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EU4 - Development Diary - 24th of July 2018

Good morning all! What would Tuesday be without an EU4 dev diary? Tragic, I say, so here for the last of the Summer dev diaries while the bulk of the Swedes are on vacation, I bring to you a summary of balance changes coming in the 1.26 Mughal Update. This is not exhaustive (We'll post up the full changelog closer to release) and is about changes made to the game and its existing mechanics, rather than the new stuff we've added. We'll have another Dev Diary in the future to act as a "roundup" of new mechanics and how they work.

Estates:

As we have mentioned before, Estates now cause a disaster at 100% influence rather than 80%. They also no longer have a minimum requirement for land. In addition to this:

- Confiscating estate land now gives a +5 unrest modifier in the province for 15 years. This modifier goes away if you give the land to another estate.
- Confiscating estate land now adds 25 local autonomy in the province that the estate was previously in.
- Advisors generated by Estate interactions now scale in cost depending on estate influence.
- Influence from estate events generally increased.
- Cossack Estate now gains twice as much influence per development in granted provinces.
- The cap for how much development in granted provinces can increase influence is now 50% rather than 40% for all estates.

Trade Nodes:

- Bengal trade now flows into Doab, which in turn flows into Lahore (renamed from Kashmir) undoing the injustice to these nodes.
- General renaming and reshaping of Indian trade nodes (see screenshot)
- The Katsina Trade Node now connects to Ethiopia instead of Alexandria.
- The Ethiopia Trade node now also connects to Aden.
- Coromandel flows straight to the Cape

Trade n stuff.png


In general this means more Indian trade will be able to flow around Africa into Europe without needing massive amounts of control in Aden. Zanzibar isn't quite the slush fund it used to be, but remains lucrative.

Tributaries:

Far away tributaries with no expectation of help or feasible reason to be a subject was something we're looking to change with this update. As such, the AI is no longer interested in establishing new tributary relationships with nations who do not border them. This goes for both asking and receiving requests. Existing tributaries are fine, so Ayutthaya & Khmer won't suddenly want to abandon Ming in 1444.

Speaking of Ming, 1.26 may as well be renamed the Sukhothai update, as declaring an independence war no longer calls in your overlord's Tributary overlord. Sukhothai can now declare war against Ayutthaya without Chinese intervention.

Expansion:

An issue in EU4 that we've long recognised is that conquest is almost always a good idea: you are able to immediately get a financial benefit from land, buff up your own forcelimit, size, trading potential, while at the same time denying your foes that land. We've been wanting to change this so that one has to consider what they conquer with a bit more forethought and with that we turn to your States.

Your maximum number of States is now far more important: If you hold more territories than your state limit, you will face a yearly corruption penalty, currently +0.02 per territory (not per province). For example, if you have a State Limit of 15, you can have up to 15 States AND up to 15 Territories without penalty. Overseas Colonial Regions and Trade Charter Companies are exempt from this calculation. This corruption hit is halved in Easy mode, and entirely absent in Very Easy. Additionally sending Missionaries and cultural conversion are not possible in Territories. You must make them a state to do these.

In conjunction with this, all nations' base state limit has been doubled (up from 5 to 10).

There is a define ALLOWED_TERRITORY_VS_MAX_STATES which allows you to tweak this value in defines.lua

Subjects:

In the interest in encouraging more indirect rule, holding a subject for a long time will gradually reduce their liberty desire. Subjects can now also gain trust with their overlord, instead of having it pinned at 50.
Force Limit Contribution from subjects now scales with the subject's own FL, minimum of +1 + 10% from vassals, +20% from marches.


End Game Tags:

Preventing weird country formations, like Ottomans to Byzantium or Minghals or England to Mughals to Shan to Mughals to Japan is something we're historically not very good at. It generally involves a lot of different file changes and something usually gets overlooked. In script as of 1.26 we now have a scope known as "End game tags" which will prevent most cases of such nations forming other nations (Holy Roman Empire, Rome and Papal States are so special they trump this list, eg: Byzantium can for Rome, Italy can form Holy Roman Empire...).

The current list is:

Mughals
Ottomans
Byzantium
Rome
Holy Roman Empire
Rum
Qing
Russia
Commonwealth
Japan
Yuan
Hindustan
Bharat
Arabia
Papal States
Spain
Great Britain
Italy
Germany
Ming

That's the bulkier of the balance changes. As usual, there will be more nuanced changes in the fine details to come along in the full Changelog, which we will be sharing closer to release.

We are well aware that balance changes can get people worked up and are seldom without contention. I have very fond memories of forums around the the 1.12 release. Remain civil when expressing your feelings over your favourite balance changes as, although I endeavour to explain why we make changes, there are as many opinions as eyeballs in the world. Thanks for your time.

And if Balance Changes are not your cup of tea, let's have a look at some of the other National Idea changes brought along in the 1.26 Update. We'll look over at the Bengal region, where there is now a distinction between The Bangal Sultinate, and the Bengali Minors in the area.

I love U.png


Bengal Sultanate ideas
start =
infantry_power = 0.1
global_manpower_modifier = 0.15

bonus
backrow_artillery_damage = 0.15


bng_combat_piracy =
trade_efficiency = 0.1

"Pirates have infested the waters of the Bay of Bengal for too long. We must protect traders en route to our ports by discovering and eliminating pirate havens along the Arakan coast."

bng_habshi_generals =
army_tradition = 0.5

"Abyssinian slave-soldiers purchased in Arab markets play a significant role as elite infantry soldiers. Those that excel as leaders shall be given greater levels of command, while those who demonstrate exceptional loyalty shall make up the palace guard."

bng_clearing_the_delta =
development_cost = -0.1

"The Bengal Delta contains an immense expanse of potentially very profitable land that goes unexploited due to thick forestation. We must subsidize efforts to clear the forests to make way for new farmlands, cities, and trading posts."


bng_attract_sufis =
idea_cost = -0.1

"Sufis have long been innovators of Islamic thought as well as wise councilors. If we wish to be a leading voice in the future of the Islamic world, we must patronize Sufi lodges and convince the wisest among their order to settle in our domain."

bng_conquest_of_the_gangetic_plain =
leader_land_shock = 1

"To our west are the fertile and populated lands of the Indo-Gangetic Plain. The Sultans of Bengal have long coveted its great cities and vast wealth, but only now as a new and ambitious crop of generals rise to power is our ambition likely to become a reality. We must do all we can to ready our forces for the coming conquest."

bng_rupees =
global_tax_modifier = 0.1

"The lack of a widely adopted standardized currency is stunting the development of Indian commerce. As one of the foremost economic powers in the subcontinent, we are well placed to begin the minting of a new silver coinage with standard weights, which we shall call the rupee."

bng_bengali_industrialization =
global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.1

"Bengal is uniquely situated in India to begin a revolution unlike any seen before. We stand poised to exploit new developments in our already world-class textile and shipbuilding industries. Let us begin an industrial revolution!"


Bengali Minors ideas =
start =
merchants = 1
infantry_power = 0.1
}

bonus =
prestige = 1
}


hindu_sufi_syncretism =
religious_unity = 0.5

"Beyond the eastern frontiers of the Islamic world, came Sufi mystics to settle land grants or to commune with nature in Bengal, intermingling with the Hindu population. Cooperation led to extensive land reclamations in forested and marshy areas and helped to introduce new syncretic forms of music, painting, dancing and sculpture reflected in the temples and shrines constructed during this period."

ganges_brahmaputra_confluence =
trade_efficiency = 0.1

"The mighty Ganges and Brahmaputra have traveled far to intermingle and spread out into the Bengal Delta, funneling trade and commerce in its wake. For thousands of years the area around the delta has been a natural place for the easy exchange of goods and ideas."

rice_fields =
global_manpower_modifier = 0.2

"We Bengalis are primarily rice eaters, and the rainfall and soil in the area lends itself to massive surplus rice production, with the mighty silt laden rivers and monsoon allowing for three separate growing and harvest seasons a year."

mustard_oil_ilish_mach =
war_exhaustion_cost = -0.10

"Wars may torch the granaries and markets. The weather may wither or crush the crops in the fields. Elephants and ants may try to eat what we have planted. Give us a little oil, however, and our fish-laden rivers will give us the food we Bengalis desire most!"

jute_production =
#production_efficiency = 0.1

"Native to our region, Jute is a long, soft, shiny vegetable fiber that can be spun into coarse, strong rope, matting or thread. In high demand for its resilience and relatively light weight, we can benefit from its cultivation and production."

opium_fields =
global_tax_modifier = 0.1

"What's that? People will give us gold and silver for our flowers!? The opium of our region is highly prized and easily grown, commanding twice the price of any other opium in the world. Let the trade begin!"

bengali_renaissance =
global_institution_spread = 0.1

"The Bengal Renaissance that took place in this region was a reaction to the encounter and impact of Europeans arriving for not only commerce, but for study, art and scholarship. The Bengal Renaissance blended together Hindu teachings from the past with Western education, politics and law, as well as a re-casting of Bengali culture. This led to a flourishing of the arts and sciences."

And if neither Balance changes nor National Ideas are your thing, well, swing by next week, where we'll talk about that new image you keep seeing in the buildings interface is. There are still a fair few dev diaries to come before Dharma is due to hit the shelves.
 

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Well long live the era of tall playing just for making blobbing bad how is that a smart development desciscion i was thaught to make both desciscions be good and then based on their playstyle let the player choose but no apparently just make the other one a annoyance. While there could be a bennefit for playing tall not a consequence for playing wide that its just bad desing in my opinion
 
End Game Tags:

Preventing weird country formations, like Ottomans to Byzantium or Minghals or England to Mughals to Shan to Mughals to Japan is something we're historically not very good at. It generally involves a lot of different file changes and something usually gets overlooked. In script as of 1.26 we now have a scope known as "End game tags" which will prevent most cases of such nations forming other nations (Holy Roman Empire, Rome and Papal States are so special they trump this list, eg: Byzantium can for Rome, Italy can form Holy Roman Empire...).

The only part of this DD that I very strongly disagree with. Changing culture and forming other nations is one of my favorite things about EU4.

Would it be possible to add a rules system like in CK2 where you can choose whether changing tags is allowed?
 
No, you don't. You need 20 dev in the province OR 20 innovativeness. Anyone reasonably skilled at blobbing like mad will easily hit the innovativeness number by buying high rank advisors with the mad money you generate (not to mention all the age traits that reward blobbing for the easy golden age trigger).

All right, mister pedant-o-tron, we can probably spend time discussing what a weird tacked-on weird lategame thing coal is and the alternative way to reveal it, but that's completely beside the point - Paradox have been trying to make playing tall a thing ever since the prussian government mechanic. Actually, way way way before that, too. Despite their efforts they can't seem to make the game to NOT be about conquering.
 
All right, mister pedant-o-tron, we can probably spend time discussing what a weird tacked-on weird lategame thing coal is and the alternative way to reveal it, but that's completely beside the point - Paradox have been trying to make playing tall a thing ever since the prussian government mechanic. Actually, way way way before that, too. Despite their efforts they can't seem to make the game to NOT be about conquering.

And they still won't be able as long as they keep trying to do it through buttons that give bonuses. But they don't seem to understand that. They dont understand that buttons that give bonuses is not actually a mechanic and doesnt creat gameplay. It creates strategy, but the gamestyle is still the same, but with different modifiers to play with. But again, they don't seem to understand this or just can't change it as long as they stick to EU4 and not go for an EU5.
 
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And they still won't be able as long as they keep trying to do it through buttons that give bonuses. But they don't seem to understand that.
Mostly, what is fun in video games is moving stuff around in a virtual world, with the AI /other players moving their stuff to stop you. In EUIV that's armies on a map. As long as PDX maintains that this is mainly a wargame and doesn't add non-combat units, only fun can be found in war/combat. Peace can never live up to that with only buttons at our disposal.

But that's of course all not related to this DD. Just needs to be repeated once again. Hope it sinks in. ;)
 
Mostly, what is fun in video games is moving stuff around in a virtual world, with the AI /other players moving their stuff to stop you. In EUIV that's armies on a map. As long as PDX maintains that this is mainly a wargame and doesn't add non-combat units, only fun can be found in war/combat. Peace can never live up to that with only buttons at our disposal.

But that's of course all not related to this DD. Just needs to be repeated once again. Hope it sinks in. ;)

Completely agree. And as long as they dont add that interactivness and sense of alive to peacetime mecanics (introducing some kind of CK2-Imperator characters alive AI to maybe the estates? Or trade? Or the economy?) playing tall won't ever be as popular (although I for one prefer it, even though if I have to do it imposing heavy restrictions upon myself, as I don't like blobbing, I find it extremely tedious and boring and repetitive after a point).
 
On the plus side, I guess this makes Espionage into a respectable late-game idea group since. It gives -0.1 corruption, and has policies for the same with Admin and Defensive (those two also have a policy for the same). Those 3 idea groups can therefore provide -0.4 corruption per year which would allow permanent 100 OE without corruption growth provided you can afford to buy down the rest.

This change will also make income per autonomy-modified development even more important. Which is fine for Europeans who will now be able to make (even more) massive trade income from India.

My big concern though, is that this restricts viable choices for WC even further. The missionary change means going with anything but Humanist is going to be just painful and ultra-tedious. This corruption change potentially takes Espionage from 'I guess if you really want another diplomat you might as well take it 6th or 7th' to potentially mandatory for all the corruption mitigation it unlocks.
 
All right, mister pedant-o-tron, we can probably spend time discussing what a weird tacked-on weird lategame thing coal is and the alternative way to reveal it, but that's completely beside the point - Paradox have been trying to make playing tall a thing ever since the prussian government mechanic. Actually, way way way before that, too. Despite their efforts they can't seem to make the game to NOT be about conquering.

The problem with playing tall isn't that it's not powerful - it is. It's probably the quickest and easiest route to being dominant. The problem with playing tall is that it's boring. It's interesting for one or two playthroughs when you're still getting the hang of maximising development efficiency and discovering how powerful you can become. But once you've done it, it's not all that interesting to do it again.

And this really is the problem I have with this current approach that PDS have with EU4 - instead introducing fun and engaging things to do that aren't conquering the shit out of everyone, they are instead are trying to punish that playstyle. If they found a way to make WC harder that also made it more engaging that would be great. Making the AI not terrible might be an idea, here. Unfortunately it will always be terrible as long as the team keep changing the game faster than the AI programmers can keep up. This approach is not that, though. This will just make it more railroaded and tedious.
 
I think some people are over reacting about the corruption change.

The main uproar I've seen here is the total prohibition on Missionaries converting in non-state territories. I agree that corrutpion is already bad enough as it is and it shouldn't be made worse, but I've seen FAR worse "improvements", with the worst of all time being making Merchant Republics unplyable if you extend past a certain size.

The game will still be about trying to conquer alot of land because thats way more optimal than developing.

[...]

And please drop the victim complex, we arent trying to ruin your fun, we just want our dream game fulfilled just like you do.

The game won't be about trying to conquer a lot of land if Paradox is openly punishing people who do it. This is a direct ruination of a lot of people's fun, it destroys Religious Ideas, it shuts down more unusual play styles (I'm not a Turkey --> Georgia --> Byzantium guy either, but they have that right), and it tries to force people to play a certain way by making it far harder to do so. That is a direct counter to what makes Paradox games so great.
 
I've posted in this thread when i first read it, in anger, and now i want to give some criticism with some more information regarding the state/territories change and conversions.

Here is the number of the areas in some regions:
  • Britain: 16
  • Iberia: 13
  • France: 15
  • Italy: 12
  • Low Countries: 5
  • North Germany: 18
  • South Germany: 12
  • Balkans: 11
The total is 102, or the number of states + territories that a normal nation can have without suffering penalties (without government bonuses, e.g tzardom, or ideas): the new 10 as a base, 31 from technology and 10 from empire rank.

These are not even all the provinces that someone planning on recreating the roman empire would want (North Africa, Egypt Anatolia).

Now, even a tall player should see that this is pretty excessive, as i hope even them have interest in forming Rome.

Regarding religions and culture conversion, this change would either add even more micro (by forcing players to toggle states where the plan to convert) or require the achievement "One Faith" to be renamed "More Than One Faith".
 
The early Spanish Hapsburgs essentially attempted to do this with their empire, and it ultimately played a fairly major role in the decline of the Spanish Empire in the 17th century. Converting a large empire shouldn't necessarily be impossible, but I do agree that it should be rather difficult.
Actually, the Catholic orders did the most work regarding conversion (one should also note that Catholicism is the largest religious group in the world, due to the efforts of the orders) regarding the decline of Spain, its much more complicated, most people who have no context tend to downplay Spain way too much...
 
I've posted in this thread when i first read it, in anger, and now i want to give some criticism with some more information regarding the state/territories change and conversions.

Here is the number of the areas in some regions:
  • Britain: 16
  • Iberia: 13
  • France: 15
  • Italy: 12
  • Low Countries: 5
  • North Germany: 18
  • South Germany: 12
  • Balkans: 11
The total is 102, or the number of states + territories that a normal nation can have without suffering penalties (without government bonuses, e.g tzardom, or ideas): the new 10 as a base, 31 from technology and 10 from empire rank.

These are not even all the provinces that someone planning on recreating the roman empire would want (North Africa, Egypt Anatolia).

Now, even a tall player should see that this is pretty excessive, as i hope even them have interest in forming Rome.

Regarding religions and culture conversion, this change would either add even more micro (by forcing players to toggle states where the plan to convert) or require the achievement "One Faith" to be renamed "More Than One Faith".
Btw when I play Mediterranean countries I always prioritize the annoying Berbers. I guess I won't play that region anymore until the nerf is tweaked :(
 
I wish we had a way to profit more from non-landgrab wars. Perhaps adding free/half-cost core return/revocation and tag release to certain CBs?