“The Crown Atomic”: A Kaiserreich Cold War AAR (Canada and Entente)

[Maximus101]

Part of me thinks if they had a say in the matter Eastern Europe wouldn't want to keep their monarchs. Of course that's assuming they still have a say (that depends on the radical SPD though)

If Germany and the radical SPD stopped imposing German will I think republican movements would quickly overtake the nations. They don't have a situation in like Flanders-Wallonia the German monarch heroically stayed back to fight against the pillaging invader. In Eastern Europe the Germans probably seem like the pillagers.

In AAR these are the things the German imposed monarchies in Eastern Europe have done.

1. Suppressed local culture in the name of German culture
2. Gave advantage to German businesses at the expense of locals
3. Drafted their people to die in foreign adventures maintain German Imperialism
4. Generally bowed to German foreign policy goals.
   
5. Bringing their troops home with problems like drug addiction and STIs
   
6. Shot Protestors and run them over with tanks for flimsy reasons
7. All the general nastiness that comes with authoritarian dictatorships (abusive security forces, unaccountable officials)
8. Had lackluster economic growth that they have protested (They are better off than OTL but you can't use what is a hypothetical to them as an argument for why they should worshiping Germany)
   
9. Having all this imposed without any recourse.

Add in the fact that since Russia has been a republic it hasn't done any aggressive foreign moves. The people of Eastern Europe probably associate monarchy with "foreign imperialistic pillaging authoritarians" and republicanism with "perhaps chaotic but at least I don't need to look over my shoulder." I mean to them after the Czar was overthrown Russia mellowed out while monarch The anglosphere experience is likely completely alien to them.

The last good thing written about them that I recall was when Hassel made his "market reforms" in the 1940s and they got a temporary economic boost.

I'm not going to talk about Northern France except to say that almost every update that mentions Francois mentions how awful his relationship is with France or has something bad in France associated with him. The guy started his reign letting Paris starve and rot away because it was too expensive to do anything.

The idea that Germany can quickly be nice and everyone in Mitteleurope will be happy EU like community of nations where the plebs love their German monarchs is, to me, childishly naive.

Germany hasn't been a nice overlord. If the people get the vote they are going to rush out, damn the consequences (including economic).

This AAR started with the premise of 'cold ware between Canada and Germany.' I think the conclusion is that Germany lost, and the lack of compromise in the system of "Germans First" did them in.

 

[Casko]

If Germany and the radical SPD stopped imposing German will I think republican movements would quickly overtake the nations.

You say Republican movements would overtake, but isn't pseudo-democratic ways also a German institution pushed there? atleast with the way Poland had its "Eternal Regency" system. So I'd argue that rather than Republican, some could easily go full on "Revive the National Spirit" Ultra-Nationalist as well. But I digress.

That said, what you said with Russia and its democracy, it does make it more likely. And perhaps even to things such as Belarus flat out rejoining into Russia, much like how its been making silent noises to that general direction in OTL while Poland does its usual thing of "Stuck between two powers". with clear Emphasis towards East rather than to West as a kind of reverse of our world.
And most likely Russia will eventually form a kind of "Warsaw Pact, but Democratic and friendly" in Europe.

The idea that Germany can quickly be nice and everyone in Mitteleurope will be happy EU like community of nations where the plebs love their German monarchs is, to me, childishly naive.

Heck, even in our time, despite having been quite passive nation since the end of Cold War, Germans are still seen as oppressive overlords in ever growing parts of EU, and going for Germans First with economic and trade dictates. If anything Germans might be forced to keep up a forced Mitteleurope to not be surrounded by foes on both sides without proper buffer states to guard German lands.

 

[Quaehaer]

Part of me thinks if they had a say in the matter Eastern Europe wouldn't want to keep their monarchs. Of course that's assuming they still have a say (that depends on the radical SPD though)

If Germany and the radical SPD stopped imposing German will I think republican movements would quickly overtake the nations. They don't have a situation in like Flanders-Wallonia the German monarch heroically stayed back to fight against the pillaging invader. In Eastern Europe the Germans probably seem like the pillagers.

In AAR these are the things the German imposed monarchies in Eastern Europe have done.

1. Suppressed local culture in the name of German culture
2. Gave advantage to German businesses at the expense of locals
3. Drafted their people to die in foreign adventures maintain German Imperialism
4. Generally bowed to German foreign policy goals.
   
5. Bringing their troops home with problems like drug addiction and STIs
   
6. Shot Protestors and run them over with tanks for flimsy reasons
7. All the general nastiness that comes with authoritarian dictatorships (abusive security forces, unaccountable officials)
8. Had lackluster economic growth that they have protested (They are better off than OTL but you can't use what is a hypothetical to them as an argument for why they should worshiping Germany)
   
9. Having all this imposed without any recourse.

Add in the fact that since Russia has been a republic it hasn't done any aggressive foreign moves. The people of Eastern Europe probably associate monarchy with "foreign imperialistic pillaging authoritarians" and republicanism with "perhaps chaotic but at least I don't need to look over my shoulder." I mean to them after the Czar was overthrown Russia mellowed out while monarch The anglosphere experience is likely completely alien to them.

The last good thing written about them that I recall was when Hassel made his "market reforms" in the 1940s and they got a temporary economic boost.

I'm not going to talk about Northern France except to say that almost every update that mentions Francois mentions how awful his relationship is with France or has something bad in France associated with him. The guy started his reign letting Paris starve and rot away because it was too expensive to do anything.

The idea that Germany can quickly be nice and everyone in Mitteleurope will be happy EU like community of nations where the plebs love their German monarchs is, to me, childishly naive.

Germany hasn't been a nice overlord. If the people get the vote they are going to rush out, damn the consequences (including economic).

This AAR started with the premise of 'cold ware between Canada and Germany.' I think the conclusion is that Germany lost, and the lack of compromise in the system of "Germans First" did them in.

Yeah, I think that’s a pretty good analysis of the monarchies. The kingdoms have had 70 years to try to tie the concept of the independent nation to the monarchy. But it will still be noticeable no matter how much time has passed the monarchs in Eastern Europe are all Germans

The only thing where there might be some leniency is for the worst of the drafting. Germany seemed to specifically avoid trying to draft (for Afrika) from any of the puppet states. There were mentions of troops from Eastern European states, particularly Ukraine. But at the least , troops from Eastern Europe were described as being expeditionary forces, and total troop figures specifically mentioned German troops. Meaning probably then that troops not from proper Germany were a minimal minority of all forces. And for those states in Western Europe, the protest in Paris mentioned “employment and freedom of the press”, but not conscription. So like expected, Germany treats the Western Europeans better lamo. Relations were already getting strained between then even before the crisis in Afrika. It presumably avoid it to make it not go and develop even worse, since the governments were already said to be precarious.

For France, yeah. François can try, I guess. But it’s not really going to work out for them. The closest I thought I remembered was when François, maybe, got some sympathy after he was once himself present for a tragedy. I thought that could be a chance to at least get people feeling bad for him. Even if really they still don’t like him or the monarchy in general. But checking back, it’s the opposite of how that’s seen apparently lol

1955
———
June 11th - In North France, a catastrophic crash occurs during the 24 Hours Le Mans race, the fourth round of the 1955 FIA World Sports Car Championship. Pierre Levegh, the driver for Mercedes-Benz, strikes an embankment and his car flies into spectator stands, exploding and killing 83. Almost 180 more are injured. The disaster shakes motor racing, previously regarded as the Mitteleuropa’s premier sport, and Mercedes-Benz does not compete again until 1989. The fact that King François III attended the race is viewed by many French nationalists as a jinx.

For the Cold War, yeah. If we take it to mean “global influence”, it seems that Germany has quite seen a decline. Although apparently they are still acting like a “world police”, it’s probably closer to OTL USA adventurism. Not like something as prominent as their largest periods of influence globally, post both the wars. Although by that standard I think the Empire didn’t “win” either lol. And if we use the standard of quality of life for the average citizen, it’s probably better than if they tried to strain themselves and keep their significance and prestige in place

 

[zenphoenix]

For the "Cold War," I think everyone lost. Sure, Germany's global influence has taken a hit, but Canada's authoritarian democratic model has collapsed too.

Also, what's the status of the old Belgian government in exile? I assume it dissolved at some point?

 

[Superdark33]

If Ireland can play nice with Canadian overlordship, eastern Europe can play nice with the German one.

 

[Quaehaer]

For the "Cold War," I think everyone lost. Sure, Germany's global influence has taken a hit, but Canada's authoritarian democratic model has collapsed too.

Also, what's the status of the old Belgian government in exile? I assume it dissolved at some point?

For Belgium, I think that probably the old government in exile reconsiled with the new Flanders-Wallonian government in the time after 1983 and the liberalization of Mittleuropa. It’s kind of a similar situation with the OTL governments in exile in Eastern Europe. When the Soviet bloc reformed in OTL, the old governments in exile did later declare that their purpose of exile (in this case, a democratic state without their being any unwilling Soviet influence) had been achieved. And they then so recognized the national government (and in cases like Belarus where the democracy first only jad a short period, then a dictatorship reemerged, the government in exile actually reestablished itself)

The purpose of the Belgian government of exile is to proclaim that Belgian as a state does not have a monarchy that it wants, and is not a democratic state. This was both definitely true after WK1. The first stopped being true after WK2, with the people coming to respect Adalbert for the same reason they respected Albert in WK1

The end of the 1940s brought political changes elsewhere in the world. In Mitteleuropa, the House of Hohenzollern was shaken by the death of Adalbert of Flanders and Wallonia. The third son of Wilhelm II and the younger brother of Wilhelm III, Adalbert had been appointed the unenviable task of ruling over the Belgian remnant in the aftermath of the Weltkrieg.

Initially resistant to their new German king, the dual kingdoms came to admire and appreciate their monarch for his stalwart resistance to the Commune invasion during the Syndicalist War. Although the defense of the Low Countries was doomed almost from the outset, Adalbert insisted on leading his military's brave delaying actions, buying time for hundreds of thousands of his subjects to evacuate into Germany. Even when the Syndicalists announced they would execute any monarch who fell into their hands, Adalbert remained at his palace until the last possible moment. When the King returned to Flanders Wallonia at the head of the liberating German armies, he was greeted as a hero, and his death was widely mourned. His son and heir, Prince Wilhelm, announced he would take the regnal name Adalbert in honor of his father.

In Germany, the death of his younger brother was a heavy blow to the ailing Wilhelm III. For the German people, Adalbert’s passing was proof that the Kaiser himself wouldn’t last forever. Wilhelm’s sons, his putative successors, were the grandchildren of the great Weltkrieg Kaiser Wilhelm II, and the great-great grandchildren of the founder of the German Empire, Wilhelm I. As the years went by, the current Hohenzollern dynasty drifted further and further away from these titans. While the German royal family looked down on the ‘modern monarchy’ of the British Empire with a mix of sympathy and condescension, they were little aware that a time might be coming where they could no longer rely on their own people’s automatic deference.

The funeral of Adalbert I. His service on behalf of the people of Flanders and Wallonia did much to transform the dual monarchy from foreign imposition to national institution, and secured the position of his son, Adalbert II.​

The people now have come to legitimately respect the monarchy. This still left the clear issues that came with being “aligned” within the German client system of Mittleuropa. Now after liberalization, this also isn’t an issue. Which means the old government in exile can reconcile with the official national government

 

[JodelDiplom]

For the "Cold War," I think everyone lost. Sure, Germany's global influence has taken a hit, but Canada's authoritarian democratic model has collapsed too.

Also, what's the status of the old Belgian government in exile? I assume it dissolved at some point?

Dead and forgotten in a syndicalist secret police cell

 

[J_Master]

Albert would probably still be looked upon with a very high degree of respect, since he did the same thing that Adalbert did, take charge of the army in a time of need and lead it from the front. The rest of the government in exile would be forgotten, relics of a time gone by and a country never really representing the interests of the Flemish and Wallonians. If it was established at all. France wouldn't do it, they themselves were defeated, the British might have, but accepting German continental hegemony at the end of WKI might have included the dissolution of any government in exile.

Wait, when did Flanders and Wallonia reunite?

edit: nvm, they didn't. Belgium would just become a relic of the past. Since the Netherlands is also a part of Mitteleuropa, with time, a reunification movement might gain steam, especially since both countries would be dominated by their eastern neighbor and together they might make a bigger fist against the German hegemony. For the same reason, Wallonia might do the same with France

 

[Quaehaer]

Albert would probably still be looked upon with a very high degree of respect, since he did the same thing that Adalbert did, take charge of the army in a time of need and lead it from the front. The rest of the government in exile would be forgotten, relics of a time gone by and a country never really representing the interests of the Flemish and Wallonians. If it was established at all. France wouldn't do it, they themselves were defeated, the British might have, but accepting German continental hegemony at the end of WKII might have included the dissolution of any government in exile.

Wait, when did Flanders and Wallonia reunite?

edit: nvm, they didn't. Belgium would just become a relic of the past. Since the Netherlands is also a part of Mitteleuropa, with time, a reunification movement might gain steam, especially since both countries would be dominated by their eastern neighbor and together they might make a bigger fist against the German hegemony. For the same reason, Wallonia might do the same with France

Yeah, Flanders and Wallonia are in an interesting situation after WK2. They are still refered there to as "Flanders-Wallonia" specifically, showing the states as entities are still one kind of political combined body. And we know they still share the same King. But aside from that, they are shown as two independent nations. I would guess this probably could be a circumstance resembling Austria-Hungary after the 1937 Ausgleich. Where the empire was still de facto "there" together, and they both had the same monarch of course. But aside from that the two were practically independent and working separate politically and diplomatically .

 

[AbroadFalcon1]

For the "Cold War," I think everyone lost. Sure, Germany's global influence has taken a hit, but Canada's authoritarian democratic model has collapsed too.

Also, what's the status of the old Belgian government in exile? I assume it dissolved at some point?

I would everyone won rather than lost or alternatively that the Cold War is only on pause.
At the end of the AAR the Entente is split between the Anglosphere and the Medientente. The Medientente seems like a powerful Southern France led regional alliance. The Imperial French only lost their inner Northern African territory which doesn’t seem to be much of a loss anyway. As for the Anglosphere they are a economic giant, it’s not like they lost the Cold War and have lost their power instead they have power but choose not to use it, their main loss was the Dominion if India but judging by how much of America is in the Anglosphere and the existence of Australiasia it can be said that whilst it was a major loss it didn’t prevent them from doing anything they couldn’t do before.

Meanwhile Germany lost Mittelafrika but has kept hold of Mittleeuropa which if anything seems like a win. Mittelafrika was always a international embarrassment for them due all the atrocities Göring committed in his mission to ‘civilise’ Africa and any recourse that it gave Germany can still be gained from the successor states of Mittelafrika. In the long run maintaining Mittleeuropa as a place were German companies can export to and as a buffer zone to the German mainland keeps Germanise place as the most powerful nation in Europe, Germany also gained Texas and maybe the AUS in its sphere during the 3ACW which has greatly increased its reach.

So in the end neither Germany or the Empire really lost the Cold War if anything they won from it both shedding of their worst aspects (Dominion if India and its caste system and , the Authoritarianism of both the Empire and Germanise society and Mittelafrika and the mess that was) both transformed into proper democracies with liberal economies which usually a guarantee of long term stability. However both sides are as if 1990 essentially equal maybe with a edge to the Anglosphere

 

[annsan]

I would everyone won rather than lost or alternatively that the Cold War is only on pause.
At the end of the AAR the Entente is split between the Anglosphere and the Medientente. The Medientente seems like a powerful Southern France led regional alliance. The Imperial French only lost their inner Northern African territory which doesn’t seem to be much of a loss anyway. As for the Anglosphere they are a economic giant, it’s not like they lost the Cold War and have lost their power instead they have power but choose not to use it, their main loss was the Dominion if India but judging by how much of America is in the Anglosphere and the existence of Australiasia it can be said that whilst it was a major loss it didn’t prevent them from doing anything they couldn’t do before.

Meanwhile Germany lost Mittelafrika but has kept hold of Mittleeuropa which if anything seems like a win. Mittelafrika was always a international embarrassment for them due all the atrocities Göring committed in his mission to ‘civilise’ Africa and any recourse that it gave Germany can still be gained from the successor states of Mittelafrika. In the long run maintaining Mittleeuropa as a place were German companies can export to and as a buffer zone to the German mainland keeps Germanise place as the most powerful nation in Europe, Germany also gained Texas and maybe the AUS in its sphere during the 3ACW which has greatly increased its reach.

So in the end neither Germany or the Empire really lost the Cold War if anything they won from it both shedding of their worst aspects (Dominion if India and its caste system and , the Authoritarianism of both the Empire and Germanise society and Mittelafrika and the mess that was) both transformed into proper democracies with liberal economies which usually a guarantee of long term stability. However both sides are as if 1990 essentially equal maybe with a edge to the Anglosphere

Demographics and geography are on the side of the Anglosphere IMO. But they are even more on the side of China in the longer longer term

 

[AbroadFalcon1]

Demographics and geography are on the side of the Anglosphere IMO. But they are even more on the side of China in the longer longer term

China is the America of this timeline a massive country protected by geography with a huge amount a people and recourses it’s undoubtedly going to be the worlds superpower by the 2010s/2020s

 

[annsan]

China is the America of this timeline a massive country protected by geography with a huge amount a people and recourses it’s undoubtedly going to be the worlds superpower by the 2010s/2020s

Agreed but your timeline is too soon. 2100. Having Japan next door is a big problem for China but in the long term China will overwhelm Japan’s crappy Otaku demographics. Crown Atomic world will end up like ours with a rich but small West vs a poor but numerous China. As China is democratic in this TTL they will probably reach a peaceful coexistence

 

[Superdark33]

Populations cimpared to OTL are radically different since the centers of Empires are different and theres no default Immigrant Attractor (ie otl USA) taking in the tens of millions of displaced people per year.
And thats without taking into account the wars!



Overall, there is no one Superpower and there wouldnt be.
The dynamics would change from "The Three Factions" to "The Big Four" once China starts catching up and involving itself in Africa or with latin american countries that only deal with the Anglos because they never had any other option, maybe even India if theres any left that wasnt taken by the influence of Japan/Germany.
(Additionaly, the African Union that might happen could also find its way into being a power of its own, but that might take until 2020-2030)


In the end, the powers have no choice but reconcile with each other. China and Germany (IE Europe) are already chummy, the Anglos should be so as well if they dont fall into yet another Authoritarianism Strongman rule, and Japan isnt special so they arent going to remain closed and militaristic for too long.

 

[Casko]

Demographics and geography are on the side of the Anglosphere IMO. But they are even more on the side of China in the longer longer term

it might seem that way at first yes, but we have to remember, that there has not been an exodus of population to Americas and other Anglo countries caused by WW2. and the American population as a whole has been stricken by 2 civil wars in living memory, thus devastating the population further in former USA.

And China will most likely get to the top, as it is somewhat destined to do so, yet it still has separatist warlords, and Japan to contend with. And while yes, Japanese population is always smaller than Chinese, it hasn't been devastated by WW2, or seem to have as bad demographic aging happening yet compared to OTL. so that evens things out, even if slightly.

The dynamics would change from "The Three Factions" to "The Big Four"

Don't you mean Big Five? with Anglo, Germans, Russians, Chinese, and either Japan or French?
After all, Russia has been a rising star in geopolitics anew.

 

[Superdark33]

Don't you mean Big Five? with Anglo, Germans, Russians, Chinese, and either Japan or French?
After all, Russia has been a rising star in geopolitics anew.

Global Three:
Germany (with europe, Indonesia, the and most of the middle east)
Anglo (with its latin american allies and the scattering of other spherelings)
Japan (and its pacific empire)


Regional Big Fellas:

China is currently not global, but can deffo become one after taking in the colonial scraps of india, africa (ie subverting the french attempted puppets, supporting the fledging former mittelafricans that arent on good terms with anyone etc). Japan will definatly compete for these, but since the struggle is more economic than military, its more fair than it otherwise couldve been.


Russia isnt much of a global power as well, its mostly a regional partner with Germany. However, its position among the top 4 in europe allows it to influence the world at large through its dealing with Germany, which is nothing to sneeze at.
(Same goes to Scandinavia and a potential unified France)

South France: its gradually losing power and influence over its own territory and allies. They are on a smooth crash down and nothing of value will be lost.

Amerosul is a borderline global power, depending on how the red groups in the congo turn out.
If they manage to keep them together, they could deffo be a formiddable force, otherwise they are limited to their conteinent (which is still impressive).

 

[Maximus101]

You say Republican movements would overtake, but isn't pseudo-democratic ways also a German institution pushed there? atleast with the way Poland had its "Eternal Regency" system. So I'd argue that rather than Republican, some could easily go full on "Revive the National Spirit" Ultra-Nationalist as well. But I digress.

Republican as in non-monarchical. Especially since there's no really strong institution. The only monarchs they may survive are those that managed to separate themselves enough from the German system, which given how the governments seem to take their marching orders from Berlin may be difficult.

If anything Germans might be forced to keep up a forced Mitteleurope to not be surrounded by foes on both sides without proper buffer states to guard German lands.

I can see that happening, continuing to prop up authoritarian governments. This won't endear Germany to them, and the tighter Germany grips the more countries they alienate. In the long run it'll keep damaging them.

e only thing where there might be some leniency is for the worst of the drafting. Germany seemed to specifically avoid trying to draft (for Afrika) from any of the puppet states. There were mentions of troops from Eastern European states, particularly Ukraine.

The numbers are vague, so it is hard to know. It is also to know if they are not included because the German military and establishment were trying to downplay how bloody the war was.

If Ireland can play nice with Canadian overlordship, eastern Europe can play nice with the German one.

They have not been remotely the same.

The Canadians have gone out of their way to accommodate the Irish, allowing the Irish to be in control, putting Northern Ireland under southern Irish catholic control, making all accommodations with the Catholic Church, and Elizabeth even married an Irish American. Add onto that the generally good economic situation. Even with this there is still the New IRA, so not all got over it.

Germany has not done anything similar, in fact German politicians still seem to hold Non-German eastern Europeans in contempt.

The Canadians placated enough of the Irish population to lessen the issue, German has been trying to beat them into submission.

Meanwhile Germany lost Mittelafrika but has kept hold of Mittleeuropa which if anything seems like a win.

We actually don't know that yet.

----

In regards to the superpower and great power question I guess it depends on the definition. Military? Cultural? Economic?

When it comes to military the Anglosphere, Germany and Japan probably are the top. THey likely spend more as a % on their military.

Culturally I think the world is very stratified, no one language took a big lead. German was more widespread but their chauvinistic attitude probably turned people off. I think there is no global pop culture really, just important in respective countries and spheres.

Economically, well I have my prior speculations, but I think China and Russia and up there with the others, maybe even surpassing some of them. They just don't spend as much on their militaries and don't use the military they have to hit others. I think Russia is like a combo of histroical Canada and post WWII Germany, rich but staying out of the way.

I ignored Amerosul because the place has been dark for a while.

 

[annsan]

Can we expect anymore updates?

 

[AbroadFalcon1]

Can we expect anymore updates?

This story ended a while ago, the latest update was just to clarify some things about the state of the world so I don’t expect new updates to come quickly if at all.

 

[CaptainAlvious]

This story ended a while ago, the latest update was just to clarify some things about the state of the world so I don’t expect new updates to come quickly if at all.

What about further postscript updates for the rest of the world? I think @cookfl said he was working on the final world map of this AAR.