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CK3 Dev Diary #08 - Courts, Guests, and Wanderers

Hello everyone!

To most of you I’m a new “face”, so let me introduce myself. I was a Content Designer on CK2 for Reaper’s Due, Monks & Mystics and Jade Dragon, where my most important contribution was essential cat content (yes, I also wrote the Spymaster Mittens event chain, and yes, the cat portrait in CK2’s animal kingdom is based on my real-life furbaby). Since JD, I’ve been on the excellent CK3 team and we can’t wait for you to see everything we’ve worked on! Sadly, I don’t have any cat news for you today, but I have something that is nearly as exciting: the Court, Guests, and Wanderers.

The courts of CK3 are very similar to those in CK2. The Court consists of your landless subjects, such as some of your Family, Knights, and Councillors. However, you will generally have fewer Courtiers than in CK2. Courtiers who don’t have any duties or other reasons for staying will eventually decide to leave in pursuit of other opportunities. Fear not – they will let you know before they go. Courtiers leaving might feel like a bad thing, but I promise, it’s actually a part of a really neat feature (more on that further down). In addition to enabling the neat feature, this also means your remaining Courtiers will be more relevant to you than before. No more random strangers at the dinner table!

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Your Court will still be a bustling place, full of new acquaintances. In addition to the Courtiers, the core members of your court, you will also have Guests paying you visits. These individuals will interact with your Courtiers and appear in events. Guests stay for a few years before they leave. If you want a Guest to stick around, you can recruit them. Just remember to give them a reason to stay! Giving them a spot on the council or a shiny title never fails, but seducing them also does the trick.

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Guests look for opportunities and will be more likely to visit if they think you might recruit them. For example, Claimants will seek you out if you are strong enough to press their Claims, and suitors might appear if you or your adult children are unmarried. The interface will give you a handy overview to easily identify Guests with special Skills, Traits and Claims. You also have some influence over the type of Guests you attract. There are Invitation Decisions you can take to increase the chance of having good Knights and Claimants visiting, and there is a Dynasty Perk to increase the likelihood of useful Guests.

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But where do all these Guests come from? You see, when a mommy and a daddy love each other very much… Oh, you meant “where are they before they appear in my court”? Well, characters without a permanent home wander around on the map, and visit Courts along the way. This is where characters leaving your court comes in - they will become Wanderers! For example, a son or daughter who is too far down in the line of succession to inherit might become a Wanderer to find a new Liege to press their Claims. Characters might also find themselves on the road by being banished or losing all their land.

All of this means that your guests often have interesting backstories. Many of them have families and relationships, and they keep developing during their journeys. If you check in on a family member who is out wandering, you might find that they have married or picked up some new skills (or a juicy secret…) since they left your Court. Perhaps they’ve even become a Mercenary Captain or the head of a Holy Order!

In the world of CK3, your ruler is the main character, but it is our hope that courtiers, guests, and wanderers will become a great supporting cast. I’m looking forward to hearing about all the little subplots you will discover.

That is all for this Development Diary my friends. Take care and we’ll see you in 2020!
 
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Great, now my imbecile brother will return with the might of the HRE behind him as the Kaiser wants some gullible fool on the throne...

Well, I do hope wanderers can lead to that kind of scenario sometimes. They do look promising :).
 
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Questions!

Can we send our family members and courtiers temporally to other couts to fill some duty, like cathering support for plots, fabricating claims, sow discord or just get better releations with liege or vassals.

Can our offboard courtiers keep theyr minor titles, like friend who is court musician is also that title in other court and can also get local titles,

do wanderers have home court or are they homeless

Is there way to protect your wealth atleast partially. In CK2 if charcter gets banished he/she loses all money and titles. In HIP mod charcter only loses some of its money. Is there ways to reserve character wealt like own gems, jewels or some offshore bank account, this was rather common in medevel world nobles had wealth hidden away or made of easely movable especially When Romanov fell in russia they took alot of family trasure with them who escaped.
 
Hirdman instead of knights for Germanics maybe as that is already a honorary title in CK2 aswell as Ishads for Nomads (Even tho they are not playable i think) and many more diverse names it would be weird if they kept calling them knights everywhere in-game
Could probably work.
 
I really like the Wanderer idea, but isn't years a long time to have them as guests? Would months not be better? Or would that result into too much computation of wanderers shifting around courts?
 
Banished characters without titles and characters you ask to leave your court won't reappear in your court, will they? In other words, will characters that become wanderers be able to remember which courts they are not welcome in? The idea of heresiarchs and apostates wandering back to my court after I told them they weren't welcome in my court is irritating.

If wanderers do remember which courts they aren't welcome in, what happens in the extremely unlikely case that they are rejected by every court in the game?

I assume they are culled by the game. Either way, I believe it would be impossible for there to be 100% of the characters reject courtier X and the first ones still being alive when he needs to look for another court after he goes away from the last lord's court. I'd assume it takes at least a few months/a year or two before they wander to another court, and with there being 100s of courts around the map, only an immortal courtier would be able to make this theoretical tour de CK3.
 
I'm disappointed with this change. I'm interested in the historical/role-playing side of CK (as opposed to the min-maxing playstyle) and fewer courtiers means fewer stories. I guess that it's been done for performance reasons, which is a noble aim and something that we all benefit from. But characters are the core gameplay of the CK series; what else could be so important that it justifies culling a whole category of characters?!?

I hope you do not have to micromanage courtier marriages anymore.

This is one of my favourite aspects of CK2! The lack of influence over character marriages is also why I stopped playing EU:Rome - it was so infuriating to have such a vital part of character development behave so randomly. The fact that there's still no control over character marriages in Imperator really puts me off buying it. Patron-client relationships were *so* important in Roman society!

Hordes of courtiers is immersive. Not knowing anything about them is not. It would be vital for an emperor to know who all those people are that are hanging around him every day.

I've never lived in a feudal court (!), but I've spent some time in households and businesses in Asia that consisted of a 'big man'/'power couple' and servants/flunkies/clients around them. In those situations, there were multiple circles of people around the 'lord'. For example, the nanny might encounter a problem with the plumbing > she calls her husband in to fix it > soon the husband is a regular presence in the household and is paid to drive the kids to school > when he's away his old schoolfriend drives them instead..... In the end, you only have a vague idea of who some of these people are. And in a patriarchal culture, the main man knew more of the people on the business side and the woman more of the people on the domestic side. But you almost never had people who just wandered in (there were literal and metaphorical gate-keepers to stop that happening), so making introductions into other such 'courts' was an important way to get stuff done. I think CK2 captured that milieu much better than the system in this dev diary.

P.S. Welcome to the forums, @Virtuvali. I'm sorry to be so negative on your first post; I really enjoyed a lot of M&M and TRD content so I'm sure you've lots of good stuff in store for us!
 
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With this DD introducing courtiers and explaining that they will likely only go to adjacent counties and sometimes all the way across the map, will character location matter? it's goofy in CK2 for commanders to teleport all the way across the world to the army they're commanding. More emphasis on character location would be a neat addition to the game with the king and his courtiers moving faster than an army, but not teleporting like commanders in ck2. Cool events when travelling with courtiers or moving from county to county would be amazing for game flavor.
 
This is one of my favourite aspects of CK2! The lack of influence over character marriages is also why I stopped playing EU:Rome - it was so infuriating to have such a vital part of character development behave so randomly. The fact that there's still no control over character marriages in Imperator really puts me off buying it. Patron-client relationships were *so* important in Roman society!
Is there any historical precedent for a lord forcing some of his courtiers without family ties to marry someone without any reasons like siring a bastard?
 
Guests can stay for a few years WITHOUT a reason?

I know it's for gameplay but it sounds so damn funny.

It's more like "without a reason to stay here forever"

Living in this country, talking to people who surely can be friendly with you, having good times are already reasons one could live in a court.
After few years, if you're not councilor or vassal you may be like "Well, let's see something else" but I am pretty sure you can live in a country for more than months without important reasons.
 
One thing I wanted more out of CK 3 was interesting gameplay outside of combat. Granted I'm no historian so I don't know how accurate or realistic this idea is but I was hoping for a great deal of interaction with the court, that the honorary titles (and maybe more positions) would actually be meaningful.
This wanderer mechanic sounds interesting.
 
I assume it'll be culturally and religiously appropriate. I mean, it makes sense for (say) a Jewish courtier to show up practically anywhere on the map, but rather less sense for a Pious Sunni to seek a position at the court of a Catholic. I'm not saying it never happened, of course, but it should be a rare exception rather than the norm.
 
So if dismissing courtiers makes them wanderers, can we still not get rid of child courtiers that clog up your court? It was always infuriating that there was a massive build-up of random children in my courts, with no way to get rid of them other than murder or waiting till they were 16.
 
I hope you do not have to micromanage courtier marriages anymore.

Courtiers won't marry without your permission but wanderers will marry. Some of your guests will visit together with their spouse, and if you recruit one you get both.

Also, no more keeping dynasty members at court, such as family, for years whilst you use them for marriages & titles as you see fit. Going to be annoying trying to marry of your daughter to a eligible title holder, then find she has left to marry a rival, who will then have claim on you.

Close family members will be more hesitant to leave. Daughters in realms with male only or male preference inheritance laws will stay in your court, as will sons in realms with female only or female preference inheritance. Unless they're very brave and decisive, because then they might decide to go on an adventure anyway!

I do wonder if we still have the mechanic of being able to google search for the perfect people and then easily recruit them if they are free and you don't have a terrible rep? It's one of the things that really bother me with CK2 as talented people feels so easy to detect and snipe.

You can invite specific people to court, but they will be a lot more hesitant to say yes than in CK2. However, you can use hooks (as mentioned by Voffvoffhunden in a previous DD) to "convince" characters to become your courtier, even if they'd rather stay where they are.

Will we be able to press a courtier's claim and have them be our vassal without having to give them a barony or something first to make them our vassal? I've always felt that was a weird, not purposeful mechanic

Pressing a courtier's claim will make them your vassal (if possible).
 
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I assume it'll be culturally and religiously appropriate. I mean, it makes sense for (say) a Jewish courtier to show up practically anywhere on the map, but rather less sense for a Pious Sunni to seek a position at the court of a Catholic. I'm not saying it never happened, of course, but it should be a rare exception rather than the norm.
If they really mostly go to adjacent courts that should not be a problem. Why wouldn't a muslim seek empmoyment with a neighbouring catholic ruler in, for example, spain?
It wasn't always a fight to the death between different religions all the time.
 
Looks cool! I'm glad to see that religions other than Christian are still playable.
 
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Should be straight forward enough I think. Since they already have a system in place for summarizing what's notable about a character, it would probably be easy enough to add a notification that includes this information when a guest arrives.

There is indeed a notification if an especially interesting guest arrives.

Will wanderers flock more to higher tier titles? I feel like the Byzantine emperor, for instance, ought to have a higher median court size than, say, one of his count-level vassals. Of course, the count could take efforts to get a large court, but by default, the emperor should likely have more wanderers, since the emperor likely would be perceived as having more to offer (wealth, power to press claims, etc.)

Yes, this is mostly how it works. Every court has a "soft cap" depending on the tier which includes both courtiers and guests. Wanderers will try to join as guests to fill the court up to the cap. There is also a minimum number of guests, so every court will have guests, despite being over the cap.

How long will they stay "without a reason" after being recruited this way?

This might be rebalanced before release, but currently courtiers who can leave will leave after 3 years on average. However, this number can vary a lot. For examples, claimants who think you might be able to press their claims will be more patient. Courtiers who really like you or are related to you will also generally stay for a longer time.


The 'pushing claims' player in me is really worried at the price tag of 110 just to recruit someone. I know the numbers aren't final, and I also know it was arguably too easy in CK2 to just lure claimaints over with 15 gold and maybe a favor.

The economy isn't balanced yet, so no numbers are final :) It might be interesting to know that claimants will be significantly more costly to recruit compared to other guests.
 
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