When the Clans arrive, how do you think they should be implemented?

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
It's a strawman because it's a singular example taken completely out of context, ie the fact they only have three worlds, and seeks to put anyone who disagrees with the position of arguing with the BT devs themselves.

Inner Sphere Tech means they posses that kind of technological level, that doesn't mean every planet with the 'Inner Sphere' modifier is an industrial world capable of everything associated with it. There are agricultural worlds, metropolitan worlds, trading hubs, industrial powerhouses, mining worlds, etc. I do not expect a bunch of farmers or a penal colony to possess the industrial base to build war machines.

If the average IS world cannot build or maintain mechs, how are there any still operational or being built? Why would a decrepit "space station," rebuilt basically from the ground up by Periphery powers, have the means to do so when an IS industrial world like Detroit does not? The truth is the IS has its own backwaters, its own kinds of planets. Not every planet is the same even if they possess similar tech and industry. A truck factory may be state of the art but it does not generally possess the means to produce tanks.

And by-the-by, the Argo is most certainly a DropShip, described as such in-game and by other canon criteria.

Just couse a country is small doesnt equall their lacking in knowledge, Sweden as a country is more advanced the USA in some fields, for example internet infrastructure... Does USA have a massive bigger production capability, yes sure... There is planets that have inner sphere knowledge, and the fact that Magistracy of Canopus supports them... As rare as mechs is, if they cant repair griffins when their at inner sphere tech, when at war... when we can with a LOS tech space station ship...

Again, thats a fact, no IS is far from recovered in 3025...

Edit about the Argo, i suggest you actually read the files that describes the Argo ingame, shes a flying space station, that the leopard docks is just couse its not ment to land by itself...
 
Last edited:
[QUOTE="

...And by-the-by, the Argo is most certainly a DropShip, described as such in-game and by other canon criteria.

Just to jump in on this point only. Sarna readily admits their entry is " This source does not meet the current criteria for Canon, and is thus treated as apocryphal at this time."

In game (think it's part of a conversation). it is also mentioned the Argo is not a dropship. It carries the Leopard, it can't drop on it's own. It is a flying spacestation, not capable of combat.

OK, that's it, I'm done, continue your debate, it was about dirty clanners, wasn't it? :D[/QUOTE]

My understanding is that this entry is simply out of date. It was listed as non-canon at the time because the game hadn’t been released at the time the entry was written. It wouldn’t count as canon until the game came out. So now it is canon.
 
Well, my own 2 C-bills on this matter:

I think that they should progress the timeline chronologically. Give us a 4SW expac (meaning at least a campaign), then a War of 3039 possibly, and then--and only then--the Clans.

And there should be two parts to the Clan Expansion Pack. And this is due to narrative considerations. The main issue with playing Clan vs. IS during the Invasion is that there is literally no way you can 'win' such a campaign. All roads lead to Tukayyid, there. I guess maybe Wolf, but that's not likely...

So you have two parts. The first part would be to play the part of a Clan Star participating in the Trials leading up to the Clan Invasion. The Trials of Participation that determined who would be allowed to invade the IS. Select a Clan that (canonically) wins. Your job is to ensure that your Clan participates in the Great Crusade.

That gives you a suitably 'winning' narrative while also showcasing Clan culture and, more importantly, zellbrigen, the batchall, and general Clan bidding behavior. And, this is crucial, have the game enforce zellbrigen. Did a Mech fire at you? No? Then you can't fire at it. Period. Have a toggle to violate zellbrigen, but be prepared for the consequences.

The second part would be the IS fighting against the Clan invasion as that, again, can lead to a 'victory' ending narratively. 'Bend' the rules a bit and make 3050-era Tech more widely available so it's Clan tech vs. 3050 IS tech, and you get the 'somewhat better but lower than Clan vs. 3025' feel some people say they want. If you like, have your merc unit called up (or sent out) only after the first few Waves, so the tech level is more equitable. And then, yes, you are fully expected to use Clan rules of engagement against them. This is done by virtually all armed forces that suffer a power imbalance of the level here discussed. As pointed out, the Clans are technically far superior to the IS--particularly 3025 tech--but they are at best no better than the IS in tactics and outright terrible at strategic thinking, outside of a very few (such as Ulric Kerensky).

In any event, all hail Myndo Waterly, Precentor Dieron of the First Circuit.
 
Just couse a country is small doesnt equall their lacking in knowledge, Sweden as a country is more advanced the USA in some fields, for example internet infrastructure... Does USA have a massive bigger production capability, yes sure... There is planets that have inner sphere knowledge, and the fact that Magistracy of Canopus supports them... As rare as mechs is, if they cant repair griffins when their at inner sphere tech, when at war... when we can with a LOS tech space station ship...

Again, thats a fact, no IS is far from recovered in 3025...

Edit about the Argo, i suggest you actually read the files that describes the Argo ingame, shes a flying space station, that the leopard docks is just couse its not ment to land by itself...
upload_2018-5-7_17-32-51.jpeg


It's described as "Like a mobile space station, in a sense." Here's the rest of what Dr. Murad had to say, emphasis on the last line of the first paragraph, if you'd simply exhaust or pay attention to her dialogue... And I'll just repost those Sarna links too...
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Argo_(Individual_Argo-class_DropShip)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Argo_(DropShip_class) (look specifically where it says when the game is released it will more than likely be declared canon, and even then since we're only talking about it in a one off sense, we only have the game's description to go off of)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Behemoth_(DropShip_class) (and here's precedence for DropShips that can't land on planets)

I never said they "lacked knowledge." I said they lacked the industrial base. Even if the Aurigan Coalition had facilities to build 'Mechs, they are in the possession of the Espinosa Directorate at the start of the campaign, as, again, the Arano Restoration only has three backwater planets under their control at the time when they sell the Griffins to the Mercs. Go play HOIV as someone like one of the Chinese puppets of Japan and try to build a military infrastructure. Even if you could supply a basic army, it would be impossible to build up an army of tanks able to take on China, Japan, or the USSR because:
A) You would need someone to sell you the license
B) You need to sacrifice your other military infrastructure to build a paltry amount of tanks
C) No one will just *give* you tanks because you are not at war, they have no desire for some upstart nation to possess a large or semi-modern military arsenal, or they simply prop up the regime because it is supposed to be a distraction for a hostile regime, not a legitimate government.

It's ludicrous to to think a third- or fourth- rate regional power would be able to devote massive amounts to creating a modern army, moreso when that power has had almost all of its industry occupied. Look at Sweden, your example, at WWII. All of its armor designs are licensed models of old and outdated foreign tanks, and they only produced a paltry amount, 106, of the most modern Czech designs at the time. Today, if the Swedish army came into possession of tons of American or Russian tanks, they wouldn't have the personnel or the means to maintain and crew them, even if they had their own designs.

Look at another nation, the Netherlands, regarded as one of the richer countries in Europe today and at the time, had absolutely no industry, or inclination, to spare for the construction of tanks.
Then we have Poland, a true regional power with a large arms industry rivalling that of the Czechs. Even they only produced outdated tankettes no match for actual tanks, instead producing more useful rifles or anti-tank guns or aircraft etc (funny thing the Czechs, they also had a large arms industry but then suddenly couldnt produce anymore when their entire country was occupied).

And finally we have the Soviets, one of the two preeminent powers at the end of the war. They were entirely able to produce their own tanks and their own designs, and they captured swaths of German tanks. They made no effort to maintain these tanks though, because they considered them to be too expensive for their benefits, mechanically unreliable, and incompatible in general with the Soviet doctrine. They would use them, if they worked, but only until they broke, whereupon they were abandoned or used for target practice (we use UrbanMechs as target practice in the campaign, what a coincidence). They definitely had the *means* to maintain the captured tanks (something the Arano Restoration does not since its only three backwaters at the start of a campaign), it was simply more trouble than it was worth and the resources put to better use maintaining their own designs or building more.

The Directorate is stated as being able to produce its own 'Mechs, but it is also stated they field more than their industrial base could support, this is due to them recieving arms shipments from other IS members (huh how or why would IS states support a backwater with 'Mechs if they're desperate for 'Mechs themselves?). This leads one to believe they retooled their industry to maintain what they recieve rather than try to create their own, since they have a generous benefactor they do not need native industry. This mirrors post-war countries in Europe, recieving arms from either the Soviets or the Americans.
 

Attachments

  • upload_2018-5-7_17-34-6.jpeg
    upload_2018-5-7_17-34-6.jpeg
    191,1 KB · Views: 7
As they said in The Princess Bride, "Good luck storming the castle boys!"

HBS has publicly stated Clans are on the backburner for the foreseeable future. Yet guys keep posting to this thread like Clans will be the sequel to this game.

Not to mention, Clans arguably broke the original game system for tabletop. Heat management became less important as well as min range for some key weapons. I could go on, but most has already been said.
 
As they said in The Princess Bride, "Good luck storming the castle boys!"

HBS has publicly stated Clans are on the backburner for the foreseeable future. Yet guys keep posting to this thread like Clans will be the sequel to this game.

Not to mention, Clans arguably broke the original game system for tabletop. Heat management became less important as well as min range for some key weapons. I could go on, but most has already been said.

I think there's a distinct difference between 'what do you think the Clans should be like when they get here' (i.e., the ostensible subject of this thread) and 'the Clans are obviously going to be the first thing out the gate'.

If that is insufficient, I would submit that due to the controversy that Clan tech--and apparently only their tech--creates in the game, it is smart to get information and ideas out and thoroughly hash them out so that it can be done properly.
 
I think there's a distinct difference between 'what do you think the Clans should be like when they get here' (i.e., the ostensible subject of this thread) and 'the Clans are obviously going to be the first thing...

The way games are designed and financed, a Clan-centric game is years away...at best. It might never happen.

Devoting time and energy to game design which is years away and may never happen seems to be intuitively silly at best and a monumental waste of bandwidth at worst.
 
The way games are designed and financed, a Clan-centric game is years away...at best. It might never happen.

Devoting time and energy to game design which is years away and may never happen seems to be intuitively silly at best and a monumental waste of bandwidth at worst.

HBS is devoting zero time and very little (if anything) to the maintenance of this thread. ;) I just consider it a resource if/when they ever get to that point.
 
Based on the success of BattleTech so far, the fanbase's love for the Clans, and the potential money to be made from a Clan-themed expansion, I think this as a valid discussion to have.

Personally, I'd like to see some limitations between IS and Clan engagements. I think the Clans should mainly fight amongst themselves, along with maybe some premade scenarios for IS versus Clan battles with predetermined mechs. The reason for this is balance, and the evidence is in MWO, which granted is a different game, but exemplifies the struggle with balancing IS and Clan in the same sandbox.

As far as a campaign might go for a Clan expansion, I think it would be amazing to be mostly Clan-on-Clan action, with maybe a sprinkle of the initial IS invasion, maybe like an 85%/15% split.

Lastly, I would really like to see some sort of bidding system within any potential Clan campaign. Bidding for the right to do battle is such a huge part of Clan culture, and some clever design could turn it into a very interesting strategic component of a campaign. You would earn more honor by lowballing a bid and pulling off a win in a tough fight, but having to withdraw, eject, or losing mechs or mechwarriors would have negative effects on your honor to varying degrees. Honor could be used as currency to unlock different mechs or omni variants, to attempt Trials of Position for promotions, to recruit warriors to your Star/Binary/Trinary, and, eventually, to fight for the honor of a Bloodname.

So how would you like to see the Clans added to BattleTech? Share your thoughts!

I would introduce the Clans in a similar way to how they did it in MechWarrior.

MW1 was 3025 IS

MW2 was the Clan Wolf, Clan Jade Falcon Tiral in preparation for the Inner Sphere invasion.

MW2 Mercs was IS Mercs up until a late game mission where you were jumped, mid mission, by Clan Wolf and challenged on the spot. That was so unexpected, and SOOOOO Epic, that a similar introduction to the Clans would be AMAZING in this game

MW3 was IS Merc company during the Clan War where you were pitted against both IS and Clan enemies and ended up salvaging and fielding Clan tech against them

MW4 was post invasion with third generation IS and Clan Tech together. It included missions across the board and across all three expansions (Vengeance, Black Knight, and Mercs)

The progression of those games was very, very cool, and I could see them doing something similar. I think it would be extremely cool if you could set a year for your campaign to begin and have the campaign events/milestones determined by the timeline.

Maybe:
IS
3025 start - Current Campaign
3050 start - Clan Invasion
3060 start - IS invasion of Clan Space
3066 start - WOB Campaign
3088 start - Dark Age

Clan
3025 start - Wolf's Dragoons (Start with Trials and then IS Merc Campaign, have Natasha Kerensky as a pilot)
3040 start - Clan Trials (Earn place for invasion)
3050 start - IS Invasion
3066 start - WOB Campaign (Clan)
3088 start - Dark Age (Clan)
 
The Clan Invasion, when and if its done, needs to be its own separate game. An expansion is not enough to tackle that subject matter. I for one enjoy the Clan storyline, I just don't know that we need to revisit it again so quickly. Most of the PC games that have come out are always right before or after the Clan invasion, I was happy to see this game was set before that. Simple, classic Battletech. It was refreshing.

There are a ton of Inner Sphere stories to tell, no need to jump in so quickly and deal with all those balance issues.

Now imho a new sequel game down the line, that had aerospace, infantry, artillery, larger battles sizes, surprise attacks etc. needs to be in place to handle that narrative. If I only have a lance of Inner Sphere mechs and no supporting cast, me taking on hordes of Clanners and winning is going to be a stretch of the imagination.
 
Based on the success of BattleTech so far, the fanbase's love for the Clans, and the potential money to be made from a Clan-themed expansion, I think this as a valid discussion to have.

Personally, I'd like to see some limitations between IS and Clan engagements. I think the Clans should mainly fight amongst themselves, along with maybe some premade scenarios for IS versus Clan battles with predetermined mechs. The reason for this is balance, and the evidence is in MWO, which granted is a different game, but exemplifies the struggle with balancing IS and Clan in the same sandbox.

As far as a campaign might go for a Clan expansion, I think it would be amazing to be mostly Clan-on-Clan action, with maybe a sprinkle of the initial IS invasion, maybe like an 85%/15% split.

Lastly, I would really like to see some sort of bidding system within any potential Clan campaign. Bidding for the right to do battle is such a huge part of Clan culture, and some clever design could turn it into a very interesting strategic component of a campaign. You would earn more honor by lowballing a bid and pulling off a win in a tough fight, but having to withdraw, eject, or losing mechs or mechwarriors would have negative effects on your honor to varying degrees. Honor could be used as currency to unlock different mechs or omni variants, to attempt Trials of Position for promotions, to recruit warriors to your Star/Binary/Trinary, and, eventually, to fight for the honor of a Bloodname.

So how would you like to see the Clans added to BattleTech? Share your thoughts!


The clans are pretty far in the future compared to where the game takes place so it's still a little too early to tell. Personally I say leave the Nazi bastards out of the game as long as possible their introduction more then anything else destroyed the tabletop balance and the quality of the novels went right off a cliff.
 
To me, this is a no-brainer:

Clan expansion should put the player in control of a deep striking Clan expeditionary force. Assuming the game engine allows for it, I should command a Clan Star. I hope this is not terribly controversial, given that IS players already got their game & it will be expanded on / fleshed-out over the next few months. Seems fair that the Clan expansion would cater to us filthy Clanners.

'But it would be a stomp!'

Nope; I think a lot of players mis-interpret the lore here. The overall picture of the invasions of a few systems was a stomp - but that doesn't mean every single individual battle was a stomp. The Clans need a bidding system, and IMHO you could plug it right into the existing Salvage / C-Bills / Rep slider. You bid for tonnage and/or combat experience against simulated competing stars, and if you do not match their bids you take a significant hit to your slider maximums. If you never bid competitively then you'll just go broke and/or might have to deal with bad random events like MechWarrior desertion - at the same time, the system should also expect you to wiggle around the system here or there when you feel like you really need the firepower.

Morale should be replaced with something else. I don't know what, but I don't think it makes sense for Clanners to have a momentum bar that fills-up as they perform well in combat. If anything, they should probably have some sort of honor bar that slowly fills-up as combat happens and when it peaks-out it gives a large penalty to the player for a round.


HBS has a real opportunity here to finally do what no other BattleTech game has really done - implement the Clan in a way that doesn't just showcase the flashy new toys. The Clans had a complex code of conduct that was intended to be a pillar of why they were still a balanced force against an IS Lance even despite a numerical & firepower advantage, but that code of conduct has never been mechanically fleshed-out up to this point. It was always in the hands of the players at the table to respect Clan attitudes towards combat, and because most players didn't do that it just appeared that the Clan was a broken power-creepy mess.

The key is numbers. The IS fielded mechs at a 3:1 or better ratio by tonnage and that really was what ground the Clans down. They killed a LOT of IS pilots, but the Clan Trueborns took a long time and a lot of resources to produce and losing one of them really hurt. That's what eventually got them to allow Freebirths to participate in trials and it eventually became so costly that the Clans settled on the occupation zones.

Given that the developers have said that they do not intend to go beyond a Lance (a mistake in my mind, but it's their game) playing IS against the Clans is going to be tough. You would either need 1 - 2 AI Lances in support to tackle a Star, or end up fighting a couple of Points max with your Lance. The other way around is more doable, taking a Star of Clan Mechs against a Company of IS mechs. That works better with the mechanics as they are.

The alternative to Morale for the Clan would be something like Focus, and instead of C-Bills you are accumulating Honor as part of the Bidding process of the Batchall.

It would also be very cool for an IS merc to be able to issue a Batchall to a Clan and reap solid rewards if they win it.
 
With the current mechanics, I would very much look forward to playing my current mercenary company having limited engagements against the Clans. At the start of a campaign we would definitely struggle but slowly getting Clan salvage, of course with horrendous losses on my part. With the new salvage and increased fighting ability, my company's engagement with the Clans would increase and so does the salvage I get.

Roleplaying my IS centric company grow into something able to challenge the Clans would be very fun.


YES!!! This is what I want as well, my company might get beat up, but I can grind it through to a win.


As an aside, with the fact that the current setup has us all as blind men, then Clan's range advantage goes away to a massive extent.
 
View attachment 367135

It's described as "Like a mobile space station, in a sense." Here's the rest of what Dr. Murad had to say, emphasis on the last line of the first paragraph, if you'd simply exhaust or pay attention to her dialogue... And I'll just repost those Sarna links too...
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Argo_(Individual_Argo-class_DropShip)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Argo_(DropShip_class) (look specifically where it says when the game is released it will more than likely be declared canon, and even then since we're only talking about it in a one off sense, we only have the game's description to go off of)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Behemoth_(DropShip_class) (and here's precedence for DropShips that can't land on planets)

I never said they "lacked knowledge." I said they lacked the industrial base. Even if the Aurigan Coalition had facilities to build 'Mechs, they are in the possession of the Espinosa Directorate at the start of the campaign, as, again, the Arano Restoration only has three backwater planets under their control at the time when they sell the Griffins to the Mercs. Go play HOIV as someone like one of the Chinese puppets of Japan and try to build a military infrastructure. Even if you could supply a basic army, it would be impossible to build up an army of tanks able to take on China, Japan, or the USSR because:
A) You would need someone to sell you the license
B) You need to sacrifice your other military infrastructure to build a paltry amount of tanks
C) No one will just *give* you tanks because you are not at war, they have no desire for some upstart nation to possess a large or semi-modern military arsenal, or they simply prop up the regime because it is supposed to be a distraction for a hostile regime, not a legitimate government.

It's ludicrous to to think a third- or fourth- rate regional power would be able to devote massive amounts to creating a modern army, moreso when that power has had almost all of its industry occupied. Look at Sweden, your example, at WWII. All of its armor designs are licensed models of old and outdated foreign tanks, and they only produced a paltry amount, 106, of the most modern Czech designs at the time. Today, if the Swedish army came into possession of tons of American or Russian tanks, they wouldn't have the personnel or the means to maintain and crew them, even if they had their own designs.

Look at another nation, the Netherlands, regarded as one of the richer countries in Europe today and at the time, had absolutely no industry, or inclination, to spare for the construction of tanks.
Then we have Poland, a true regional power with a large arms industry rivalling that of the Czechs. Even they only produced outdated tankettes no match for actual tanks, instead producing more useful rifles or anti-tank guns or aircraft etc (funny thing the Czechs, they also had a large arms industry but then suddenly couldnt produce anymore when their entire country was occupied).

And finally we have the Soviets, one of the two preeminent powers at the end of the war. They were entirely able to produce their own tanks and their own designs, and they captured swaths of German tanks. They made no effort to maintain these tanks though, because they considered them to be too expensive for their benefits, mechanically unreliable, and incompatible in general with the Soviet doctrine. They would use them, if they worked, but only until they broke, whereupon they were abandoned or used for target practice (we use UrbanMechs as target practice in the campaign, what a coincidence). They definitely had the *means* to maintain the captured tanks (something the Arano Restoration does not since its only three backwaters at the start of a campaign), it was simply more trouble than it was worth and the resources put to better use maintaining their own designs or building more.

The Directorate is stated as being able to produce its own 'Mechs, but it is also stated they field more than their industrial base could support, this is due to them recieving arms shipments from other IS members (huh how or why would IS states support a backwater with 'Mechs if they're desperate for 'Mechs themselves?). This leads one to believe they retooled their industry to maintain what they recieve rather than try to create their own, since they have a generous benefactor they do not need native industry. This mirrors post-war countries in Europe, recieving arms from either the Soviets or the Americans.

First off, sweden during world war two, produced the famous bofors anti air gun, it produced their own fighter planes, it even produced its own light and medium tanks, not many, but for a small country like sweden, if you actually bothered to look up facts, you would see that, we had a fair share of military development despite staying out of the conflict... not to mention cracking the german codes, alot of the secret "accidently" ended up in allied or russian hands (cool dude called Arne Beurling)... you might want to look up Bofors, Landsverk, Saab among some of the army and airforce related companies to name a few

But back to the battle tech universe, in 3025 by your own sarna files, in the Canopian Magestry they produced a whopping 60 Mechs a YEAR... Its not about that there isnt planets with inner sphere tech, its the fact that the industry at this time is lacking, it barely exists... Mechs is a very highly priced battle machine, even alot of decomished Griffins, would be used IF they could, simply couse Mechs is barely produced at 3025, wich you stated the industry had recovered, it havent... its also directly stated in the game, they cant repair those Griffins, not even one of the major houses, and this disproves what you been saying... The argo can thanks to its los tech, its a flying space station...

And finally about the Argo... im going to state to you word by word was is said Dr. Farah Murad states...

-"Although shes far to large to land on a planet, her docking collar system allows for smaller Dropships like the Leopard to come along for the ride. The Argo is a mobile space station, in a sense, providing supply and temporary habitation for teams on dangerous missions in unsettled space"

To end this, the ARGO is far to large to land on a planet, she isnt a drop ship, the Argo is a flying space station !

PS if you going to quate something, quate the entire thing, "in a sense" dosent end that sentance, it refers to whats stated later, what it as space station is ment to do...
 
Last edited:
First off, sweden during world war two, produced the famous bofors anti air gun, it produced their own fighter planes, it even produced its own light and medium tanks, not many, but for a small country like sweden, if you actually bothered to look up facts, you would see that, we had a fair share of military development despite staying out of the conflict... not to mention cracking the german codes, alot of the secret "accidently" ended up in allied or russian hands... you might want to look up Bofors, Landsverk, Saab among some of the army and airforce related companies to name a few

But back to the battle tech universe, in 3025 by your own sarna files, in the Canopian Magestry they produced a whopping 60 Mechs a YEAR... Its not about that there isnt planets with inner sphere tech, its the fact that the industry at this time is lacking, it barely exists... Mechs is a very highly priced battle machine, even alot of decomished Griffins, would be used IF they could, simply couse Mechs is barely produced at 3025, wich you stated the industry had recovered, it havent... its also directly stated in the game, they cant repair those Griffins, not even one of the major houses, and this disproves what you been saying... The argo can thanks to its los tech, its a flying space station...

And finally about the Argo... im going to state to you word by word was is said Dr. Farah Murad states...

-"Although shes far to large to land on a planet, her docking collar system allows for smaller Dropships like the Leopard to come along for the ride. The Argo is a mobile space station, in a sense, providing supply and temporary habitation for teams on dangerous missions in unsettled space"

To end this, the ARGO is far to large to land on a planet, she isnt a drop ship, the Argo is a flying space station !

PS if you going to quate something, quate the entire thing, "in a sense" dosent end that sentance, it refers to whats stated later, what it as space station is ment to do...
PPS, she says the "space station, in a sense" before stating its a DropShip. "In a sense" means "its easier to think of it this way but it actually isn't this way." Maybe look up what a DropShip is in BT before saying nonsense. Saying a smaller DropShip can dock with it doesn't mean it itself is not a DropShip. I never said it could land on a planet. Did you bother to even look at the picture? There is no way to get it more direct from source than that. To get to that dialogue you are literally *required* to hear her equate it to a space station.

Bofors, an AA gun. The same line of AA guns from WWI. Which happens to not be a tank, so maybe that proves my point about producing certain things that they are able to produce rather than some experimental or resource intensive thing they cannot support or have no desire for. Didn't see Tiger tanks or IS-2s or Shermans or some Swedish equivalent pouring out of Saab factories. Poland cracked Nazi codes too, so did Bletchley Park, so did the NKVD (all of whom actually particpated in the war) so no idea why you bring that up (tohugh its interesting to note Sweden exported raw materials, namely steel, to fuel the German war machine). Nice sidestepping every other point made with the WWII comparison as well.

The Canopian Magistracy is a Periphery Power. With a single manufacturer of military hardware. 60 'Mechs a year is still a large number of 5 story death machines. Before the Succession Wars started they produced none.
Compare them to the powerhouse of the Federated Suns who have no fewer than 14 military hardware manufacturers, the largest of which can produce 140 high end 'Mechs a year on their own. One of which, Corean, managed to develop automated factories and created the first of a new wave of four-legged 'Mechs in 3040, right as a 5th Succession War was brewing (but never came because of the Clans).
Then we have House Liao, developing and deploying the Raven, a fully new and ingenuitive design, around the Third Succession War but with production only being fully retooled to produce it en masse around 3048.

The Arano Restoration has zero industrial base at the time they sell the Griffins. They have three backwater planets, one of which was a penal colony. It's doubtful any of those planets hold the facilities to repair and equip dozens of 'Mechs, much less ones that have been mothballed for years. I do not know why it is hard to grasp the Arano Restoration starts in a weak position and only gets the capabilities to field or maintain 'Mechs as the campaign progresses. They do have a standing army off-screen that needs to be maintained, and so they cannot dedicate whatever limited facilities they have to the old Griffins.

It's not like the Magistracy is fully supporting them either, they are not allied. They would simply prefer the Restoration win and are funnelling funding. I doubt they are sending any 'Mechs, and if they are, certainly not massive numbers the Restoration couldn't maintain anyways.
 
Greetings Mechwarriors,

Please post topically towards discussion and not personally AT others.

Thank you.
 
They should probably do it by keeping the story/game in the Arugula Confederacy and all your company-mates keep telling you about news vids they're seeing about a bunch of super-powerful unknowns invading 800 light-years away and saying "man, I'm sure glad we're not involved in that mess"