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EU4 - Development Diary - 24th of July 2018

Good morning all! What would Tuesday be without an EU4 dev diary? Tragic, I say, so here for the last of the Summer dev diaries while the bulk of the Swedes are on vacation, I bring to you a summary of balance changes coming in the 1.26 Mughal Update. This is not exhaustive (We'll post up the full changelog closer to release) and is about changes made to the game and its existing mechanics, rather than the new stuff we've added. We'll have another Dev Diary in the future to act as a "roundup" of new mechanics and how they work.

Estates:

As we have mentioned before, Estates now cause a disaster at 100% influence rather than 80%. They also no longer have a minimum requirement for land. In addition to this:

- Confiscating estate land now gives a +5 unrest modifier in the province for 15 years. This modifier goes away if you give the land to another estate.
- Confiscating estate land now adds 25 local autonomy in the province that the estate was previously in.
- Advisors generated by Estate interactions now scale in cost depending on estate influence.
- Influence from estate events generally increased.
- Cossack Estate now gains twice as much influence per development in granted provinces.
- The cap for how much development in granted provinces can increase influence is now 50% rather than 40% for all estates.

Trade Nodes:

- Bengal trade now flows into Doab, which in turn flows into Lahore (renamed from Kashmir) undoing the injustice to these nodes.
- General renaming and reshaping of Indian trade nodes (see screenshot)
- The Katsina Trade Node now connects to Ethiopia instead of Alexandria.
- The Ethiopia Trade node now also connects to Aden.
- Coromandel flows straight to the Cape

Trade n stuff.png


In general this means more Indian trade will be able to flow around Africa into Europe without needing massive amounts of control in Aden. Zanzibar isn't quite the slush fund it used to be, but remains lucrative.

Tributaries:

Far away tributaries with no expectation of help or feasible reason to be a subject was something we're looking to change with this update. As such, the AI is no longer interested in establishing new tributary relationships with nations who do not border them. This goes for both asking and receiving requests. Existing tributaries are fine, so Ayutthaya & Khmer won't suddenly want to abandon Ming in 1444.

Speaking of Ming, 1.26 may as well be renamed the Sukhothai update, as declaring an independence war no longer calls in your overlord's Tributary overlord. Sukhothai can now declare war against Ayutthaya without Chinese intervention.

Expansion:

An issue in EU4 that we've long recognised is that conquest is almost always a good idea: you are able to immediately get a financial benefit from land, buff up your own forcelimit, size, trading potential, while at the same time denying your foes that land. We've been wanting to change this so that one has to consider what they conquer with a bit more forethought and with that we turn to your States.

Your maximum number of States is now far more important: If you hold more territories than your state limit, you will face a yearly corruption penalty, currently +0.02 per territory (not per province). For example, if you have a State Limit of 15, you can have up to 15 States AND up to 15 Territories without penalty. Overseas Colonial Regions and Trade Charter Companies are exempt from this calculation. This corruption hit is halved in Easy mode, and entirely absent in Very Easy. Additionally sending Missionaries and cultural conversion are not possible in Territories. You must make them a state to do these.

In conjunction with this, all nations' base state limit has been doubled (up from 5 to 10).

There is a define ALLOWED_TERRITORY_VS_MAX_STATES which allows you to tweak this value in defines.lua

Subjects:

In the interest in encouraging more indirect rule, holding a subject for a long time will gradually reduce their liberty desire. Subjects can now also gain trust with their overlord, instead of having it pinned at 50.
Force Limit Contribution from subjects now scales with the subject's own FL, minimum of +1 + 10% from vassals, +20% from marches.


End Game Tags:

Preventing weird country formations, like Ottomans to Byzantium or Minghals or England to Mughals to Shan to Mughals to Japan is something we're historically not very good at. It generally involves a lot of different file changes and something usually gets overlooked. In script as of 1.26 we now have a scope known as "End game tags" which will prevent most cases of such nations forming other nations (Holy Roman Empire, Rome and Papal States are so special they trump this list, eg: Byzantium can for Rome, Italy can form Holy Roman Empire...).

The current list is:

Mughals
Ottomans
Byzantium
Rome
Holy Roman Empire
Rum
Qing
Russia
Commonwealth
Japan
Yuan
Hindustan
Bharat
Arabia
Papal States
Spain
Great Britain
Italy
Germany
Ming

That's the bulkier of the balance changes. As usual, there will be more nuanced changes in the fine details to come along in the full Changelog, which we will be sharing closer to release.

We are well aware that balance changes can get people worked up and are seldom without contention. I have very fond memories of forums around the the 1.12 release. Remain civil when expressing your feelings over your favourite balance changes as, although I endeavour to explain why we make changes, there are as many opinions as eyeballs in the world. Thanks for your time.

And if Balance Changes are not your cup of tea, let's have a look at some of the other National Idea changes brought along in the 1.26 Update. We'll look over at the Bengal region, where there is now a distinction between The Bangal Sultinate, and the Bengali Minors in the area.

I love U.png


Bengal Sultanate ideas
start =
infantry_power = 0.1
global_manpower_modifier = 0.15

bonus
backrow_artillery_damage = 0.15


bng_combat_piracy =
trade_efficiency = 0.1

"Pirates have infested the waters of the Bay of Bengal for too long. We must protect traders en route to our ports by discovering and eliminating pirate havens along the Arakan coast."

bng_habshi_generals =
army_tradition = 0.5

"Abyssinian slave-soldiers purchased in Arab markets play a significant role as elite infantry soldiers. Those that excel as leaders shall be given greater levels of command, while those who demonstrate exceptional loyalty shall make up the palace guard."

bng_clearing_the_delta =
development_cost = -0.1

"The Bengal Delta contains an immense expanse of potentially very profitable land that goes unexploited due to thick forestation. We must subsidize efforts to clear the forests to make way for new farmlands, cities, and trading posts."


bng_attract_sufis =
idea_cost = -0.1

"Sufis have long been innovators of Islamic thought as well as wise councilors. If we wish to be a leading voice in the future of the Islamic world, we must patronize Sufi lodges and convince the wisest among their order to settle in our domain."

bng_conquest_of_the_gangetic_plain =
leader_land_shock = 1

"To our west are the fertile and populated lands of the Indo-Gangetic Plain. The Sultans of Bengal have long coveted its great cities and vast wealth, but only now as a new and ambitious crop of generals rise to power is our ambition likely to become a reality. We must do all we can to ready our forces for the coming conquest."

bng_rupees =
global_tax_modifier = 0.1

"The lack of a widely adopted standardized currency is stunting the development of Indian commerce. As one of the foremost economic powers in the subcontinent, we are well placed to begin the minting of a new silver coinage with standard weights, which we shall call the rupee."

bng_bengali_industrialization =
global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.1

"Bengal is uniquely situated in India to begin a revolution unlike any seen before. We stand poised to exploit new developments in our already world-class textile and shipbuilding industries. Let us begin an industrial revolution!"


Bengali Minors ideas =
start =
merchants = 1
infantry_power = 0.1
}

bonus =
prestige = 1
}


hindu_sufi_syncretism =
religious_unity = 0.5

"Beyond the eastern frontiers of the Islamic world, came Sufi mystics to settle land grants or to commune with nature in Bengal, intermingling with the Hindu population. Cooperation led to extensive land reclamations in forested and marshy areas and helped to introduce new syncretic forms of music, painting, dancing and sculpture reflected in the temples and shrines constructed during this period."

ganges_brahmaputra_confluence =
trade_efficiency = 0.1

"The mighty Ganges and Brahmaputra have traveled far to intermingle and spread out into the Bengal Delta, funneling trade and commerce in its wake. For thousands of years the area around the delta has been a natural place for the easy exchange of goods and ideas."

rice_fields =
global_manpower_modifier = 0.2

"We Bengalis are primarily rice eaters, and the rainfall and soil in the area lends itself to massive surplus rice production, with the mighty silt laden rivers and monsoon allowing for three separate growing and harvest seasons a year."

mustard_oil_ilish_mach =
war_exhaustion_cost = -0.10

"Wars may torch the granaries and markets. The weather may wither or crush the crops in the fields. Elephants and ants may try to eat what we have planted. Give us a little oil, however, and our fish-laden rivers will give us the food we Bengalis desire most!"

jute_production =
#production_efficiency = 0.1

"Native to our region, Jute is a long, soft, shiny vegetable fiber that can be spun into coarse, strong rope, matting or thread. In high demand for its resilience and relatively light weight, we can benefit from its cultivation and production."

opium_fields =
global_tax_modifier = 0.1

"What's that? People will give us gold and silver for our flowers!? The opium of our region is highly prized and easily grown, commanding twice the price of any other opium in the world. Let the trade begin!"

bengali_renaissance =
global_institution_spread = 0.1

"The Bengal Renaissance that took place in this region was a reaction to the encounter and impact of Europeans arriving for not only commerce, but for study, art and scholarship. The Bengal Renaissance blended together Hindu teachings from the past with Western education, politics and law, as well as a re-casting of Bengali culture. This led to a flourishing of the arts and sciences."

And if neither Balance changes nor National Ideas are your thing, well, swing by next week, where we'll talk about that new image you keep seeing in the buildings interface is. There are still a fair few dev diaries to come before Dharma is due to hit the shelves.
 

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The AI also cares absolutely nothing about states/territories in every game I have played since the patch that introduced them. They would just give you a small 3 dev province in some random territory you give nothing about if you win their war for them. I really feel like the devs make changes to this game based on multiplayer games, instead of single players games (which there are more of obviously)
 
I love this changes, but I have 2 worries:
1. Won't Russia become super OP? They have 30 bonus states in lategame, so they can have 60 more territories without penalty.
2. How will WC be possible? If you have just 50 more territories then the limit you get +1 yearly coruption. The cap for rooting out is -1, so if you get more territories you will get constant corruption that you can't root out.
 
No it's capped at 0.8 in Normal and higher difficulty. Those screenshot is from an old version.

Anti fun man, really... When some of us complain about the viability of playing tall it's mostly because it"s not fun due to the lack of things to do besides improving development. By increasing develpment in good land you can still wreck everyone in single player. I could see this chanGe as a viable one in multiplayer as a toggle option, but that is about it.

It is one thing to nerf blobbing, making it harder and another to just add a negative modifier that can not be countered by good play.

From what I can see even if I try hard to deal with the corruption for a one tag:
-0.8 from paying
- 0.40 Muslim religion
- 0.06 from 3 stab
- 0.1 from ahead in tech
max - 0.4 from policies, ideas and national ideas.
So -1.76 absolute maximum which is 88 territories payable+5 base+10empire+0-10 gov type+31 max admin tech

So 131-141 max states. IDK how many states are in the game, but with over 4000 provinces I'd guess somewhere in the 1000s, if you discount trade company land and colonial probably still near enough 1000 or so. So I'll be at 100 corruption for pretty much all of the game. Yay! 100% cost to all power costs, 50% extra autonomy everywhere. Thank you, just what I wanted out a "balance" change.

Meaninfull changes devs, decisions that will make our choosen playstyle work or not based on how we handle it. Not biased uncounterable penalties for choosing to play a certain way. Give me a shout when you re-rebalance it after noticing how absurd this is.
 
Additionally sending Missionaries and cultural conversion are not possible in Territories. You must make them a state to do these. Additionally sending Missionaries and cultural conversion are not possible in Territories. You must make them a state to do these. this kills the game
 
Ming was already op. This is one of the positives of this change.

BTW, if the dev means no form in and also out MNG and thosecountry tags listed?
Totally, MNG does not enjoy the equal love which Osmanli has received before. The lonely Ming only wants to live and not be eaten by Russia and those players, Ming does not like to expand but players like Mingexposition as quick as possible...
I understand it aha...

Not mean to offend you, すみませんでした。
 
Seems pretty realistic to me. Territories are areas that you only have weak control of so you can't easily do things such as expel people of other religions, ban them from owning land or confiscate all their possessions unless they convert.
Not realistic. While it makes sense that converting is faster in lands you strongly control, this control is not necessary for missionaries to go and do their job. You don't need you king to stand right behind you to convince people to join your religion, it just speeds it up a lot.
 
This and the TC changes are a huge buff to thoughtfully directed expansion. The territory corruption is a significant nerf to mindless blobbing. My first thought is that I like it. Won't stop WCs but it will mean that holding vast amounts of territories will be costly which makes sense.

I'm not sure how much significant of a nerf it would be, I like the idea and it is a step in the right direction, but I don't know how much would actually enter into the game.

I mean, you start with 10 states, with a probable +2 from governemt, when you each you 25th territory you probably have enough DEV to become a kingdom (if you are not already) for + 5 states, when you reach you 35th territory you have probably reached tech ADM 8, maybe even 12? for another +3/6 states.
When you reach 41/47 seven you have probably enough dev to become an empire.(+5 states)
and if you conquer that much that fast you probably take Administrative idea group (+5 states)

So, it would make WC by 1520 a little harder, but many games would probably not be touched until quite late.
 
I am quite surprised about the expansion/state change and appreciate the intention behind it.
Not sure if it will work out in the end or unbalance some nations like Russia while not affecting Europe much but I will give it the benefit of doubt. The 2x State cap also is a very generous limit.

Whats kinda strange is that TC are exempted and recieve a buff. They were already very strong and look pretty OP now on paper.
 
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I don't understand all these people in the thread. You are so happy that ''expansion just got harder'' by gaining corruption for non-statified land, but when you can't convert them (WHICH LITERALLY MAKES EXPANSION HARDER AS WELL) it's suddenly a problem? The "expansion gets harder by this change" argument does not hold up in this case.

If you can't convert provinces that aren't full cores in states, that's "expansion getting harder," and I'm fine with that. The only problem for me is if you CAN convert provinces that are only territorial cores as long as they're in a state. That would mean that you have to keep a state open and go around stating and destating areas to be able to convert. So you CAN still do it, it just requires an irritating amount of micromanagement. That would be a bad change, because it doesn't ultimately make things more challenging, just more laborious and annoying.
 
I realise that trade companies are somewhat of a focus in this expansion, but have you considered tuning them down slightly regardless? Even previously they were often the most effective province type in the game (comparable benefits to a state, without the full admin investment), and now they'll entirely bypass the territory limitations you've imposed to restrict blobbing a smidge. Don't get me wrong, I like these restrictions, I'd just like there to not be an easy/strong way to largely nullify them.
 
What’s the meaning of blocking conversion of territory? We can still spare a couple of state slots and use these to convert newly conquered provinces. If you don’t add penalty for turning state to territory or don’t block conversion of provinces with territoral core, it will just annoy players without meaningful balance change.
 
Additionally sending Missionaries and cultural conversion are not possible in Territories. You must make them a state to do these.

Not sure if nerf to religious idea, or buff to humanism, but this is probably the change that will effect most of our games.
 
1. Won't Russia become super OP? They have 30 bonus states in lategame, so they can have 60 more territories without penalty.
First, keep in mind this is a DLC feature. Secondly, I don't think so. I actually fear the opposite. It now makes little sense for Russia to colonize Siberia. It's a lot of 1/1/1 provinces and low-value territories, bringing you closer and closer to loads of free corruption. By 1710 when the age bonus finally kicks in (if you own the DLC) it probably just offsets a lot of corruption you've already been suffering for 100 years. Or of course you play a-historically and don't colonize at all. Expanding into Europe and towards India is just so much more lucrative that willfully incurring corruption for Siberian land seems like a bad deal.
 
Hardly a realistic example. If you have even 20 territories in the 1500s you're certainly an empire and very likely completed Admin ideas, so your state limit is at least 10 (base) + 10 (empire) + 5 (admin finisher) + 3/6 (tech) + 1-5 (government) = 29-36.

You need 1000 dev to be an empire, an average of 50 dev for state is, while not impossible, hardly 'certain'.
 
I like a lot of these changes, but

Additionally sending Missionaries and cultural conversion are not possible in Territories. You must make them a state to do these.

Is something I don't like, as it renders One Faith runs considerably more difficult, or even just hitting a high religious unity even for just the Roman Empire, as you won't have enough states to cover everything you need. The obvious workaround you're trying to encourage is vassals, but the diplo-relations slot puts an upper cap on this.
 
The AI also cares absolutely nothing about states/territories in every game I have played since the patch that introduced them. They would just give you a small 3 dev province in some random territory you give nothing about if you win their war for them. I really feel like the devs make changes to this game based on multiplayer games, instead of single players games (which there are more of obviously)

They dont do SP games, they only do one MP game, a couple of timelapses once in awhile and call it a day. At least looking at this patch i can feel that way.
 
Can't say I'm a fan of the next version further limiting tag switching. Why do this? Wacky stuff like Minghals or creative conquests such as Daimyo -> Japan -> Roman Empire keeps the game fun and adds further replayability with players making their own challenges. Some people really enjoy runs with creative tag switching, and even though I don't often incorporate it in my own playstyle, I can fully sympathize with it. Honestly, I don't see what this could add to this the single player game at all. I'd even go as far to say it is unintentionally anti-fun. Stuff like Minghals progressed to having a few more steps in-between, but now it'll just be a middle finger to people who want to put in the effort to do these sorts of things, which doesn't hurt gameplay at all.

I understand balancing certain things like not letting very strong countries like the Ottomans tag switch into whoever, but there's often quite a few restrictions as it is, especially as some of these tags require a fair bit of effort in the first place to form. A player who can readily tag switch into many tags likely has made the world their oyster, I don't see the point in limiting it quite to this extent. If this were perhaps optionally implemented in multiplayer only, I could understand it for balancing reasons.

On another note, the corruption for territories seems... interesting. It makes sense, though I'm sure it will need some tweaking or other ways to counteract it that isn't simply sinking massive amounts of income into it, as I feel like it could get out hand really quickly playing as certain nations, especially if going for WCs.
 
Additionally sending Missionaries and cultural conversion are not possible in Territories. You must make them a state to do these. Additionally sending Missionaries and cultural conversion are not possible in Territories. You must make them a state to do these. this kills the game

This kills stupid and unrealistic blobbing.
 
First, keep in mind this is a DLC feature. Secondly, I don't think so. I actually fear the opposite. It now makes little sense for Russia to colonize Siberia. It's a lot of 1/1/1 provinces and low-value territories, bringing you closer and closer to loads of free corruption. By 1710 when the age bonus finally kicks in (if you own the DLC) it probably just offsets a lot of corruption you've already been suffering for 100 years. Or of course you play a-historically and don't colonize at all. Expanding into Europe and towards India is just so much more lucrative that willfully incurring corruption for Siberian land seems like a bad deal.

You are forgetting that Russia only have to spend 10 diplomatic MP to colonization Siberia per provinces with Third Rome DLC.

Throw in the colonist improve your development over time on dozens of 1/1/1 provinces up to 20 or w/e. Then it is no longer a joke.