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CK3 Dev Diary #5 - Schemes, Secrets and Hooks

Greetings, dear would-be kings and queens!

I’m Voffvoffhunden (also known as Petter on the discord or even in private life), one of the game’s content designers. Most people probably haven’t seen me around a lot, since I’ve been working on CK3 in secret since the release of HoI4. It’s been a long journey, but it’s been fun to see the game develop and grow over time, and it’s even more fun now that we get to talk about it to all of you! Today, said talking will be about a handful of new features that together cover some of the most important parts of the Crusader Kings experience. So where better to start than with murder?

We’ve all been there. A united Scandinavia is within your grasp, if only it hadn’t been for your meddling siblings! In CK2, these kinds of problems were handled with the gentle application of the “Murder Plot”, as it was popularly called. That system has been expanded and replaced with our brand new Scheme system!

For Crusader Kings 3, we wanted a system that was slightly easier to predict while keeping it unreliable in its outcome, so that murder remains an… option, rather than a safe bet. We also wanted to reduce the number of agents that you need, to make it more valuable to focus on a few candidates close to the victim, rather than having to send messengers with bags of gold to every single courtier and vassal in the land.

All this is achieved through our new Scheme system, where you can use target a character with a Scheme in accordance with your plans, recruit Agents, build up your Scheme Success Chance, and finally achieve your goal. I’ll try to illustrate how it all works by referring to that most iconic of all Schemes: Murder.

ongoing murder scheme USABLE.PNG



By now, the progress bar might have caught your eye. Each month, a Scheme has a chance of progressing one step, with the odds determined by the Owner’s Scheme Power, and the Target’s Scheme Resistance. These two values are based on the relevant Skill (Intrigue in the case of Murder) but are also affected by Spymasters (in the case of Intrigue-type schemes), various modifiers, and of course - the Owner’s Agents. The closer a Murder Scheme’s Agents are to the Target (and the better their Intrigue), the more Scheme Power they add.

Once the Scheme has progressed 10 steps, it tries to execute. The chance of a successful outcome is determined by the Scheme’s Success Chance (which has a slightly different set of modifiers to Scheme Power), while its Secrecy is used to check whether you are discovered or not when you try to execute.

If you’ve gathered capable agents and you’re lucky enough to not get caught, that inheritance will be as good as yours!

As the Scheme's Owner, you are protected from discovery until you actually attempt to execute your scheme. This protection does not extend to your agents, however! And being discovered as a participant in a murder plot is rarely good for one’s reputation, or for one’s habit of seeing sunlight every day.

It is worth noting that when the existence of a Scheme is discovered in this way, its chance of success drops significantly, as the appointed victim makes every preparation possible to foil your plans.

On the other hand, perhaps you’re just not the murderous type? Thankfully the Scheme system is so flexible that it can be used for all manner of long-term interactions. On the opposite end of the spectrum, Seduction makes a return as a Scheme. Seduce does not use Agents in the way Murder does, and it’s not dangerous in the same way… unless your target happens to be married, that is. Achieving success - determined by things such as your skill at seduction, their sexual preference, and whether you get along whatsoever - can net you a new Lover.
I know where your minds are going at that thought, and yes - it’s a great way of acquiring Agents for your Murder Scheme!

Sway is another returning favourite that’s now a Scheme. Sway also doesn't use Agents but largely relies on your Diplomacy instead. It simply progresses towards its execution and then checks whether you successfully improve their opinion or not. Then it loops around and starts over, building up the target’s opinion of you until you stop it -- or commit some horrible diplomatic faux pas...

To add to the convenience, all characters can run one Hostile Scheme (such as murder) and one Personal Scheme (such as Seduction or Sway) at the same time. Unfortunately, you can only target a given character with a single scheme at a time, so you won’t be able to both murder and seduce the same person, just to see which one pays off sooner. You have to do one after the other.

Now, as I indicated earlier, trying to murder someone is usually illegal. (Fun fact: according to Paradox’s legal department this is also the case in real life.) However, if you’re not discovered when you do it, you’re off the hook, right? Not so! Let me introduce you to something that will change the way you nervously glance over your shoulder forever: Secrets!

hooks and secrets USABLE.PNG



Characters can acquire Secrets when they do something that is frowned upon or outright illegal. You want to keep your own Secrets close to your chest, while it can be of great benefit to uncover the Secrets of others. By sending your Spymaster to… well, spy, it’s possible to find out what is going on with your annoying vassals, your threatening neighbour, or even at your own court!

So what do you do when you discover a Secret? One possible course of action is to expose it for the world to see, of course! This will apply various effects depending on how serious the Secret is. Being the King’s secret lover will cause a scandal, being a Secret Deviant will leave you with the Deviant trait, while being exposed as a secret murderer is exactly the excuse your Liege has been waiting for to throw you in the dungeon. Not to mention those horrible Kinslaying penalties (“Hey, they’re my family, and I choose what to do with them, okay?”).

The other possible course of action ties into our new evolution of CK2’s Favors. This is now a generalised system called “Hooks”, which come in various flavours. Favors is one of these, while another might represent the loyalty that a House member owes to the House Head.

A Hook is used to force characters to do what you want them to, such as accepting marriage offers, changing your Feudal Contract, or forcing them to join your Scheme as an Agent…

forcing prince bishop to accept USABLE.png



There are Weak and Strong Hooks, where weak Hooks are used up once expended, while Strong Hooks only get a cooldown, ready to be used again later. The source of a Hook determines its strength, and the strongest Hooks come from Blackmailing someone over their most horrible secrets…

blackmail over incest USABLE.PNG



You might want to keep hold of a Hook once you have it, though, rather than spending it. Having a Hook on someone can prevent them from taking hostile actions towards you -- particularly useful when dealing with pesky vassals. Be warned, however. While having a strong Blackmail Hook on someone really gives you the upper hand, it will be lost if the Secret you are blackmailing over is exposed.

There are many types of Schemes, Secrets and Hooks in the game, and while it would be entirely possible to list them all, I think it would be way more fun for you to gradually discover them through future dev diaries or once the game is released.

Hopefully, it’s clear by now how everything I have talked about hangs together. Maybe you want to murder someone, so you need some Agents. However, no one wants to join, so you dig for Secrets that can be converted into Blackmail Hooks. Meanwhile, you’re running a Personal Scheme (such as Sway) to increase another potential Agent’s opinion of you, so that you can convince them that -- yes, their Liege really is that bad.

But what if everyone hates you (on account of all the murderin’) and you’re unable to find a single blackmail-worthy speck of dirt on anyone?

Well, in Crusader Kings 3 there might be something you can do about that…

Fabricate Hook teaser USABLE.PNG
 

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Do plots always have a single target? Is it possible to change the opinion of a person toward another (not us)? This is commonly done by manipulative personalities, putting people one against the other
 
Not sure if asked yet but:

Is it possible for multiple AI characters to have hooks into you each push you do do something that contradicts the other? Like each wants your heir to marry someone different?

Also, what happens when two characters each knows major secrets of the other? Does one just take turns moving the other to their bidding?
 
Yeah, Legal is ALWAYS trying to stop my plots!
Tell them you won't be blackmailed! :p
Ooooh, this one would be very controversial. Some players like the vagueness, and some players absolutely hate not knowing exact dates of durations...
Sounds like a possible Game Rule to me! :)
 
Final question, can the exact date of effects be masked with a descriptive text?

ie: “until 17 March 1145” to “for some time” or “for a generation” etc?
Ooooh, this one would be very controversial. Some players like the vagueness, and some players absolutely hate not knowing exact dates of durations...

I never realized I wanted this, until I read it.

PLEASE consider the suggestion! It would be a great boost to immersion, and you could probably enhance it by making the precise date show up in a tooltip when hovering over the approximation. This way you get both a much more immersive text flow and people who want the numerical details can still see them. (Optionally, you could make it a, well, option, to always display the precise dates instead... but that would be overhead, I think.)
 
Now, that plotting speed, success chance and discovery chance are handled by separate values it would be a shame not to let us make use of them by giving us variations of the same plot. E.g. with murder plots you could be able to focus on speed by sacrificing your chance to stay hidden (essentially walking up to the target with a few collaborators and stabbing them in broad daylight) or you could use methods that are less risky but also slower and less reliable (letting loose a particularly large and aggressive wild boar in the target's favorite hunting forest), etc.

Also being protected from discovery as the leader of a plot sounds terrible, gamey and makes no sense at all. Scheming should be dangerous and as a target you should be able to eleminate a plot completely before having to survive an assassination attempt (even if the success chances get lowered). I can see this generating a lot of frustration in the future with players getting killed by 5% plots done by terrible schemers without any way to do anything about it.

Otherwise, the system looks great. So far this is the most promising DD yet.
 
This doesn't sound very realistic.

X : "Hey man. I want to murder a guy, join my plot or I'ill say to everyone that you love men".

Y : "Fine. I have just learned your secret. I can screw your plot too".

X : " 1 - 1 = 0 so you owe me nothing and I owe you nothing. :oops:"

+ Why the secret is destroyed after blackmailing? A plotter is never to be trusted and the "1 - 1 = 0" doesn't work everytime. A secret may be heavier than another, one can give you opinion malus and the other may get you arrested.
 
I hope when we get to the Dev Diary on Laws and Law enforcement, we'll see an answer to all of this...murderous behavior you're proposing.

An example from CK2 from several years back that had me utterly amazed. I don't know if the Emperor of the HRE was running Gavelkind or Primo, but he had five healthy boys.

A Count had them all murdered one right after the other. None of the deaths were accidental, or suspicious. The Count had been caught each and every time, but, even though this Count was a Known Murderer, five times over, no one ever did anything.

He wasn't arrested, and the Emperor didn't even revoke his county.

Now, both were AI-run, and I have to ask, was the Emperor forced to sit on his hands through the whole thing because of the much-dreaded tyranny malus?

If so, there should be clear exceptions to this.

Anyone who kills all the Ruler's heirs, and is caught doing so,should be subject to the most hideous penalties, no matter his, or her, status...

This might also make playing a scheming son of a cuss just a little more dangerous for the average player...
 
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Prolly late to the question party, but if I'm understanding this correctly I think these hooks pretty much act as a blank cheque in regards to what you can be forced to do? Is it possible to refuse when someone tries to use a hook on you(with the result that the secret you got blackmailed over coming out or whatever is a logical consequence of refusing to follow a hook)? Or we get a message that someone wants to blackmail you, and if you decide to give in the blackmailer can do anything and everything he wants with said hook without giving you any say in it?
Basically, if give in to blackmail, is it still possible to refuse later on it the thing that is being asked of you is too revolting?(say, murdering your best friend or marrying off your daughter who's also your heir)
 
Ooooh, this one would be very controversial. Some players like the vagueness, and some players absolutely hate not knowing exact dates of durations...
It being moddable would please both ;)
 
To add to the convenience, all characters can run one Hostile Scheme (such as murder) and one Personal Scheme (such as Seduction or Sway) at the same time. Unfortunately, you can only target a given character with a single scheme at a time, so you won’t be able to both murder and seduce the same person, just to see which one pays off sooner. You have to do one after the other.
Let's start plotting our liege's demise, or at least trying to become friends with them.
 
I think this all looks great, so far! The only real critique I have is that I find the term "Hooks" rather off-putting. I've thought so from the very beginning and thought I'd warm up to it but that's yet to happen. I feel like something like "Leverage", as suggested earlier in the thread, would work better but we'll see!
 
Sway is another returning favourite that’s now a Scheme. Sway also doesn't use Agents but largely relies on your Diplomacy instead. It simply progresses towards its execution and then checks whether you successfully improve their opinion or not. Then it loops around and starts over, building up the target’s opinion of you until you stop it -- or commit some horrible diplomatic faux pas...
Is "Antagonize" also a Scheme?
 
Can hooks be made up and be believed if its done by highly influential characters? Also vice versa, no one believing another character if they have a lying reputation and an open dislike for the character they are talking about?
 
Definite improvements over the too simple CK2 plots I'd say. Maaaybe a little bit too game-y still, what with the progress bar and such, but making it more complicated (double-agents? Counter-plots? Hidden progress and effects? etc.) probably wouldn't have been appreciated by too many people, and least of all the AI ^^ We'll see how it plays out in actual gameplay.