HoI4 Dev Teasers (previously Podcat's Twitter Teasers)

[hkrommel]

On the one hand I find it extremely interesting from a psychological standpoint how personally insulted some people are when PDX proposes some non-democratic path for the US

It's not personal insult, but rather annoyance at the direction development is taking. I would much rather see the development time that went into the alternate history German, US, UK, and Japan trees go into a historical and plausible alt-history USSR tree, for example. Then we wouldn't be stuck waiting for that until the next DLC release, and the USSR sorely needs a rework.

When it comes to fascism I can tell you as a historically well-educated German that the path from conservatism to fascism to much, much shorter that you think.

I can tell you as a historically well-educated person generally that thinking that the confluence of factors that led to German fascism is practically applicable anywhere outside Germany is ignorant, and using such blanket terms as "conservatism" to describe disparate ideologies that differ widely between nations in terms of actual belief and practice is irresponsible.

 

[Sourlol]

I love Alt History...thats why we all play this game. If we didn't we'd just watch WW2 in Color.

Even the most stringent historical player isnt committing 100% mirror forces in every engagement. Even he is engaging in alt history.

What I want isnt historical and a historical focus options. I want a game that responds to me. If I am playing the UK and I play the game as close to real life as possible I want the game to play out close to real ww2. If I play ahistorical I want the game to make sensible deviations in response to my decisions.

At the same time, I want my decisions to be constrained within a framework that mirrors reality. as others pointed out the elections of 1932 and 1936 and 1940 all show less than 3% of the electorate was interested enough in communism or 'fascism' to go out and vote for it. Communist and Fascist uprising is so far away from what they should be focusing their alt history with the US on. Its a 2 party country with elections every other year. Focus on every presidential and midterm election from 1936 - 1948, allow for snowballs to form. the 1938 midterms going to the GOP may not lose FDR the presidency in 1940, but along with more GOP victories in the legislature, maybe the US isn't feeling so gungho about invading Cointinental Europe in 44--it is a war on foreign shore, after all and Hitler never attacked us.

Perhaps make FDRs death variable dependent on World Tension and American involvement in it. If the US gets involved in a shooting war prior to Dec 7, 41 add increased chances FDR dies earlier than he did RL. Maybe he dies before 1942.

Whatever, its Democratic Politics anything can happen. Eleanor Roosevelt stood a better chance of being President than the dissolution of the Constitution and replacement with a Sickle or Swastika.

 

[GSP Jr]

The thought that the US would have another Civil War in the timeline of the game is just silly. There were still veterans of the first alive in the late 30's - FDR spoke at a Gettysburg dedication/reunion. There was no way CW would have happened again. These days tho, it would seem much more believable.

 

[a_sophist]

I love Alt History...thats why we all play this game. If we didn't we'd just watch WW2 in Color.

This is a common argument, and I don't know why. It's not as if the game either needs to be a documentary or complete anarchy, the question is what degree of player freedom is desirable. Clearly, for a great many people it's "as much as possible without literally copying EU IV mechanics" rather than the more modest "how can I retool Germany's industry and strategic focuses to secure a fascist Europe."

 

[Sighfer]

Nobody was prosecuted, one person was questioned, and it all amounted to nothing.

That's the thing with right-wing coups, the establishment is perfectly fine with them, and, at most, gives the guilty a slap on the wrist. (Kapp Putsch, Beer Hall Putsch)

During which there was no evidence of any extremism taking hold.

False. FDR's Recession could have had very dire consequences, if FDR didn't quickly rectify the situation. Wildcat strikes can quickly become general strikes, which are a hair away from revolution.

 

[Captured Joe]

Neither are viable, in any sense of the word.

About as viable as Hungary restoring the Austro-Hungarian Empire or Japan going Communist...

 

[Robosoldier1]

Why does it have to be viewed as pursuit of alt-history is an abandonment of historical? I prefer to see it as the alt-history funding historical foundations. Foundations that the modders can expand upon.

When most of the actual historically relevant attributes are overlook then it becomes an issue. Paradox for the most part has skimmed over alot of the "player interactive" components of their game including much of the weight that is tied into the historical realities and challenges of the time. Instead they use focus trees, which by design devoid the players of any real substantial choice either then "lets wait 70 days and watch as the story plays out." It doesn't make it feel like YOUR steering the ship but the game steering YOU. Which for me does not really scream the "historic WW2 grand strategy game" where they put you the player in the situation to manage, contend and interact your way through the most dynamic period of world history while handling the internal dynamics and external dynamics pertaining to each relevant power involved in the war.

At the same time most of these DLCs can be described as more "patch works" then actual substantial content additions. Yes they are reworking major systems (basically everything military) and they add some good sub mechanics mainly those of worth being events/decisions, fuel and maybe the puppet system. But that pales in comparison of what could've been provided with the base launch or added over the stupid alt-history sections of the trees. Which I will argue is just paradox being lazy and using a cheap method of money making over prioritizing more relevant forms of content that allow the game to flow and operate more interestingly. At the moment the content development is pretty much 2/3rds meme 1/3rd depth, relevancy and applicability, and that to me simply decreases value and lowers the potential of this game by a large margin. As well as steer the game into a direction it doesn't have to go down. Paradox sold a million copies of the game as announced by the recent Paradoxcon so telling me there craving for money is as ill founded as saying that communist USA, Kaiser Germany and Communist Japan actually being a thing during the course of this set of events.

 

[hkrommel]

That's the thing with right-wing coups, the establishment is perfectly fine with them, and, at most, gives the guilty a slap on the wrist. (Kapp Putsch, Beer Hall Putsch)

There's a world of difference between inebriated ranting of a single individual, coaxed by another individual, backed up by non-actionable hearsay, and actual attempts to take over the government. Until you present some evidence that the Business Plot was anything more than the former you don't have a credible argument. I also find it funny you keep characterizing it as a "right-wing coup" when Butler was a noted anti-capitalist and leftist.

False. FDR's Recession could have had very dire consequences, if FDR didn't quickly rectify the situation. Wildcat strikes can quickly become general strikes, which are a hair away from revolution.

You clearly know nothing of the United States, or at the very least are so convinced by your own desired narrative that you're willing to shoehorn contrary or neutral facts and circumstances to support things they do not. Plus you haven't addressed my previous post in any detailed manner.

This is a common argument, and I don't know why. It's not as if the game either needs to be a documentary or complete anarchy, the question is what degree of player freedom is desirable. Clearly, for a great many people it's "as much as possible without literally copying EU IV mechanics" rather than the more modest "how can I retool Germany's industry and strategic focuses to secure a fascist Europe."

This. Nuance is so lacking in these discussions.

 

[Telenil]

I'm not into alternate history, I play for variations on WW2. But it's fairly obvious the player base wants those whacky scenarios, which does not surprise me due to the overlap with the CK2 and EU4 player bases.

The most popular nation in Death or Dishonor is Hungary, and that's entirely due to the Restore Austria-Hungary path. The most popular is mod is Kaiserreich, a giant web of overlapping alt-histories. Paradox didn't plan to make so much alt-history, and only did it when they realized it was so popular. You can agree or disagree with how the direction the game is taking, but I think it's not too difficult to understand why they are doing this. Especially when, as someone else said, all the major reworks are free.

 

[Theodorian]

When most of the actual historically relevant attributes are overlook then it becomes an issue. Paradox for the most part has skimmed over alot of the "player interactive" components of their game including much of the weight that is tied into the historical realities and challenges of the time. Instead they use focus trees, which by design devoid the players of any real substantial choice either then "lets wait 70 days and watch as the story plays out." It doesn't make it feel like YOUR steering the ship but the game steering YOU. Which for me does not really scream the "historic WW2 grand strategy game" where they put you the player in the situation to manage, contend and interact your way through the most dynamic period of world history while handling the internal dynamics and external dynamics pertaining to each relevant power involved in the war.

At the same time most of these DLCs can be described as more "patch works" then actual substantial content additions. Yes they are reworking major systems (basically everything military) and they add some good sub mechanics mainly those of worth being events/decisions, fuel and maybe the puppet system. But that pales in comparison of what could've been provided with the base launch or added over the stupid alt-history sections of the trees. Which I will argue is just paradox being lazy and using a cheap method of money making over prioritizing more relevant forms of content that allow the game to flow and operate more interestingly. At the moment the content development is pretty much 2/3rds meme 1/3rd depth, relevancy and applicability, and that to me simply decreases value and lowers the potential of this game by a large margin. As well as steer the game into a direction it doesn't have to go down. Paradox sold a million copies of the game as announced by the recent Paradoxcon so telling me there craving for money is as ill founded as saying that communist USA, Kaiser Germany and Communist Japan actually being a thing during the course of this set of events.

This. This. This. Hearts of Iron 4 is the LEAST engaging Paradox game ever. Focus Tree's seem like content but they're not. You press one button every 70 days in game then.. wait. Hearts of Iron is not complex, and it's not deep.

- Doomstacks.
- Teleporting airplanes.
- Wild, wild Alt-History.
- No Fuel.
- Can't even play out WW2 with "Historical Focuses"
- No cryptography / deception / espionage.

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

Paradox sold a million copies of the game as announced by the recent Paradoxcon so telling me there craving for money is as ill founded ...

Maybe the fact that they are catering to their main customer base is why they have sold a million copies?

 

[Sourlol]

I'm not into alternate history, I play for variations on WW2.

...that is alt history. Everything short of replaying WW2 exactly as it happened with the same divisions committed to the same battles on the same days is alt history. Paradox largely ignores the subset of the community who want "low"(in the definition of low and high fantasy, for example) alt history or realistic alt history.

 

[Alex_brunius]

They sold their game on faulty and misleading marketing and nothing else. Look at all the trailers for the game and tell me otherwise. Seriously try to convince me that they didn't establish the premise of this game was going to be engrained into a historic plausible reality world war 2 game until they saw an easy method to earn easy money from smucks who would rather be like drew durnil and watch the AI fumble around in a meme scenario then get involved themselves and use their brain to figure out an interworked and well crafted system, in one of the most dynamic times of world history.

The lack of appreciation and depth that initially was forecasted and hoped for on launch with the subsequent first 3 DLCs has effectively been being whitewashed simply because they don't care to develop their game any deeper then a puddle because people like YOU don't seem to care to have them develop their game. Tell me any other modern (2016 and on) Video game that delves into World War 2 on the scope and scale that it does in this format that is grand strategy? That delves into the political, social, economical and military ambitions and challenges that these countries had. This set of events still resonates in our modern sphere of life and your telling me I'm insane to ask for more when they themselves showed they were expected to provide more? Overall Congratulations your the easy target to satisfy and somehow make up the "majority" of those who are contempt to see the game get reduced to an even bigger joke then it is.

So uhm... Why are they adding fuel again?

To get easy money from smucks who care nothing for historical accuracy you say?

Oh... but...

 

[Robosoldier1]

So uhm... Why are they adding fuel again?

To get easy money from smucks who care nothing for historical accuracy you say?

Oh... but...

Ya because that wasn't an already established core mechanic of the series and is only now getting added after 2 years of bitching by people who know this is one of the weakest titles in the series. This is another problem of the gaming community in general. There is the newer smucks who don't care and the veterans that act like they should be benevolent to Paradox to include such critical elements in the game again when by all definitions it should've been included in the first place. Streamlining vs. gutting the game of any depth are 2 entirely different dynamics of development. Removing fuel as a critical balancing and game play factor for players to consider is as stupid as it was for Total war to remove bridge battles, ruin siege battles, restrict the players ability to conquer and expand anywhere they like and so on. "Ya lets get rid of all the things that got people interested in our title in the first place... and resell it them!"

Gee I feel so grateful.

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

because they don't care to develop their game any deeper then a puddle because people like YOU don't seem to care to have them develop their game.

People like me?

Overall Congratulations your the easy target to satisfy and somehow make up the "majority" of those who are contempt to see the game get reduced to an even bigger joke then it is.

Just pointless to even respond to that statement.

 

[Robosoldier1]

People like me?



Just pointless to even respond to that statement.

Ya people that make up this self inserted "majority" of yours. Those that think that because they don't have a high degree of interest in history that it shouldn't be looked more into and often be situated on the backburner (as shown by the recent trailer for man the guns). Even though the entirety of the game is foundationally tied into the historical reality of WW2. Your more willing to sacrifice long term depth and management for short term spurts of entertainment. Which this title is not that type of game and only makes it more disappointing to see, Paradox, the supposed Kings of Grand strategy fall prey to such a cash grab opportunity because again they see a large and willing segment of people to accept the bare minimum.

You don't want to respond to that particular point because you know it has merit to it. Your not here for the scenario that is WW2 you don't care if it goes any further then to the extent of depth it currently is. As long as Paradox spits out DLC focus trees in which you can play out your fantasy scenarios then your content. I'm here to explore and interact with a war that shaped the earth and countless amounts of people. I want to be able to sit myself in the position those leaders faced and take on the challenges they encompassed. I want to manage a nation and steer it down the path to success through the environment developing around at that point in history. From shores of the Americas to the tundras of Russia, From the seas of the Pacific to the skies of Europe I want to actually feel like I am getting more worth in the title that I presumed to be a WW2 game. Instead of this encouraged memey bullshit.

 

[Fulmen]

Ya people that make up this self inserted "majority" of yours.

You'd think given the sentiment on the forums that the majority of people who play this game don't even want this fantasy "alt-history" crap. But according to PDX it's insanely popular.

And then when you look at the average all welcome gamer in MP, you realise PDX is probably right in that this garbage actually sells well.

Sad times for those of us who want the game to be grounded at least in some level of reality.

 

[Robosoldier1]

You'd think given the sentiment on the forums that the majority of people who play this game don't even want this fantasy "alt-history" crap. But according to PDX it's insanely popular.

And then when you look at the average all welcome gamer in MP, you realise PDX is probably right in that this garbage actually sells well.

Sad times for those of us who want the game to be grounded at least in some level of reality.

Just frustrates to me to no end. When did people stop thinking the real life event was less interesting then some crooked fantasy that took maybe half a week at most to compile? Its not even like there good alternative history scenarios. Its more "hey this is relative to history/nation in some form so it should be applicable now right?" NO of course not, I came to play hearts of iron a WW2 series not hearts of europa: Stellaris edition if i wanted so much disjointed from the actual events of WW2 id go play there other titles as they fit and prioritize those settings alot better then anything the hearts of Iron team can solely do themselves.

 

[Fulmen]

Just frustrates to me to no end. When did people stop thinking the real life event was less interesting then some crooked fantasy that took maybe half a week at most to compile? Its not even like there good alternative history scenarios. Its more "hey this is relative to history/nation in some form so it should be applicable now right?" NO of course not, I came to play hearts of iron a WW2 series not hearts of europa: Stellaris edition if i wanted so much disjointed from the actual events of WW2 id go play there other titles as they fit and prioritize those settings alot better then anything the hearts of Iron team can solely do themselves.

While EU4 is very removed from reality, at least there's still some idea of realism in it. Sure, you can permanently hold on to land that would've been impossible to hold on to IRL, and in SP paint the world your colour even without exploits. But there's repercussions to your actions and nations are generally guided by their historical goals.

Conversely, HoI4 is just "lmao USA just flipped fascist in 12 months", "oh Japan just deposed the Emperor in 1936", "look, Manchukuo proclaimed itself Qing China", etc. It's basically just a meme simulator with WW2 themed graphics. The level of historical accuracy the game can provide even in "historical" mode is a joke and pales in comparison to every single previous HoI game.

 

[Daelyn75]

That is weird. I ran into that song for the first time a few days ago while putting together more songs for my HOI IV modding.