We have already posted suggestions to make some important changes to Pergamon and the Attalis dynasty, the Peloponnese and Northern Greece, here comes the next part.
A little disclamer: we originally got many these ideas anticipating the Cassander patch and a DLC focused on the Greek states and the eastern med, but we've added more stuff related to cultures and religions for the new season! Dear devs, please don't ignore these suggestions!
Anyone who has additional ideas, please post them in the comments!
EDIT: minor corrections (thanks to @Undead Martyr for pointing out a mistake)
A little disclamer: we originally got many these ideas anticipating the Cassander patch and a DLC focused on the Greek states and the eastern med, but we've added more stuff related to cultures and religions for the new season! Dear devs, please don't ignore these suggestions!
Problem I: Bithynia and Astakos had a recent conflict that is not reflected by the game (A Matter of Bithynia generic mission tree feels inadequate, especially as the AI doesn’t do much with it). Zipoetes I tried to conquer it in 315 BC but Astakos received help from Antigonos (that’s how Astakos became a Phrygian feudatory).
Historically, Zipoetes I made a second try to conquer Astakos when Antigonos was defeated and killed at Ipsos. He destroyed Astacos and proclaimed himself King of Bithynia in 297 BC. Nicomedes I later rebuilt Astakos as his new capital, Nicomedia.
Proposed solution: add an Event chain OR mission tree for Bithynia that would:
- give them free claims on Astakos,
- make them declare war on Astakos if Phrygia is busy fighting in a war against someone else
- allow them to proclaim kingdom of Bithynia (claims on the whole Bithynia region, increased legitimacy) once Astakos is conquered.
- Allow them to found Nicomedia and move the capital there (perhaps only if Nikomedes becomes king).
Problem II: Nicomedes I’s second wife, Etazeta is in the game, but his first wife Ditizele is not. This is weird as the later Kings of Bithynia were Ditizele’s descendants and Etazeta lost the struggle for power and was expelled. Her being 18 at start is definitely too old: historically, her son was an infant in 255-254 and she would be 68 in-game. Notably, if AI controls Bithynia, Etazeta also often ends up married to someone else (sometimes even to Zipoetes I!).
Proposed solutions:
- Add Ditizele (Phrygian culture, average stats) to the pre-set characters list, and make her already married to Nikomedes.
- Have Etazeta appear later (with the stats she has now and the uncaring trait) via a customized, unavoidable version of the Discreditable Dalliance event.
- ALTERNATIVELY make Etazeta a new-born baby at start (this would randomize her stats and traits as she grows up and make it extremely unlikely that Nikomedes ever marries her).
Problem III: The borders of provinces of Bithynia and Bithynia Inferior look weird and have (probably unintended) consequences.
- It makes Bithynia (a local power with just 6 territories) have different policies in two provinces and NO grain and earthenware in the capital province.
- It gives Phrygia a tiny province of just one city and one territory that they struggle to develop as it is not worth to spend Influence on policy changes.
- It affects auto-generated missions: Bithynia gets the missions to conquer the two provinces and this puts them at odd with Phrygia. Enticing the governor of Phrygian Bithynia doesn’t give them Antigoneia and Pythopolis because they lack a border.
- It can lead to some weirdly-looking borders if Phrygia collapses: For example, if they conquer Bithynia and Chalcedon, a seceding Bithynia province will also control Pythopolis and Antigoneia Bithyniai with Astakos and Bithynia Inferior cutting the new country in the two isolated parts.
Proposed solution: swap the territories between Bithynia and Bithyna Inferior provinces (the country borders won’t change): move Chelai and Tarsos to Bithynia and Pythopolis and Antigoneia Bithyniai to Bithynia Inferior instead.
In order to make the province name clearer, we also propose to rename the province of Bithynia to Bithynia Litoralis.
This will result in cleaner and more logical province borders:
- Bithynia (Litoralis) province will consist of the coastal areas, split between of four small countries (Bithynia, Kios, Astakos and Chalcedon), all of them completely within one province.
- Bithynia inferior will completely belong to Phrygia, forcing them to spend less on policy change.
- Bithynia (the country) will have two useful tradegoods (grain and cloth) in their capital at start.
- Matter of Bithynia Missions will be slightly easier.
- If Phrygia conquers some areas in Bithynia Litoralis and explodes later, the new countires would have much nicer borders without inaccessible areas.
Problem IV: The Seleucids get a special invention reflecting the introduction of the Seleucid era. However, Bithynia also had a unique calendar starting with Zippoetes I assuming the royal title in 297 BC but they don’t get such a tech.
Proposed solutions: either
- make the Seleukid imperial calendar oratory invention available to Bithynia as well
- make a unique invention for them with a slightly different effect.
Historically, Zipoetes I made a second try to conquer Astakos when Antigonos was defeated and killed at Ipsos. He destroyed Astacos and proclaimed himself King of Bithynia in 297 BC. Nicomedes I later rebuilt Astakos as his new capital, Nicomedia.
Proposed solution: add an Event chain OR mission tree for Bithynia that would:
- give them free claims on Astakos,
- make them declare war on Astakos if Phrygia is busy fighting in a war against someone else
- allow them to proclaim kingdom of Bithynia (claims on the whole Bithynia region, increased legitimacy) once Astakos is conquered.
- Allow them to found Nicomedia and move the capital there (perhaps only if Nikomedes becomes king).
Problem II: Nicomedes I’s second wife, Etazeta is in the game, but his first wife Ditizele is not. This is weird as the later Kings of Bithynia were Ditizele’s descendants and Etazeta lost the struggle for power and was expelled. Her being 18 at start is definitely too old: historically, her son was an infant in 255-254 and she would be 68 in-game. Notably, if AI controls Bithynia, Etazeta also often ends up married to someone else (sometimes even to Zipoetes I!).
Proposed solutions:
- Add Ditizele (Phrygian culture, average stats) to the pre-set characters list, and make her already married to Nikomedes.
- Have Etazeta appear later (with the stats she has now and the uncaring trait) via a customized, unavoidable version of the Discreditable Dalliance event.
- ALTERNATIVELY make Etazeta a new-born baby at start (this would randomize her stats and traits as she grows up and make it extremely unlikely that Nikomedes ever marries her).
Problem III: The borders of provinces of Bithynia and Bithynia Inferior look weird and have (probably unintended) consequences.
- It makes Bithynia (a local power with just 6 territories) have different policies in two provinces and NO grain and earthenware in the capital province.
- It gives Phrygia a tiny province of just one city and one territory that they struggle to develop as it is not worth to spend Influence on policy changes.
- It affects auto-generated missions: Bithynia gets the missions to conquer the two provinces and this puts them at odd with Phrygia. Enticing the governor of Phrygian Bithynia doesn’t give them Antigoneia and Pythopolis because they lack a border.
- It can lead to some weirdly-looking borders if Phrygia collapses: For example, if they conquer Bithynia and Chalcedon, a seceding Bithynia province will also control Pythopolis and Antigoneia Bithyniai with Astakos and Bithynia Inferior cutting the new country in the two isolated parts.
Proposed solution: swap the territories between Bithynia and Bithyna Inferior provinces (the country borders won’t change): move Chelai and Tarsos to Bithynia and Pythopolis and Antigoneia Bithyniai to Bithynia Inferior instead.
In order to make the province name clearer, we also propose to rename the province of Bithynia to Bithynia Litoralis.
This will result in cleaner and more logical province borders:
- Bithynia (Litoralis) province will consist of the coastal areas, split between of four small countries (Bithynia, Kios, Astakos and Chalcedon), all of them completely within one province.
- Bithynia inferior will completely belong to Phrygia, forcing them to spend less on policy change.
- Bithynia (the country) will have two useful tradegoods (grain and cloth) in their capital at start.
- Matter of Bithynia Missions will be slightly easier.
- If Phrygia conquers some areas in Bithynia Litoralis and explodes later, the new countires would have much nicer borders without inaccessible areas.
Problem IV: The Seleucids get a special invention reflecting the introduction of the Seleucid era. However, Bithynia also had a unique calendar starting with Zippoetes I assuming the royal title in 297 BC but they don’t get such a tech.
Proposed solutions: either
- make the Seleukid imperial calendar oratory invention available to Bithynia as well
- make a unique invention for them with a slightly different effect.
Problems (starting political situation):
- Kios starts as a loyal Phrygian tributary. This was not true historically: Mithridates II planned to betray the Antigonids and side with Kassandros. When Antigonos found out about the plot, he had him executed and that caused his son’s escape to Paphlagonia.
- since the 1.3 update Mithridates I of Pontus starts as a minor character in Phrygia. While he is a son of his father, king Mithridates II, he is not a member of the Mithridatid family. A player-controlled Kios can befriend and recruit him back, but even then he doesn’t become primary heir as he should be but has to be adopted into the royal family. Meanwhile, he is a citizen in Phrygia and can be employed in any office.
Combined, this makes it almost impossible to form Mithridatic Pontus as Kios by gaining independence, getting land and taking the form Pontus decision (this was the way to do it in 1.2).
Proposed solution to both: Make Mithridates start in Kios as the primary heir. Make Kios disloyal to Phrygia and give them an instant event with two choices:
- Either affirm loyalty to Phrygia and sent Mithridates jr. to Phrygia as hostage. This would create a very similar situation as now but with Mithridates properly recognized by the game as a member of his family and foreigner in Phrygia, that should reflect his status there better.
- Or launch the plot and defect to Macedon. Kios would stop paying tribute to Phrygia and ask Macedon for an alliance. Macedon would get 100 opinion on Kios, while Phrygia would lose 200 opinion, get claims on Kios and Antigonos should rival Mithridates II. If they later conquer Kios and either adopt the Mithridatid family or imprison important characters, Mithridates escape to Paphlagonia should be able to trigger anyway.
Problems (royal couple):
- Queen Artakama Mithridatid is the spouse of Mithridates II, but does not appear as mother of Mithridates and two of his oldest sisters (Mandane and Anzaza). Instead, she usually has one more (apparently randomly generated) child and often starts PREGNANT AT AGE 75!
- Mithridates II has the traits submissive and cautious. However, he came to the throne by betraying his father or other close relative Ariobarzanes II to the Persians and plotted to betray Antigonos. Giving him the deceitful trait would be appropriate to reflect this.
Proposed solutions:
- Make Artakama the mother of her husband’s children and make her infertile (as appropriate for her age).
- Give Mithridates II a deceitful trait.
- Kios starts as a loyal Phrygian tributary. This was not true historically: Mithridates II planned to betray the Antigonids and side with Kassandros. When Antigonos found out about the plot, he had him executed and that caused his son’s escape to Paphlagonia.
- since the 1.3 update Mithridates I of Pontus starts as a minor character in Phrygia. While he is a son of his father, king Mithridates II, he is not a member of the Mithridatid family. A player-controlled Kios can befriend and recruit him back, but even then he doesn’t become primary heir as he should be but has to be adopted into the royal family. Meanwhile, he is a citizen in Phrygia and can be employed in any office.
Combined, this makes it almost impossible to form Mithridatic Pontus as Kios by gaining independence, getting land and taking the form Pontus decision (this was the way to do it in 1.2).
Proposed solution to both: Make Mithridates start in Kios as the primary heir. Make Kios disloyal to Phrygia and give them an instant event with two choices:
- Either affirm loyalty to Phrygia and sent Mithridates jr. to Phrygia as hostage. This would create a very similar situation as now but with Mithridates properly recognized by the game as a member of his family and foreigner in Phrygia, that should reflect his status there better.
- Or launch the plot and defect to Macedon. Kios would stop paying tribute to Phrygia and ask Macedon for an alliance. Macedon would get 100 opinion on Kios, while Phrygia would lose 200 opinion, get claims on Kios and Antigonos should rival Mithridates II. If they later conquer Kios and either adopt the Mithridatid family or imprison important characters, Mithridates escape to Paphlagonia should be able to trigger anyway.
Problems (royal couple):
- Queen Artakama Mithridatid is the spouse of Mithridates II, but does not appear as mother of Mithridates and two of his oldest sisters (Mandane and Anzaza). Instead, she usually has one more (apparently randomly generated) child and often starts PREGNANT AT AGE 75!
- Mithridates II has the traits submissive and cautious. However, he came to the throne by betraying his father or other close relative Ariobarzanes II to the Persians and plotted to betray Antigonos. Giving him the deceitful trait would be appropriate to reflect this.
Proposed solutions:
- Make Artakama the mother of her husband’s children and make her infertile (as appropriate for her age).
- Give Mithridates II a deceitful trait.
Problem I: Lyttos has no port. While the city itself is indeed located inland, they controlled Chersonesos on the northern coast. The lack of a navy makes a siege of Knossos more difficult since they can’t blockade them from sea.
Proposed solution: Give them a port.
Problem II: Kydonia has forest terrain while the area controlled by ancient Kydonia was the Chania Plain.
Proposed solution: Change the terrain in Kydonia to a plain.
Problem III: some key cities that played an important role in the timeframe of the game, particularly in the Lyttian war and the Cretan war do not exist in-game. This also creates some tactical and strategic problems:
- Hierapytna border the “Mare Creticum” sea tile allowing it to be invaded from there, while it has only a port on the southern side of the Island.
- Praisos is boxed in, bordering only Hierapytna, and has no port (correctly), it has only one possible direction to expand, which is too much railroading.
- The existing web of alliances and feudatories cover almost the entire island; a war that breaks out usually involves all countries except Polyrrhenia and Kydonia. This is too early, the Lyttian war was in 220 BC, AI-launched wars on Crete in early game should be smaller in scale.
- Gortyna has not only two territories but also an adjacent feudatory (Tarrha). It usually becomes the dominant power on the island in a decade or two if AI controls all Cretan countries.
- Crete as a province has quite few food-producing territories.
Proposed solution: Add four more settlement territories. All should be city-states, most should produce food and have no pre-set alliances:
- Itanos, from the northeastern part of Praisos. Plains terrain, have a port (to give them seafaring heritage), probably produces fish. Reasons: Was an important rival of both Praisos and Hierapytna. One of the four major city-states of eastern Crete. Lasted independent much longer than Praisos and had, unlike other Cretan cities, more oversea contacts, particularly with Egypt. Tactically, adding it would stop Praisos from a dead-end as it is now: It would now have a neighbour to the east that could become an ally to secure their back or conquer them and get a port while risking that Ithanos calls in some own allies. Ithanos itself would border only Praisos, but would NOT be a dead-end due to the port and ability to expand overseas.
- Lato, from the northeastern parts of Hierapytna. Hills terrain, a port and a food tradegood. Reasons: One of the four major city-states of eastern Crete, shouldn’t be missing. Adding it would remove the historically inaccurate possibility to invade Hierapytna from the sea in the north, give Hierapytna a possibility to expand northward and give Praisos a second western neighbour increasing their possibilities for diplomacy or expansion. Was also the birthplace of Alexander’s admiral Nearchos, who was still alive (but in Phrygian service in 304 BC) so might later get a unique event or mission related to his legacy.
- Olous, from the eastern parts of Lyttos. Hills terrain, port and probably fish tradegood as Lato. Reasons Was (together with Hierapytna) Macedon’s most important local ally in the Cretan war. Had a temple of Britomartis with a wooden statue of the goddess allegedly made by Daedalus himself. That would provide some interesting flavor, especially since the next expansion should expand gods and religions. Had a border dispute with Lato. As another non-aligned city-state they would be a wildcard, able to strenghten any of the two small blocks on the island or even form an own alliance together with Lato and Ithanos.
- Lappa, from what are now the westernmost parts of Eleutherna and Koryon. Should have hills terrain and produce a food tradegood. Reasons: Was a key location in the Lyttian war until it was destroyed. Having it present between Gortyna and its feudatory Tarrha will make Gortyna less unstoppable and give a nice initial dilemma how to deal with this “roadblock”: befriend and ally them OR conquer them. If they are not allied with Gortyna or conquered by them, a player- controlled Tarrha would have it easier to declare independence from Gortyna and fight them off.
EDIT: Discussion on Lappa's port (or ports, or no port) in the comments below.
Together, they should create a bit more variety in the initial setup, allowing a third alliance to form on Crete (and possibly even a fourth one, consisting of Polyrrhenia, Kydonia and Lappa)
Problem IV: Crete was famous for their archers, but there are NO special bonuses for them in the game.
Proposed solution: Two new low-level military techs, available ONLY to the Cretan countries:
- Large arrowheads, +15% Archers offense. (The famous Cretan archers used bronze arrowheads that were notably larger than those used elsewhere were.)
- Cretan archers, -15% archers cost. (Cretan city-states should have it easier to recruit archers than anyone else.)
Problem V: The 1.3 Livy patch gave Cretan countires unique Omens. That means that while the hellenic religion in Crete is distinct from the rest of the Greek world, Crete itself is too homogenous. The omens (to be replaced with patron gods in the next patch) are the same for all Cretan countires and there are no unique modifiers to sacred locations.
Proposed solution I: We think these territories should get special modifiers and become religious sites:
- Knossos should have a “Eileithyia Cave” unique modifier
- Praisos should have a “Mount Dikte” unique modifier
They should increase conversion speed in these locations and make them eligible for the “sacred city” branch of the Pearl of Hellas generic mission tree.
Proposed solution II: Give the existing Gortyna and two of the cities we propose unique choice of patron deities if they are capitals:
- Gortyna should worship Europa (probably culture category). Reason: the Greeks believed this was the place where Zeus brought Europa and where he fathered three sons with her. Europa was apparently venerated as a Goddess in Gortyna. Her being the namesake of the European continent and mother of the first kings of Crete would be the reason to increase statesmenship.
- Olous should have a worship Britomartis instead of Diktynna (still warfare, but with the Omen increasing naval morale instead of army morale) Reason: while considered aspects of the same goddess, but Britomartis represented the more maritime aspects, being venerated by fishermen and sailors while Diktynna was more venerated by hunters.
- Olous may also have to worship Dedalus (culture or economy category). Reason: he has allegedly made the statue of Britomartis in Olous.
- Lato should worship Leto (fertility goddess). Reason: The city was named after Leto (Lato in the local dialect), mother of Artemis and Apollo.
Depending on what a player who has unified Crete plans to do, getting a choice of these patron deities would give reason to move the national capital to a better location.
Proposed solution: Give them a port.
Problem II: Kydonia has forest terrain while the area controlled by ancient Kydonia was the Chania Plain.
Proposed solution: Change the terrain in Kydonia to a plain.
Problem III: some key cities that played an important role in the timeframe of the game, particularly in the Lyttian war and the Cretan war do not exist in-game. This also creates some tactical and strategic problems:
- Hierapytna border the “Mare Creticum” sea tile allowing it to be invaded from there, while it has only a port on the southern side of the Island.
- Praisos is boxed in, bordering only Hierapytna, and has no port (correctly), it has only one possible direction to expand, which is too much railroading.
- The existing web of alliances and feudatories cover almost the entire island; a war that breaks out usually involves all countries except Polyrrhenia and Kydonia. This is too early, the Lyttian war was in 220 BC, AI-launched wars on Crete in early game should be smaller in scale.
- Gortyna has not only two territories but also an adjacent feudatory (Tarrha). It usually becomes the dominant power on the island in a decade or two if AI controls all Cretan countries.
- Crete as a province has quite few food-producing territories.
Proposed solution: Add four more settlement territories. All should be city-states, most should produce food and have no pre-set alliances:
- Itanos, from the northeastern part of Praisos. Plains terrain, have a port (to give them seafaring heritage), probably produces fish. Reasons: Was an important rival of both Praisos and Hierapytna. One of the four major city-states of eastern Crete. Lasted independent much longer than Praisos and had, unlike other Cretan cities, more oversea contacts, particularly with Egypt. Tactically, adding it would stop Praisos from a dead-end as it is now: It would now have a neighbour to the east that could become an ally to secure their back or conquer them and get a port while risking that Ithanos calls in some own allies. Ithanos itself would border only Praisos, but would NOT be a dead-end due to the port and ability to expand overseas.
- Lato, from the northeastern parts of Hierapytna. Hills terrain, a port and a food tradegood. Reasons: One of the four major city-states of eastern Crete, shouldn’t be missing. Adding it would remove the historically inaccurate possibility to invade Hierapytna from the sea in the north, give Hierapytna a possibility to expand northward and give Praisos a second western neighbour increasing their possibilities for diplomacy or expansion. Was also the birthplace of Alexander’s admiral Nearchos, who was still alive (but in Phrygian service in 304 BC) so might later get a unique event or mission related to his legacy.
- Olous, from the eastern parts of Lyttos. Hills terrain, port and probably fish tradegood as Lato. Reasons Was (together with Hierapytna) Macedon’s most important local ally in the Cretan war. Had a temple of Britomartis with a wooden statue of the goddess allegedly made by Daedalus himself. That would provide some interesting flavor, especially since the next expansion should expand gods and religions. Had a border dispute with Lato. As another non-aligned city-state they would be a wildcard, able to strenghten any of the two small blocks on the island or even form an own alliance together with Lato and Ithanos.
- Lappa, from what are now the westernmost parts of Eleutherna and Koryon. Should have hills terrain and produce a food tradegood. Reasons: Was a key location in the Lyttian war until it was destroyed. Having it present between Gortyna and its feudatory Tarrha will make Gortyna less unstoppable and give a nice initial dilemma how to deal with this “roadblock”: befriend and ally them OR conquer them. If they are not allied with Gortyna or conquered by them, a player- controlled Tarrha would have it easier to declare independence from Gortyna and fight them off.
EDIT: Discussion on Lappa's port (or ports, or no port) in the comments below.
Together, they should create a bit more variety in the initial setup, allowing a third alliance to form on Crete (and possibly even a fourth one, consisting of Polyrrhenia, Kydonia and Lappa)
Problem IV: Crete was famous for their archers, but there are NO special bonuses for them in the game.
Proposed solution: Two new low-level military techs, available ONLY to the Cretan countries:
- Large arrowheads, +15% Archers offense. (The famous Cretan archers used bronze arrowheads that were notably larger than those used elsewhere were.)
- Cretan archers, -15% archers cost. (Cretan city-states should have it easier to recruit archers than anyone else.)
Problem V: The 1.3 Livy patch gave Cretan countires unique Omens. That means that while the hellenic religion in Crete is distinct from the rest of the Greek world, Crete itself is too homogenous. The omens (to be replaced with patron gods in the next patch) are the same for all Cretan countires and there are no unique modifiers to sacred locations.
Proposed solution I: We think these territories should get special modifiers and become religious sites:
- Knossos should have a “Eileithyia Cave” unique modifier
- Praisos should have a “Mount Dikte” unique modifier
They should increase conversion speed in these locations and make them eligible for the “sacred city” branch of the Pearl of Hellas generic mission tree.
Proposed solution II: Give the existing Gortyna and two of the cities we propose unique choice of patron deities if they are capitals:
- Gortyna should worship Europa (probably culture category). Reason: the Greeks believed this was the place where Zeus brought Europa and where he fathered three sons with her. Europa was apparently venerated as a Goddess in Gortyna. Her being the namesake of the European continent and mother of the first kings of Crete would be the reason to increase statesmenship.
- Olous should have a worship Britomartis instead of Diktynna (still warfare, but with the Omen increasing naval morale instead of army morale) Reason: while considered aspects of the same goddess, but Britomartis represented the more maritime aspects, being venerated by fishermen and sailors while Diktynna was more venerated by hunters.
- Olous may also have to worship Dedalus (culture or economy category). Reason: he has allegedly made the statue of Britomartis in Olous.
- Lato should worship Leto (fertility goddess). Reason: The city was named after Leto (Lato in the local dialect), mother of Artemis and Apollo.
Depending on what a player who has unified Crete plans to do, getting a choice of these patron deities would give reason to move the national capital to a better location.
Problem I: Rhodes, Miletos and Halicarnassus start without strong allies (except for the Istros-Miletos alliance, that is useless in practice). They are attacked and conquered by Phrygia in almost every game. Even an alliance or defenisve league between them is not strong enough to help. This is especially jarring as Phrygia has just made peace with Rhodes, lifting the famous siege, and they have previously protected Milet from a Ptolemaic invasion in 312 BC.
Proposed solution:
- Halicarnassos and Miletos should be allied to Phrygia. Alternatively, either of them could instead be a puppet (feudatory or tributary).
- Rhodes should be guaranteed by both Phrygia and Egypt, so Phrygia can't attack them without cancelling it giving them a truce. (an alliance would be inappropriate as Rhodes agreed to stay neutral in a future conflict between Antigonos and Ptolemaios).
Problem II: The Greek territories and countries in Caria Litoralis have either Ionian or Agean culture. However, Doric Greeks, who maintained a distinct identity from their neighbours, lived in the area. As different culture has a modifier on diplomatic relationships and willingness to trade, the absence of a unique, common culture distorts the relationship the countries should have. There was a historical federation between the Doric cities, the Hexapolis, and sometimes one of them tried to dominate the others (like Halicarnassus under Artemisia and Mausolos)
Proposed solutions:
- create a new culture in the Hellenistic group: Doric. Make it the primary culture in Kos, Knidos, Halikaranssos and Rhodes and change a majority of Ionian and Aegean pops in these countries to Doric ( a few freemen and slave pops should remain Ionian and Aegean and Cretan to represent recent immigrants, merchants, mercenaries etc).
- Make the Doric Hexapolis a tier 1 formable. The decision to form it should be available to Kos, Knidos, Halikaranssos and Rhodes and require owning all four capitals.
EDIT: as we've proposed splitting Rhodes into three tiles (see commnet below), the two new settlements Lindos and Kamiros should also be owned)
Problem III: Karpathos is part of the Crete province and all pops the have Cretan culture despite being one of the Dodecanese islands. This also means that Rhodes get a governor position as a local power with only four territories, that feels unwarranted. It also means Rhodes doesn’t get the fish Karpathos produces in the capital province, that would have been useful to feed the city.
Proposed solution: Karpathos should be moved from Crete to Caria Litoralis, bringing it into the same province as Rhodes and its possessions on the mainland. If you worry that it would reduce the number of food-producing settlements in Crete, implement our suggestion to add four new settlements in Crete itself (see above).
Problem IV: Rhodes is driven to expand into Asia by the generic mission tree they always get, while historically they expanded into the Aegean and eastern Crete.
proposed solutions:
- Give Rhodes a unique mission tree to construct the Colossus, replacing the current decision and small series of events. This should busy them for the first few decades, and afterwards they might expand according to the situation. As
- Give Rhodes a unique formable (probably tier 2): the Nesiotic league. Should require the original Nesiotic league not exist anymore, controlling some key Aegean islands, and having at least 100 ships. This would drive Rhodes to expand into the Aegean Sea.
Problem V: The countries have generic families and several notable individuals from these cities lived in 304 BC but are NOT present in the game.
Proposed solution I: add the following characters:
In Rhodes:
- Chares of Lindos, the builder of the Colossus (male, late 20s or older, very high finesse and decent martial. Possibly founder trait (for building the colossus), and if you believe the legends, proud (due to being unable to live with the imperfection) and guileless (due to being tricked with the costs) traits.
- Laches of Lindos, who finished the colossus after Chares’ suicide. Male, should have high finesse, but probably slightly lower than Chares.
In Halikarnassos:
- Heraclitus of Halicarnassus (about 16 years old, male, high charisma and zeal, poet trait). He was a renowned poet, although only one of his poems survived to today, and a friend of Kallimachos of Kyrene.
Elsewhere:
- If you implement Sicyon in the Peloponnese, please add Lysippos (86 years old, very high finesse, Prominent (he was the most famous sculptor of that age and made the statues of alesander) scholar and founder (both due to creating his canon of proportions) as well as obsessive (due to his attention to details) traits. He should probably be a friend of Chares who was his student.
Proposed solution II: inspired by @Rubidium ‘s idea for Aetolian families (see his comment here for more)
Make the three great families of Rhodes represent the old cities of Lindos, Ialyssos and Kameiros that merged to create Rhodes in 408 BC.
Proposed solution:
- Halicarnassos and Miletos should be allied to Phrygia. Alternatively, either of them could instead be a puppet (feudatory or tributary).
- Rhodes should be guaranteed by both Phrygia and Egypt, so Phrygia can't attack them without cancelling it giving them a truce. (an alliance would be inappropriate as Rhodes agreed to stay neutral in a future conflict between Antigonos and Ptolemaios).
Problem II: The Greek territories and countries in Caria Litoralis have either Ionian or Agean culture. However, Doric Greeks, who maintained a distinct identity from their neighbours, lived in the area. As different culture has a modifier on diplomatic relationships and willingness to trade, the absence of a unique, common culture distorts the relationship the countries should have. There was a historical federation between the Doric cities, the Hexapolis, and sometimes one of them tried to dominate the others (like Halicarnassus under Artemisia and Mausolos)
Proposed solutions:
- create a new culture in the Hellenistic group: Doric. Make it the primary culture in Kos, Knidos, Halikaranssos and Rhodes and change a majority of Ionian and Aegean pops in these countries to Doric ( a few freemen and slave pops should remain Ionian and Aegean and Cretan to represent recent immigrants, merchants, mercenaries etc).
- Make the Doric Hexapolis a tier 1 formable. The decision to form it should be available to Kos, Knidos, Halikaranssos and Rhodes and require owning all four capitals.
EDIT: as we've proposed splitting Rhodes into three tiles (see commnet below), the two new settlements Lindos and Kamiros should also be owned)
Problem III: Karpathos is part of the Crete province and all pops the have Cretan culture despite being one of the Dodecanese islands. This also means that Rhodes get a governor position as a local power with only four territories, that feels unwarranted. It also means Rhodes doesn’t get the fish Karpathos produces in the capital province, that would have been useful to feed the city.
Proposed solution: Karpathos should be moved from Crete to Caria Litoralis, bringing it into the same province as Rhodes and its possessions on the mainland. If you worry that it would reduce the number of food-producing settlements in Crete, implement our suggestion to add four new settlements in Crete itself (see above).
Problem IV: Rhodes is driven to expand into Asia by the generic mission tree they always get, while historically they expanded into the Aegean and eastern Crete.
proposed solutions:
- Give Rhodes a unique mission tree to construct the Colossus, replacing the current decision and small series of events. This should busy them for the first few decades, and afterwards they might expand according to the situation. As
- Give Rhodes a unique formable (probably tier 2): the Nesiotic league. Should require the original Nesiotic league not exist anymore, controlling some key Aegean islands, and having at least 100 ships. This would drive Rhodes to expand into the Aegean Sea.
Problem V: The countries have generic families and several notable individuals from these cities lived in 304 BC but are NOT present in the game.
Proposed solution I: add the following characters:
In Rhodes:
- Chares of Lindos, the builder of the Colossus (male, late 20s or older, very high finesse and decent martial. Possibly founder trait (for building the colossus), and if you believe the legends, proud (due to being unable to live with the imperfection) and guileless (due to being tricked with the costs) traits.
- Laches of Lindos, who finished the colossus after Chares’ suicide. Male, should have high finesse, but probably slightly lower than Chares.
In Halikarnassos:
- Heraclitus of Halicarnassus (about 16 years old, male, high charisma and zeal, poet trait). He was a renowned poet, although only one of his poems survived to today, and a friend of Kallimachos of Kyrene.
Elsewhere:
- If you implement Sicyon in the Peloponnese, please add Lysippos (86 years old, very high finesse, Prominent (he was the most famous sculptor of that age and made the statues of alesander) scholar and founder (both due to creating his canon of proportions) as well as obsessive (due to his attention to details) traits. He should probably be a friend of Chares who was his student.
Proposed solution II: inspired by @Rubidium ‘s idea for Aetolian families (see his comment here for more)
Make the three great families of Rhodes represent the old cities of Lindos, Ialyssos and Kameiros that merged to create Rhodes in 408 BC.
Problem I: Currently, the Hellespont sea tile includes both parts of the Aegean Sea and the Marmara Sea, and the Propontis tile includes both a large part of the Marmara Sea and bits of the Black sea near the Bosporus. This negates the role that the straits played as maritime chokepoints:
- A fleet in the Hellespont can block all four crossings from Sestos (to Ilion, Abydos and Lampsakos in Asia and to the Island of Imbros in the Aegean Sea. Realistically, a fleet disrupting transports crossing over to Imbros would have to leave the Dardanelles unguarded and a fleet stationed there couldn’t interrupt boats going to Imbros.
- Fleets leaving port in Lysimacheia, Bisanthe and Kyzikos go to the same sea tile. Realisitcally, any ship leaving one of the ports on the Marmara Sea would have to go through the Dardanelles while a ship from Lysimacheia would have time to move on to the next tile and vice versa.
- The same is true for the ports on the Marmara side of Propontis (Byzanthion and Myeleia) and on the Black Sea side (Rhebas and Philia). The Bosporus is a non-issue!
- A fleet (or even a single ship!) can spy on all neighbouring territories giving a player information about activities there. Realistically it should not be able to do so due to the peninsulas blocking the line in sight.
Proposed solution: split both tiles in two to make the straits important for naval movements.
- the Hellespont tile should be split by a line from Sestos to Ilion, the tree crossings from Europe to Asia should stay in the Hellespont tile, while the western part (with the Lysimacheia port and the crossing to Imbros) should become a new tile named “Sinus Sarosicus”.
- The Propontis tile should be split at the Bosporus, with the eastern part becoming part of the Pontus Euxinus and the western part keeping the name Propontis.
Problem II: Currently, Astakos has no port. This makes them unable to send troops overseas to support Phrygia and is wrong as there is a harbor big enough for any ship of the hellenistic era (it was used by the Ottoman battlecruiser Yavuz during WW1 and afterwards)
Proposed solution: add a Port to Astakos.
- A fleet in the Hellespont can block all four crossings from Sestos (to Ilion, Abydos and Lampsakos in Asia and to the Island of Imbros in the Aegean Sea. Realistically, a fleet disrupting transports crossing over to Imbros would have to leave the Dardanelles unguarded and a fleet stationed there couldn’t interrupt boats going to Imbros.
- Fleets leaving port in Lysimacheia, Bisanthe and Kyzikos go to the same sea tile. Realisitcally, any ship leaving one of the ports on the Marmara Sea would have to go through the Dardanelles while a ship from Lysimacheia would have time to move on to the next tile and vice versa.
- The same is true for the ports on the Marmara side of Propontis (Byzanthion and Myeleia) and on the Black Sea side (Rhebas and Philia). The Bosporus is a non-issue!
- A fleet (or even a single ship!) can spy on all neighbouring territories giving a player information about activities there. Realistically it should not be able to do so due to the peninsulas blocking the line in sight.
Proposed solution: split both tiles in two to make the straits important for naval movements.
- the Hellespont tile should be split by a line from Sestos to Ilion, the tree crossings from Europe to Asia should stay in the Hellespont tile, while the western part (with the Lysimacheia port and the crossing to Imbros) should become a new tile named “Sinus Sarosicus”.
- The Propontis tile should be split at the Bosporus, with the eastern part becoming part of the Pontus Euxinus and the western part keeping the name Propontis.
Problem II: Currently, Astakos has no port. This makes them unable to send troops overseas to support Phrygia and is wrong as there is a harbor big enough for any ship of the hellenistic era (it was used by the Ottoman battlecruiser Yavuz during WW1 and afterwards)
Proposed solution: add a Port to Astakos.
Problem: Byzantion has the Thracian culture, which causes characters there to have the distinct Thracian names instead of the usual Greek ones. This is historically wrong as Byzantion was founded as a Megaran colony and its ruling elite saw themselves as “proper” Greeks and the native Thracians as semi-barbarians.
Proposed solution: We have already proposed to create a separate Megaran culture. We think Byzantion should have this culture as well. This would give them no “wrong culture” malus if they ever engage in diplomacy with Megara but will alienate them a bit from Thrace and Odrysia. All citizen and freemen pops in Byzantion city should change the culture to Megaran while the tribesmen, some slaves and most pops in Philia and Selymbria should remain Thracian, representing the native population that wasn’t assimilated.
Proposed solution: We have already proposed to create a separate Megaran culture. We think Byzantion should have this culture as well. This would give them no “wrong culture” malus if they ever engage in diplomacy with Megara but will alienate them a bit from Thrace and Odrysia. All citizen and freemen pops in Byzantion city should change the culture to Megaran while the tribesmen, some slaves and most pops in Philia and Selymbria should remain Thracian, representing the native population that wasn’t assimilated.
Anyone who has additional ideas, please post them in the comments!
EDIT: minor corrections (thanks to @Undead Martyr for pointing out a mistake)
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