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CK3 Dev Diary #18 - Men-at-Arms, Mercenaries and CBs

Hello everyone, and welcome back!

This week we’ll be talking about a lot of additional details surrounding warfare. Just a few bits and pieces that have changed since CK2.

Casus Belli
One thing that is as it ever was, however, is that you need a Casus Belli to go to war, and that CB determines what happens when the war is won (or lost!). The most common ones are for pressing claims, as you’re familiar with from CK2. In different situations there will be a different options, of course, and some are even unlocked in special ways, such as the ones unlocked by perks, as shown off in the Diplomacy Lifestyle dev diary.
Declare war view.PNG


War Declaration Cost
One thing that has changed a little is the fact that different CBs come with different “declaration costs” attached to them. This is usually Prestige or Piety, depending on whether you are starting a war against a fellow believer or someone from another faith. On the other hand, we don’t want to keep you from taking advantage of a great opportunity just because you’re missing 10 Prestige at a crucial moment, so the costs are optional, in a sense.

You can declare a war without paying its cost, at which point you’ll instead pay something bigger, such as a Level of Fame or Devotion.

Levels of Fame/Devotion brings their own benefits, so ideally you want to avoid this, but it’s not as big a problem as - say - truce breaking. It’s not going to cripple your play, just set you back a little bit in exchange for getting to raise your armies and take some new titles while your enemy is weak. This is also one of the ways that Piety and Prestige gain has become more valuable than it was in CK2. You want to use it for more stuff, and it’s always useful to have lying around!

Men-at-Arms
We have talked about armies before, where we talked about the difference between your levies and your Men-at-Arms. Your levies are your unwashed masses, indistinguishable peasants more than willing to die for the few measly pieces of gold you throw their way. Men-at-Arms, on the other hand, are more specialist troops, and the component that gives you more control over precisely how you win your wars. They are in many ways your elite troops, ready to march through mountains and marshes for you.
MaA view.PNG


You have a maximum number of Men-at-Arms regiment slots for your army, and in addition they have an upkeep cost. It’s small when they’re unraised, but the moment you have them stand up to go to war, they’ll demand a lot more pay!

Even though you can max out your MaA slots, there are other ways you can expand your army. Each MaA regiment can be increased a set number of times, to field even more of your deadly warriors. This will naturally increase their maintenance cost as well (both raised and unraised) so think twice before hiring twice as many soldiers!

There are many different types of MaA regiments, and what their type is determines a number of things, such as what terrain they are good at fighting in, and what kind of MaA Regiments they are good at countering, or get countered by. Over time, you may also be able to acquire new types of MaA Regiments. This means that the bulk of armies are likely to be quite different if you start in 867 compared to when you reach the end of the game.
Create MaA view.PNG


MaAs also include siege engines, which is one of the easiest way of speeding up your land grabs. However, siege weapons are almost useless in regular combat, and taking them uses up one of your MaA slots, so it’s a decision that has to be carefully thought through.
MaA siege engine.PNG


In addition to a standard slate of MaA types, different cultures gain access to different unique MaAs. These will vary greatly across the world, but are generally specialised in the conditions of warfare that’s typical for the culture in question.
Camel Riders.PNG


You will also be able to look at battle reports to get an indication of what kind of impact specific types of MaAs have on your battles. This can let you figure out whether your strategies are paying off, or whether it’s finally time to get some Pikemen to counter the Light Cavalry that your rival is always fielding.

So to sum it all up, Men-at-Arms are great for countering specific troop types, adjusting to specific types of terrain, and directly bolstering the number of soldiers in your army! Sometimes, strategising and countering isn’t enough, however, and that’s where Mercenaries come in!

Mercenaries
Mercenaries are familiar to any CK2 player, of course, but they have changed a little now.

First of all, you no longer pay monthly maintenance for them. Instead you pay their cost for three years up front, and then they’re yours for that time to use as you see fit. They’ll stay with you through thick and thin (although mostly the thick of battle).
Mercenary company screenshot 3.PNG


Once the three years are almost up, you’ll receive an alert warning you that the Mercenaries are about to pack up and get on their way! You’ll then have the opportunity to pay them for another three years of service. This also means that they aren't going to betray you the second you go into debt, which I know will sadden a lot of you, but this new system makes it a lot easier to keep track of what you have and don't have during war.

So Mercenaries are an expensive way of doing warfare, but sometimes it’s the only way you’ll survive. However, in order to find a Mercenary Company that fits you in both size and shape, we have a new system for generating them to make sure there's always a wide range to choose from.
Mercenary Hire view 2.PNG


Each culture generates between one and three Mercenary companies depending on the number of counties of that culture, with each additional company being bigger and more expensive than the previous one. They will also pick a county of their culture to keep as their headquarters, and will be available to be hired by anyone within a certain range of that county.

With each culture generating Mercenaries, their names and coats of arms are either picked from a generated list of names specific to their culture so that you can get historical or particularly flavourful companies in there.

On top of everything else, Mercenary companies come with one or more specific Men-at-Arms types, which means that you may want to consider not only which company is the biggest one you can afford, but which is the best suited for the war you’re about to fight.

This should all offer you a lot of varied strategies for how you go about your wars. Is it worth saving up for the CB cost or mercenary-Gold ahead of time? What Men-at-Arms should you be using against your ancestral enemies? Who would win in a fight between the the White Company and the Company of the Hat??

You’ll just have to wait until release to see...
 
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I don't think that would work since men at arms basically work the same way as retinues, what buildings could give in such case is allowing mroe men at arms regiments. Some buildings do make them better, like a siege workshop make all your siege Equipment better.

If they are moved they would likely be disassembled into parts.

I don't think cannons could be made at the spot which required large manufactory complex and was extremely expensive to make, thus only available to the richest.

Not always, during the Siege of Shkodra the besieging army reportedly cast 10 very large guns onsite. This is dramatized in Ismail Kadare's novel "The Siege". And there was still a large amount of onsite engineering that had to be done in support of guns when they were brought in from elsewhere.
 
So, from the looks of the Casus Belli screen, it seems that wars will resolve themselves similarly or identically to CK2? If you're declaring for a specific claim, are you still only able to take that one claim, despite sieging out the whole country? If so, are there any other CBs that are more flexible, akin to EUIV's system for peace deals?

The rigid inflexibility of CK2's peace deals was something I was hoping would change here so I hope that's not the case.

It doesn't seem there will be better peace negotiation system, so in my opinion there should be a way to add secondary war goals.
At least the defender should be able to set his own wargoal, ie. press their own claims or weaken the attacker by forcing indepence for non de-jure, different culture vassals. It sucks when you succesfully defend against a big realm and all you get is some prestige.
 
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Most of this sounds rather nice, although it doesn't seem to be all that different from CK2 - although being able to increase the size of your "retinues" if you have the money but lack slots certainly sounds interesting. I'm a bit on the fence on the issue of needing Prestige and/or Piety to declare war, and losing levels of Fame or Devotion instead. Wouldn't it be simpler to just allow people to go negative, and have them suffer the effects of negative Prestige/Piety instead?

Also, when it comes to pressing claims - can you press various different claims (say a normal claim and a de jure claim) at the same time? It also seems you need to decide on the claims pressed when you start the war, can you add additional claims later (like in Vicky 2) or have claim "negotiations" where you can simultaneously enforce and drop claims, like in CK1?
 
LMAO to ppl who says this is a step back from CK2 while CK2 system is less complex
Not exactly true. The problem with the CK2 system is that when you actually learn how combat works in CK2, it's too complex, and as a result too chaotic to predict much more than large army with better generals usually wins. It's kind of a neat example of chaos theory at work in a game.

Tactics were a really cool idea, except that you, as a player, have very little control over how they work. The people with the patience to optimize tactics in CK2 amaze me.
 
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What's the little diamonds, the "loaded bases" next to the number of soldiers in the Mercenary Companies? View attachment 555136
Quality of the army.

index.php

Not exactly true. The problem with the CK2 system is that it is when you actually learn how combat works in CK2, it's too complex, and as a result too chaotic to predict much more than large army with better generals usually wins. It's kind of a neat example of chaos theory at work in a game.

Tactics were a really cool idea, except that you, as a player, have very little control over how they work. The people with the patience to optimize tactics in CK2 amaze me.
You basically need to read the wiki to understand the tactic system and to me it don't make the game more strategic, since all it is about is putting together a specific amount of each troop type, sometimes get a commander of the right Culture and with some luck you destroy your enemy.
 
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Thanks, but I was hoping for a deeper explanation (from a dev).
For the record I did notice it last week; I quoted the picture, after all
I'm pretty sure it simply try to help people to know how good the average Soldier is in the army so a smaller army that is of higher quality will still maybe be stronger than a larger army of lower quality. Like a levy army will be bottom quality, while an army which is half levy, half men at arms will be considered of much higher quality.
 
Byzantium mechanics when? Pay attention to the community reaction.
 
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Byzantium mechanics when? Pay attention to the community reaction.
Pay attention to the dev reaction. They don't have the resources to do it at launch, they know the viceroyalty system was incorrect, and implementing it in CK3 would be putting a band aid over the problem. When they have the time and resources to do it right, Byzantine mechanics will happen.
 
Byzantium mechanics when? Pay attention to the community reaction.
They have already said this:
Byzantium is its own beast, and requires a lot of thought to do right. The CK2 solution was not optimal, and we didn't want to repeat what we did there. Just slapping an elective variant on it and renaming its government to 'Imperial' doesn't do it justice, we would want actual mechanics to represent the intricacies of byzantine politics. All I can say at this point is that whenever in the future we choose to deal with Byzantium we will make sure that we do it well.
 
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Pay attention to the dev reaction. They don't have the resources to do it at launch, they know the viceroyalty system was incorrect, and implementing it in CK3 would be putting a band aid over the problem. When they have the time and resources to do it right, Byzantine mechanics will happen.

Yeah, and they'll be behind a pay wall, and limited by the design of the feudal system.
 
Will there be any advantage to having separate armies or will it come down to doomstacks?
It is a good question, combat width should limit the effectivness of doomstack and there are supply limits per barony. Another reason to split your armies would be to cover more chockpoints which probably give a significant advantage for the defender and a good army can maybe hold out for reinforcements. Also Another reason to use several armies is to cover more ground.
 
I'm curious: why did you go with this approach instead of the I:R one where the mercs are physically stationed somewhere?
Likely they don't want armies everywhere and also it fit better the CK3 system of not having standing armies.

I suspect you can choose which claim to press with the Icon just above the Enforce your Demands text, each shield probably represent one county and maybe you can select multiple at the same time to press several claims.
index.php

I'm a bit on the fence on the issue of needing Prestige and/or Piety to declare war, and losing levels of Fame or Devotion instead. Wouldn't it be simpler to just allow people to go negative, and have them suffer the effects of negative Prestige/Piety instead?
I doubt you can get negative piety and prestige, also they don't work like they do in CK2 as they are now just currency while fame and devotion have taken over the role of the oppinion boost that piety and prestige gave in CK2 and they also do other stuff as well.
 
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Why would mercenaries have knights?
Knight is just a term for a character that fights, maybe it is not the best term for that but Obviously that also mean suggesting Another term.

Levies and Men-at-Arms are not the only soldiers available to you. As a ruler, you have a number of Knights at your disposal. These are the vassals and courtiers of your realm with a high Prowess, which is the equivalent to Combat Rating in CK2, and represents how good a character is at fighting and is used when they participate in battles. You can normally only have a few dedicated Knights, but there are various ways to increase the number of Knights, as well as their effectiveness.
 
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