Proposed changes in Silesia

[Aramenian]

Proposed changes on the map

The changes consist in a better presentation of Silesia in 1444
1;Duchy of Zagan
-Capital of Zagan
Flag

Ruler Jan II the Mad:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_II_the_Mad
information about the duchy:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Żagań

2;Duchy of Glogow
-Capital of Glogow
Flag

Ruler Henry IX the Elder;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henryk_IX_Starszy
information about the duchy:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Głogów

3;Duchy of Legnica
-Capital of Legnica
Flag

Ruler of Elisabeth of Hohenzollern:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_of_Brandenburg,_Duchess_of_Brzeg-Legnica_and_Cieszyn
information about the duchy:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Legnica

4:Wroclaw
In 1335, after the death of Henryk VI Dobre, after 350 years of reign in Wrocław, Polish princes and kings, the city passed under the rule of Czech kings.
-Wroclaw, property of the Kingdom of Bohemia
There should also be the possibility of freeing the Duchy of Wroclaw
-Capital of Wroclaw
Flag

The coat of arms of the Piast dynasty of Oleśnica until 1492 was identical to the coat of arms of the Duchy of Wroclaw and depicted in the golden field of the black eagle's shield, beak and red claws, with a silver crescent-shaped patch with a silver cross on the inner arch of the patchwork. There are also versions of an eagle without a cross on a loincloth.
The coat of arms of the Oleśnica Piast dynasty (and Wrocław) was the basis for the later German coat of arms of Lower Silesia.


5:Swidnica
In 1392 after Agnieszka's death - a widow of Bolko II - under the treaty of 1353 Swidnica passed into the hands of the Czech kings
-Swidnica, property of the Kingdom of Bohemia
There should also be the possibility of releasing the Duchy of Swidnica
-Capital of Swidnica
Flag



6;Duchy of Opole
-Capital of Opole
Flag

Ruler: Nicholas I of Opole :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_I_of_Opole
information about the duchy:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Opole

7;Duchy of Raciborz
-Capital of Raciborz
Flag

Ruler: Wenceslaus II: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenceslaus_II,_Duke_of_Opava-Ratibor
information about the duchy:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Racibórz
The ruler of Wenceslaus II, comes from the Přemyslid dynasty, which gives us the opportunity to restore Přemyslid to the throne of the Kingdom of Bohemia. It could be connected with the mission tree for Raciborz consisting in regaining the throne of the Kingdom of Bohemia.

Information about Přemyslid dynasty:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Přemyslid_dynasty

Silesian nobility, aristocracy, piasts and dynasties;http://www.arekkp.pl/en_dynastie.html#Hohenzollern

 

[Aramenian]

I updated the thread with newer information

 

[Hawkslime]

Finally the Premyslids would get some love! If only for that reason, I love this suggestion.
The number of tags seems a bit problematic though.
I counted 5 tags that would exist in 1444 as independent vassals. That is 5 diplo-relations for Bohemia, 5x10 base manpower for Bohemia´s vassals, 5 forts that need to be taken care of.

As much as I would like more fragmented Silesia, 3-4 tags seems like a maximum to me (I mean Bohemia starts with 4 diplo relations).
I think either Zagan or Opole needs to go, or Legnica can start annexed and be released via an event chain (king Sigismund annexed it, and the duchy was given to Frederick I in 1455)

I know it is unfortunate, but five vassals for Bohemia aren´t going to happen

 

[Aramenian]

or Legnica can start annexed and be released via an event chain (king Sigismund annexed it, and the duchy was given to Frederick I in 1455)

I agree, if the paradox does not decide on 5 vassals for the kingdom of Czech, it will be possible to resign from the Duchy of Legnica

 

[Aramenian]

is there any chance to introduce proposed changes?
@Caligula Caesar

 

[Me_]

No chance. No standard nation (the Shogun is not standard), unless specifically intended to be harmstrung, will ever be made to start with more than 4 subjects, and even 4 would usually require a tradition of +1 dip relations, simply so that the nation would be able to have at least 1 diplomatic relation decided by player. And even then 4 is rather unlikely, unless there is very good reason for it, with 3 being more reasonable.

Edit: That being said, I think adding at least one could be reasonable as it would mean that Bohemia would have a hard time giving Austria a hard time in the bid for Emperorship. Plus having a nation with Premyslids would be nice for the fans of restoring old dynasties/tags.

 

[Hawkslime]

No chance. No standard nation (the Shogun is not standard), unless specifically intended to be harmstrung, will ever be made to start with more than 4 subjects, and even 4 would usually require a tradition of +1 dip relations, simply so that the nation would be able to have at least 1 diplomatic relation decided by player. And even then 4 is rather unlikely, unless there is very good reason for it, with 3 being more reasonable.

Opole, Zagan, Legnica or all of these will have to be tossed overboard

 

[Me_]

Opole, Zagan, Legnica or all of these will have to be tossed overboard

I guess they could still be releasables.

Edit: Come to think, maybe Bohemia should be intentionally limited. If it started with 5 vassals (with a +1 diplomatic relations tradition), it would pretty much not be able to bid for Emperorship until it would annex at least one and annexing a nation in HRE would lower their standing in a bid for Emperorship. This all would mean that the goal of ensuring strong Austrian position in the Imperial elections in the early game would be achieved even if Austria would lose Tirol (which should be ruled by a separate branch of the Habsburgs).

In conclusion, after more consideration, I think 4 could be ok, with even 5 beaing acceptable. And it would allow for Tirol to be split from Austria.

 

[Hawkslime]

I guess they could still be releasables.

Edit: Come to think, maybe Bohemia should be intentionally limited. If it started with 5 vassals (with a +1 diplomatic relations tradition), it would pretty much not be able to bid for Emperorship until it would annex at least one and annexing a nation in HRE would lower their standing in a bid for Emperorship. This all would mean that the goal of ensuring strong Austrian position in the Imperial elections in the early game would be achieved even if Austria would lose Tirol (which should be ruled by a separate branch of the Habsburgs).

In conclusion, after more consideration, I think 4 could be ok, with even 5 beaing acceptable. And it would allow for Tirol to be split from Austria.

In my opinion Utraquism should become a religion. If Bohemia would start Utraquist, they would have a much harder path to emperorship. I mean this is why Bohemia lost their position in Germany in the first place

 

[Aramenian]

I decided to change a little previous proposal for changes on the map. Here is another proposal for changes on the map

provinces 1 and 2 is the principality of Glogow

the Duchy of Zagan possible to be released
province 3
the duchy of Legnica will either be independent or as a Czech province
province 4 and 5
Wroclaw and Swidnica to the kingdom of Bohemia
province 6
Duchy of Opole
province 7 and 8 to the Duchy of Raciborz
province 8
possible to release the Duchy of Cieszyn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Teschen
the goal was to divide Silesia into two historical regions

Historical boundaries of Silesia with a division into lower silesia (green) and Upper silesia (yellow)
Provinces 1,2,3,4,5 are lower Silesia and provinces 6,7,8 are upper Silesia
I know that 8 provinces are a bit too much, and that there is probably no chance that such changes will come

 

[Aramenian]

several proposals for the division of Silesia

map 1

map 2

map 3

 

[Aramenian]

I wonder
As if to give the kingdom of Bohemia a national modifier of an increased number of diplomatic relations by three, and a modifier of the number of vassal troops in Silesia limiting the number of troops to two thousand, for each Silesian duchy. Additionally, a modifier reducing the independence aspirations of Silesian vassals.
The modifier would disappear after the incorporation of two or three duchies of Silesia
It would give a chance to introduce all six vassals with an army of twelve thousand troops together. Which would not weaken the kingdom of the Bohemia

What do you think about this?

 

[Mr.Grizzly]

The problem with giving +3 relations would be that they'd have 7 relation slots and even if we gave Bohemia all 5 suggested duchies they'd have 2 slots left for alliances. While other nations who have lots of vassals usually only have +1 relations such as Burgundy or don't even get anything such as Muscovy. On top of that if the idea of limiting the duchies to an army size of 2 units, playing these nations would almost become impossible as even the difficult OPMs can build up to 5 units, more than double the Silesian duchies. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see all 5 of your duchies added but I don't think it'd work. Perhaps keep the provinces but just give them 4 vassals and change one of their NIs to +1 Diplomatic Relations?

 

[Aramenian]

The problem with giving +3 relations would be that they'd have 7 relation slots and even if we gave Bohemia all 5 suggested duchies they'd have 2 slots left for alliances. While other nations who have lots of vassals usually only have +1 relations such as Burgundy or don't even get anything such as Muscovy. On top of that if the idea of limiting the duchies to an army size of 2 units, playing these nations would almost become impossible as even the difficult OPMs can build up to 5 units, more than double the Silesian duchies. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see all 5 of your duchies added but I don't think it'd work. Perhaps keep the provinces but just give them 4 vassals and change one of their NIs to +1 Diplomatic Relations?

I wondered about the 6 vassals. It would be connected with the lack of places for alliances with other states
map with division into 6 Silesian duchies

by reducing the number of vassals to four, it would look like this.

I think even those 4 vassals are enough

The question is whether 8 provinces are not too much. Of course, their development may be weaker because after the Hussite wars in the destroyed Silesia, for a long time there was still political and legal chaos,and the population was persecuted by soldiers' bands and so-called. raubritter, or knights of brigands.

 

[Aramenian]

Here is the final proposal for the division of Silesia

Firstly, the number of provinces increased from 4 currently to 8, which is associated with a better representation of Silesia.
Secondly, we start the game with four Silesian Principality. All four principalities are vassals of the Kingdom of Bohemia.
Thirdly, at the start there will be no Duchy of Zagan and the duchy of Legnica, but it will be possible to release them.
-the Duchy of Zagan will be part of the Duchy of Glogow
-The Duchy of Legnica will be part of the Kingdom of Bohemia. Elisabeth Hohenzollern ruled the duchy until 1449 and only after her death the local nobles rebelled and asked the Emperor Sigismund for help, so Sigismund incorporated the duchy into the kingdom of Bohemia.
Fourth, the division of Silesia into two historical regions.

Silesian cities;
1:City of Zagan
produced goods
-iron
2:City of Glogow
produced goods
-wine
3:City of Lenica
produced goods
-glass
4:City of Wroclaw
produced goods
-cloth
5:City of Swidnica
produced goods
-wine
6:City of Opole
produced goods
-grain
7:City of Raciborz
produced goods
-iron
8:City of Cieszyn
produced goods
-grain

 

[Aramenian]

I am trying to make modifications for Silesia but for this I have a long way to go

 

[Mr.Grizzly]

Here is the final proposal for the division of Silesia
View attachment 481184

Firstly, the number of provinces increased from 4 currently to 8, which is associated with a better representation of Silesia.
Secondly, we start the game with four Silesian Principality. All four principalities are vassals of the Kingdom of Bohemia.
Thirdly, at the start there will be no Duchy of Zagan and the duchy of Legnica, but it will be possible to release them.
-the Duchy of Zagan will be part of the Duchy of Glogow
-The Duchy of Legnica will be part of the Kingdom of Bohemia. Elisabeth Hohenzollern ruled the duchy until 1449 and only after her death the local nobles rebelled and asked the Emperor Sigismund for help, so Sigismund incorporated the duchy into the kingdom of Bohemia.
Fourth, the division of Silesia into two historical regions.
View attachment 481198
Silesian cities;
1:City of Zagan
produced goods
-cloth
2:City of Glogow
produced goods
-iron
3:City of Lenica
produced goods
-glass
4:City of Wroclaw
produced goods
-cloth
5:City of Swidnica
produced goods
-wine
6:City of Opole
produced goods
-grain
7:City of Raciborz
produced goods
-iron
8:City of Cieszyn
produced goods
-grain

Looking great! I would only add that Breslau should should become the capital of a united Silesia, from my understanding it was the most developped but I could be wrong/

 

[Aramenian]

Looking great! I would only add that Breslau should should become the capital of a united Silesia, from my understanding it was the most developped but I could be wrong/

Breslau should be the capital of the united Silesia was a very important city. It was here that most of the Silesian princes paid homage to King Jan of Luxembourg

 

[Knoxie00]

I really like this suggestion. It inspired me to do some of my own reading on the topic (and trust me, it's very complex). One change I'd make is have Raciborz be owned by Bohemia, since it was inherited by the crown in 1336, then was inherited by the duke of Opole in 1521, until 1532. This may allow Zagan to be a vassal, especially if Bohemia were to get +1 relationship slot to compensate.

May also be worth giving them a modifier that means they don't get any HRE opinion malus/ diplo rep hit when annexing silesian vassals to represent the inheritance agreement

 

[Aramenian]

I really like this suggestion. It inspired me to do some of my own reading on the topic (and trust me, it's very complex). One change I'd make is have Raciborz be owned by Bohemia, since it was inherited by the crown in 1336, then was inherited by the duke of Opole in 1521, until 1532. This may allow Zagan to be a vassal, especially if Bohemia were to get +1 relationship slot to compensate.

May also be worth giving them a modifier that means they don't get any HRE opinion malus/ diplo rep hit when annexing silesian vassals to represent the inheritance agreement

If I donated Raciborz to the Kingdom of Bohemia, I would lose the interesting possibility of adding the Přemyslid dynasty to the game.

I would expect at least four Silesian duchies.bo this should be very easy to do for the paradox,
and it would be Glogow, Legnica, Raciborz, Opole.
and it would look like this

Spoiler: Silesia

There is only one additional province of Swidnica. The borders of Silesia are improved. Wroclaw (Vratislav) and Swidnica (Svídnice) become the property of the Kingdom of Bohemia

Such a change would be enough for me.