EU4 - Development Diary - 31st January 2017

[Hessian Mercenary]

This sounds good, only thing that makes me a bit sad is that it's a paid feature. Being in the base game could give this so much potential. Highlanders for Great Britain were already mentioned, Guard units for Europeans, Janissaries, etc. Just like Condottieri had the potential to replace those mercs who seem to grow on trees or have a cloning machine or something

 

[Memoryofthelost]

No..

but modders can do it in their mods if they want to.

My "-10% discilpline to swedish culture" proposal was turned down by the team

I saw a problem with your proposal, fixed it for you.

 

[Republic of Mercury]

Hoping to see more effects from culture in the future, it seems like there'd would be a lot of possibilities there

(hint hint tie increased coring cost to culture and give Brittany/Bohemia/the Berbers an actual bonus to replace it)

 

[TenshiN]

So.... Do the Banners count towards your forcelimit? If they do, you only get a fancy new stack with a discipline advantage. Also, is it affected by further +discipline bonuses from ideas?

 

[rho]

Does this -- or any other stuff that you're adding -- make Qing form more frequently? Because otherwise, this is going to be largely irrelevant in most games.

 

[DerMaulwurf]

Banners are raised so that you get enough cavalry for your cavalry to infantry ratio, and the rest is raised as infantry.

This is a strange way of phrasing things. As of now you'll rarely have too few cavalry (only really needed for flanking and hordes), while having too much cavalry gives you a penalty. Especially since fielding cavalry near the maximum ratio is quite dangerous if your infantry is taking more losses.

And later in the time line, you'll want infantry anyway, so the cavalry banners are essentially a tax. I hope there are changes to the combat mechanics coming.

 

[riadach]

Too bad the Manchurian tribes can't maintain the banners (if Ming does not implode), because their provinces are so poor. /scnr

According to Wiz, Ming were developing his provinces as his Manchu is a tributary. Hoist by its own petard, you could say.

 

[DàbiànLājīdàrén]

So the criteria to get military bonus in NI is 'did awersome campains in history'? Okay. What Austria, France, Castile did to get their discipline and land morale bonuses?

Woah! I didn't realize having awersome campains in history against technologically more advanced civilizations with more people than you makes a big difference in determining their NIs. Totally doesn't matter man. Maybe Manchus should get free colonizers, and free tech boosts, and free manpower bonus, and free ahistorical political advantage, to show their conquest of a vast land, with almost nobody populating it, to show how great and awesome they are, and maybe they should also have +10% Discipline, because muh space marine Manchus, and also more development and provinces, cuz Manchuria was the center of the world, and most civilized totally not tributary to some nomads place. Sounds about right. I mean if you agree with that then sure, Austria, Frace, Castile, everybody should get +10% discipline land morale or whatever. Might as well give Manchus -50% ship maintenance or something, and +800% colonial range while you're at it.

 

[riadach]

Holy cow, I just realized how much potential this could have for adding new types of troops.
Imperial Armies instead of HRE forcelimit and manpower bonuses.
Armies drawn from specific cultures within your empire, like British Highlanders.
Armies drawn from nations that lack their own country, like the Polish Legions under Napoleon.

And of course:

Feudal levies for early game!

I was thinking of Gallowglasses and Redshanks for Irish campaigns.

 

[Toni Martoni]

So the criteria to get military bonus in NI is 'did awersome campains in history'? Okay. What Austria, France, Castile did to get their discipline and land morale bonuses?

ok I don't know everything about Austrian or Castilian history but France? In the EU4 timeframe, they took part in almost all big conflicts in Europe, and won a large part of them. They won the Hundred Years War (yes they failed miserably in Crecy, Poitiers or Azincourt but it was not in the time frame), they had the best army in the whole world under Louis XIV, the morale of their armies is legendary during the Revolution: they made the Austriam and prussian army run away in Valmy just by screaming "Vive la nation" and I don't even speak of Napoleon
In the EU time frame France expanded quite a lot in an area with a lot of other powers and according to a wiki, they won 132 battles in the 800 last years, losing only 43

I don't know what you need to do to have a bonus if this is not enough

 

[cools0812]

Can we say that the Manchus conquered China? They intervened at a time when the Ming dynasty was really in big troubles and basically saved them from a peasant rebellion, and then they just became ming, using their government and their officials, with just a new emperor

You got it all wrong. Ming dynasty didnt welcome the Manchu into their government at all, as they countinued to rule the south when Manchu invaded and conquer the peasant regime of Shun in the north. Then it was Southern Ming regime that resisted the Qing occupation of China in most of the time between 1645 and 1662. A another major group of the peasant rebellion army, the Xi Army, reunited with the Southern Ming in order to stop the Manchu conquest. Eventually all efforts failed and the last regime of Ming - the Tungning regime retreated to Taiwan and continued to rule until 1683. (let's party like its 1949)

Manchu intervened in a chaotic civil war, then established their regime of china in the power vaccum of northern china using primarily Ming defectors, and then expanded their control over all china proper through war with the Ming loyalist forces in the south. I wouldnt call that " just became ming, using their government and their officials, with just a new emperor".

 

[bitmapmedivh]

Could culturally unique mechanics be disabled and enabled through the Age mechanic? For example, having the European cultures use unique Feudal levies in the Age of Discovery and having it be disabled in later Ages?

 

[Anthedon]

According to Wiz, Ming were developing his provinces as his Manchu is a tributary. Hoist by its own petard, you could say.

Ming develops tributaries? That's neat.

And I was so hoping for Byzantine retinues. At least someone needs to implement/mod the purple background for all Byzantine units.

 

[Johan]

Are these modifiers additive or multiplicative? E.g. does Steppe Horde gov't get 75% cavalry ratio, or 62.5%?

additative

 

[Johan]

Does that mean Poland lost +33% Cavalry combat ability?

no.. they get both.

cause Poland is awesome!

 

[Pyramid_Head]

Russia didn't even exist as a nation at the start of EU4 and Muscovy was essentially a Mongol tributary until 1480. So at the very start Paradox already gives soon to be Russia Muscovy an ahistorical advantage with an independent status. Napoleonic Wars didn't even happen until near the end of EU4. You mean to tell me that Muscovy and Russia should get some sort of uber discipline upgrade because of some advantage Russia supposedly had over the rest of the world in the last 10th of the game's time frame? Sounds like bullshit Russian revisionism.

I'm not even arguing that Russia wasn't formidable, but how exactly is what Russia did any more relevant or impressive than the fact that a bunch of nobody tribals at the edge of the world essentially conquered the largest and wealthiest empire state in existence at the time? Historicaly inaccurate my ass.

Nothing like the fundamentally excruciatingly lopsided victories that the Manchus took over Ming exists in Russian history. Not even the Russian victories over the Ottomans or conquest of Siberia can even be remotely compared to what happened with the Qing conquest of Ming. The subjugation of such a large amount of well established agricultural people by what were an irrelevant people at the edge of the known world without a technological advantage like Russia had over Siberian peoples and eventually the Ottomans. Maybe the German Russian war can be compared to it, but even then Russia never managed to take control over all of Germany. If the Russians had conquered all of Europe, hell just all of the middle east, then ya give my a phone call, I'll retract everything I've written and delete my account.

Someone's really butthurt about Russia it seems.

 

[JustMormegil]

ok I don't know everything about Austrian or Castilian history but France? In the EU4 timeframe, they took part in almost all big conflicts in Europe, and won a large part of them. They won the Hundred Years War (yes they failed miserably in Crecy, Poitiers or Azincourt but it was not in the time frame), they had the best army in the whole world under Louis XIV, the morale of their armies is legendary during the Revolution: they made the Austriam and prussian army run away in Valmy just by screaming "Vive la nation" and I don't even speak of Napoleon
In the EU time frame France expanded quite a lot in an area with a lot of other powers and according to a wiki, they won 132 battles in the 800 last years, losing only 43

I don't know what you need to do to have a bonus if this is not enough

Its okay. But Russia won tons of wars too, including Napoleon you mentioned I dont ask to nerf France or any other country. I ask to replace Russian quantity ideas and give some quality, which is reasonable from both historical and gameplay point of view.

Suggest to stop discussing Russia, there are lots of threads completely ignored by devs.

 

[DàbiànLājīdàrén]

Someone's really butthurt about Russia it seems.

Ya, I'm the one that's butthurt, not the guy who turned a thread about mechanics for Manchus into his need for Russia to have space marines. LOL

 

[bitmapmedivh]

And the estates especially. No mechanic in the game has so much potential for interesting stuff like the estates, sad they are still unchanged.

(E.g. Trade companies are begging to become and estate.)

Putting Estates behind the Cossacks paywall is one of the worst decisions PDS made for this game.

 

[cools0812]

From the pure historical accuracy point of view I think tying the limit of banners to primary cultural developments is kind of weird idea.
In order to expand the banner army players will be encouraged to convert more lands into manchu, which was the exact opposite of historical trends. And I thought the goal of buffing Manchu was to make the east asia games more history-friendly?
The manchu culure itself was in steady decline throughout Qing period. Manchu banners settled down as small colonies in all major Han chinese cities, and then became more and more similar to Han in term of culture. Emperor Qianlong (1711-1799) was quite furious when he found out that many manchus in the south had already forgot how to write Manchu characters. I wouldn't be surprised to see a huge Manchu cultural blob in China in 1821 with this mechanic implemented, which would be most hilarious because it is the time period when Manchu guadually ceased to be a cultural identity but only a political caste.

 

[Searry]

From the pure historical accuracy point of view I think tying the limit of banners to primary cultural developments is kind of weird idea.
In order to expand the banner army players will be encouraged to convert more lands into manchu, which was the exact opposite of historical trends. And I thought the goal of buffing Manchu was to make the east asia games more historical-friendly?
The manchu culure it self was in steady decline throughout Qing period. Manchu banners settled down as small colonies in all major Han chinese cities, and then became more and more similar to Han in term of culture. Emperor Qianlong (1711-1799) was quite furious when he found out that many manchus in the south had already forgot how to write Manchu characters. I wouldn't be surprised to saw a huge Manchu cultural blob in China in 1821 with this mechanics implemented, which iwould mostly hilarious because it is the time period when Manchu guadually ceased to be a cultural identity but only a political caste.

I had these same thoughts myself. As with most military castes, once power is gained, they turn into the political one.