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CK2 Dev Diary #33: Let's Talk About Sects

Hi everyone!

It’s time to spill the beans on some actual content in the upcoming expansion Monks and Mystics, which we announced last Friday at our Fan Gathering (I hope all the good folks who showed up had a fun time - I sure did!)

The genesis for this expansion came about a long time ago, when I started thinking about secret societies and conspiracies and wrote it down as one of several outlines for a couple of “mini-expansions”. Now, for various reasons we never went ahead with that expansion model and most of the ideas have, by now, been used in bigger expansions. However, the concept of fraternities stuck and the time is now auspicious!

The core feature of Monks and Mystics is something we simply call “Societies”. Societies are groups of like-minded characters who are working together for personal and mutual profit. Some Societies are perfectly legit (that’s the “Monks” part in Monks and Mystics); others are perhaps viewed with some suspicion (e.g. Alchemists) but are hardly criminal. Finally, there is the subversive kind, of which the Demon Worshippers are certainly the worst. (Such shadowy and outright evil cults can be actively combated through a new job that can be given to the Court Chaplain.)

The basic loop goes like this; you put out word that you’d like to join a specific Society. After a while (immediately, for open Societies), you will be approached and offered membership as a novice. At this lowest rank, you usually don’t get many new abilities (but if the Society is secret you can now at least see the leader and the other members.) Now and then, you will be given missions that will further the goals of the Society. If you complete them, it will give you more power within the Society, which should eventually allow you to “level up” in Rank. The new Rank will give you access to at least one new special ability. Using these abilities (they are basically just a special type of Decision) can also increase your power within the Society, and so it goes, all the way up to being the leader of the whole Society.

benedictine_mission.png


Of course, members of the same Society tend to like each other, and will sometimes (depending on the nature of the Society) even be obedient towards members of higher rank; or at least not hostile. This creates a whole new way of discouraging factions and pave the way for loyal vassals (or even a loyal Pope!)

That’s all for now. In a later dev diary I will go through the actual Societies and talk about their particular powers and abilities...

Be sure to check out the funny teaser trailer for Monks and Mystics, and remember the Livestreams later today, where Emil and Steven’s quest for the best German cookie continues, followed by the Norman adventures of Chris, David and yours truly!

devil_power.png
 
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Darkrenown said:
You're misunderstanding my post in several ways, please re-read the conversation.

I'm not saying they are placebos, it was me who said immortality and limb-regrowing were un-ambiguously fantasy - and immortality wasn't part of this conversation thread. I'm saying if you're ok with the possession events being seen as just crazy people I don't see why you wouldn't be ok with magic events also being crazy people. And if you don't like magic events, turn them off - it shouldn't be a problem.



When you base your argument on comparing new events to old events, actually knowing about the relevant old events is an important point. At no point have I said these are not fantasy events, so identifying them as such is not an achievement.



Right, so not "everything we've seen", which was the specific point I was countering.
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You guys are the ones who were saying for a long long time that the events weren't actually supernatural. Sure it's before you started posting (perhaps befre you even joined the team?) but still, that was the official line for like 90% of the time that ck2 has been out. Don't start being revisionistic now.

And no but the first one does not contain anything else meaningful either.
 
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One thing I'd like to see is if you are part of a sect or society then your children should maybe start not at the bottom rung. If your emperor child decided to join the section that his emperor father was the head of then I doubt the dukes and courtiers in the group would make him scrub the bed pans.

One thing I'd like to see is if your father/mother was part of a SECRET or DEMONIC society then maybe the members would contact you to reveal your parents involvement and give you the option of joining.
 
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choffman0710 said:
One thing I'd like to see is if you are part of a sect or society then your children should maybe start not at the bottom rung. If your emperor child decided to join the section that his emperor father was the head of then I doubt the dukes and courtiers in the group would make him scrub the bed pans.

One thing I'd like to see is if your father/mother was part of a SECRET or DEMONIC society then maybe the members would contact you to reveal your parents involvement and give you the option of joining.
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Surely such blatant nepotism would quickly lead to the society's downfall?
 
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Darkrenown said:
And if you don't like magic events, turn them off - it shouldn't be a problem.
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except that's the problem most people are having; the option to disable the immortality and limb regrowth stuff that they don't like also disables the madman's delusions and the superstitious misinterpretations of reality that they want.
 
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Rip Off Productions said:
except that's the problem most people are having; the option to disable the immortality and limb regrowth stuff that they don't like also disables the madman's delusions and the superstitious misinterpretations of reality that they want.
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Exactly I think that the limb regrowing should be considered a fully supernatural event, but people getting odd ideas that their ruler is the spawn of satan is not.
 
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What's the issue with supernatural events? I mean, they can be easily disabled if you dislike such content, so what's the problem?
 
TheDungen said:
Exactly I think that the limb regrowing should be considered a fully supernatural event, but people getting odd ideas that their ruler is the spawn of satan is not.
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indeed, I think we'd all love to see a middle option or two, something like; off->flavor(things like the "hell hole" or the old man who might be Odin type events where you strait up have the option to deny the supernatural-ness of the event within the event itself and the insanity/possession events)->borderline(parts of the Anti-Christ chain and similar things that give huge advantages to its recipient, more extreme insanity/possession events or rebalancing the chances of them)->Fantasy(the rest of the Anti-Christ events and the undeniable stuff like immortality and limb regrown, plus maybe some more insanity/possession stuff or rebalancing the chances again).

either way I'd assume that this DLC will interact with the Anti-Christ events significantly, either spawning a new cult or taking over an existing one seems likely for the newborn demon prince(ss)/king(queen)/duke(duchess)/count(ess) of darkness.

sreckom92 said:
What's the issue with supernatural events? I mean, they can be easily disabled if you dislike such content, so what's the problem?
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this:
Rip Off Productions said:
except that's the problem most people are having; the option to disable the immortality and limb regrowth stuff that they don't like also disables the madman's delusions and the superstitious misinterpretations of reality that they want.
Click to expand...
 
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I know I'm in the minority but this is probably the least excited I've been for a DLC since ROI. Zero interest in the subject material.

Won't be a day-one purchase for me.
 
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Can I create/join the cult of Titivillus?
With this expansion will we be able to force recruit conquered people?
Can we move to make a society dominant in a culture? So that part of the Societies ideals become part of the culture laws of the people?
Will the religious societies be able to effect the main religion?
If you get a religious leader in the society, will it recruit more people in to the society? Effectively getting the leader of your faith in will make your society allot more powerful then before.
If a Society takes power in a society, will there by anyway for smaller once to try and gather more power? If your society is large enough then the enemies of the society will be like "negative space".
With this and the Horse characters, can we make Orobas?
 
you mentioned monasteries as an example of a benign order, are there secular societies you can form as well? Ones like The Chilvalric Order of The Golden Fleece?

do societies have any sort of code or charter, code of conduct that they are expected to follow?
 
Rip Off Productions said:
this:
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Yeah, but is this really a big of a deal?
I also like certain "supernatural" events (which can be explained to an extent), and I somewhat dislike fully unrealistic ones.
For me, supernatural events are enabled, and when crazy events (which are rare) happen (like immortality), I simply stop their progress. It's not like there are tons of such event chains.
Beside immortality and demon spawn, which other events are completely unrealistic, and cannot be explained?
 
sreckom92 said:
Yeah, but is this really a big of a deal?
I also like certain "supernatural" events (which can be explained to an extent), and I somewhat dislike fully unrealistic ones.
For me, supernatural events are enabled, and when crazy events (which are rare) happen (like immortality), I simply stop their progress. It's not like there are tons of such event chains.
Beside immortality and demon spawn, which other events are completely unrealistic, and cannot be explained?
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there's events that let you regrow lost limbs, though I think it can only happen to the demon spawn/Anti-Christ character(I don't know, I've never gotten them myself).\\

and it's not like you can stop anything that happens in the Anti-Christ event chain; your kid is born, gets flagged as the spawn of [religion appropriate evil entity], and starts killing everyone between them and the throne, getting all kinds of events as they do so, with a few a bit to far fetched for some people's taste, and sense you can't assassinate your own kids anymore you're stuck with it for a good long while.
 
Rip Off Productions said:
there's events that let you regrow lost limbs, though I think it can only happen to the demon spawn/Anti-Christ character(I don't know, I've never gotten them myself).\\

and it's not like you can stop anything that happens in the Anti-Christ event chain; your kid is born, gets flagged as the spawn of [religion appropriate evil entity], and starts killing everyone between them and the throne, getting all kinds of events as they do so, with a few a bit to far fetched for some people's taste, and sense you can't assassinate your own kids anymore you're stuck with it for a good long while.
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I only got this Demon Spawn event chain once. Yeah, limb regrowing is part of this event chain.
Apart from that, most of the other things related to it are somewhat explainable.
I don't think it is really warranted to create a special exception for a rather small detail in a super-rare event.
But sure, if Paradox can find time to implement a game rule... I have no problem with it.
But I really think it's a small issue, and not worth much fuss about it.
 
sreckom92 said:
Yeah, but is this really a big of a deal?
I also like certain "supernatural" events (which can be explained to an extent), and I somewhat dislike fully unrealistic ones.
For me, supernatural events are enabled, and when crazy events (which are rare) happen (like immortality), I simply stop their progress. It's not like there are tons of such event chains.
Beside immortality and demon spawn, which other events are completely unrealistic, and cannot be explained?
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I think a few more from RIP, and then stuff like in this dev diary.

Rip Off Productions said:
there's events that let you regrow lost limbs, though I think it can only happen to the demon spawn/Anti-Christ character(I don't know, I've never gotten them myself).\\

and it's not like you can stop anything that happens in the Anti-Christ event chain; your kid is born, gets flagged as the spawn of [religion appropriate evil entity], and starts killing everyone between them and the throne, getting all kinds of events as they do so, with a few a bit to far fetched for some people's taste, and sense you can't assassinate your own kids anymore you're stuck with it for a good long while.
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Your kids start dying you mean, there is no evidence whatsoever that the "spawn of satan" has anything to do with it. The description when it happens to you it sounds a lot more like a seizure than an attack. And if that's genetic then it affecting most kids in a family is far from impossible. Why does it not affect the spawn of satan? Well because the survivor is the one who later get rumoured to be just that.
 
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TheDungen said:
You mean except that the conspiracy nuts think that the Illuminati strive for a dictatorship new world order while the real Illuminati were liberals seeking democracy?


No immortal isn't because that was added after the rule, as for satan regrowing your limbs I have never seen that event. Also Paradox are the ones who first said that the events weren't actually supernatural just interpreted as such. I like the old "supernatural" insanity events. But stuff like immortals and witchcraft not so much.
And there's a massive difference between a epileptic person being seen as possessed, and someone who actually runs around casting spells. The old events were written with the intention of being able to be read either way (why else did paradox hold that they weren't actually supernatural for so long?) while the new ones are totally up front about being intended to be read as actually being magic.


Except it shuts of them all not just the really supernatural ones.


Thus far we haven't seen anything except fantasy content.
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Dude, if you're so uptight about it, think of it this way: CK2 is set in the same universe as stellaris, and it is long established there that humans are not the first to reach the stars.
 
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This whole argument about supernatural events which are not supernatural but looks like supernatural is a bit cheesy.

Epilepsy could be seen in real life as a sign of posession. But in CK2 instead of seizures possessed could actually get military advice of Jesus with actual benefits and stuff.

I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to work like this in real life.

Yes, there is "soft" and more "heavy" fantasy content, but there is no "not-fantasy looking like fantasy" content.
 
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Undeniable fantasy:

- limb regrowth
- immortality

Wiggle room/open to interpretation/placebo/coincidence:

- everything else, including the screenshot in the OP since it can just be you waving your arms and sacrificing some random village girl and then taking credit when your rival falls ill three months down the line. It's about as likely as your epilepsy/tumor whispering to you and turning you into a military mind for the ages anyway.

Like I said I'm not opposed to an 'in-between' rule but I imagine if one is implemented there's still gonna be disagreement about what qualifies as un/deniable fantasy.
 
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RicVolvo said:
I am doing this for a reason, so that as many people as possible will see this and consider it...
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I pay attention to that subforum, so I can compile resources and suggestions for personal use, as well as checking out anything at all in regards to portraits.
 
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