3rd person?

[IvoryOwl]

I don't enjoy raining on anyone's parade, though I have unintentionally become quite good at it. For those of you who are counting on modding as your last, desperate hope, the answer is maybe.

Modding can only be done on the camera perspective if Hardsuit adds specific tools to allow that kind of modding. Paradox Interactive's official policy is that modding is only legal when it is done through their official tools. Any attempt to hack a .exe belonging to them is illegal under their official policy and you will get banned from this forum if you do it.

They might add tools to allow you to mess with the camera perspective, but they also might not.

In my opinion, if the developers can't or don't want to add a third person perspective then, as a consolation, they should be to give players the tools and means to do it themselves, especially since the game is going to be moddable from the start. It will save them time, money and sales and people will have a chance to get what they want. Win-Win.

 

[Thure]

i hope you're right, from what I've seen I just see some floating hands. At least on those sneak peak videos, but I hope to God you are right, because if there's a model then 3rd person is doable.

Look here around 1:07. For a short moment you can see the shoe of the protagonist

 

[CrimsomAmber]

I don't enjoy raining on anyone's parade, though I have unintentionally become quite good at it. For those of you who are counting on modding as your last, desperate hope, the answer is maybe.

Modding can only be done on the camera perspective if Hardsuit adds specific tools to allow that kind of modding. Paradox Interactive's official policy is that modding is only legal when it is done through their official tools. Any attempt to hack a .exe belonging to them is illegal under their official policy and you will get banned from this forum if you do it.

They might add tools to allow you to mess with the camera perspective, but they also might not.

Hence the petition and requests from people in this forum. If we knew for sure, the tools will there, or if the devs even plan on adding it. This thread would not exist, but thank you for the input.

 

[LordTremere]

Look here around 1:07. For a short moment you can see the shoe of the protagonist

That does offer some insight, but it could be scripted. For example it could be right at the end of a cut scene or a pre-scripted and pre-rendered moment. I hope it's not though, and the model is present. I just wish they would show some real game play.

 

[Sh4ark]

I'm going to borrow your own words here, but what urgency? What suspense? It's just a video game, it's just information your eyes are processing, and your brain trying to make sense of it, all 0s and 1s a mere simulation, that only those privileged enough should experience.

Well, you know.. the ones that kinda separate one game from another..

 

[HeinrichDM]

If it's true that there will be some platform elements, like mirror's edge, i think we'll see body feedback/animatons, also if first person.

 

[Kardo]

Quite frankly I'm not surprised. Most have 0 empathy, when they have not gone through a certain situation, or experience it themselves. There are plenty of people, millions, who suffer from some kind of disability. Color Blindness is an example, yet now a days every game offers a color blind mods, I've mentioned this but some companies, like Microsoft and Disney are working on special controllers and trying to make the their games more accessible, more companies and developers should opt to do the same. And I think pretty soon they will, it's just a matter of time.

Also the community here it's extremely divided, nothing like when CCP had the IP under their belt, I think it has a lot to do with the fact, that most here were not World Of Darkness fans, until paradox brought it over, many I believe are barely hearing of the WOD for the first time. But yeah, when it comes to 3rd person for some reason the intolerance goes up. When people started asking for 1st person in GTA V and the Darkness Within 2 the community supported it, why not give others the option to play how they want? If it doesn't affect the game then why be negative about it? But you know human nature, nothing we can do.

But at least now we have a modders perspective, hopefully like I have been saying, if the devs decide to leave it out a mod will be possible.

Yes, I have zero empathy and have never suffered any sort of disability at all in my life...apparently I also never heard of WoD until two years ago! The things I've learned from this thread about myself are astounding...

I really don't know what argument to make here, the end result always ends up with you screaming how insensitive anyone who disagrees with you. I've tried science, you ignored it, other modders have mentioned the difficulty of adding it in, and you ignored that as well. The only things you don't ignore or attack are the people that agree with you; none of whom have ever personally attacked you.

We've already had developers comment on the issue, and the response to them has been the same. Why bother interacting with your fans when the result is pure vitriol? Especially when now they have supposedly been "shutting down" the argument and "personally attacking" the disabled.

Also, don't bring up the "Golden Days" of CCP's ownership, it was much the same, there is no new "division" of the fanbase; to say nothing over how the beloved MMO was cancelled, or the reception of the (now) Chronicles of Darkness.

 

[Midgar]

Yes, I have zero empathy and have never suffered any sort of disability at all in my life...apparently I also never heard of WoD until two years ago! The things I've learned from this thread about myself are astounding...

I really don't know what argument to make here, the end result always ends up with you screaming how insensitive anyone who disagrees with you. I've tried science, you ignored it, other modders have mentioned the difficulty of adding it in, and you ignored that as well. The only things you don't ignore or attack are the people that agree with you; none of whom have ever personally attacked you.

We've already had developers comment on the issue, and the response to them has been the same. Why bother interacting with your fans when the result is pure vitriol? Especially when now they have supposedly been "shutting down" the argument and "personally attacking" the disabled.

Also, don't bring up the "Golden Days" of CCP's ownership, it was much the same, there is no new "division" of the fanbase; to say nothing over how the beloved MMO was cancelled, or the reception of the (now) Chronicles of Darkness.

How do you know I'm screaming? Am I being stalked and I don't know? In any case, I posted many facts, data, sales, numbers as well as my professional credentials to back up what I was talking about, which were removed by a mod, who said I cannot publicly post any of that and would have to be sent via PM which I did. But I don't even remember having a conversation or argument with you, I'm flattered you think I have fans, but I don't I have supporters and yes I am sensitive to some of this issues, because I have experienced it, my wife suffers from Kinetosis, but she is not a gamer nor does she care for games.

If showing my support of others is wrong, then I just don't know what to tell you. Maybe next I should put up a picture of my degree to prove a point. But seriously, I'm not sure where this is coming from, like I said if I insulted you in some way or another, I don't even recall it.

 

[LordTremere]

Yes, I have zero empathy and have never suffered any sort of disability at all in my life...apparently I also never heard of WoD until two years ago! The things I've learned from this thread about myself are astounding...

I really don't know what argument to make here, the end result always ends up with you screaming how insensitive anyone who disagrees with you. I've tried science, you ignored it, other modders have mentioned the difficulty of adding it in, and you ignored that as well. The only things you don't ignore or attack are the people that agree with you; none of whom have ever personally attacked you.

We've already had developers comment on the issue, and the response to them has been the same. Why bother interacting with your fans when the result is pure vitriol? Especially when now they have supposedly been "shutting down" the argument and "personally attacking" the disabled.

Also, don't bring up the "Golden Days" of CCP's ownership, it was much the same, there is no new "division" of the fanbase; to say nothing over how the beloved MMO was cancelled, or the reception of the (now) Chronicles of Darkness.

I am a modder and programmer, I've provided my feedback, which supports what he's been saying. Does that make me his fan? In any case, I see no need for the personal attacks, the way I see it you are either for or against. There's no need for personal attacks.

How do you know I'm screaming? Am I being stalked and I don't know? In any case, I posted many facts, data, sales, numbers as well as my professional credentials to back up what I was talking about, which were removed by a mod, who said I cannot publicly post any of that and would have to be sent via PM which I did. But I don't even remember having a conversation or argument with you, I'm flattered you think I have fans, but I don't I have supporters and yes I am sensitive to some of this issues, because I have experienced it, my wife suffers from Kinetosis, but she is not a gamer nor does she care for games.

If showing my support of others is wrong, then I just don't know what to tell you. Maybe next I should put up a picture of my degree to prove a point. But seriously, I'm not sure where this is coming from, like I said if I insulted you in some way or another, I don't even recall it.

You shouldn't have to divulge anymore personal details about you. I know you already got in trouble at work, for explaining in detail what you do for a living. Just let it be, unlike most of us, your real name has already been thrown into the fray. Just leave it at that.

 

[Vampfan]

Yes, I have zero empathy and have never suffered any sort of disability at all in my life...apparently I also never heard of WoD until two years ago! The things I've learned from this thread about myself are astounding...

I really don't know what argument to make here, the end result always ends up with you screaming how insensitive anyone who disagrees with you. I've tried science, you ignored it, other modders have mentioned the difficulty of adding it in, and you ignored that as well. The only things you don't ignore or attack are the people that agree with you; none of whom have ever personally attacked you.

We've already had developers comment on the issue, and the response to them has been the same. Why bother interacting with your fans when the result is pure vitriol? Especially when now they have supposedly been "shutting down" the argument and "personally attacking" the disabled.

Also, don't bring up the "Golden Days" of CCP's ownership, it was much the same, there is no new "division" of the fanbase; to say nothing over how the beloved MMO was cancelled, or the reception of the (now) Chronicles of Darkness.

Full disclosure! No. 1 Fan!

In all seriousness though, I disagree I am disabled, and I have been personally attacked. I just ignore it though. I try to focus on the positive comments, nobody should try to assume how others feel it's just wrong.

We should just focus on the topic instead of being at each other's throats.

 

[Sh4ark]

I am a modder and programmer, I've provided my feedback, which supports what he's been saying. Does that make me his fan? In any case, I see no need for the personal attacks, the way I see it you are either for or against. There's no need for personal attacks.

Do excuse me for not taking your opinion on the matter as fact after saying "there are no 1st person Immersive Sims".

 

[CrimsomAmber]

Yes, I have zero empathy and have never suffered any sort of disability at all in my life...apparently I also never heard of WoD until two years ago! The things I've learned from this thread about myself are astounding...

I really don't know what argument to make here, the end result always ends up with you screaming how insensitive anyone who disagrees with you. I've tried science, you ignored it, other modders have mentioned the difficulty of adding it in, and you ignored that as well. The only things you don't ignore or attack are the people that agree with you; none of whom have ever personally attacked you.

We've already had developers comment on the issue, and the response to them has been the same. Why bother interacting with your fans when the result is pure vitriol? Especially when now they have supposedly been "shutting down" the argument and "personally attacking" the disabled.

Also, don't bring up the "Golden Days" of CCP's ownership, it was much the same, there is no new "division" of the fanbase; to say nothing over how the beloved MMO was cancelled, or the reception of the (now) Chronicles of Darkness.

Technically the golden days were before even CCP. The CCP acquisition just brought hope back, the announcement of the MMO really did bring the community together, because ever since Bloonlines us the PnP and roleplayers of The World of Darkness, saw the possibilities of seeing our fully realized characters in an online universe, where we could interact with people from all over the world.

I'm not exaggerating, when I say we had millions of people all in 1 single place. The live chat was crazy you could barely see your responses, as they would be gone in seconds, and it was like that for many years until the cancellation of the MMO. Then people again lost interest and disappeared, that's why so many are so passionate about this Bloodlines, it's really hard to put it into words. Most games people just move on, but The World of Darkness has an extremely loyal fan base, I think the only franchise that would get remotely close to the fandom is Star Wars.

But that is what The World of Darkness is about, freedom, choice, loyalty and fun maybe even some anarchy.

 

[Lord Vlad]

I guess camera choice isn't just aesthetic.

If in the game players go through claustrophobic and tight enviroments like sewers, tunnels and ventilation ducts (like mostly immersive sims), first person works highly better than third person.

I feel like everything is in my face. Sometimes lol. That's why i liked skyrim. You could change. I only used fpp for certain things in Skyrim.

I made an account just to write my opinion on the matter.

Personally, I'm one of those people that switch between FP and TP as the situation demands. Since Bloodlines 2 is an RPG with an "extensive" character customization (and this apparently includes a whole wardrobe of outfits that we can use to express ourselves; I think one of the devs mentioned this at some point as part of our prologue experience) it makes sense to include a third-person perspective. As a casual RPer who spends too much time fine-tuning her character's appearance when given the chance, I too like to take a break sometimes and oogle my character from head to toe.

Now, I can understand why some people are so vehement against it; they are worried that adding a TPP is going to take away time, money and resources that, in their opinion, are better off being spent in other, more critical, parts of the game (i.e, story, quests, etc). And I partially agree with them there - a third-person perspective implies adding a whole list of animations; walking, running, grappling, bitting, climbing, hair, body and clothing physics, etc. Third person melee combat can be very complex, especially if you're going for quality, smooth and believable moves with weapons in mix. I'm imagining hiring two actors (one male and one female) to help with the motion capture and then working all the kinks to make it into proper animations mustn't be cheap.

Assuming this is indeed the case (lack of money, time and/or resources) one must ask which is more costly in the long term - implementing full animations for third person or losing a portion of the community that can't or won't play without TP. I honestly don't know which is worse. My bottom line is: I'm alright with giving players what they want, provided the original product doesn't lose quality over it. I don't intend this to be a jab at people with disabilities, I actually kind of feel for you. Gaming is my passion and if one of my favourite titles, who took over a decade to get a proper sequel, came out and I couldn't play it due to health reasons... I'd be extremely disappointed and sad.

But if implementing the third person means the game will lose some of its potential quality (which may or may not), then I'd rather not have TPP. I'm sorry for the selfishness... but it is my opinion.

PS: Don't forget that modding is a possibility as well, so even if the developers can't do it, there's a chance the modding community will get a way around it.

True true. But they need to make it so we can mod. Also as to how FAR we can mod into it.

It is possible it could hurt some of it's potential, but i honestly don't see it.

Technically the golden days were before even CCP. The CCP acquisition just brought hope back, the announcement of the MMO really did bring the community together, because ever since Bloonlines us the PnP and roleplayers of The World of Darkness, saw the possibilities of seeing our fully realized characters in an online universe, where we could interact with people from all over the world.

I'm not exaggerating, when I say we had millions of people all in 1 single place. The live chat was crazy you could barely see your responses, as they would be gone in seconds, and it was like that for many years until the cancellation of the MMO. Then people again lost interest and disappeared, that's why so many are so passionate about this Bloodlines, it's really hard to put it into words. Most games people just move on, but The World of Darkness has an extremely loyal fan base, I think the only franchise that would get remotely close to the fandom is Star Wars.

But that is what The World of Darkness is about, freedom, choice, loyalty and fun maybe even some anarchy.

Let me emphasize for you so the devs can see this. FREEEEDOOM. CHOIIIICCE.

 

[Vampfan]

I feel like everything is in my face. Sometimes lol. That's why i liked skyrim. You could change. I only used fpp for certain things in Skyrim.

That's exactly the way I feel. Except with nausea and puke added to the equation. Lol

 

[Lord Vlad]

Yes, I have zero empathy and have never suffered any sort of disability at all in my life...apparently I also never heard of WoD until two years ago! The things I've learned from this thread about myself are astounding...

I really don't know what argument to make here, the end result always ends up with you screaming how insensitive anyone who disagrees with you. I've tried science, you ignored it, other modders have mentioned the difficulty of adding it in, and you ignored that as well. The only things you don't ignore or attack are the people that agree with you; none of whom have ever personally attacked you.

We've already had developers comment on the issue, and the response to them has been the same. Why bother interacting with your fans when the result is pure vitriol? Especially when now they have supposedly been "shutting down" the argument and "personally attacking" the disabled.

Also, don't bring up the "Golden Days" of CCP's ownership, it was much the same, there is no new "division" of the fanbase; to say nothing over how the beloved MMO was cancelled, or the reception of the (now) Chronicles of Darkness.

I have so many things i want to comment about this but i don't want to fight with you. I'm just going to say that i completely disagree with you.

Except 99% of the games that are categoriesed as such. Deus Ex, System Shock, Dishonored, Thief, Prey and others.



Which is the exact opposite of what they're trying to do. Which is make you "feel" that it's you in that world not controlling something remotely. That takes away some of the suspens and urgency of any particular scene, on paper that is. That is a design decision which you may or may not agree with, but doesn't make it any less important.

That's funny though. I feel like it's more me in tpp rather than fpp. Better to see who i play as then play as a spirit or ghost.

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

Closed for some needed review, apparently.

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

Upon further review, I am electing to keep the thread closed.

 

[TinyWiking]

Alright ladies and gentlemen I've gone over this again and whilst I agree with Mr. Capiatlists actions I've decided to give this thread one final chance. Some of you will see you are unable to reply and that comes down to you being banned from this particular thread. This is due to repeated poor behavior and this will not be overturned for the time being. Furthermore if you create new threads about this you will be given infractions.

Be nice, civil and respectful. Disagreeing is fine, trolling, baiting to start arguments etc is not. Please keep on topic as this will be locked, permanently, should it stray too far again.

 

[Lord Vlad]

Hence the petition and requests from people in this forum. If we knew for sure, the tools will there, or if the devs even plan on adding it. This thread would not exist, but thank you for the input.

At this time they may not know either. Hopefully, if thry can't provide tpp, then they give us the tools that we need to mod it so. Would be nice to know how far they will allow modders to go based off their tools (if they have any tools), as they said they WILL add mosding support.

 

[HeinrichDM]

Generally, i don't prefer first person, to be clear.
I just say that camera view is a design choice.

Some games are better in 1st person, others are better in 3rd person.
It highly depends on how level design is done, how combat system works and, obviously, what kind of experience/emotions developers want to transmit to the players.

In games like skyrim (and other bethesda games), where players can switch the camera, neither 1st person nor 3rd person works 100% well, because of that. But, hey, it's just the my opinion.

If developers will decide to add 3rd person in future i will not be against this, anyway.