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CK2 Dev Diary #103 - Long live the King!

Greetings.

Today we will put Pagans aside, go back to good old Catholics, and explore one of the new features coming for them with Holy Fury: Coronation Ceremonies.

20180730085127_1.jpg


With this expansion, succeeding to the throne of a Catholic Kingdom or Empire will not be a simple matter of gaining the title itself. The new ruler will need to organize a Coronation Ceremony (via new intrigue decision) and be recognized as legitimate by a notable member of the Catholic Church.
If a Catholic ruler fails to be officially crowned, he will see his popularity slowly fade away each year, as his vassals grow more and more restless under what they perceive as an illegitimate King.

20180730085152_1.jpg


Coronation is divided into two phases: preparation and ceremony.
During the preparation, the ruler will decide whom he wishes to be crowned by, he will meet the Church’s demands, and invest money to organize the ceremony. In the second phase, the ruler will host the ceremony itself, interacting with guests and ultimately receiving his crown.

When organizing a ceremony, a Catholic King can choose between three possible options when it comes to officiant priests: he can be crowned by a low-status theocratic vassal within his realm, by a powerful theocratic vassal within his realm (such as a Cardinal, Antipope or Prince-Bishop), or by the Pope himself. Catholic Emperors who fail to enact the Free Investiture succession on the other hand will be limited in their selection only to the Pope.
While being crowned by a local Bishop is a lot less prestigious, it is also much cheaper, as higher-ranking members of the Church will be prone to make outlandish requests, especially if they dislike the ruler requesting them to officiate his coronation.

Coronation2.jpg


Requests may vary a lot, especially when it comes to the Pope: the Holy Father might ask you to change your realm’s Investiture laws, wage war against an Excommunicated ruler on behalf of the Papacy, or to restore some of the Central Italian provinces to the Holy See.
Be sure to be in good relations with the Pope before asking for a coronation if you wish to receive a more tolerable offer.

Once the demands of your chosen priest have been met, you will be able to select a budget for your ceremony which will determine the kind of coronation you will receive, the kind of flavor events tied to it and the number of guests participating in it.
An extravagant coronation is a prestigious event to which all your vassals, courtiers and even neighboring Christian rulers are invited, a secluded coronation is a private feast to which only your Council will have access to.

20180730091014_1.jpg


Once the ceremony has been concluded, your character will receive a specific trait tied to the priest that crowned him, as well as retain any additional perks granted by the flavor events experienced during the feast leading up to the coronation.

You might have noticed from the screenshots that this new mechanic affects character portraits as well: Catholic Kings and Emperors that have not been crowned will no longer wear the high-tier headgear in Holy Fury, defaulting to the Ducal band instead until their rank has been officially recognized by the Church (naturally, if you do not own Holy Fury, Catholic Kings and Emperors will wear the appropriate gear by default as before).

20180730091758_1.jpg


This is not the only portrait-related addition though: Holy Fury will bring to the game a series of special crown artifacts that will be visible on portraits whenever the characters are wearing them. Most of these artifacts can only be used when the character meets certain requirements and they are often tied to a specific title rather than a character’s dynasty.

Coronation6.jpg

Coronation7.jpg


And this should be about it for this week.
 
Companies pay a lot of money to get a vague understanding of what their customers want. Paradox gets a lot of very valuable economic info (that is, customers' wants) from the information they gathered, thanking active members of modding community is not a bad idea I think.

Although I guess if a mod has plenty of contributors, it can be a headache to solve

I think every game company thanks the contributions from its community by making the game moddable in the first place and by providing long-term support for modding (from the DDs it is pretty clear that PDX deeply considers the moddability of their new content)
It would be much cheaper to develop the game without moddability support mind you
 
Are there special crowns for special titles? Maybe even Crowns with give claims on titles? Like the Crown of St. Stephen? Or the archducal hat for the new Archduchy of Austria?
 
And this is the single point that gets me irritated over Holy Fury: They kinda deny that they are doing this.
Which, as you say, they obviously don't, as otherwise they would not be bringing this exclusive set of most-wished-for mod ideas to vanilla. They would maybe just have added some random features that no one (or very few people) wanted (like it happened a few times with past DLCs) - which would have been stupid and ludicrous.
They even not long ago unveiled how they were tracking mod popularity, which clearly shows that they are doing what you assume. Heck, they even changed their user agreements not long ago to allow for ingame statistics to be collected, such as which event options you click etc. Plus they explicitly reserve the right to take any mod ideas for their vanilla game in the modding rules, to make sure that everything would be 100% legal and no silly judicial fight could ensue.
Now why would they just now, at the point of their potentially best DLC to date deny that they are doing what they have presumably been preparing to do for a long time now, which is monitoring player demand and mod usage to identify the best ideas to implement. That puzzles me :confused:
We do not base our features on mods.

By "based on a mod" I mean basing itself on actual design choices made in the mod.
For the specific coronation feature itself, it is based on actual history, not on what mods have decided to do. We are of course aware that several mods implement coronations in some manner, but that is not relevant to our feature. "Let's represent coronations in some fashion" is not a significant design decision.

CK2 features are designed and implemented in their own right, not based on mods. People have spent significant time designing, implementing, and testing these features. "Based on mods" diminishes that work, much like taking mod content without credit would diminish modders' work.
 
No release date AGAIN? It's no fun anymore.

P.S. Diary is nice.
 
We do not base our features on mods.

By "based on a mod" I mean basing itself on actual design choices made in the mod.
For the specific coronation feature itself, it is based on actual history, not on what mods have decided to do. We are of course aware that several mods implement coronations in some manner, but that is not relevant to our feature. "Let's represent coronations in some fashion" is not a significant design decision.

CK2 features are designed and implemented in their own right, not based on mods. People have spent significant time designing, implementing, and testing these features. "Based on mods" diminishes that work, much like taking mod content without credit would diminish modders' work.
Oh.
Thank you for actually not just ignoring me! :cool:
I realize there might have been some confusion about what could be considered "based on mods". If you argue like you did, inspiration would indeed be an insignificant part of design choice and not justify such a statement.
I guess it really comes down to at which point you would have to credit someone's idea/work/whatever, and that of course differs a lot even for open source stuff. But asking or even demanding you to actually "credit" any mechanic/code to mods was never my intention, and I realize it might have come off wrong. And of course coronations have an historical precedent, it would be hilarious to deny this and claim the "invention" of a coronation mechanic by mods.
I would have rather imagined the internal work of you devs sort of like this: "Our telemetry on mods has paid off and we have identified areas which we should expand upon because they are frequently active in mod users' games, such as e.g. coronations. We should now proceed to research on historical examples and then design and code our own coronation mechanic to ship with a future DLC."
"Let's represent coronations in some fashion" is not a significant design decision.
Specifically this part I would have interpreted differently, but if from your perspective it is not, then very well you are not at fault (not even morally).

Anyway, I hope none of you have not felt personally offended, as I was never aiming to discredit anyone's work.
 
Here is the King post-Coronation.


Ah, yes, now I understand. No, the way in which the title is gained does not affect the Coronation. Even if you usurped a title with a weak claim from its rightful owner, if you get crowned by the Pope in an extravagant coronation, you will get the all the perks of such an illustrious coronation.
Here the trait says "a fundamental step in the legitimization of any proper Christian King"
Does that mean we can have multiple coronations, if they are of increasing status (like first a low bishop, then a strong cardinal, and then finally the Pope himself)?
Also, will that text be changed if you're an Emperor?
 
If the pope wants us to declare war for something and we've been riding at 90+% threat for the last hundred years because we're both powerful and opportunists, will that trigger all the defensive pacts and get the pope at war with us too? because i'd rather be uncrowned than have the entire world at war with me.
 
Does that mean we can have multiple coronations, if they are of increasing status (like first a low bishop, then a strong cardinal, and then finally the Pope himself)?
Also, will that text be changed if you're an Emperor?
No, it is just one coronation per ruler.
If the pope wants us to declare war for something and we've been riding at 90+% threat for the last hundred years because we're both powerful and opportunists, will that trigger all the defensive pacts and get the pope at war with us too? because i'd rather be uncrowned than have the entire world at war with me.
Yes, that is a choice that you'll need to make, if the Pope's price is too steep, you might prefer to be crowned by a more affordable clergyman.
 
Hello,
I have several questions :

- Is the uncrowned vassal malus applied only to catholic vassals ?
- Do you plan to extend this mecanic to other religions close to the catholic "style" ? The objective is to put an emphasis on the church influence in the "clasic" political game, but If im in a game where the catholic faith has been anihilated by its heresy counterpart (Fraticelli) , the heresy works in the same way, with a pope and his influence, should it have some flavour too ?
- do the pope (or the bishop) you ask for coronation change the value of its price/exigences with the solidity of you claim on the title ? For instance, could an usurper have it harder than the legitimate heir of the previous ruler ? Or if the previous ruler was excommunicated and someone brought down the king "in the name of the pope and the faith", will the new ruler have the coronation more easily ?

Anyway, thank you for your work.
 
Ok I have now decided that my first game in Holy fury will be as an minor Italian state and the goal will be to setup an antipope and then invade Rome itself. Lets see what the Pope demands for giving me a crown when I have installed him and he reports directly to me.….muhahaha (<---evil laughter)
 
Greetings.

Today we will put Pagans aside, go back to good old Catholics, and explore one of the new features coming for them with Holy Fury: Coronation Ceremonies.

View attachment 408610

With this expansion, succeeding to the throne of a Catholic Kingdom or Empire will not be a simple matter of gaining the title itself. The new ruler will need to organize a Coronation Ceremony (via new intrigue decision) and be recognized as legitimate by a notable member of the Catholic Church.
If a Catholic ruler fails to be officially crowned, he will see his popularity slowly fade away each year, as his vassals grow more and more restless under what they perceive as an illegitimate King.

View attachment 408611

Coronation is divided into two phases: preparation and ceremony.
During the preparation, the ruler will decide whom he wishes to be crowned by, he will meet the Church’s demands, and invest money to organize the ceremony. In the second phase, the ruler will host the ceremony itself, interacting with guests and ultimately receiving his crown.

When organizing a ceremony, a Catholic King can choose between three possible options when it comes to officiant priests: he can be crowned by a low-status theocratic vassal within his realm, by a powerful theocratic vassal within his realm (such as a Cardinal, Antipope or Prince-Bishop), or by the Pope himself. Catholic Emperors who fail to enact the Free Investiture succession on the other hand will be limited in their selection only to the Pope.
While being crowned by a local Bishop is a lot less prestigious, it is also much cheaper, as higher-ranking members of the Church will be prone to make outlandish requests, especially if they dislike the ruler requesting them to officiate his coronation.

View attachment 408612

Requests may vary a lot, especially when it comes to the Pope: the Holy Father might ask you to change your realm’s Investiture laws, wage war against an Excommunicated ruler on behalf of the Papacy, or to restore some of the Central Italian provinces to the Holy See.
Be sure to be in good relations with the Pope before asking for a coronation if you wish to receive a more tolerable offer.

Once the demands of your chosen priest have been met, you will be able to select a budget for your ceremony which will determine the kind of coronation you will receive, the kind of flavor events tied to it and the number of guests participating in it.
An extravagant coronation is a prestigious event to which all your vassals, courtiers and even neighboring Christian rulers are invited, a secluded coronation is a private feast to which only your Council will have access to.

View attachment 408613

Once the ceremony has been concluded, your character will receive a specific trait tied to the priest that crowned him, as well as retain any additional perks granted by the flavor events experienced during the feast leading up to the coronation.

You might have noticed from the screenshots that this new mechanic affects character portraits as well: Catholic Kings and Emperors that have not been crowned will no longer wear the high-tier headgear in Holy Fury, defaulting to the Ducal band instead until their rank has been officially recognized by the Church (naturally, if you do not own Holy Fury, Catholic Kings and Emperors will wear the appropriate gear by default as before).

View attachment 408614

This is not the only portrait-related addition though: Holy Fury will bring to the game a series of special crown artifacts that will be visible on portraits whenever the characters are wearing them. Most of these artifacts can only be used when the character meets certain requirements and they are often tied to a specific title rather than a character’s dynasty.

View attachment 408615
View attachment 408616

And this should be about it for this week.
So let's say you ask the Pope to be crowned and he asks something you don't like. Can you then ask a local bishop instead?
 
So let's say you ask the Pope to be crowned and he asks something you don't like. Can you then ask a local bishop instead?
Yes, there is a cooldown on the decision to prepare a coronation, but any request can be denied, then you can pick the decision again. You can either ask the Pope a second time (though, unless he died or really changed his opinion of you in the meantime, there is a high chance that he will remember his last request and ask it again), or go for a lower level priest.