• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

CK3 Dev Diary #17 - Governments, Vassal Management, Laws, and Raiding

Good afternoon, everyone. I’m Magne “Meneth” Skjæran. You might know me from the CK2 dev diaries or the Paradox Wikis, but for the last couple of years I’ve been working on CK3 as a programmer. Today we’re going to cover a number of topics closely related to government types: governments themselves, vassal management, laws, and raiding.

Let's start off with a familiar concept from CK2: governments. For the player, we have three playable governments: Feudal, Tribal, and Clan, which each have some significant differences in how they play.

The Feudal government type is based on European feudalism, and is heavily based around the idea of obligations: you owe service to your liege, and your liege owes you protection in return. It is the most common government form in the game. Feudal realms play pretty similarly to CK2, focusing on claims and inheritance more so than the other government forms.

A new addition in CK3 is Feudal Contracts. Every feudal vassal (except barons) has an individual contract with you, rather than obligations being set realm-wide. These contracts have three levels; Low, Medium, and High, with Medium being the default. High will provide more levies and tax at the cost of an opinion hit, while Low provides less but improves opinion. Higher levels are usually better (though perhaps not if you’re at risk of your vassals revolting), but cannot be imposed unilaterally.

You’ll need to have a hook on your vassal in order to increase their obligations unless you’re fine with all your vassals considering you a tyrant, but you can always lower them. As a result this means you can significantly increase your power if you’re able to obtain hooks on your vassals; perhaps a bit of judicious blackmail might be in order?

Feudal Contract.png

[Modifying a Feudal Contract]

Furthermore we have the Clan government form. This government is the rough equivalent of the Iqta government in CK2, though in CK3 it does have a more Feudal bent than it did previously.

The Clan government type is used by most Muslim realms. This government puts more emphasis on the family rather than the realm, with most vassals being members of your dynasty. Obligations are heavily based on opinion rather than being contractual, with happy vassals providing significantly more taxes and levies than unhappy ones. A happy family is a powerful family.

Clan governments also have access to the Clan Invasion casus belli, which can be used once in a lifetime at the highest level of Fame to invade a kingdom, providing a powerful boon for a well-established clan ruler.

Finally we have Tribal realms. Much like in CK2 these have their own Tribal holding type, providing more troops but less tax. Additionally, most tribals are able to go on raids, which you can read more about below. Tribal realms are unaffected by development, and cause non-tribal realms to have lower supply limits in their lands, making them a tougher nut to crack, but reducing their influence as the years drag on. Tribal realms also pay for men at arms using prestige rather than gold, allowing smaller realms to punch above their weight.

Tribal rulers base their obligations on levels of Fame rather than on contracts or opinion; the more famous your ruler is, the more troops and money your vassals will be willing to provide for your pursuits.

Finally, Tribal rulers have a once-in-a-lifetime Subjugation casus belli, allowing them to forcibly vassalize an entire realm.

As the game goes on, you can eventually reform out of Tribalism, becoming a Clan or Feudal realm instead.

Vassal Overview.png

[The vassal management tab]

To get an easy overview of your realm, we in CK3 have the Realm screen. Let’s start with the Vassals tab of this screen where all your vassals are shown. This gives you a clear overview of where your levies and taxes come from, who might be a threat to you, and allows you to renegotiate feudal contracts.

This is also where you change your crown authority (or tribal authority), which I’ll talk more about later in this dev diary.

Lastly, the screen shows your Powerful Vassals. Much like in CK2’s Conclave DLC, your realm will have some powerful vassals; these expect to be seated on the council, and will make their displeasure known if that is not the case.

Domain overview.png

[The Domain Tab]

Then we have the Domain tab. This lets you easily inspect your domain, showing where you’re earning money and levies, and where you can build more buildings. It also shows the level of development and control in the counties you personally hold, letting you easily tell where you can make improvements.

Finally we have the Succession tab. Due to being a bit of a work in progress, I’m afraid I can’t show you a picture of it right now. Here you can change your succession laws, see your heir(s), and check what titles, if any, you will lose when you die. If you hold any elective titles, you’ll be able to easily get to the election screen from here.

Now with all these mentions of laws, let's go through what laws exist. We’ve trimmed down the number of laws from CK2 as much of what used to be law is handled on a more individual level now, but some still remains.

Like in CK2, we have crown authority for Feudal and Clan realms, and tribal authority for Tribal realms. Higher levels of authority unlock mechanics like imprisonment (for tribals, the others start with it), title revocation, restrictions on internal wars, and heir designation. However, increasing these levels will make your vassals unhappy. Tribal authority is significantly less powerful than crown authority, representing how Tribal governments over time gradually got supplanted by Feudal and Clan governments.

Succession Laws.png

[Changing succession law]

Then there’s succession laws. To no one’s surprise, Gavelkind is making a return, though we’ve renamed it to Partition to make it more obvious what it actually means. This is the default succession form of most realms in both 867 and 1066.

For added fun, there’s now three variants of Partition. We’ve got regular Partition, which functions like Gavelkind in CK2; your realm gets split roughly equally between your heirs, and any heirs that end up a lower tier than your primary heir becomes a vassal.

However, many realms start with a worse form, especially in 867. This is Confederate Partition, which will also create titles of your primary title’s tier if possible. So if you as Norway have conquered all of Sweden but destroyed the kingdom itself, it will get recreated on your death so that your second heir becomes an independent ruler. Tribals are typically locked to this succession type, with some exceptions.

Finally we have an improved version of Partition: High Partition. Under High Partition your primary heir will always get at least half your titles, so it doesn’t matter if you’ve got 2 or 10 kids; your primary heir will get the same amount of land.

We’ve also done a lot of tweaks to the internal logic of who gets what titles, which tends to lead to far nicer splits than in CK2; border gore will of course still happen, but to a lesser degree than before.

Then we have the other succession forms. There’s Oldest Child Succession (replacing Primogeniture), Youngest Child Succession (replacing Ultimogeniture), and House Seniority. A notable difference from CK2’s Seniority Succession is that under House Seniority, the oldest eligible member of your house inherits, not of your entire dynasty.

We also have a number of variants on elective succession, ranging from Feudal Elective, to Princely Elective (HRE succession), and a handful of cultural variants. Each of these have different restrictions on who can vote, who can be elected, and how the AI will select who to vote for.

Additionally, we’ve got a full suite of gender laws, corresponding to the gender laws in CK2. These are: Male Only, Male Preference, Equal, Female Preference, and Female Only.

Finally, we have raiding. If you’re a Norwegian like me, sometimes you feel your Viking blood coursing through your veins, the noise of it drowning out everything else. Times like this, there’s only one solution: go on a raid.

Fans of Pagan gameplay in CK2 will be glad to hear that not only have we implemented raiding in CK3 as well, we’ve made some improvements to it to make it more fun to play with, and less unfun to be on the receiving end of.

The core system is very similar to CK2. If you’re a Pagan or Tribal ruler, you have the ability to raid other rulers’ lands. To do so you raise a raid army, and march or sail over to your target. Only the Norse can raid across sea; other raid armies will simply be unable to embark.

Rally Point.png

[Raising a raid army]

Once at your target your army will start looting the barony they’re in. This is a pretty quick process, but during it your army will be unable to move, preventing you from running away from any counter-raiding force. This change makes it a lot simpler to deal with raiders if you’ve got enough men and can raise them quickly enough, as the AI won’t just immediately run away.

Raid Lindisfarne.png

[A raid in progress]

While in CK2 raiding was done on a county level, in CK3 it is on a barony level. Another difference is that in CK3 raiding no longer uses the siege mechanics directly, but rather a similar system where things like siege engines do not have an impact since you’re raiding the countryside, not a heavily fortified castle.

Another significant change is that if you beat a raid army, you receive all the gold they’re carrying. This means that even if you cannot respond instantly to a raid, it is still very much worth it to beat up the raiders. Like in CK2, you also become immune to raiding by that enemy for several years.

Just like in CK2, a raid army is limited in how much loot it can carry based on the army size. Loot is deposited once the army is back in friendly lands, after which you might either disband or go raiding once more.

On the quality of life side, we now show on the map what provinces have already been raided when you have a raid army selected. This makes it easy to see what places to avoid. Hovering over a province will also tell you how much loot raiding it would provide.

Raid.png

[Northern England in its natural state]

That’s all for today, folks. Tune in next week to learn more about how war functions in Crusader Kings 3.
 
Last edited:
  • 18Like
  • 9
  • 6
Reactions:
Looks quite promising, an excellent Dev Diary! I just have one question:

The core system is very similar to CK2. If you’re a Pagan or Tribal ruler, you have the ability to raid other rulers’ lands. To do so you raise a raid army, and march or sail over to your target. Only the Norse can raid across sea; other raid armies will simply be unable to embark.

Does this mean that e.g. Barbary state raids won't be possible at launch? Because, while they reached peak prominence in the latter half of the 2nd millenium, Barbary raids happened as early as the 8th century and i'd be somewhat disappointed if they weren't in. Are there plans to add oversea raiding for such groups at a later date/as part of a future DLC?
 
Looks quite promising, an excellent Dev Diary! I just have one question:



Does this mean that e.g. Barbary state raids won't be possible at launch? Because, while they reached peak prominence in the latter half of the 2nd millenium, Barbary raids happened as early as the 8th century and i'd be somewhat disappointed if they weren't in. Are there plans to add oversea raiding for such groups at a later date/as part of a future DLC?
There are also the Estonian pirates of Saarema, and the Bawarij in the Indian Ocean.

I imagine they want to cut down on random sea raiders, and don’t expect them to know every niche exception. But it would be nice if they were accounted for.
 
What's up with the bland UI? I hope it's improved on later. It's looking like a mobile game and kinda disappointing.
 
The core system is very similar to CK2. If you’re a Pagan or Tribal ruler, you have the ability to raid other rulers’ lands. To do so you raise a raid army, and march or sail over to your target. Only the Norse can raid across sea; other raid armies will simply be unable to embark.
Speaking about raiding and embarking, would you'd be able to embark if your lands are adjacent to great rivers? The Volga, the Danube, etc, are all navigable rivers that served not just for raiding, but for transport and commerce. I'd like to see this represented in CK3.
 
Additionally, we’ve got a full suite of gender laws, corresponding to the gender laws in CK2. These are: Male Only, Male Preference, Equal, Female Preference, and Female Only.
Petty, I was wishing for real agnatic-cognatic, i.e intermediate of agnatic and male-preference, where other close relatives such (brothers, paternal nephews, paternal cousins) will succeed before daughters, and other distant relatives come after. Male-preference the default option is anachronistic results in a significant percentage of female rulers when in most societies such rulers should be uncommon, for women tended to inherit only when they lacked brothers, uncles and cousins, and even then their second cousins often disputed their claim.
 
Last edited:
Speaking about raiding and embarking, would you'd be able to embark if your lands are adjacent to great rivers? The Volga, the Danube, etc, are all navigable rivers that served not just for raiding, but for transport and commerce. I'd like to see this represented in CK3.

I wouldn't assume non vikings could embark/disembark from inner rivers because early ships could not handle river navigation unless they were specifically designed for it
 
Let's start off with a familiar concept from CK2: governments. For the player, we have three playable governments: Feudal, Tribal, and Clan, which each have some significant differences in how they play.
While the amount of government types are few it is important they are well done, adding alot of low quality government forms is not a good idea.

A new addition in CK3 is Feudal Contracts. Every feudal vassal (except barons) has an individual contract with you, rather than obligations being set realm-wide. These contracts have three levels; Low, Medium, and High, with Medium being the default. High will provide more levies and tax at the cost of an opinion hit, while Low provides less but improves opinion. Higher levels are usually better (though perhaps not if you’re at risk of your vassals revolting), but cannot be imposed unilaterally.

You’ll need to have a hook on your vassal in order to increase their obligations unless you’re fine with all your vassals considering you a tyrant, but you can always lower them. As a result this means you can significantly increase your power if you’re able to obtain hooks on your vassals; perhaps a bit of judicious blackmail might be in order?
Nice that it is on the individual level, but just 3 basic levels feels like a missed opportunity.

Furthermore we have the Clan government form. This government is the rough equivalent of the Iqta government in CK2, though in CK3 it does have a more Feudal bent than it did previously.

The Clan government type is used by most Muslim realms. This government puts more emphasis on the family rather than the realm, with most vassals being members of your dynasty. Obligations are heavily based on opinion rather than being contractual, with happy vassals providing significantly more taxes and levies than unhappy ones. A happy family is a powerful family.

Clan governments also have access to the Clan Invasion casus belli, which can be used once in a lifetime at the highest level of Fame to invade a kingdom, providing a powerful boon for a well-established clan ruler.
Right now, Clans have a feeling to be a buffed feudal with a super CB.

Tribal rulers base their obligations on levels of Fame rather than on contracts or opinion; the more famous your ruler is, the more troops and money your vassals will be willing to provide for your pursuits.
Very nice idea:)

Only the Norse can raid across sea; other raid armies will simply be unable to embark.
Why restrict this to only Norse?
 
The pre-Conclave tax/levy sliders were more complicated:
https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Demesne_laws#Vassal_obligations

You had separate sliders for taxes and levies. Conclave changed that to a single and made the game about choosing between money and troops. And made opinion penalties from those laws only temporary. At least CK3 seems to be back to permanent penalties for high obligations
I was mainly refering to the pre-conclave crown authority.
 
For the player, we have three playable governments: Feudal, Tribal, and Clan, which each have some significant differences in how they play.

So Republics and Theocracies are not playable.
But is it moddable? Could I mod to let these become playable?
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Now come on, that wasn't necessary. And yes, I will be pouting over casualizing the fancy medieval words we're used to from CKII.
As Meneth already replied, Gavelkind was never accurate outside the British Isles to start with, having one correct term regardless of region is much preferred hence Partition etc.
 
  • 2
  • 1Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
You’ll need to have a hook on your vassal in order to increase their obligations unless you’re fine with all your vassals considering you a tyrant, but you can always lower them
So regarding the opinion-hit information (in the screenshot), can we hope for a mouseover or similar stating exactly how long this opinion modifier takes to subside and whom it affects? Or, e.g. whose opinion will be pushed beyond a certain important threshold?
I believe I read something about representation of opinion modifiers some time ago, but I am unsure when and whether it was CK3 or another game. Or just a dream...
 
- Overly simplistic feudal contracts
Now, it's worth noting that the various levy/tax laws in CK2 were blanket laws, affecting every vassal equally. This wasn't very accurate, and it also removed both the character aspect and agency from the system. CK3's Vassal Contracts aim to more accurately represent the feudal structure and also create more drama between lieges and their vassals.

When playing, you will really feel when a vassal's contract is set to low or high - there's a much greater disparity in power between realms in CK3 than there was in CK2. Even a realm as powerful as the Holy Roman Empire can be bested by a mere Kingdom, should the HRE have lost a few liberty wars (which usually result in lowered contracts). If you manage your contracts well, you can really punch above your weight.

That said, we understand your concerns, and while we can't promise that we'll change anything for release we promise you that we'll take a look at it for the future.

- No succession type for Byzantium/ERE
Byzantium is its own beast, and requires a lot of thought to do right. The CK2 solution was not optimal, and we didn't want to repeat what we did there. Just slapping an elective variant on it and renaming its government to 'Imperial' doesn't do it justice, we would want actual mechanics to represent the intricacies of byzantine politics. All I can say at this point is that whenever in the future we choose to deal with Byzantium we will make sure that we do it well.

Do we get at least vice royalities in the base game? Even without Imperial Elective starting with everything being VRs always gave a nice bit of flavor for the ERE. You still had all the feudal mechanics underneath unfortunately, but it feels at least a little different.
Viceroyalties was one of the main examples of a feature from CK2 that we absolutely did not want to carry over to CK3. Not only was it way too micromanagement heavy and spammy, but you also had to constantly interact with the system to play optimally - even during stressful times such as during wars. Again, if we choose to make a Viceroyalty feature post-release, we're going to start from scratch and do it properly.

- Powerful vassals still needing to occupy important seats on the council instead of honourary roles, even if they're completely incompetent
This is a conscious choice as it creates drama and interesting choice. Do you want to have an actually competent Steward, or bite the bullet and put your angry but powerful vassal in the position to placate them? Also, the Council roles come with very powerful bonuses to the holder, so there's no surprise that they want to hold them!

- Clan invasion potentially being OP depending on requirements to use it (unsure how difficult reaching high levels of fame will be)
It's very hard to get to that point, much harder than the Invasion requirements in CK2. Essentially, not every ruler will reach that level of fame, and those who do probably get to work for it! Another omission about the Clan government form is that vassals will insist on having an alliance with their liege, which will most likely have to be arranged through marriage. The power of Clans rises and wanes as the years pass - at their peak, they can challenge very powerful Feudal realms where the contracts are negotiated favorably, but at their lows, they are more than susceptible to both factions and being picked apart from the outside. In that sense, Clans are somewhat similar to how Feudal realms played in CK2. :p
 
  • 4
  • 2
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
I am starting to feel that the way CK3 is being made looks like imperator: rome. I was really excited in the beginning and then the DD's came. This one is a good example, I as a CK2 player with around 1500 hours am really disappointed that after (what? a few years of development) there are only 3 types of government. How is this even possible? It was enormously recommende by the community that the government of the byzantines would be something special. Now its just the same as France. WHY!? I really hope that this will not result in payable DLC for being able to play something else than feudal (as was kind of with CK2) and that they will implement this at least later in a free patch.

I understand fully that this is not the fault of the people who try to make an awesome game, but rather that of the company itself. I didn't buy imperator for the exact same reason. I started to see that they were making the game a weak version of other paradox games to appeal a bigger public. As a result they had lost a loyal buyer...
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Speaking about raiding and embarking, would you'd be able to embark if your lands are adjacent to great rivers? The Volga, the Danube, etc, are all navigable rivers that served not just for raiding, but for transport and commerce. I'd like to see this represented in CK3.
If you can raid across sea, you can also travel on major rivers, yes.
So Republics and Theocracies are not playable.
But is it moddable? Could I mod to let these become playable?
I don't think we've decided yet how moddable that will be. Republics and theocracies don't work well with the dynastic gameplay of CK3 though.
 
  • 1
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:
This game, which I am super excited about, just moved one step closer to being more like a Mulan/Disney movie remake, having much larger production value, but ultimately being exactly the same movie, frame by frame.

I did like this DD though, but some of the content like feudal contracts is "Same s***, new wrapping" to me.
And how is it possible to not include unique government types for two of the most popular nations of the time, the Byzantine/Eastern Romans and the Holy Roman Empire at launch?
I dont want to start at the beginning again, like CK2, I want CK3 to take what was good in CK2+all DLC's and move on from here.
It will feel like buying the same product again, it will feel like going to see The Lion King remake, it is not new, it is just different and arguably better looking.

But again, it was a small step in that direction for me today, some of the other DD have made me very positive and makes me believe there is some good innovations going on here too.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
As Meneth already replied, Gavelkind was never accurate outside the British Isles to start with, having one correct term regardless of region is much preferred hence Partition etc.
Renaming it to "Partition" makes perfect sense, I agree. However, I can't help but feel like renaming primogeniture and ultimogeniture to "oldest child succession" and "youngest child succession" is blatant pandering to the casuals.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: