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Lord Hoosier

Lt. General
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Mar 12, 2017
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In the 1.28 patch a big deal was made about Pirate Nations. But we only got a handful of them. Gotland, if it achieves independence, should become a pirate nation. Or start it as an independent pirate republic and hard code Denmark to declare war as soon as the month of peace ends. Give it a few missions alongside the pirate nation missions, conquering the Danish Isles for example, or having privateering in far away nodes such as Chesapeake, Genoa, or Alexandria.

Secondly, the nation of Habsan. This Amharic cultured nation spawns in India. They are freed African slaves who take over a province and offer to be your vassals. They were even called Pirates by the eevs during the Dharma Dev Clash, so their lack of representation as such is upsetting! Give them a few missiond alongside the pirate tree such as conquering Hormuz, and reclaiming Amharic lands in Africa by way of the Horn. You could even give them an achievement called "I am the captain now!" for conquering Somalia.

These two nations would add Pirate republics to two regions that lack them. Europe would gain a pirate nation right off the bat, and it would add the rather unique government type to the most played region by far. While Palembang is fascinating history and encourages many to play a rarely played region, a second 1444 pirate nation would be great, and it being in the most fleshed out region is even better! Habsan would give more depth to the Arabian sea and would be a natural threat to Hormuz, Oman, Gujarat, or any Trade Companies tagt show up. And the idea of a campaign to rule the Arabian Sea as a group of galley slaves turned pirates is great! Begining as a Vassal Pirate Republic isia very unique start, as you would be forced to provide your land forces to your liege, all while you could be using your Navy for your own devices! Plus, they would be played often as they are a nation with a clear objective, conquer back to Amharic lands to reunite with your people. This is an achievement waiting to happen! Like the other late spawners, they would be given "A Pirate's Life for Me!" To make playing them easier. Finally Habsan provides a natural Indian Ocean Pirate Rival for Libertalia, and the dynamic between the two would make for great multiplayer campaigns.
 
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As I said in a somewhat previous post about Gotland:

Before GC I wanted Gotland to be a pirate kingdom rued by King Erik, though I'm essentially not changed that stance I just modified it's execution because it can't be a republic as long as Erik lives (him getting elected away wouldn't make sense) Instead it should get an event on Erik's death to either reintegrate with Denmark, or become a pirate republic.

For Habsan I'm absolutly onboard, had never bothered to look up that state, nor did I know the "Pirate Bay of Janjira" achievment were based on this.

In addition I believe that two european republics, Frisia and Dithmarschen should have some special possibility to become pirate states, they were both semi-libertarian/anarchistic republics that enjoyed piracy. That they would take the step over to become a full fledged pirate republic is not out of the question (it should still have special requirments and not be just freely offered as in the case of Palembang)
 
As I said in a somewhat previous post about Gotland:

Before GC I wanted Gotland to be a pirate kingdom rued by King Erik, though I'm essentially not changed that stance I just modified it's execution because it can't be a republic as long as Erik lives (him getting elected away wouldn't make sense) Instead it should get an event on Erik's death to either reintegrate with Denmark, or become a pirate republic.

For Habsan I'm absolutly onboard, had never bothered to look up that state, nor did I know the "Pirate Bay of Janjira" achievment were based on this.

In addition I believe that two european republics, Frisia and Dithmarschen should have some special possibility to become pirate states, they were both semi-libertarian/anarchistic republics that enjoyed piracy. That they would take the step over to become a full fledged pirate republic is not out of the question (it should still have special requirments and not be just freely offered as in the case of Palembang)

I was just about to respond to you in the other thread by @promant. I really like this suggestion, as it does not require a new government from for a pirate monarchy ruled by Erik. As long as there is still the possibility of putting Erik on the throne of Denmark, Norway and maybe even Pomerania I would be very happy with this.

For Habsan it is a little more complicated. As I mentioned in the other post, the nation is well represented by a Monarchy with Habsi rulers. As it is still very much a pirate nation, it would be desirable to get some piracy related content for the nation. A creative solution is required to combine the two.
 
For Erik's Gotland, it could start independent, and also have a diplomatic malus lasting for Erik's life time. Meanwhile it should also have a restoration of union casus belli on denmark (or similiar). My idea is that it should be enough for Gotland to occupy Copenhagen to trigger an event (as long as Erik is still king) which would make trigger a tag change there the player changes to becoming denmark (absorbing gotland) and acquiring all the unions denmark holds at the moment.

If Erik dies, an event triggers for Gotland that makes the above mentioned choice.

To make pirate gotland fairly rare, both sweden and denmark keeps their cores and owning gotland should be an initial mission of some sort (when denmark and sweden get's their own complete mission trees)

True about Habsan, they do have raid coast in their tradition aswell though no NI for privateering. Maybe they could get that instead of konkan trade/trade efficiency
 
For Erik's Gotland, it could start independent, and also have a diplomatic malus lasting for Erik's life time. Meanwhile it should also have a restoration of union casus belli on denmark (or similiar). My idea is that it should be enough for Gotland to occupy Copenhagen to trigger an event (as long as Erik is still king) which would make trigger a tag change there the player changes to becoming denmark (absorbing gotland) and acquiring all the unions denmark holds at the moment.

If Erik dies, an event triggers for Gotland that makes the above mentioned choice.

To make pirate gotland fairly rare, both sweden and denmark keeps their cores and owning gotland should be an initial mission of some sort (when denmark and sweden get's their own complete mission trees)

That's not a bad idea at all. Scandinavia isn't in scope for the Europe update, but I'll certainly keep this in mind for the future.

True about Habsan, they do have raid coast in their tradition aswell though no NI for privateering. Maybe they could get that instead of konkan trade/trade efficiency

I think Habsan is better seen in the context of Habshi rule in India rather than as a pirate state. The Bengal Sultanate for instance was ruled by Habshis for part of our era following a palace coup. They played a significant role in pre-Mughal India, which could be represented much better in the game.
 
That's not a bad idea at all. Scandinavia isn't in scope for the Europe update, but I'll certainly keep this in mind for the future.


I think Habsan (...) played a significant role in pre-Mughal India, which could be represented much better in the game.

Since the last DLC was Pirate focussed, and the one before that was India focussed, the fact these two nations need some love is somewhat of an oversight of the last two DLC-patches. I can understand there is often not enough time to look into every nation for a patch, but I hope that looking at it this way might help as an excuse to change it for the 1.29 patch ;)
 
Glorious Scandinavia not part of Europe! Seriously as a kid I though Norden (scandinavia) was it's own continent :cool:

but I hope that looking at it this way might help as an excuse to change it for the 1.29 patch

Once they overhauled the entire world bit by bit, I expect them to do some more general patches there they just update this sort of shit they left out in previous patches and stuff. Hopefully already by 2020 (europe patch now, then in random order: SE-Asia, Africa, Scandinavia, Central asia, I don't believe they'll do a dedicated america patch)
 
Speaking of Scandinavia, could Iceland (with new ideas) be added as a vassal in the 1444 start? It certainly wasn't directly ruled from Norway.
 
Speaking of Scandinavia, I don't know much.
But about Habsan, I don't think they necessarily should have pirate government attached. According to data I dug out they were more than regular pirate state as neondt tells.

But Habsan's relation with Ottomans (similar to Sale, Tetouan, Algiers, Tunisia, and even Aceh) could be implemented to make them appear more in game, and it might have more events or just mission tree, as all other pirates got!

I am just quoting some data:
According to here Janjira (called Habsan in game which can appear by event) had good relations with Ottomans and Aceh, could also be included in tree:
According to Ottoman records, a combined force from the Ottomans and Janjira routed a Portuguese fleet in 1587 at Yemen. From this moment onwards Janjira played an important role in resisting Portuguese influence in the region. There's further record of Cooperation with the Ottoman Empire when the Ottoman fleet first arrived in Aceh prior to Ottoman expedition to Aceh has included 200 Malabar sailors from Janjira State to aid the region Batak and the Maritime Southeast Asia in 1539 According to one records at one time Sultan Aurangzeb supplied the Siddis of Janjira state with 2,000 men, provisions, ammunitions along with two Frigates and two large Man-of-war battleships. The ship arrived at Bombay harbor under the commands of Siddi Kasim and Siddi Sambal at 1677. The largest Mughal ship named Ganj-I-Sawai Which equipped with 800 guns and 400 musketeer type soldiers also stationed in the port of Surat. Another record from East India Company factory which written 1673 has reported the Siddis fleet which wintered from Bombay has five Frigates and two Man-of-wars beside of fifteen grabs vessels. It is because the formidable naval warfare skills of Siddis in Janjira that Aurangzeb granting annual payment of 400.000 Rupee for the maintenance of their fleet.

On the other hand I believe there could really be more pirate nations with government or just "may raid coasts" modifier. Especially raiding coast modifier shouldn't be that rare.

This is my thread I casually research about pirates around the world, I just wanna add there are actually even more pirate ruled places around the world
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ble-barbary-pirate-state-possibility.1083790/

Mayo of Ireland (neondt gave his word to tie them to pirate mechanics) :D
Not for 1.28, Irish pirates weren't really on my radar. There's a Women in History event for her though (written as 'Gráinne Ní Mháille'). I'll tie that into the pirate mechanics at some point, she sounds very interesting :)
Senj/Uskoks of Balkans
Jean Lafitte's Barataria
Sō clan of Tsushima (Wokou pirates)
Watergeuzen (Sea Beggars) of Dutch
Moro pirates of Sulu
Tungning of Taiwan
Cantonese Pirate Coalition (Red Flag Fleet)
Betsimisakara of Madagascar

I believe we should all compare which deserve pirate governments and which deserve only raiding mechanics.
 
Sō clan of Tsushima (Wokou pirates)
I think it would interesting to have the So clan of Tsushima. Tsushima Island was an important factor in Korea-Japan relations, and was a strategic point between the Korean peninsula and the Japanese main islands. When the Mongols invaded Japan, Tsushima was the first place they invaded. The So clan also had a trade monopoly in Japan with Joseon Korea. Japanese warlord, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, used this island as a naval base for his invasions into Korea in the Imjin War. Tsushima was a haven for the wokou pirates, and was once invaded by the Joseon Dynasty, for its habouring of pirates. I don't think that the So clan should start out as a pirate nation right away, though.
 
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Senj/Uskoks of Balkans
Speaking of Adriatic Pirates, there were also the earlier Omiš Pirates, who were given shelter by the Republic of Poljica (a Venetian vassal owning Dalmatian territory southeast of Split). However, I'm personally of the opinion that the territories controlled by pirates in the Adriatic would be too small for them to be included as tags. I think events would be the best way to go in terms of representing their influence on the area, particularly with regard to the larger powers.