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Jul 31, 2018
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Hey guys!

This is actually my third thread about improvement on the Caucasus. From my second thread, I actually got a lot of feedback that I didn't propose "enough" provinces to represent the violent region. I try to improve on this, my last two threads I mainly focuses on Circassia, which is my favorite nation. However, I do things differently this time.

I expanded my suggestion to touch the southern states of Caucasus and a little of East Anatolia. I also try to focus on map changes instead of detailed suggestion like ideas and missions. So without further ado:

My Proposal
mlIh5ZN.jpg


North Caucasus:
I split the existing Circassia nation into 9 provinces and 7 nations:
  1. Tribe of Shapsugs (Tribal Monarchy)
    • Tuapse Province (1/1/1)
    • Circassia Culture
    • Animist Religion
    • Historical Rival of Abazin
  2. Tribe of Zichia (Tribal Monarchy)
    • Adyghe Province (1/1/1)
    • Circassia Culture
    • Orthodox Religion
    • Have a core on Martega (Genoa)
    • Modified the size a bit to cut Adyghe from Crimea Khanate
  3. Tribe of Abazin (Tribal Monarchy)
    • Abazin Province (1/1/1)
    • Circassia Culture
    • Animist Religion
    • Historical Rival of Shapsugs
    • Have a core on Tuapse
  4. Tribe of Karachay (Tribal Monarchy)
    • Karachay Province (1/1/1)
    • Turkic Culture
    • Sunni Religion
    • Historical Friend of Balkaria
    • Vassal of Kabardia
  5. Tribe of Balkaria (Tribal Monarchy)
    • Balkaria Province (1/1/1)
    • Turkic Culture
    • Sunni Religion
    • Historical Friend of Karachay
    • Vassal of Kabardia
  6. Tribe of Alania (Tribal Monarchy)
    • Alania Province (1/1/1)
    • Alania Culture *New
    • Orthodox Religion
    • Vassal of Kabardia
  7. Duchy of Kabardia (Despotic Monarchy)
    • Province List (Clockwise):
    • Temirgoy Province (2/3/2)
    • Besleney Province (1/2/1)
    • Kabardia Province (1/1/2) *Capital
    • Vassal: Karachay, Balkaria & Alania - as historical records that those three tribes exclusively do trades to Kabardia
    • Could start as tributary of Great Horde

East Caucasus:
I split the existing Dagestan province into Dagestan Province (Landlocked) and Derbent (Coastal)
Khunzia and Terek also splitted into Terek, Khunzakh, Vainakh and Avaria.
I actually suggested to change "Dagestani" culture to "Avars" culture but it's not that important
The nations are:

  1. Duchy of Gazikumukh
    • Start with Tarki and Lakia, provinces development buffed to maintain vassal
    • Culture and Religion doesn't change
    • Have Avaria and Karakaitag (Dagestan) as Vassal
    • Could start as tributary of Great Horde
  2. Duchy of Avaria
    • As existing
  3. Tribe of Karakaitag (Tribal Monarchy)
    • Dagestan Province (1/1/2)
    • Vassal of Gazikumukh
  4. Duchy of Shirvan
    • Derbent province should have boosted development as it was very compact and Islamic center of learning in northern Caucasus (2/3/2) is my suggestion. Also to make up the loss of Shaki
  5. Duchy of Shaki
    • As existing
    • Independent
  6. Tribe of Dido (Tribal Monarchy)
    • Dido Province (1/1/1)
    • Dagestani Culture
    • Sunni Religion
    • Independent

South Caucasus:

  1. Trebizond
    • Split into two provinces: Trebizond (as existing) and Lezgia (2/1/1) - The eastern one
    • Lezgia will have accepted Georgian culture
    • Actualy, I think both should have Georgian culture. As Trebizond was often nicknamed :principality of Lezgians"
    • Both Provinces are Orthodox
    • Should have historical friend modifier to Kara Koyunlu
    • Modified the provinces to cut off Trezibond from Ottoman, this is based on Historical record when Ottoman had to subjugated Candar to get access to Trebizond (Source: Siege of Trebizond)
  2. Georgia
    • I proposed Georgia to be united at the start, but the west and southern province to be occupied by rebels. This is because the breakup of Georgia happened in 1445. The details will be on revolter spoiler
    • Add new provinces of Sveneti
    • Buff development of Imereti
    • Changed the culture of Abkhazia to Circassia
  3. Candar and Canik
    • Modified Sinop and Canik provinces shape as pictured
    • Added independent Beylik of Canik - which in historical are 5 smaller beyliks loyal to Eretna, 1 on them which is Beylik of Bafra made it through 1440s)
    • Beylik of Canik could start as historical friend or vassal of Candar


Revolter:
eoqljRJ.jpg


  1. Add "Assyrian" core at A1, A2 and A3
    • Change A1 (Mardin) culture to Assyrian
    • Add new A2 province (Nineveh/Hakkari) from Arbil
    • Assign Assyrian culture to A2
    • Change A3 (Urmia) culture to Assyrian
    • Give them all Coptic religion
    • Give them all Assyrian core which give claims to all Mesopotamia
  2. Add Beylik of "Erzincan" core to B (Erzincan) province. The beylik was annexed on 1430s, they should retained the core 15 years later
  3. Occupy C1 and C2 provinces with Samsthke rebels at the start of the game (maybe progress 75% so they would break free in less than 1 year)
  4. Occupy E, F, G, H and J provinces with Imereti rebels at the start of the game (maybe progress also on 75%)
    • Upon independence, they will split into: (Could be event)
    • Principality of Guria (E Province)
    • Kingdom of Imereti (F Province)
    • Principality of Sveneti (G province)
    • Principality of Mingrelia (H province)
    • Imereti's rebelious vassal Principality of Abkhazia (J Province)
  5. Add "Lezgia" core to D (Lezgia) province
  6. I'd spare Georgia from Kartli and Kakethi cores :p

Formable:
DerRlPV.jpg


  1. Kingdom of Circassia
    • Unite all Circassian provinces culture except for Abkhazia
  2. Caucasus Imamate
    • Unite Dagestan, Lakia, Avaria, Dido and Vainakh provinces

What do you guys think?
I'm obviously not an expert, so feel free to discuss.
 
First, add the provinces of Kars.
Secondly: redraw the boundaries of Samtskhe and Imereti
Thirdly :samtskhe should have access to the sea.
Fourthly: split melikates into two parts.

the reworked boundaries should look somewhere like this.
20190626203951_1.jpg


20190626204005_1.jpg
 
Think Assyrian cores should be split into tags based on the assyrian tribes with Assyria being formable
 
Think Assyrian cores should be split into tags based on the assyrian tribes with Assyria being formable

Agreed. Adds a level of difficulty to playing as an Assyrian
 
Think Assyrian cores should be split into tags based on the assyrian tribes with Assyria being formable

I am not sure about this one actually. I always thought they have strong sense of unity because of their history. It's different than, let's say, Circassia, which only united briefly at 1800s. Or am I mistaken?
 
First, add the provinces of Kars.
Secondly: redraw the boundaries of Samtskhe and Imereti
Thirdly :samtskhe should have access to the sea.
Fourthly: split melikates into two parts.

the reworked boundaries should look somewhere like this.
Fair points, I guess I missed a lot on that area.
I'd want to be nitpicking and mentioned that AFAIK, the castle of Kars only rebuilded again in 1500s,so maybe there shouldn't be a castle there?
 
I am not sure about this one actually. I always thought they have strong sense of unity because of their history. It's different than, let's say, Circassia, which only united briefly at 1800s. Or am I mistaken?

Not exactly they are unified relgiously through the bishops and the patriarch but politically they consist of independent tribes for example the Alqosh or the Nochiya this is how they stayed connected in spite of religous schism (Which otherwise would have shattered the ethnic unity).
 
I'm actually working on a new assyria thread, will be out in a few days
The only area I found (from the sources presented in the epic assyria thread and other research I done) to be justified independent Assyrian is The area of southern hakkari wasteland, I haven't honed it to pixel perfect

Spoiler: caucasus

Tha's an interesting map, it looks like an edited version of one of my maps :p

index.php

The interior yellow circle marks the rough area of independent assyrian tribe ACCORDING to 19th century reports, though it seems to project back well in time.


On the rest of caucasus I have my thread so I won't comment further
 
Tha's an interesting map, it looks like an edited version of one of my maps :p
you are right, I was inspired by your proposal but I made a small correction of the boundaries and divided Melikates into two provinces.
 
Fair points, I guess I missed a lot on that area.
I'd want to be nitpicking and mentioned that AFAIK, the castle of Kars only rebuilded again in 1500s,so maybe there shouldn't be a castle there?

I will say that in the province of Kars there is also the city of Ani and the castle represents the fortifications of the City of Ani
 
you are right, I was inspired by your proposal but I made a small correction of the boundaries and divided Melikates into two provinces.

Yeah my map mods are a bit rough around the edges :rolleyes:
 
Not exactly they are unified relgiously through the bishops and the patriarch but politically they consist of independent tribes for example the Alqosh or the Nochiya this is how they stayed connected in spite of religous schism (Which otherwise would have shattered the ethnic unity).
Interesting! Do you have any resource? I am at work right now and when I did quick googling, it only resulted in difference in Aramaic dialect.
 
I'm actually working on a new assyria thread, will be out in a few days
The only area I found (from the sources presented in the epic assyria thread and other research I done) to be justified independent Assyrian is The area of southern hakkari wasteland, I haven't honed it to pixel perfect

From my research, Hakkari and Mardin could be justified of Assyrian culture. Assyrian is only over a quarter of Urmia province's population, but dividing the Urmia province could be a solution :p
 
From my research, Hakkari and Mardin could be justified of Assyrian culture. Assyrian is only over a quarter of Urmia province's population, but dividing the Urmia province could be a solution :p

I said independent Assyria, not assyrian culture ^^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Assyrian_tribes
Click on individual tribes to learn more.
There is also some books in the thread Independent Assyrian tribes by iom8 that talks assyria and some other links but It's quite large to go over.

What source are you using for Urmia's population?
 
First, add the provinces of Kars.
Secondly: redraw the boundaries of Samtskhe and Imereti
Thirdly :samtskhe should have access to the sea.
Fourthly: split melikates into two parts.

the reworked boundaries should look somewhere like this.
Your suggestions are great.

I think Lazia-Lazeti-Lazistan should be moved along Trebizond to same area called Pontus.
 
I think Lazia-Lazeti-Lazistan should be moved along Trebizond to same area called Pontus.
I moved the Lazika provinces to the Pontic area

20190630133912_1.jpg
I strengthened samtskhe with one additional province of Artanuja that has access to the sea.


20190630133608_1.jpg

dd.jpg

I wonder about the division of the Tbilisi province into two. The new province would have the name Tashir and its capital will be the city of Gharakilisa (Vanadzor). and the provincial culture is Armenian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tashir_(historical_region) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadzor
Astara is badly located
As for Shirvan, I will probably give him an additional Lankaran Province.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lankaran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talysh_Khanate
Lankaran was the capital of Talysh Khanate, existing in 1747-1828
 
I moved the Lazika provinces to the Pontic area

View attachment 496132 I strengthened samtskhe with one additional province of Artanuja that has access to the sea.


View attachment 496135

View attachment 496138
I wonder about the division of the Tbilisi province into two. The new province would have the name Tashir and its capital will be the city of Gharakilisa (Vanadzor). and the provincial culture is Armenian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tashir_(historical_region) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadzor
Astara is badly located
As for Shirvan, I will probably give him an additional Lankaran Province.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lankaran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talysh_Khanate
Lankaran was the capital of Talysh Khanate, existing in 1747-1828
Lankaran or Talysh is ok

But I think other minor provinces are not needed atm. Current map is very tinny to add extra provinces in Caucasus. So I think Tashir and Artanuji are irrrlevant. In case of Svaneti I would leave it tho.

Make borders between Lazia and Guria provinces along Coruh river. Lazia was contested between Trebizond, p. of Guria and p. of Samtskhe.

Also add minor Georgian tags. Most importantly Kingdom of Kakheti. Kingdom of Georgia must be formable tag.