Bickering thread

[Kereminde]

Look, not his fault nobody paid attention to the wedding registry... should have figured it out seeing what the Lyrans were giving the new couple.

But you're right, foxes are silly. Cats are cooler.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Look, not his fault nobody paid attention to the wedding registry... should have figured it out seeing what the Lyrans were giving the new couple.

But you're right, foxes are silly. Cats are cooler.

And among cats, the Smoke Jaguar reigns supreme...

 

[Gauntlet]

It's coming to a PC near you this year:

Trust no one, and keep your laser handy!

It's actually out right now.

Been thinking about picking it up.

Thing is, I absolutely hated. . . HATED . . , playing the RPG but the PC game actually looks fun.

 

[stjobe]

It's actually out right now.

Not on Steam.

Thing is, I absolutely hated. . . HATED . . , playing the RPG

I played it (well, gamemastered it) a lot in the mid-late eighties; it was a jolly good time, and a great way to blow off some steam after all the seriousness of our usual RPG fare: RuneQuest, D&D, Warhammer RPG et al.

You just had to go into it with an attitude of "we're all going to die and that's part of the fun". My players loved the fact that they could backstab each other and not mess up the carefully crafted epic storyline. In fact, they relished the fact that they were supposed to backstab each other.

Clones in Space was the record, I think; not a single Clone made it to lift-off on the first try. Little Lost Warbot was another memorable scenario (from White Dwarf if I don't misremember) that saw a lot of dismembered, vaporised, bullet-ridden clones fall by the wayside.

I mean, not getting to the end of the scenario was half of the charm with the game

 

[ntw]

It's actually out right now.

Been thinking about picking it up.

Thing is, I absolutely hated. . . HATED . . , playing the RPG but the PC game actually looks fun.

Sadly the reviews I've seen aren't positive

 

[Gauntlet]

Not on Steam.]

True. But it *has* released . . .

I played it (well, gamemastered it) a lot in the mid-late eighties; it was a jolly good time, and a great way to blow off some steam after all the seriousness of our usual RPG fare: RuneQuest, D&D, Warhammer RPG et al.

You just had to go into it with an attitude of "we're all going to die and that's part of the fun". My players loved the fact that they could backstab each other and not mess up the carefully crafted epic storyline. In fact, they relished the fact that they were supposed to backstab each other.

Clones in Space was the record, I think; not a single Clone made it to lift-off on the first try. Little Lost Warbot was another memorable scenario (from White Dwarf if I don't misremember) that saw a lot of dismembered, vaporised, bullet-ridden clones fall by the wayside.

I mean, not getting to the end of the scenario was half of the charm with the game

You are very correct in the whole mindset thing. And I think that was my problem. I was never in the correct mindset to play it.

Not sure if it just wasn't the right time when our GM picked it up but it just never clicked with me. The main problem I had with it, and again, it's the "mindset" thing, was what your players loved. The whole backstabbing each other.

I really dislike that in an RPG. And, perhaps, if the "rogues" that I'd encountered hadn't used "well i'm a rogue!!" as their excuse to screw over everyone, all the time, it would have been a different story.

But like has been said in other threads on these forums, RNG is funner when everyone's gathered around the table and can have a laugh. Backstabbing is perfectly fine when it's the computer doing it.

All hail the Computer!

Sadly the reviews I've seen aren't positive

There is that.

But then, hate sells so I'm not surprised that all the reviews are bashing the game. They get more clicks for being outraged over it rather than saying it's an okay thing.

Not to say that it might not be as bad as they say but I'm finding it harder and harder to take game "reviews" seriously.

 

[Kereminde]

So, ran a test stream, this PC was doing a heck of a lot better with stream quality than the laptop was. (TwitchTest reported 88 or 100 in all NA servers.) The game ran pretty smooth, looking more detailed than I've run it before, and only had a couple minor hitches I caught. (And I played bad with my attention a lot on the gaming rig and stream than "good decisions" - cost me an UAC/10. Oh well, was planning on scrapping that career anyway - was the aborted "Second Stream" I'd intended to do.)

Now, I had two things of minor concern. One was the CPU fan blowing warm air, which it's supposed to do, but the case fan in the rear didn't seem to be moving air OUT quickly. I'm not gonna close the last side up for a bit - also since the video card's power cabling looks like it'll be pushing back against it and that's ... not good. Maybe a quarter inch space wider would have made the difference. Second thing was my ears picking up a faint vibration off the CPU fan - intermittently. Not loud, I had to mute everything and turn off the fan I use to circulate air in my room itself... and it was intermittently, which tells me it's probably when the fan kicks into higher speed. Not entirely sure if I should be concerned... as I said, it's very faint and might be "normal" rather than me not securing things fully/properly.

I'm planning on running a couple more tests this weekend if possible, then maybe resuming a 'semi regular' streaming schedule of Campaign Mode.

 

[DarkSpade]

(Been tempted to respond to numerous threads lately with this, but I've decided it's best to not derail them with what's really its own topic.)

First off, I love it when games are mod-able. It extends the life of the game and can add so many fun elements. It's like having thousands of free DLC.

Thing is, that every time I see, "X needs to be fixed," someone always replies, "that's what mods are for." No it's not. Sure they can, but that doesn't mean they should have to be relied on. Mods are the answer when it either adds something to the game or is a big enough change that it sends the game in a different direction. When someone wants a certain mech in the game, then yeah, that's what mods are for. When someone hates hard points, that's what mods are for.

When you regularly see posts across multiple forums of people thinking it's a bug that mechs have become easier to find than weapons and ammo in stores(for example), that's what a patch is for. Sure, some popular issues can easily be fixed with a mod, but what about when the game's updated and suddenly those mods don't work and never will because the mod author moved on? Now, not only is your save game possibly worthless, but your next play through is going to have to put up with that same issue(s) again.

It's cool to see the community embrace mods and I'm glad HBS is moving to being more mod friendly. I just don't want to see it become a hall pass for any problems/bugs in the game.

 

[Havamal]

(Been tempted to respond to numerous threads lately with this, but I've decided it's best to not derail them with what's really its own topic.)

First off, I love it when games are mod-able. It extends the life of the game and can add so many fun elements. It's like having thousands of free DLC.

Thing is, that every time I see, "X needs to be fixed," someone always replies, "that's what mods are for." No it's not. Sure they can, but that doesn't mean they should have to be relied on. Mods are the answer when it either adds something to the game or is a big enough change that it sends the game in a different direction. When someone wants a certain mech in the game, then yeah, that's what mods are for. When someone hates hard points, that's what mods are for.

When you regularly see posts across multiple forums of people thinking it's a bug that mechs have become easier to find than weapons and ammo in stores(for example), that's what a patch is for. Sure, some popular issues can easily be fixed with a mod, but what about when the game's updated and suddenly those mods don't work and never will because the mod author moved on? Now, not only is your save game possibly worthless, but your next play through is going to have to put up with that same issue(s) again.

It's cool to see the community embrace mods and I'm glad HBS is moving to being more mod friendly. I just don't want to see it become a hall pass for any problems/bugs in the game.

Bugs? Yes absolutely.
The problem with that though is that those examples potentially aren't bugs nor are they necessarily things that "need to be fixed" but rather could be individual preferences of particular players. Though that's for the Devs to decide.
Vanilla won't appeal exactly 100% to all players tastes.
Which is exactly what constructive suggestions are for, but also what modding is for.
The game probably can't be all things to all people in vanilla. Likewise while the Devs have always been open to look into them, just making everything an options setting is also not always possible, development time is finite and they ultimately have to choose what they can focus on.
But at the same time when discussing preferences it's certainly fair for fans to agree to disagree and to want different things, though we should always please be careful not to phrase opinions as if they were facts.
Best to just give constructive feedback or suggestions. Some may wind up utilized by the Devs. Some will ultimately be utilized by mod makers.

Spoiler

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-of-heavy-metal-part-3.1289225/#post-26053534

 

[Prussian Havoc]

@DarkSpade, Modding is a Solution... but it is not necessarily the Solution.

But I keenly feel my own frustration when “Just Mod It” is thrown out there as a Hall Pass.

HBS has a role to play in moving BATTLETECH forward. And that is why they first began speaking of a BATTLETECH Live Support Team back in the 2015 Kickstarter. Just a few months ago we heard from HBS that the BATTLETECH Live Support Team (BT-LST) has been stood up and is on the job.

It’s true, Co-op May no longer be the first priority after polishing the game, but then their Co-op FAQ was last updated in DEC ‘15. :bow:


Besides while I would value and make HEAVY use of Co-op when running my offering from the BATTLETECH Command Academy, all-in-all I would much rather have Free Update 1.9 than Co-op Mode. Though I do hold out hope that Co-op Mode will be somewhere in the BT-LST Priorities of Work.



Now that I stop and consider it, Co-op would change for the better the WHOLE dynamic of the BATTLETECH Command Academy: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/battletech-command-academy.1116995/

That is just plain exciting. As exciting as being a Smoke Jaguar Star Commander dropping onto the planet of Luthien for a true Test of Arms! : )

 

[Havamal]

@DarkSpade, Modding is a Solution... but it is not necessarily the Solution.

But I keenly feel my own frustration when “Just Mod It” is thrown out there as a Hall Pass.

HBS has a role to play in moving BATTLETECH forward. And that is why they first began speaking of a BATTLETECH Live Support Team back in the 2015 Kickstarter. Just a few months ago we heard from HBS that the BATTLETECH Live Support Team (BT-LST) has been stood up and is on the job.

It’s true, Co-op May no longer be the first priority after polishing the game, but then their Co-op FAQ was last updated in DEC ‘15. :bow:
View attachment 538601

Besides while I would value and make HEAVY use of Co-op when running my offering from the BATTLETECH Command Academy, all-in-all I would much rather have Free Update 1.9 than Co-op Mode. Though I do hold out hope that Co-op Mode will be somewhere in the BT-LST Priorities of Work.



Now that I stop and consider it, Co-op would change for the better the WHOLE dynamic of the BATTLETECH Command Academy: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/battletech-command-academy.1116995/

That is just plain exciting. As exciting as being a Smoke Jaguar Star Commander dropping onto the planet of Luthien for a true Test of Arms! : )

Coop isn't a bug either, it's a feature request. And a Huge one just for clarity.

Falls under the suggestions category.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Coop isn't a bug either, it's a feature request. And a Huge one just for clarity.

Falls under the suggestions category.

I could be mistaken.

Let’s review HBS’s own BATTLETECH Co-operative Play Mode Kickstarter Frequently Asked Question:


HBS was indeed lucky enough to see Kickstarter Fundfing go past its $2,500,000 Stage Four Kickstarter goal. As a matter of fact, HBS saw Kickstarter Funding go all the way up to $2,785,537.

Co-op is not a feature request. HBS itself identified Co-op as first among the features and content that it’s BATTLETECH Live Support Team would work on. Admittedly we’ve not heard any substantive update since the DEC 2015 FAQ, but the assumption should not be that it has fallen so far off the plate as to now be a brand new customer feature request.


What I am saying here is that while BATTLETECH Live Support Team work continues, Co-op has no doubt shifted to the right quite understandably. And yes, I would much prefer to see Free Update 1.9 rather than Co-op next out of the gates from HBS. :bow:

 

[Corraidhin]

My view would be that mods are perfect for house rules, but not for actual game features. Those should still be requested in suggestions. You never know, they may sneak in to a free patch or even a Battletech 2.

 

[Havamal]

I could be mistaken.

Let’s review HBS’s own BATTLETECH Co-operative Play Mode Kickstarter Frequently Asked Question:
View attachment 538622

HBS was indeed lucky enough to see Kickstarter Fundfing go past its $2,500,000 Stage Four Kickstarter goal. As a matter of fact, HBS saw Kickstarter Funding go all the way up to $2,785,537.

Co-op is not a feature request. HBS itself identified Co-op as first among the features and content that it’s BATTLETECH Live Support Team would work on. Admittedly we’ve not heard any substantive update since the DEC 2015 FAQ, but the assumption should not be that it has fallen so far off the plate as to now be a brand new customer feature request.


What I am saying here is that while BATTLETECH Live Support Team work continues, Co-op has no doubt shifted to the right quite understandably. And yes, I would much prefer to see Free Update 1.9 rather than Co-op next out of the gates from HBS. :bow:

Spoiler: "If we're lucky enough to get funding beyond our 2.5, goal it will go to polishing the features and content we've already committed to."

The Kickstarter is over bud. The money is spent, years ago, making the base game (and supporting it) as per the FAQ above. The difference you address above $285.000 is not much in software dev.

In fact they're still adding to and polishing the base game.

Coop has never been an officially confirmed feature. It has always been a feature that would be cool and that everyone likes the idea of but with the caveat: "if".

Until Mitch says Coop is coming that's a suggestion for a feature request.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

View attachment 538625

The Kickstarter is over bud. The money is spent, years ago, making the base game.

In fact they're still adding to and polishing the base game.

Coop has never been an officially confirmed feature. It has always been a feature that would be cool and that everyone likes the idea of but with the caveat: "if".

Until Mitch says Coop is coming that's a suggestion for a feature request.

Good Sir, I understand your comments.

I respectfully disagree, but I understand your comments. :bow:

 

[Havamal]

You never know, they may sneak in to a free patch or even a Battletech 2.

This is certainly true.

Which is why people should make their individual suggestions.

 

[Packrat]

I agree. Mods are a wonderful option, but it sometimes feels like some people use the possibility of mods to dismiss suggestions/requests for the base game, which can be frustrating.

Officially released content has better integration and, frequently, better technical support and higher quality. You don't need to worry about officially released content breaking with a future game update, or conflicting with other content.

Mods are great, but they're not the same as getting that stuff from the devs.

 

[stjobe]

I've been known to mod a few games (I've created mods/addons for WoW, WAR, ESO, and a few others - when you're a programmer and there's an API it's hard to not scratch that itch to make the game behave the way you want...), and I can guarantee that not one single cent has been spent by me on customer support, QA, or making sure there's no edge-case in my code that breaks the (paid-for) game horribly for my non-paying "customers".

Sure, if I got notified there was a bug, or someone asked for a feature, I tried to fix the bug or implement the feature, but never with any sort of guarantees - in fact, quite the opposite, the usual mod/addon disclaimer is "use at your own risk, if it breaks the game in horrible ways, the author takes no responsibility".

It's about as far from being a paid dev working on a company title as you can get.

 

[Havamal]

Officially released content has better integration and, frequently, better technical support and higher quality. You don't need to worry about officially released content breaking with a future game update, or conflicting with other content.

Mods are great, but they're not the same as getting that stuff from the devs.

Agreed.

However, another way people dismiss the suggestions or preferences of others is to call them broken, silly/ridiculous, or a bug, something that needs to be fixed, or statements it would be easy if the devs would just... especially in instances where its a balance item, an availability frequency, or a preference, (even often an all new mechanic) being discussed.
This leads to frustration that is circular as in turn various mechanics are implemented based on feedback and community members of multiple perspective take turns being on the other end.

Maintaining context around discussion (even and especially when that context might be just having empathy for each other) and agreeing to disagree helps avoid that for everyone.

Best would be for us all to each share one's feedback suggestions, sans hyperbole, let others do the same, and let the devs draw their own conclusions.

 

[Corraidhin]

Where I think mods could really shine is in Flashpoint creation. A flashpoint mod pach that adds incidents between the game start point and the clan invasion would be great.

They wouldn't need to add 'mechs, weapons etc, or change rules/game behavour. Simply adding in the incidents with branching structures could add lots to the game.