray you the second you go into debt, which I know will sadden a lot of you, but this new system makes it a lot easier to keep track of what you have and don't have during war.

So Mercenaries are an expensive way of doing warfare, but sometimes it’s the only way you’ll survive. However, in order to find a Mercenary Company that fits you in both size and shape, we have a new system for generating them to make sure there's always a wide range to choose from.
Mercenary Hire view 2.PNG


Each culture generates between one and three Mercenary companies depending on the number of counties of that culture, with each additional company being bigger and more expensive than the previous one. They will also pick a county of their culture to keep as their headquarters, and will be available to be hired by anyone within a certain range of that county.

With each culture generating Mercenaries, their names and coats of arms are either picked from a generated list of names specific to their culture so that you can get historical or particularly flavourful companies in there.

On top of everything else, Mercenary companies come with one or more specific Men-at-Arms types, which means that you may want to consider not only which company is the biggest one you can afford, but which is the best suited for the war you’re about to fight.

This should all offer you a lot of varied strategies for how you go about your wars. Is it worth saving up for the CB cost or mercenary-Gold ahead of time? What Men-at-Arms should you be using against your ancestral enemies? Who would win in a fight between the the White Company and the Company of the Hat??

You’ll just have to wait until release to see...
 
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You're right there, the only thing stopping you from conquering everything is getting bored.

I'm honestly not sure how many people stay in a low position for long... I watch a ton of lets plays and everyone goes for the highest position they can or end up there pretty fast. I honestly wish paradox tracked which map modes are used the most often and released stats because that'd be interesting to see.
Alot of the mechanics work best when you are weak, like intrigue, Alliances and diplomacy in general. If you are powerful Everything just become a sideshow and the christian religions become pretty useless due to their limitations on conquest compared to stuff like islam.

Obviously CK3 should make it interesting to be powerful but also interesting to be weak. Obviously this is a problem seen in the other paradox games as well.
 
You can declare a war without paying its cost, at which point you’ll instead pay something bigger, such as a Level of Fame or Devotion.

I don't know how often this will come up, given how readily available Prestige and Piety typically are, but I like the idea of having to balance whether or not you should pull the trigger on pressing your weak claim before the current holder comes of age versus losing a level of fame, which I interpret as basically everyone being disgusted with your dishonorable power-snatching.

Even though you can max out your MaA slots, there are other ways you can expand your army. Each MaA regiment can be increased a set number of times, to field even more of your deadly warriors.

I already liked the updates from retinues to MaA, and this adds a neat balance of troop variety vs. specializing in a particular strategy. Your expanded regiment of heavy cavalry might wreak havoc out on the open plains, but that won't help if you're trying to assault a mountain kingdom, so maybe you should have spent the gold on some archers. I can see this having a real impact on who/where you decide to exert your expansion efforts and how you invest in warfare. I pretty much only ever get my cultural unit for retinues in CK2 - there's a lot more to consider with this system.

There are many different types of MaA regiments, and what their type is determines a number of things, such as what terrain they are good at fighting in, and what kind of MaA Regiments they are good at countering, or get countered by. Over time, you may also be able to acquire new types of MaA Regiments. This means that the bulk of armies are likely to be quite different if you start in 867 compared to when you reach the end of the game.

The evolution of army composition is a great new aspect. Instead of simply bigger stacks (although I imagine the stacks will get bigger), your late-game army will be more diversified and specialized than in the early game.

One thing that's really bumping me though is the use of onagers as the example siege weapons. Unless I'm mistaken, onagers were mostly replaced by mangonels in most of Europe by the 8th century, which is well before the earlier start date. I would expect mangonels to be the standard siege weapons until the 12th or 13th century (or their equivalents tech-wise) when they might be replaced by trebuchets. Onagers were just not widespread in this time period as far as I'm aware. Could be wrong though!

First of all, you no longer pay monthly maintenance for them. Instead you pay their cost for three years up front, and then they’re yours for that time to use as you see fit. They’ll stay with you through thick and thin (although mostly the thick of battle).

Once the three years are almost up, you’ll receive an alert warning you that the Mercenaries are about to pack up and get on their way! You’ll then have the opportunity to pay them for another three years of service.

One of those changes I didn't know I wanted until I saw it. Paying up front is a really good change. Although it maintains the need to wrap up the war quickly before your mercenaries charge you again or ditch you, you are no longer simply hemorrhaging gold for the entirety of the conflict. I do wish you could hire them for a variable length of time, maybe a minimum of two years and a maximum of five, which would allow you to essentially bet on how long you think you'll have the war wrapped up, and a longer contract could come at a somewhat reduced price per year.

Each culture generates between one and three Mercenary companies depending on the number of counties of that culture, with each additional company being bigger and more expensive than the previous one. They will also pick a county of their culture to keep as their headquarters, and will be available to be hired by anyone within a certain range of that county.

A cool way of adding some immersion, watching as more dominant cultures produce more powerful warriors for hire

It's the other way around, the war leader's opinion of them will improve depending on their contribution. Jumping in to help someone even makes it more likely that they become your friend!

This is incredible. Such a massive and important change. I am terrible about promising my allies I'll help them and then hanging them out to dry because there's literally no consequences. Having your actual performance in battle and commitment to the war effort affect how your allies feel about you is a fabulous change for both the roleplaying and strategic aspects. If I save my liege from certain doom, maybe he'll agree to lower my vassal obligations.
 
You're right there, the only thing stopping you from conquering everything is getting bored.

I'm honestly not sure how many people stay in a low position for long... I watch a ton of lets plays and everyone goes for the highest position they can or end up there pretty fast. I honestly wish paradox tracked which map modes are used the most often and released stats because that'd be interesting to see.
I tried to stay a lowly count in the HRE for some time a few times, but it always ended with the AI giving me a duchy and then electing me as emperor. Once I unwillingly went from count to emperor with my starting character...
 
I tried to stay a lowly count in the HRE for some time a few times, but it always ended with the AI giving me a duchy and then electing me as emperor. Once I unwillingly went from count to emperor with my starting character...
It is a good question why the ai would even give you a duchy to begin with, I'm not really sure why you would want duke vasslas other than keep the vassal Count down and sometimes for de jure duchy claims. Well you also gain prestige from creating duchies.

Well maybe the exception is if you want a merchant republic or try to get the pope but making a normal feudal vassal a duke don't make that much sense I think, you gain less tax and levies I think stay about the same.
 
You're right there, the only thing stopping you from conquering everything is getting bored.

I'm honestly not sure how many people stay in a low position for long... I watch a ton of lets plays and everyone goes for the highest position they can or end up there pretty fast. I honestly wish paradox tracked which map modes are used the most often and released stats because that'd be interesting to see.

Well I can say that CK2, with each update and expansion, became more and more interesting for me to play as a character not focused on war. Way of Life, Societies, Great Works, and of course general court intrigue, the "marriage game" and relationship with vassals help in mantaining me active during peace-time. Still though, I've seen some people complain about the fact that there's still not enough to do during peace-time, or that societies were generally unbalanced, with Satanists and Hermetics getting most of the attention instead of the other orders, and I generally think that in this case more things to do is always better, so I have faith CK3 will improve on that.

Cadet branches go a long way, I think, in having a dynastic focused game, where you can put your dynasty on the throne of several realms without going to war with them. And after that, I can even see a clash between different houses of the same dynasty for supremacy. Other than that, we need a lot of events, decisions, intrigue, stewardship and diplomacy options to keep ourselves occupied in peace-time. Also add some duel/sparring/tournament/hunting event chains for more martial-focused characters and of course alchemical/theological/medicinal/cultural/historical events for learning-focused characters.

Oh, and I almost always play on the political map view, as I think do 99% of the people in all Paradox games :D. The exceptions are of course when I go for either religion or dynasty focused games.
 
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I find expansion to be the weak Point of paradox games since it have a inverse difficulty curve, the more you expand the easier the game gets and also the easier it get to expand even more. Hopefully they will make the large empires interesting for once but I'm not sure given how it is in the other paradox games.

I think it would be alot more fun if it was a challenge to keep Control over a large empire for long and often you eventually end down at a lower rank again.
 
Once the three years are almost up, you’ll receive an alert warning you that the Mercenaries are about to pack up and get on their way! You’ll then have the opportunity to pay them for another three years of service. This also means that they aren't going to betray you the second you go into debt, which I know will sadden a lot of you, but this new system makes it a lot easier to keep track of what you have and don't have during war.
You say that the mercs won't betray you the second you go into debt, does this imply that they might eventually betray you? I really hope there is some mechanic that would allow mercs to carve out their own countries, if not at release, then planned to be in some later patch. (One of my favorite games to date was one where I looked up from my Venetian Republic, and saw that the Irish Band had conquered most of France while I wasn't looking. The impression I've gotten of CK3 is that a good deal of that sort of emergent gameplay/stories are going the way of the Dodo, in favor of more predetermined stuff, like the mission tree-esqe character growth or this "mercs can't betray you" thing.)
 
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You say that the mercs won't betray you the second you go into debt, does this imply that they might eventually betray you? I really hope there is some mechanic that would allow mercs to carve out their own countries, if not at release, then planned to be in some later patch. (One of my favorite games to date was one where I looked up from my Venetian Republic, and saw that the Irish Band had conquered most of France while I wasn't looking. The impression I've gotten of CK3 is that a good deal of that sort of emergent gameplay/stories are going the way of the Dodo, in favor of more predetermined stuff, like the mission tree-esqe character growth or this "mercs can't betray you" thing.)
You have paid them 3 years in advance so it don't make sense that they should betray you because you are in debt because you have already paid them, but once those 3 years are over they will demand a new payment or leave you.
 
I do kind of hope there can be repercussions for having mercenaries, in order to have some level of risk involved, since mercenaries could often cause problems. In some ways I like the new system, and I never liked mercenaries conquering countries (ok, maybe it was funny to see mercenaries conquer Aquitaine or something once or twice, but should it really be a real possibility?) but at least make them able to raid you or something if your finances get bad. maybe the payment could be a commitment to pay them a set amount at either 3 years after hiring them or once disbanded rather than paying up front, but you'd still have the flat amount required to pay them
 
I do kind of hope there can be repercussions for having mercenaries, in order to have some level of risk involved, since mercenaries could often cause problems.
They are very expensive to begin with which already have big repercussions since you could have spent that Money on long term development. Also nerfing mercenaries will mostly nerf weaker realms rather than strong ones which can field alot of levy and men at arms and if anything small realms need buffs rather than nerfs. So I would be careful with making mercenaries worse, since it could have negative consequences for the game.
 
They are very expensive to begin with which already have big repercussions since you could have spent that Money on long term development. Also nerfing mercenaries will mostly nerf weaker realms rather than strong ones which can field alot of levy and men at arms and if anything small realms need buffs rather than nerfs. So I would be careful with making mercenaries worse, since it could have negative consequences for the game.
well yeah there's a cost, but they've removed any risk of getting them besides the cost, which I think is too much
 
Maybe depending on the captains personality, the mercenaries have an event where when you are currently loosing battles and the war, they offer the other side to switch sides for a payment. Before switching sides they will then ask you to pay more than your enemy if you wish to keep them.
But that might be a little bit too unpredictable...
 
But that might be a little bit too unpredictable...
Yes it would, I think it is best to keep the mercenaries as they are described in the DD, adding random factors and such which could lose you the war due to being unlucky is going to be more irritating than fun.
 
(ok, maybe it was funny to see mercenaries conquer Aquitaine or something once or twice, but should it really be a real possibility?)
One name for you: Roussel de Bailleul. A Norman mercenary who conquered a fair bit of Anatolia from the Byzantines. And that's just an example from off the top of my head. I'd guess with fair confidence that he was not the only one to go rogue and establish a (brief) state.
 
One name for you: Roussel de Bailleul. A Norman mercenary who conquered a fair bit of Anatolia from the Byzantines. And that's just an example from off the top of my head. I'd guess with fair confidence that he was not the only one to go rogue and establish a (brief) state.
I'm not totally against mercenary conquests I guess, but them conquering kingdoms wholesale is a little absurd. If they take a chunk of land as a fiefdom I don't mind that, like let's say they defeat Aquitaine and say "we're taking part of Poitou as repayment" and they establish a little statelet, I don't mind that. But taking the whole kingdom and it being named after the mercenary company is a little dumb; it should just, in that case, be the Duchy of Poitou (or maybe a different kind of government for just this case?) led by the captain of the company, maybe he takes the company as a vassal or something like that to add some flavor. It could be more interesting that way than how it worked in CK2, I think. I really don't want to see the whole HRE conquered by some tiny mercenary company just because the AI is stupid
 
Men-at-Arms look great. No more pre-defined templates to fill the ranks and you can have huge number of them if your funds allow. They no longer are the standing army that can do preemptive strike on demoralized enemy armies at the border. Retinues or Nomad Hordes in CK2 are way too powerful.

Nice change to mercenaries, but without any risk of them betraying you they seem a bit too good to be true. What are those tilted squares next to the troop numbers? Bottom one is red and some of the icons are bigger too.
 
Alemanic guard.... does this mean we have broken up the German culture blob? Yesses!
Also, as each company has a headquarters, does it act as a building?
If it's county specific, if someone conquers the county, I imagine that their numbers will shrink, right.

I also believe it would make sense for the owner of the county or his liege to get a discount for hiring the mercenary company
Interesting, I overlooked this on the screenshot - I think we will get a few non culture specific Merc companies and so it could be one, but, if you're right then that means German will no longer be a single monolith culture which is great. Hopefully Saxon sticks around after 1066 then, as it should. We should see some relations hits between Germans in the south and Saxons in the north!