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EU4 - Development Diary - 28th of February 2017

Good day everyone, Tuesday spells for us a new EU4 Development Diary and while certain members are away enjoying the high life at GDC, it falls to me to bring you today's juicy serving of new mechanics.

As teased last week, we shall look closer at the Empire of China, a new concept in the upcoming expansion. In 1444, Ming is busy being the top dog in Asia and indeed the world, but they were not the first to claim Mandate over China and certainly not the last. We are not even one hundred years from the total collapse of the Yuan domination of china and only two hundred years shy of the successor nation Qing.

An important goal for us is to bring new play experiences across the world. Previously as a nation in East Asia, one would generally wait for Ming to crumble to rebellions, usually from loss of the Mandate of Heaven modifier (or a lot of horses and a good shock phase), and then pick up the pieces from this "Mingsplosion" or playing as Ming, simply do everything in your power to avoid falling into aforementioned deadly Spiral. This isn't quite how we would like East Asia to play out. We wish to bring the whole experience to life In the upcoming expansion, as the Empire of China is now a title that is fought for!

eu4_123.png


Where to begin? Our glorious Ming Starts in 1444 with the Celestial throne with a moderate Mandate value. Mandate will grow over time supposing stability is high, States are prosperous and you have an extensive collection of Tributaries. Protect it well, since it will have a large effect on how well your nation will function: Provincial devastation and bordering nations who are not your Tributary or otherwise bending their knee to you will cause Mandate to suffer. At Maximum mandate, The emperor of China will enjoy unrest reduction and cheaper stability cost. Conversely, as Mandate goes down below 50, you will find your troops performing worse and your provinces producing fewer goods, as the people you supposedly rule over with Divine grace back you less and less.

Mandate can be used to pass Celestial Reforms. Not unlike the Holy roman Empire, The Emperor of China must foster the growth of their mandate and spend it to gain some fantastic bonuses. Each Reform can be taken at 80+ Mandate, each will reduce Mandate by 50 and Stability by 1.
  • Introduce Gaituguiliu
    • +0.5 Meritocracy
  • Reform Seaban
    • +1 Diplomats
    • +5% trade Efficiency
  • Delegate Zongdu
    • -0.05 Monthly autonomy
  • Establish Lifan Yuan
    • -10% Core creation Cost
  • Reshape Beurocratic Ranks
    • +1 Monarch Admin Power
Additionally, hawk-eyed readers will have spotted a new Hat in the top bar. Celestial Emperors do not use the Legitimacy values since they are all obviously legit. The Emperor instead has unique access to Meritocracy. This will naturally degrade every year but increases by having skilled advisors in your court. It is then spent on the 6 Decrees, also uniquely available to the Emperor of China.

  • Expand Palace Bureaucracy
    • -10% Development cost
    • -10% core Creation Cost
  • Conduct Population Census
    • +25% National Tax
  • Promote Naval Officers
    • +20% ship durability
  • Increase Tariff Control
    • +25% Provincial trade Power
  • Improve Defense Effort
    • +25% Fort Defense
  • Boost the Officer Corps
    • +10% Infantry Combat Ability
Each Decree lasts for 10 years, costs 20 Meritocracy and, of course, all values are subject to balance up until release, but that's par for the course.

So life is good for the Ming the Celestial Emperor. China is theirs, their tribute flows in regularly and they pass reforms and decrees as they see fit. Well, no single Empire lasts forever.

eu4_126.png


The Celestial throne is there for any Pagan or Eastern Religion nation to secure for themselves. In practice, The Northern Hordes, the Japanese, the Koreans and the Buddhists are all in with a fair shot at securing the title for themselves and have access to a new Casus Belli: Take Mandate of Heaven. Land is cheaper to take in this war. Far cheaper, and it will allow the attacker to secure the Throne for themselves. When this happens, all previous reforms are wiped and the new ruler will start with moderate Mandate themselves. After all, there is only one China and all history from before did not exist. The new Emperor of China will have to quickly establish themselves with their own tributaries and bring Prosperity to the people of China to avoid the fate of their disposed Predecessor. The failed old Emperor of China shall be subjected to the Lost Mandate of Heaven modifier in addition to losing their Empire of China modifiers. Better take care of them, before they collect themselves and put their mind to reclaiming their old throne.

The successful claimant will also enjoy permanent claim on all of China to help consolidate their new power, as our Dai Viet player @Ihki was putting to great effect.

eu4_124.png


Best of luck with your fight to secure the Mandate for yourself. We'll be back next week to talk about another new feature which has our team lamenting any moment that they have to play without it. See you then!
 
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Oh hey look, Asia getting lots of love in this expansion...

Now what will people find to complain about next?
Don't worry we'll find something, if noithing else there are always the classics... "Kids these days, am I right?"

I swear to God the native mechanics suck and Brazil/La Plata need more tribes.
Sounds good to me, provided that the europeans will ever start going after tribes.

You mean something like what these guys are wearing?
Officials.jpeg
910006.jpg

This is legend feature.
I hope we can see some sort of caliphate like this in the future.
Well the Caliphate was pretty much dead when the game begins wasn't it? Heck it's pretty dead halfway though CK2. Even the early start dates should have multiple caliphs (Cordoba and Baghdad).

Now this just makes me want there to be a China tag in the game, with final reform transforming the reformer into 'China.'
Maybee that turns you into china but not that integrates your tributaries like the HRE does, if you look at China at the begining of Vic2 it still has tributaries. That said there could be a mechanic that if you control the china subcontinent completely and have passed all reforms you can become china and thus get rid of the risk of losing the mandate or something. Something akin to reforming the roman empire rather than akin to centralizing the HRE.

Trust me, the EU4 sub has no idea how good they have it in terms of the devs listening to their ideas. They're definitely much better at it than the CK2 team. At least the last suggestion in the EU4 suggestions sub with a dev response is on the 1st page instead of the 7th.
The Ck2 devs listen to us too, it can be seen from what they add to their DLCs, they just don't respond much. Sometimes they listen to keenly as when they add a feature only to nerf basically out if existance it because people complained.

Celestial governments get maintain dynasty too now but they don't get the Ottoman system of heirs as those events are built very specifically around the Ottoman harem politics :)
I noticed I was going to change it into turkish government but there were plenty of references to the ottomans in the events anyway. How about the uses_harem thing for government does that link to the very same events or could to be used to give others such as the turkish minors and ethiopia (who all should be dynasty locked) similar mechanics.

If Japan claims the empire of China who becomes the new emperor, the Japanese emperor or the shogun? Logic dictates that it would be the first one while practicality says that it would be the second one.
My guess is the Shogun become Emperor in game the emperor becomes emperor in spirit. Just like how when you unite japan seems to become emperor for some reason. Or did they change that?

I only just noticed that you've changed the number of toes on the dragon. Thanks for listening to the community!
... What was the argument there?
 
... What was the argument there?
The claws of the dragon signify your rank. Only the Chinese emperor could/should use the dragon with 5 claws. Under the Ming for example, the emperor wore 5-clawed dragon motifs, while high ranking officials etc. used 4-clawed dragons. The general public could use 3-clawed dragons.
 
My guess is the Shogun become Emperor in game the emperor becomes emperor in spirit. Just like how when you unite japan seems to become emperor for some reason. Or did they change that?

They did, nowadays the leader of japan, even if it is unified, will still be called the shogun.
 
Will there be any estates for the Celestial Empire now that the factions are being removed?
 
Good day everyone, Tuesday spells for us a new EU4 Development Diary and while certain members are away enjoying the high life at GDC, it falls to me to bring you today's juicy serving of new mechanics.

As teased last week, we shall look closer at the Empire of China, a new concept in the upcoming expansion. In 1444, Ming is busy being the top dog in Asia and indeed the world, but they were not the first to claim Mandate over China and certainly not the last. We are not even one hundred years from the total collapse of the Yuan domination of china and only two hundred years shy of the successor nation Qing.

An important goal for us is to bring new play experiences across the world. Previously as a nation in East Asia, one would generally wait for Ming to crumble to rebellions, usually from loss of the Mandate of Heaven modifier (or a lot of horses and a good shock phase), and then pick up the pieces from this "Mingsplosion" or playing as Ming, simply do everything in your power to avoid falling into aforementioned deadly Spiral. This isn't quite how we would like East Asia to play out. We wish to bring the whole experience to life In the upcoming expansion, as the Empire of China is now a title that is fought for!

View attachment 243712

Where to begin? Our glorious Ming Starts in 1444 with the Celestial throne with a moderate Mandate value. Mandate will grow over time supposing stability is high, States are prosperous and you have an extensive collection of Tributaries. Protect it well, since it will have a large effect on how well your nation will function: Provincial devastation and bordering nations who are not your Tributary or otherwise bending their knee to you will cause Mandate to suffer. At Maximum mandate, The emperor of China will enjoy unrest reduction and cheaper stability cost. Conversely, as Mandate goes down below 50, you will find your troops performing worse and your provinces producing fewer goods, as the people you supposedly rule over with Divine grace back you less and less.

Mandate can be used to pass Celestial Reforms. Not unlike the Holy roman Empire, The Emperor of China must foster the growth of their mandate and spend it to gain some fantastic bonuses. Each Reform can be taken at 80+ Mandate, each will reduce Mandate by 50 and Stability by 1.
  • Introduce Gaituguiliu
    • +0.5 Meritocracy
  • Reform Seaban
    • +1 Diplomats
    • +5% trade Efficiency
  • Delegate Zongdu
    • -0.05 Monthly autonomy
  • Establish Lifan Yuan
    • -10% Core creation Cost
  • Reshape Beurocratic Ranks
    • +1 Monarch Admin Power
Additionally, hawk-eyed readers will have spotted a new Hat in the top bar. Celestial Emperors do not use the Legitimacy values since they are all obviously legit. The Emperor instead has unique access to Meritocracy. This will naturally degrade every year but increases by having skilled advisors in your court. It is then spent on the 6 Decrees, also uniquely available to the Emperor of China.

  • Expand Palace Bureaucracy
    • -10% Development cost
    • -10% core Creation Cost
  • Conduct Population Census
    • +25% National Tax
  • Promote Naval Officers
    • +20% ship durability
  • Increase Tariff Control
    • +25% Provincial trade Power
  • Improve Defense Effort
    • +25% Fort Defense
  • Boost the Officer Corps
    • +10% Infantry Combat Ability
Each Decree lasts for 10 years, costs 20 Meritocracy and, of course, all values are subject to balance up until release, but that's par for the course.

So life is good for the Ming the Celestial Emperor. China is theirs, their tribute flows in regularly and they pass reforms and decrees as they see fit. Well, no single Empire lasts forever.

View attachment 243719

The Celestial throne is there for any Pagan or Eastern Religion nation to secure for themselves. In practice, The Northern Hordes, the Japanese, the Koreans and the Buddhists are all in with a fair shot at securing the title for themselves and have access to a new Casus Belli: Take Mandate of Heaven. Land is cheaper to take in this war. Far cheaper, and it will allow the attacker to secure the Throne for themselves. When this happens, all previous reforms are wiped and the new ruler will start with moderate Mandate themselves. After all, there is only one China and all history from before did not exist. The new Emperor of China will have to quickly establish themselves with their own tributaries and bring Prosperity to the people of China to avoid the fate of their disposed Predecessor. The failed old Emperor of China shall be subjected to the Lost Mandate of Heaven modifier in addition to losing their Empire of China modifiers. Better take care of them, before they collect themselves and put their mind to reclaiming their old throne.

The successful claimant will also enjoy permanent claim on all of China to help consolidate their new power, as our Dai Viet player @Ihki was putting to great effect.

View attachment 243720

Best of luck with your fight to secure the Mandate for yourself. We'll be back next week to talk about another new feature which has our team lamenting any moment that they have to play without it. See you then!

Finally China and East Asia is getting the shine it truly needs. The improvements to the Celestial Empire is great however is it possible for the Celestial Empire government have the same aspects as the Ottoman government. The Chinese Dynasties never had a shortage of heirs as they had a plethora of concubines and of course the main Empress. Also the Mandate Dragon icon has only "4 claws." I know they seems like a minor issue but 4 claws only signifies the nobles and princes, whereas "5 claws" was reserved for only the emperor.
The meritocracy icon hat for Ming should not be the "Qing Guanmao" or Manchu headwear but a "Wu Sha Mao" Han Chinese official hat.

Are the Ming, Qing/Manchu sprites, Korea and other East Asian (unit models) gonna get an upgrade? And when will you reveal the other East Asian ship models as we did get a sneak peek of them last year for the Chinese.
 
On the topic of Japan, if the nation is united is it possible for the Yamato to become the ruling dynasty (Meiji reformation style or maybe something of the sort)? Because it'd be really cool for the Japanese Emperor to become the Emperor of China as well, particularly if it's as the oldest dynasty in history (Yamato). @DDRJake
 
Will there be new Asia-related achievements? Would be interesting to see what you can come up with ^^

Chris and I spoiled a few achievements on stream today. Rest assured that there will be more coming, with plenty East-focused

Silly question, can I be the emperor of both HRE and China at the same time?

It's not impossible.

So all pagan religions huh? As in Fetishists and the converted CK2 ones? Nice goal for megacampaingers.

If Fetishists can crush their way into China then absolutely. The main intention for allowing Pagans is for unreformed Hordes and Ryukyu to have a shot at it.

On the topic of Japan, if the nation is united is it possible for the Yamato to become the ruling dynasty (Meiji reformation style or maybe something of the sort)? Because it'd be really cool for the Japanese Emperor to become the Emperor of China as well, particularly if it's as the oldest dynasty in history (Yamato). @DDRJake

It is well within the realm of possibility for Japan to trade their Shogun position for the Celestial Throne.
 
Will there be any estates for the Celestial Empire now that the factions are being removed?
The factions are not removed. They have new names though which is somewhat more factual and true compared to the old one. The Temple faction is now "Commanderies of the Five Armies," The Eunuch faction is now "Offices of Maritime Trade," and the Bureaucrat faction is now "Grand Secretariat."
 
Just a few questions about the mechanic:

1) Is the Emperorship of China restricted to an Asian capital?

2) What happens if the emperor falls out of eligibility for the mandate CB (by converting religion, for example)

@DDRJake @Trin Tragula
 
Jake, this isn't really related to China, but do you guys look at the suggestions page? Cause it often seems like you don't.

I read it every day. It also gets a -huge- number of threads, so forgive me if it seems like we don't.

Just a few questions about the mechanic:

1) Is the Emperorship of China restricted to an Asian capital?

2) What happens if the emperor falls out of eligibility for the mandate CB (by converting religion, for example)

@DDRJake @trin_trangula

1. No, however lack of presence in China proper can lead to a Mandate-consuming disaster.

2. They will remain the existing Emperor. Only annexation or having the position taken from you will boot you off your throne.
 
Fun fact! The DLC is called "Europa Universalis IV: Cats in Hats Edition" on Steam database, and there is a Content Pack associated to it.

Here's a picture of a cat in a hat to help you guys wait:
17631372cbee449a6786111cdfa0de36.jpg
 
Though, I remembered that the book burning was focused on the philosophies and documents of the conquered states? The Qin left their version of history rather than completely denied the past, if I remember correctly. :D

It's almost as if Scandinavia And The World isn't an authoritative source on history/sociology/politics, but just some random Danish girl's personal national stereotypes dressed up in pseudo-anime form.
 
Am I reading correctly that claiming the Mandate of Heaven doesn't actually require you to become China (either ming or a successor)? You can rule as the Emperor from Seoul or Tokyo, as a victorious Korea or Japan?

I should clarify that I ask largely because Ming's colour is ugly and a soothing blue coloured asia is clearly much better.