2.2 robots are nearly worthless (along with Machine Empires, Mechanist, and Synethic Ascension)

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There is a way to avoid this bug: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...llaris-synthetics-cant-do-ruler-jobs.1134723/

just pass the law for full synth rights before the ascension and it will work.

Edit: btw, as ascended Synth Empire I get quite marvelous robot build times. 10.64 growth/month means more than a robot per year on my core worlds (4 Robotocists per planet) which I can ship to new worlds. With that, I fill new worlds quicker than I can build districts and buildings providing enough jobs.
 
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Yeah, robots are broken right out of the gate.

I built robot assembly plants to backfill farming and mining jobs with robot slaves, but immediately I run into the problem that robots can't run clerk jobs.

The problem is the job management AI keeps assigning my base species to those jobs. So all my organic workers take up 100% of the farming mining jobs, leaving only empty clerk jobs and every single robot pop unemployed and worthless. And I can't just promote them all because I need those organic species to run those clerk jobs. As far as I can tell, there is no way to properly utilize robot pops at all until droids, and that gives its own slew of new problems given what I read in this thread...

Time I guess to delete this fanatic materialist save and do something else until it's fixed.
There is a workaround, albeit a clunky one. You can deprioritize (should really say "disable") jobs to kick your organics out, then re-prioritize them to fill them with robots. I think it will even prefer to fill mining/farming jobs with robots, which should save having to do this multiple times if your organics aren't all clerkified right away.

Really, when the game needs is an easy way to re-evaluate job suitability (at least within a given strata) and do that swap with a single click (or automatically).
 
t would be nice for them to automatically select workplace where they have higher efficiency,
Yes I wished that was the case too

Edit: Also, If devs thinks it's going to be lots of work. Maybe creating a job permit in population overlay for the spesific drone would do the trick easier. With no cost of corse
 
This doesn't seem right :confused:

upload_2018-12-8_16-37-42.png


What is this sorcery?
upload_2018-12-8_16-44-51.png
 
Yeah I am not sure why robot are forced to research farm/food...

The only use I can think of is to convert all that extra food into energy. Is it even worthwhile to do?
 
The instant caste mobility has a huge advantage though. You simply disable the jobs you do not want... you upgrade a foundry and disable 4 of the 5 new work slots and there is no problem. I feel that the mid game is the weakest point of robots right now, as there is where you need to shuffle the jobs a bit too much, but as soon as you start building your dyson, everything just works. :D

correct it does have massive advantages but it fucks your economy trying to track down where the problem is especially when robots already lose out really hard compared to bio races
 
Yeah I am not sure why robot are forced to research farm/food...

The only use I can think of is to convert all that extra food into energy. Is it even worthwhile to do?
This doesn't seem right :confused:

View attachment 426325

What is this sorcery?
View attachment 426334

honeslty it baffles me that strict machine races even have access to the agricultural districts. ALSO WHOS RETARDED IDEA WAS IT TO MAKE THE BIO REACTOR BUILD HAVE A 20 FOOD UPKEEP. THATS SUSHC A SIGNIFICANT TIME INVESTMENT THATS COMPLETELY USELESS
 
My early-game feels like this:
View attachment 426386

lol i kinda have this problem except my robo race generally focuses on research supremacy so i have bonuses to my science values instead of mining and energy. so while im scrambling to make more generator districts and waiting for my pops to grow to fill them up, every single building i make that uses minerals or opens up new jobs just screws the whole balance up.. "oh you need minerals to build more pops? well too bad now your energy is negative. oh now your minerals are negative and you cant build pops? guess you have to disable those alloy forges across your empire and cripple your military to make more pops available for the mines" i feel like i need to make robo gulags just to make even on my bank account.

OH AND LETS NOT FORGET THAT VOLATILE MOTE FACTORIES AND EXOTIC GASES FUCKING SAP YOUR RESOURCES LIKE A MOTHER FUCKER. HALF THE TIME THEYRE ACTUALLY MANDATORY IN ORDER TO KEEP YOUR ECONOMY STABLE BECAUSE YOU NEED THE MINERAL FACILITY BUILDINGS AND ENERGY GRIDS


#MAKE-MACHINES-GREAT-AGAIN
 
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Allrighty - originally I had planned to play the new Smash this saturday, but the allure of Stellaris was too great and I ended up playing a Machine Empire instead.

Right now I am 120 years in and I'll say - they are okay. Easy there, wait with the torches and pitchforks, I'll explain.
I did deliberatly go for a build-speed focused empire to compare it to my usual Inward Perfection games, but this was my first game with a Machine Empire in Megacorps and mistakes were made. Here are some observations that should help adressing the issue:

(1) The start setup fro machines need some tweaking. The Maintenance Depot you start with is pretty much pointless and you are better off moving those drones into an extra M and E district asap. That's not ideal. Also, the basic Colony building shouldn't start with a Hunter-Killer drone slot, that's just pointless micromanagement.

(2) I think that Machine growth speed is actually fine. It starts quite low intially on colonies, which mirrors the penalty organics get. The fact that the Expansion tradition doesn't provide an extra pop as promised is a significant drawback, given that you really want to get to the first building slot ASAP. Once you get that building, pop growth is quite acceptable in my eyes and with each further upgrade you get more and more growth speed, which allows you to keep up with the organics - and at the highest level even surpasses them (unless they really squeeze everything into Growth modifiers - I think even my Inward Perfection empire can't compete with that unless I go full Gene Ascension).

(3) While growth is pretty much okay, the Replicator job upkeep is a bit too harsh, particularly since you will have quite a few of these guys as the planet grows. That should probably be tweaked a bit (and is already planned, iirc).

(4) I don't think that the fact that Machine empires have to employ pops on Replicator jobs is that big of an issue. Organics need to divert quite a lot of pops to produce Consumer Goods, so it's not as unfair as people make it out to be.

(5) Related to that, Machine economies require a lot of investment for intial setup on planets, but once that is in place, they really take off. The fact that you can forgo the CG manufacturing process gives Machines a lot of flexibility with their buildings past the first two slots. Their midgame and late game economy is terrifyingly efficient compared to the organic empires I usually play.

(6) That being said, Machine Empires can have a pretty problematic mid game. The issue here is mostly the RNG nature of deposits - in my game I had a lot of F on my worlds, but a very limited amount of M and only a moderate amount of E. A situation like that can mean that you can end up with exhausted E deposits and your economy will peak. It is a lot like the M situation for organic empires, but given that you don't have upkeep split as much as they do, it can happen a lot earlier (especially if you don't focus on the right techs). A thing that could help with that would be to increase technician yield by +1, while reducing farmer yield by -1.

(7) In theory you can use the Bio Reactor to utilize F deposits, and it is somehwat efficient enough, but it doesn't really feel good. I think it would probably be better to add actual jobs (let's say 20F -> 20E each) to that building and allow the player to upgrade it, so you can get 2/5/10 jobs if necessary.

(8) All the above economy woes aside: Once you get Machine worlds, you are set. Sweet Cyborg Jesus, these things are insane. They immediately resolve the whole deposit limitation issue and the extra benefits to pop output and housing are marevelous. You might have a rough mid game, but once you get these babies up, your machine empire will eclipse any organic rival. Their power level is absurd.

(9) Flip side of the coin: Machine Habitats are not great for solving your E issues. The E jobs are equal to the ones you get for organics, but the lack of synergy buildings (like the Stock Exchange) means that a Machine Habitat are quite a bit weaker than the organic version when it comes to E generation. However, the science districts are quite good, so it seems we have an inverse situation to organics here - planets produce Energy, Habitats provide extra science.

(10) So with that being said - to me it seems that Machine have a pretty snow-ball-y playstile. Their early game is roughly the same as organics, but less flexible. Their mid game performance depends a lot on the available deposits, but once they get machine worlds and max-level capital buildings, they will outperform organics by a significant margin. But that also means there are a lot of no-brainer choices here (Fabricator buildings in first slot, Machine Worlds), so it would probably be good to shift some power from Machine worlds into regular play.

Bonus: Synth Ascension

I do feel that Synth Ascension is actually sufficently powerful - it has very high pop growth and quite efficient pops. The problem is that the whole process of switiching your empire is even less smooth than before. Just like Machines, Synthetics run into trouble with E deposits and all that build-up F production isn't converted into a useful yield anymore. Also, the fact that you end up with unmodded robots and that you'll need a decade or so to fix that is annoying. Reduced Robo-mod project time would certainly be welcome.

Bonus 2: Special Machine Empires

While these are also suffering from setup issues, I think Driven Assimilators and Rogue Servitors should not be underestimated. They need to care about F (and in the case of Servitors CGs), but in return their pop growth is by default better than any organic empire, plus a bunch of other neat boons.

I am actually pretty convinced that Assimilators are mighty OP, being able to configure and grow two dedicated species AND split their upkeep cost between E and F that way (and don't forget Cyborg leaders come with extra traits!). Not to mention, if you really want to, you can go and just raid your neighbors for even more pops. I wonder how that works with Nihilistic Aquisition. Well, something to test for tomorrow, I guess.

- - - - -

Anyway, that is my take on the whole thing. I'll talk to the Stellaris team on monday and see what they think about the current situation.
 
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I'm gonna throw my two cents in here. Started a new solution focused thread for this but no one wants to talk to me and I'm bored and lonely :(

First of, I am not here to play devil's advocate. I do belive that ME and SA empires have come out worse for wear due to the fundamental economy changes and require a fair bit of help. However, being an avid machine player I've done nothing but spam bots since the patch went out, not going too far into the games themselves, just trying to get a feel for the mechanics. And I believe I'm now starting to see patterns perhaps a little different than what I've read from other people elsewhere. So yes I am aware there is a robots sux thread currently blowing up but that's not the way I wanna go. So without further ado.

2.2 Opened up a lot of possibilities playstyle wise, and bio civs can feel the benefits of the massive overhaul. The key issue with robots I feel, is that their fundamental mechanics have stayed back in 2.1. You have a pop, it's upkeep is energy, it consumes little else, it can do this specific job. You build it to mine a rock so it seemingly offers extremely little in the branched out system of jobs now in place. In my games as mechanist this was really prominent, I could see little benefit to keeping bots over bio workers, the energy cost is substantial, they can't do anything but mine and farm early on, the factories keep endlessly churning out bots where you don't really need them and so on and so forth. Took me a while to find some sort of purpose in all of that mess, but a strategy revolving around mass-ressetling of rob pops to jump start economies was finnaly starting to bear fruit. I could run a world churning out unemployed bots, for no penalty, then just pick them all up and cram them into a new colony. And that's how I eventually came to my conclusion on what is broken about bots in 2.2

2.2 still treats bots the same way. It says they're pops. But they are not. What they are is an advanced resource. You are merely turning minerals into a workforce. The way robots are thought about in the game needs to fundamentally change. Why must I pay 2/3rds of the regular price to move them? I turn them off, toss them in the hold and move them. They're things, they don't a bussiness class. Rather I believe robots and droids should not be treated as pops in any way whatsoever. Rather, the empire should have a joint pool of robotic workers contributed into by your robo-factories that the player can then draw from.

To illustrate how this would work in my mind. You have a robo-factory. You assign this factory, not the world, the actual factory, to construct a robot of specific type. This robot is then put into empire storage, same as a resource, until deployed. To deploy you would simply select a planet and the desired jobs and choose them to be occupied by bots, then select which bots. Then you'd pay a flat fee to transport and deploy your machines and that's that. They then perform the assigned chosen tasks until re-assigned to storage or another place.

The robot in this set up is a simple resource. It is not auto-assigned, it is not auto-upgraded. It is just as you built it and does what you tell it to do. Until you get rid of it. You can always built cheap robots with smaller upkeep to do the most basic jobs, or you can build more expensive droids to fullfill clerk or technical jobs. But they act like a resource and are moved around and utilized as such.

Separate from this is the existence of true AI, ascended synths or ME advanced drones. They would be the only bots able to fullfill specialist or even ruler jobs, and would be burdened with all the advantages or disadvantages of your standard pop.



TL,DR: Bots and droids need to be reworked into a resource type of thing instead of a pop substitute.
 
Thank you for a thorough and thoughtful breakdown @GAGA Extrem. The new economy needs new paradigms to figure out issues, not just yelling it's broken and doesn't ever work forever.

Glad to get a peek at future tweaks as well.
 
I haven't had any issue with ME's yet, but that might be me getting lucky with planets with a lot of room for Energy Districts. I could guess that finding planets suitable for Energy is much more important compared to organics, since they can use any resource they get a hold of, while Food is more or less worthless to machines (except as fuel for a building, never got around to testing how effective that was).

Still a bit annoyed that the extra pop on colony from Expansion doesn't work, and that the Pop assembly cost reduction from Versatility tradition and Recycled trait also doesn't seem to work. But other than that, I find the ME's have a bit of a skewed start, with many jobs that are useless at the begining, and not enough energy generation. That should be fixable, I hope.
 
They are supposed to. But only when changing jobs. And if there is no better pop to work a higher statrum job, you can still get a non-ideal one. Just because it needs to be filled by someone. And once a pop is a specialist it won't easily go back to being a worker (at least as far as organics are concerned).
If they constantly checked for better available jobs you'd basically have the tile system back which was very hard for performance, even with just 25 pops per planet.
There is no excuse for constantly checking for better available jobs, regardless of whether a tile system or the current system is used; that's the sign of sloppy programming, or "we needed it done in a hurry to meet a deadline and never got time to iterate to do it properly".

In any job distribution systems, you only ever need to perform an update when something changes that affects available resources (e.g. addition or removal of workers, new priorities for task assignment, changes to worker efficiency at different tasks), and you can either do it exactly when the change happens, or, if you want to perform such changes on regular updates, make changes set a flag that this is to be done on next update.

Moreover, to cut significantly down on the time necessary on each update, good practice is to cache any information that will reduce the need to iterate over workers and tasks on each update, because it is nuts to do all (worker, job) comparisons on each update.

And you can make it even easier - and faster executing - if you are willing to accept merely adequate rather than optimal assignments, and for computer games that is generally the case.

The only reason I can see for the often poor tile worker assignment in Stellaris prior to 2.2 (though it got better over time with more work done on it) and the current inadequate work assignment in the new system is that the developers assigned to it simply have never been assigned enough time to do it properly, because in terms of computer science and given how mere adequacy would be good enough, this is not a hard problem to solve, merely a time consuming one.

So I'll be expecting some improvements to it over time, just as was the case for the 1.0-2.1 system.
 
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The big problem with synthetic evolution seems to be that the resulting pops are terrible. No bonuses besides immortal, and you don't get many robomodding points so at best you can make them almost as good as a typically starting race. It's a huge amount of sacrifice just to get immortal, which is good and all, but I was expecting something closer to the old style snyths, with improved resource output, etc.
 

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alrighty now having tweaked my robo empire sufficiently and found some oddities in the micro management system there are some changes i feel should be made and some explanations i want to make to avid machine players who maybe havent had the time and intricate knowledge of their race's design to fully understand the impact of the new mechanics cause i sure didnt until i modified my race traits. anyway

*reduce upkeep and draw for replicators. OR outright double the output of a single replicator job and remove one replicator slot form the initial government building spawned on a homeworld ~REASONING at present its not a huge issue entirely that the replicator job requires a machine pop but as it stands each one takes 5 minerals by default and adds one growth speed. the cost is fine if you double its output and remove one slot, thus freeing up a pop to work another job to supplement its cost and allowing slightly more flexibility to machine empires.

*reduce the upkeep for generator districts and nexus districts for machine empires. this is probably my biggest gripe so far. machine empires yes have powerful I MEAN POWERFUL early expansion (ill get to it) but there is a LOT of stacking costs for energy that ends up crippling their economy simply by growing. their energy growth is only about 40% the efficiency of bio empires BECAUSE each pop requires 1 energy to run. 1 tech drone produces 4 energy knock that down to 3 to pay for its own upkeep. knock that down to 2 to pay for a generator district. and a single gen district now only produces 6 energy best case scenario. not to mention nexus districts cost 2 to maintain so let me lay out a planetary management setup

MASTER CONDUIT planetary status 55 years in game
resource production +34 E +25 M research values +25 57 22 (phy soc eng in that order egregiously low compared to my preferred playstyle which is impossible now because of some issues) 3 influence 17 alloys 1 volatile mote
~60 pops (immediate 60 energy upkeep) [ill factor reductions later]
*buildings*
~planetary processor (only counting jobs here)
3 coordinators
3 replicators
2 hunter seekers
3 maintenance drones
~maintenance Depot
5 maintenance drones (i have the research that adds more)
~research labs
2 calculators
~alloy mega forges
5 fabricators
~machine assembly plants
1 replicator
~system conflux
4 coordinators
~Energy grid
1 tech drone
~chemical plants
1 chem drone
~drone storage
1 maintenance drone

the planet also has 8 generator districts and 6 mining districts. so twelve miners and 16 tech drones now at static 4 energy per tech drone which is the default amount this planet has 17 tech drones at 68 energy. this planet could not support itself without an energy nexus

buildings in total cost 24 energy monthly in upkeep. and pops would cost 1 per at 60 energy. 84 energy upkeep and i STILL have 4 unused building slots note i havent even factored in district upkeeps districts cost another 20 energy right now on this world with 3 nexus districts.

all in all this is kinda absurd. this planet is actually positive 34 energy right now simply because ive stacked research to increase tech drone jobs because now my tech drones with the energy grid and brought it up to 6.2 per tech drone so if you get RNG fucked in research youre screwed.

*rework the energy costs on districts for machine empires to mitigate the disadvantage they have with upkeep

something ive noticed even in the old version was that machine empires had a significant slow down with expansion by their power infrastructure. i usually mitigated this by just building powerplants over food slots on planets since that was intended to be pop upkeep anyway so just turn it into energy instead.

however now for some reason machine empires still have access to agriculture districts and are forced to research food when it would take 6+ agriculture districts with 12 pops or more to make use of a bio reactor. a huge waste of resources and effort tbh

but to make this EVEN WORSE you can set the habitable planet setting to guarantee 2 worlds near you and have both of them be agriculture focused and only have 3 generator districts. real thing that actually happened to me and now that planet is utterly useless and i cant expand because those 3 generator districts cant even support a population let alone an industry.

"but what about the bio reactor blah balh) yes im aware the bio reactor would shift this problem and turn it into a benefit. but tell me. at 20 food a month for 20 energy you need to put a substantial time investment into a world that will crash your economy when you terraform it into a machine world cause all those agri districts vanish. seriously if you focus on an agri world thats outputting something up in the 200s in energy because its all agri districts, unless you already have a dyson sphere (and even then) you just instantly lost 200 monthly energy

also consider for bio pops, you need consumer goods and food so technically same number of jobs for resources. and bio races have the immigration pull system to worry about for expanding too quickly. but when machines require energy theyre making to make more machines to mine minerals to make more machines that require more energy you need to put like 6 pops into the system before you come out of it positive because its SO FREAKING INEFFICIENT.

the guy above me mentions the machine world power level and yeah thats nice and all but bio pops can still build ringworlds and ecumenopolis worlds and stuff and unless you rush machine worlds mid game and hard focus your engineering and terraforming to SPEED demon your planet creation youre gonna have a bad time against pretty much any economically focused bio race.

also dont get me wrong i lvoe the new planetary system. its great and fun and i love the way it works. but it feels like it was designed with organic races in mind and kind is geared in opposition to machines to a deadly effect if you had a specialized playstyle already
 
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I do feel that Synth Ascension is actually sufficently powerful - it has very high pop growth and quite efficient pops. The problem is that the whole process of switiching your empire is even less smooth than before. Just like Machines, Synthetics run into trouble with E deposits and all that build-up F production isn't converted into a useful yield anymore. Also, the fact that you end up with unmodded robots and that you'll need a decade or so to fix that is annoying. Reduced Robo-mod project time would certainly be welcome.

A couple quibbles:

1) Not to be contrary, but I'm not sure I agree that the Synth Ascension pops are "quite efficient." Their bonuses to production are substantially weaker than many of the options available to organics in early/mid-game, let alone after bio or psionic ascension or late-game techs/perks. In fact, ascending immediately lowers my production across the board, often substantially. If the 2.1 bonus of 20% + 20% from happiness was too high, I think at least 15% is fair. It takes two ascension perks and a ton of resources/time, the bonuses shouldn't be on par with (let alone weaker than) early/mid-game organic civs.

On a similar note, synthetic ascension doesn't get Machine Worlds, so a big part of the strength you're talking about doesn't apply. If they did, it might be a different conversation. On the same note, I don't mean to pile on complaints, but it does seem like synth ascension hasn't fully been integrated with a lot of the Synthetic Dawn features (the way they react to the Contingency/Ghost Signal is another example).

2) I think your point re: expansion not granting another pop is right; the biggest issue with growth is probably how hard it is to colonize without being able to build immediately. But I'm not sure robots should be required to take a specific tradition just to expand reasonably efficiently.

3) The nerfs to robo-modding are also relevant, but perhaps more substantial is the fact that you can no longer easily assign specialized pops to the right jobs. In fact, you can't even mod specific pops to be better at specific things, the way you could in 2.1. The entire modding/specializing gameplay loop feels broken, to be blunt.

This actually impacts a ton of empires (slaves, bio-modded, xenophiles etc.) and probably deserves its own forum post, but even leaving the problems w/ building specialized pops aside, having to manually use the +/- buttons over and over to get modded pops in the appropriate jobs is really, really tiresome. The removal of the drag-and-drop system makes things pretty time-consuming and frustrating, but the alternative is an empire full of mining-specialized pops working research and vice versa.

4) Re: Rogue Servitors, they're actually decently powerful, but the biggest problem is that it's actually often optimal not to use bio-trophies. The removal of servitor morale buffs isn't so much a balance issues, as a flavor issue. The civ just feels much less unique and fun without that aspect.
 
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What about having more control over how many robomod miner/farmer/energy etc... you have per planet?

Right now it is a pain to micro-manage to get the right ratio between trait and jobs.

This is easiest to notice as mechanist.

Start game with mechanist civic. Research/unlock robomod. Realize that you can only pick an entire planet worth of robot to be robomod toward one trait and that was semi-fine under the tile system. Now with 2.2 planet? Not so much. Realistic you would have mix of farm/mine and other jobs for robots.

I would be actually very surprised to see more than maybe two or three farm or mine only planet in the early phase. Nevermind the 100 energy cost to move the robot around to where they are needed the most. IE robomod 10 farmers on a planet with only 6 farmer jobs. So you move 4 farmer off-world for 400 energy. Then another 400 energy to move miner from somewhere else on-world. Forget about the research cost as it stand right now and you would have to spend unorthodox amount of time to get it just right plus enough energy to out-strip dyson sphere late-game.

There is no way I am going to enjoy playing as either mechanist or anyone with robot labor force let alone synth/machine gestalt empire right now. The amount of time spend to min-max is too high.
 
A couple quibbles:

1) Not to be contrary, but I'm not sure I agree that the Synth Ascension pops are "quite efficient."

2) I think your point re: expansion not granting another pop is right; the biggest issue with growth is probably how hard it is to colonize without being able to build immediately. But I'm not sure robots should be required to take a specific tradition just to expand reasonably efficiently.

3) The nerfs to robo-modding are also relevant, but perhaps more substantial is the fact that you can no longer easily assign specialized pops to the right jobs. In fact, you can't even mod specific pops to be better at specific things, the way you could in 2.1. The entire modding/specializing gameplay loop feels broken, to be blunt.

4) Re: Rogue Servitors, they're actually decently powerful, but the biggest problem is that it's actually often optimal not to use bio-trophies. The removal of servitor morale buffs isn't so much a balance issues, as a flavor issue. The civ just feels much less unique and fun without that aspect.

(1) One thing to take into consideration is that the +10% yield for Synthetics applies to everything - including refined materials. That is a very, very potent boon, and it can be upped by another 5% via robo modding, and I think with all the extra trait points there should still be enough left over for another +15% yield on E or M (or even both with a negative trait pick?). The main issue is that it takes a decade or so to do that. For comparison, my gene-ascended empire will usually end up with +20% Science, +15% M, +30% growth, -10% housing, +25% TV and a -2 negative trait of choice.

(2) If anything, Machines benefit more than organics because they can "cheat" the colony phase 5 pops earlier.

(3) I'd say that is a fault of the assignment algorithm, not so much a balance issue. I hope it will get solved soon.

(4) It is a bit sad, but I saw the insane power when it was still in place. I'd say being the best unity-producing empire is still a pretty nice trait to have.

- - - - -

Looking at Assimilators, looks like Cyborgs don't even get the growth penalty from the colony stage. Hoo-wee, this is gonna be an insane game...
 
(1) One thing to take into consideration is that the +10% yield for Synthetics applies to everything - including refined materials. That is a very, very potent boon, and it can be upped by another 5% via robo modding, and I think with all the extra trait points there should still be enough left over for another +15% yield on E or M (or even both with a negative trait pick?). The main issue is that it takes a decade or so to do that. For comparison, my gene-ascended empire will usually end up with +20% Science, +15% M, +30% growth, -10% housing, +25% TV and a -2 negative trait of choice.

(2) If anything, Machines benefit more than organics because they can "cheat" the colony phase 5 pops earlier.

(3) I'd say that is a fault of the assignment algorithm, not so much a balance issue. I hope it will get solved soon.

(4) It is a bit sad, but I saw the insane power when it was still in place. I'd say being the best unity-producing empire is still a pretty nice trait to have.

1) Fair point, but again re: point (3), robo-modding is pretty frustrating to use (along with specialized pops in general).

2) But they need a building to grow, unlike organics.

3) Well... except for the fact that the underlying mechanic feels broken, not just the algorithm. You can't mod pops individually any more, you have to do it on a per-planet basis, so you can't have special energy or mineral pops without a ton of tedious micro-management, resettlement, messing with the +/- options on jobs etc.

4) Definitely powerful, just not particular unique any more. And yeah, DA is still great.