[Submod] Iberian Tweak for 867 - More catholic provinces

[Sunbro BigBoss]

This is a small mod I made for myself and thought I might as well share it.

It does three things:

-Changes the religious and cultural setup of Iberia in the 867 bookmark to better reflect that muslims, at this point, were still not a majority (probably needs a lot more tweaking).

-Renames k_andalusia to Qurtuba when held by an andalusian ruler, since it was the capital and core of the eponymous emirate and caliphate.

-Sets andalusian culture to not use dynastic naming. This is mostly to give them a bit of flavour and set them apart from arabs and berbers.

Pictures:

Spoiler

As for historical accuracy: There's not much consensus on the conversion rate of hispano-romans, and I've hardly found any sources on what ethnicities and religions were predominant in what regions. It seems to be the case that many cities were predominantly muslim while the countryside was heavily christian, and often arabized. I've therefore decided to make the regions of Granada and modern Andalusia along with some major cities (Lisboa, Valencia, Toledo, Zaragoza, Badajoz.. etc) sunni and the rest catholic.
Any suggestions on how to make this more accurate or balanced are welcome.

 

[TheDovahkiin97]

I really like this but also i want someone else to approve this too.
Also how about more portuguese provinces? Or just one at the coast there

 

[Sunbro BigBoss]

Hi, I've thought about adding more non-andalusian provinces on the frontier. A non-trivial part of the peninsula was more latin than arabic, but was neither represented by romance cultures (castillian, portuguese, aragonese, etc) nor by in-game andalusian, which seems to be more arabic than latin.

 

[Sunbro BigBoss]

New version up with 'christian' cultures extending further down, file in the OP.

Spoiler

 

[Knackebrod]

What mapmod did you use in the last screenshot?

 

[Sunbro BigBoss]

I used In Heaven's Graphics overhaul lite with a bit of tinkering to try and make it work with SWMH.

 

[Okdokiecell]

I used In Heaven's Graphics overhaul lite with a bit of tinkering to try and make it work with SWMH.

What does the alternative version do differently?

 

[Sunbro BigBoss]

What does the alternative version do differently?

I edited the .mod file to include HIP as a dependency (meaning, it overwrites HIP's stuff) and deleted the colormaps and ice.dds files. Mountains and steppe are kinda funky, but it looks alright to me.

Spoiler

 

[Smartguy725]

You got a link for the Heaven patch, m8?

Also, any thoughts of cultures for earlier starts?

 

[TheDovahkiin97]

why is saraqusta andalusian and not just muslim?

 

[Sunbro BigBoss]

You got a link for the Heaven patch, m8?

Also, any thoughts of cultures for earlier starts?

I don't know whether I can share someone else's files, in any case the 'patch' is just deleting 3 files and pasting dependencies = {"HIP - Historical Immersion Project"}
onto the .mod file.

why is saraqusta andalusian and not just muslim?

I left Saraqusta andalusian because it would become the capital of one of the major Taifas, and because cities in al-andalus were predominantly muslim and arab (it just so happens that Zaragoza was the northernmost major muslim city). I can make a version with aragonese Saraqusta, if you want.

 

[Sunbro BigBoss]

I've been making three new versions, however I don't know how the recent changes to jizya will impact their balance.
Anyhow, they all essentially tried to do the same, which is to further weaken the Umayyads so that they don't steamroll everyone by moving andalusian to the arabic group and adding even more iberian provinces. Due to the binary nature of cultures in CK2 and the lack of sources on this period, the allocation for each province is mostly speculation on my part.


Mozarabs
This version adds a new culture, the Aljamí (from Al-Ajamiyya or 'foreigners', as arabs would sometimes call the natives) and is mostly a nondescript mixture of romance and arabic/arabized names.

Spoiler

Iberian
This version anachronistically pushes the iberian cultures even further down to represent latin speakers in Al-Andalus, even if it is quite railroad-y and doesn't make much sense to speak of Castillian, Portuguese or Catalan people so far south in this period.

Spoiler

Visigoth
This version moves visigothic to the iberian culture group and is added to the same provinces as the other two versions. Does it make sense to speak of visigoths in this period? It seems many nobles would openly trace their lineage back to pre-islamic iberia, like the Banu Qasi (from Cassius) or al-Quti (Goth), and looking at sources for the Aljamí culture I realized that many names mentioned in them (for example the Martyrs of Cordoba) were essentially hispanorroman and visigothic in nature.

Spoiler

Files in the OP

 

[royal_gryf]

This version moves visigothic to the iberian culture group and is added to the same provinces as the other two versions. Does it make sense to speak of visigoths in this period? It seems many nobles would openly trace their lineage back to pre-islamic iberia, like the Banu Qasi (from Cassius) or al-Quti (Goth), and looking at sources for the Aljamí culture I realized that many names mentioned in them (for example the Martyrs of Cordoba) were essentially hispanorroman and visigothic in nature.

How about adding both Mozarabs and Visigoths? Something like a decision for any independent dynasty with Visigothic heritage and Christian Mozarabs in general to adopt this culture.

Another thing is the name Aljamí, although this is moreso regarding a what if scenario. Let's say the Muslim conquest of Iberia was more complete. If the Caliphate ever lost power would some rulers be inclined to retain a more indigenous culture like in Iran? While Aljamí works under Arab rule I think it would be odd for an independent Aljamí ruler to call themselves as such. Something like "Hispaní" to represent a Muslim "Iberian Renaissance". At least, an option to very slowly flip non-Basque Iberian to Aljamí and then to Andalusí? Like over a period of 300 years at least for a single province to swap once.

Additionally, even though it would be a stretch, would it be possible to include any Amazigh and Sephardi provinces? Not having cultural/religious plurality sucks and given that Amazighs didn't exactly like Arabs and that Cordoba almost became Sephardi dominated I think making 1-2 provinces Amazigh and Sephardi would better represent the diversity (and their potential dominance). Or, just more events that cause them to spawn here and there and a chance to seize power in a Taifa.

 

[Sunbro BigBoss]

How about adding both Mozarabs and Visigoths? Something like a decision for any independent dynasty with Visigothic heritage and Christian Mozarabs in general to adopt this culture.

Another thing is the name Aljamí, although this is moreso regarding a what if scenario. Let's say the Muslim conquest of Iberia was more complete. If the Caliphate ever lost power would some rulers be inclined to retain a more indigenous culture like in Iran? While Aljamí works under Arab rule I think it would be odd for an independent Aljamí ruler to call themselves as such. Something like "Hispaní" to represent a Muslim "Iberian Renaissance". At least, an option to very slowly flip non-Basque Iberian to Aljamí and then to Andalusí? Like over a period of 300 years at least for a single province to swap once.

Additionally, even though it would be a stretch, would it be possible to include any Amazigh and Sephardi provinces? Not having cultural/religious plurality sucks and given that Amazighs didn't exactly like Arabs and that Cordoba almost became Sephardi dominated I think making 1-2 provinces Amazigh and Sephardi would better represent the diversity (and their potential dominance). Or, just more events that cause them to spawn here and there and a chance to seize power in a Taifa.

I've thought about it, but the populations in Al-Andalus were so heterogenous that I don't know how to do it proper justice. I'd have to add arabized christians, romance-speaking muslims, romance-speaking christians, muladi, berbers, saqaliba, jews, arabized jews and full blooded arabs and the ethnic tensions that often plagued the realm, and neither of these populations would've been a clear majority in any province, which I cannot represent in CK2.

And yeah, I chose Aljamí because it is a broad term that can cover several conditions but is not very accurate. Mozarabs were sometimes called mustarab (arabized) and ajamiya (foreigner) by others but AFAIK they called their language latin, and would presumably call themselves latin as well. Hispaní could work as well, although if it is arabized enough it may look more like 'Isbaní' (from Is-Banya).

In the end I think the best way to handle it would be to have baseline cultures and then fill every province with modifiers representing every ethnic enclave and giving certain bonuses or maluses, so you'd for example have a small amazigh community in your province that grows as you become more dependent on foreign manpower, and eventually flips to that culture and maybe revolts to establish its own state.
The only problem is I don't have the skills or time to make this mechanic, which is a shame because it could be used to track minorities across every part of the map and not just Iberia, adding lots of depth.

 

[tahlaskerssen]

This mods only change the religion of the provinces or adds new ones?

Also.. on the original post.. which ones do i have to download? I dont understand

 

[Sunbro BigBoss]

This mods only change the religion of the provinces or adds new ones?

Also.. on the original post.. which ones do i have to download? I dont understand

No new provinces, it just changes their culture/religion. The first file (Iberian_867_Tweak) makes more christian provinces, the second one (Alternative) does the same but also changes some to castillian, leonese, portuguese, catalan etc culture. The next three (Experimental Iberian/Visigoth/Mozarab) move andalusian to the arabic culture group and make most of the peninsula to either native iberian cultures (Experimental Iberian) or to Visigoth (Experimental Visigoth) or to a new 'mozarab' culture I made, which is called Aljamí in-game.

You only have to download 1 of these files, depending on what you want to accomplish. If you want to give christians a small boost then the first or second ones are better for you. If you want to cripple the Umayyads, then the next 3 might be you choice.

 

[tahlaskerssen]

Thanks

 

[tahlaskerssen]

Hi, found a bug.

At least when playing with iberian counts, once i save the game and load again, the dynasty changes completely to a random dynaty with over 2k thousand living members, always the same one.

Banu Ishaq.

I deactivated mod by mod trying to figure out what was causing it and it was your mod. I tried Iberian Tweak alternative, gonna try the most basic one. It was also changing me to "no religion" and "Aljami culture" no matter the start no matter the count.

It inmediate. You start and you can save after 1 month and it happens.

 

[tahlaskerssen]

Update.

It happens to the basic mod as well.

And all your 2k living family members of your "new" are new random generated character from the game.

It happens to only customized characters.

 

[tahlaskerssen]

Lol, when trying to play with a pre set character it wont let you click anywhere on the map wtf.