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EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of June 2016

Hello and welcome to today's development diary for Europa Universalis IV. After much plotting and espionage, I have assumed direct control over these diaries, at least for the upcoming months while Johan enjoys some paternity leave.

The feeling of power this gives is immense. EU4 will allow you a similar feeling with a new feature in the upcoming expansion: Great Powers

In 1.18's accompanying expansion, which has yet to be name-dropped, we will grant the 8 most powerful countries in the world a "Great Power" status, granting them bonuses, new diplomatic options and, perhaps most importantly, a glow around your shield to show that you are the superior nation.

Before we address the shiny options and bonuses available to you, let's tackle the question of how to become a Great Power. As we had mentioned in a previous diary, the technology system is getting an overhaul and the Great Power mechanic will make use of this too. Your ranking as a Great Power depends on your Total Development plus half of your Subject Development, then divided by your tech cost. This ensures that early game, large powers such as Ming and Timurids will enjoy Great Power status but as Other powers rise and they lag behind with embracing new institutions, this status will be lost. Of course, If Ming, for example, stays united and forward thinking, they may not lose this status at all. Subject Nations cannot be Great Powers

As a great power you will enjoy a Power Projection bonus. One commonly raised issue is that if you are a huge power without equal your Power Projection is oddly low, since you cannot have any meaningful rivals. The greatest of the Great Powers will enjoy a +25 Power Projection bonus, with the other 7 gaining an increasingly smaller amount with rank 8 getting +10PP. Additionally, great powers will receive a prestige decay reduction. Other modifiers will likely be added before release as we continue to balance the system.

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Bonuses are all very well and good, but where's the fun in being great if you can't enforce your will on lesser beings? Four new diplomatic options are opened up uniquely for Great Powers:

Take on Foreign Debt – Pay off all the loans of the target independent non-GP country. Gives +10 relations bonus for every standard size loan of the target you clear, capped at +200, decaying 2/year Also grants +1 trust for every loan cleared, or +2 favours if you have The Cossacks. Requires enough money to pay off target’s loans.

Influence Nation – Pay 1 year of target income to increase relations and grant +1 monarch points in their weakest category for 10 years in a target independent non-GP nation. This raises their opinion of you by 25 for the 10 years, also gives +5 trust. Going to war with them cancels this bonus.

Intervene in War– If there is an ongoing war between great powers but an imbalance in the number of GPs involved, you can make it your business to intervene. For example, if GP Britain is singlehandedly fighting GP France and GP Spain, you as a Great Power Commonwealth can intervene on Great Britain's side to balance out the number of great powers involved.

Break Alliance – This will force a nation to break its alliance with another. They will accept if the target nation is sufficiently afraid of you and you will gain a truce with the nation you force this upon. Useful for stripping your war target of pesky roadblocks.

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Finally, you will want to hold on to your status as a great power. If you are pushed out of the top 8 nations, you will be given a 5 year grace period to regain your Great Power Score. During this time you will still have access to Great Power options but if you cannot regain your standing then you will lose them until you rise again or topple those who would claim to be greater than you.

Current 1444 Great Powers:

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As usual, the nitty-gritty numbers are very much subject to change as we refine the features.

Great Powers will be available as a paid feature in the upcoming expansion, which will be released alongside the 1.18 patch.

Next week we'll be in the presence of our King/Khan/Chief/Sultan/Emperor/Malik, so I hope you're on your best behavior.
 
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Break Alliance – This will force a nation to break its alliance with another. They will accept if the target nation is sufficiently afraid of you and you will gain a truce with the nation you force this upon. Useful for stripping your war target of pesky roadblocks.
I'm afraid that this could be gamebreaking if not implemented right. The reason these alliances would exist is because of the threat the GP poses. By being able to force alliances to be canceled, if the AI does not weigh its overall alliance strength or the fact that they may be alone against the GP if they comply, it completely negates this purpose. On top of this What consequence would there be if the nation does not comply? The only way this decision would make sense is if a free CB was given to the GP making the threat.
 
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I'm afraid that this could be gamebreaking if not implemented right. The reason these alliances would exist is because of the threat the GP poses. By being able to force alliances to be canceled, if the AI does not weigh its overall alliance strength or the fact that they may be alone against the GP if they comply, it completely negates this purpose. On top of this What consequence would there be if the nation does not comply? The only way this decision would make sense is if a free CB was given to the GP making the threat.

Perhaps the forcible break of alliance could incur the AE penalty. There is still a coalition to consider but I'm not certain if coalition is still a problem, because it almost rarely gets formed.
 
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure they have stated they will never do a converter officially ever again because it requires way too much maintenance to keep up to date. I thought I remember Groogy saying this but I can't recall where.

That converter is the reason many of us bought EUIV in the first place. The problem they had is that the games weren't designed (along the way) with the converter in mind. There needs to be a mindset change (which has started to happen with games like Stellaris showing them what they can do with the engine) where the games are developed under the assumption that the player is continuing their game from title to title. What we really want is to start a game in pre-history and work our way through the modern age and even beyond into Stellaris....
 
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Great Powers is very rich concept, but I'm worried about execution. Like France intervening in Ming business, Ming intervening in war of religion, etc.
By looks of it, GP diplomacy actions are mostly beneficial to minor powers why is that? Shouldn't there be spheres of influence, where sphered nation will provide some bonuses to "overlord" (trade power, military and fleet access without taking diplo slots maybe?). Taking over sphered vassals from other nations diplomatically? Supporting/staging a coup in sphered nations would also be nice.
And what about New World? Before Old World powers arrive and gain meaningful presence, shouldn't Inca Empire be the one even if they suck compared to the former?
There is a lot of nuances need to be worked out.

Also the very concept of Global Great Powers in kind of out of time. In Victoria timeframe GP had means to project their power globally due to ability to quickly deploy considerable force anywhere on the Globe (with railroads, steamers and rifles/machine guns). In EU4 there were no such things, horse and (later) sail was dominant. You can't do much with those on global scale. So, maybe Local Great Powers would be more correct? Like different GPs in Europe, Africa, Asia, India and Americas? List could (should) intersect of course.
As time goes by and better and better means to project power developed, spheres could be merged one by one until there is only one, Global.
I just can't see how Timmies would be of any concern for say GB at least for two centuries. And vice versa.
 
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One thing I always found lacking with Victoria was the fixed number of great powers. I would prefer great power status be conferred upon every nation whose relevant score is above a modified average. Say the average is 100 every nation above 200 is a great power.
 
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are lucky nations being removed then? especially since some of these starting greatpowers are already lucky nations.
 
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As a great power you will enjoy a Power Projection bonus. One commonly raised issue is that if you are a huge power without equal your Power Projection is oddly low, since you cannot have any meaningful rivals.
Then you should give free PP to countries which are too strong to have rivals, not to just top 8 countries which still can have rivals..
 
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Good, but I'm afraid of the "Break Alliance" option. Playing as a small nation next to a great power? Got a good alliance with 3 or 4 mid-sized neighbors? Break alliance. Break alliance. Break alliance. Now you're all alone. Isn't this game fun?

Otherwise I like the update. But that little change can make the fun go downhill quick.
 
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I'm not sure that I like GP status being based exclusively on development. Perhaps it should be modified by autonomy. Prestige could also play a role. That way you could have some tall GPs.
 
So we get a feature which was in Victoria 2 right from the start as a paid dlc?

EA would be so proud..
How is it being in V2 from start relevant to it being in a DLC for EU4?
 
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Good, but I'm afraid of the "Break Alliance" option. Playing as a small nation next to a great power? Got a good alliance with 3 or 4 mid-sized neighbors? Break alliance. Break alliance. Break alliance. Now you're all alone. Isn't this game fun?

Expect a similar limitation to what is in place for threaten war.
 
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One thing I always found lacking with Victoria was the fixed number of great powers. I would prefer great power status be conferred upon every nation whose relevant score is above a modified average. Say the average is 100 every nation above 200 is a great power.

I have similar concerns, the fixed great power numbers in vicky felt quiet clumsy. I've suggested a potential formula below however my main point is that i would prefer some sort of dynamic number of great powers.

Maybe a maximum number of great powers but to qualify you must be at least half the average great power score of the 8 highest ranked nations. so for the 1444 example, with a total of 3183 for all 8 nations, a nation must have at least 199 (3183/8/2 rounded to the nearest integer) development to qualify as a great power.

You could also have a maximum number of great powers greater than the number used to calculate the threshold for example 12. This would mean that a country like aragon in 1444 with 240 great power score (195+.5x91) would qualify as a great power.

In the late game if a handful of nations outstrip everyone else then comparatively tiny nations couldn't qualify as great powers. eg. if there were three mings at start of game this would give a total great power score of 4597 and a threshold of 287. Therefore (still using the max of 12 great powers) there would be 8 great powers with the smallest being England at 293 and the three mings sitting on top.
 
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This seems a vicky 2 revamped feature. I dont see the reason to put great powers in a game where they dont really belong (and giving bonuses to nations which already are powerful enough)
 
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Great powers in 1444? No, please. The whole concept of balance of power started more or less with the Thirty Years' War, and that's halfway through the game; the first real hints of great powers maintaining balance show up in the early 18th century. Moreover, big nations are already unrealistically rich, powerful, and stable - the states system had potential, but the numbers involved are so ridiculously huge (for quantity of states) or tiny (for their maintenance) that it might well not exist for blobs. This system makes no sense for most of the timeframe, and in particular not for the already overly-powerful EU4 blobs.
 
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I have some suggestions, that may or may not help.

GP Conquests should affect all GPs. In effect, what i'm saying is that, as great powers rise, through the conquest of other GPS, all other great powers should become wary of them and want to try to stop them because it's a direct threat to them. If the GP is simply conquering some irrelevant other country(i.e non-GP), then this penalty would not apply. This can be done by:

1) AE - As great powers conquer other great powers, they should have an increased AE on all great powers. in other words, their AE will now be (factor * (WhateverAEThey'dCurrentlyReceive + someBaseValue)). This factor would be applied based on their GP rank and their relations to the other GP. So, example, #1 will have a greater AE increase from a #5 conquest than #10 would have from it. In essence it would be a way of great powers 'clinging to power'. Due to the newer mechanic of how alliances work, lower ranked GPs should be able to have more useful alliances than the higher ones, which means #2 probably won't be able to just go attack #3 as soon as he conquers and cripple him so badly that he's now #8. Furthermore, it would mean you'd now have to pay attention to your relations with other GPs since, if you're #3, you want all the GPs around you to have a reduced AE on you, lest they attack you. So, let's say the powers are as in the above example. If otto and france are rivals and otto declares war on mamlucks, their AE with france will be increased by, say, a factor of 2 since they're at risk of being surpassed by the ottomans. But, if the otto's are allied to Spain (#8 + good relations), the factor would be, say, 0.4. There would still be an increase, due to the base increase, but it won't be as much. Ontop of that (assuming ming is aware of their presence), ming would also get a relation/AE hit from this. I'm thinking this could help slow down blobbing. France can't logically rapidly blob through england/spain, nor can otto do the same with timruids and mamluks if they're going to be at risk of a coallition war with just about every other GP out there.

2) Contain Power Casus Belli - As GPs conquer other GPs, The GPs immediately above and below them gain a 'Contain XYZ' casus belli. Example, timruids and france can now declare war on Ottos, but due to the new GP mechanic, other GPs can decide to join in on the Otto side, potentially resulting in a win for Otto resulting in ceding of cores or releasing of nations.
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New Casus bellis - 'Great War', 'Contain Power'.

Great War - One GP can declare war on any other following normal CB protocol. This CB works like the Humiliate Rival CB but with a few tweaks. Of course this 'Great war victory' end condition, or whatever it will be called, will require 100 warscore just like the humiliate rival. Both sides could use this end condition to end the war. CB gives all the bonuses of the Humilate CB to every participant of that side, each member receives a Relations boost with all other GP members of their side (maybe 100), and 5 favours with each other. Other GPs will be able to join on a side so they can 'get in on the goods' as long as the follow the 'intervene in war' restrictions. This CB gives great benefits and encourages GPs to fight each other, however, it has great risks, being you have to go off in this huge drag war which can, at some point, result in other nations attacking you.

Contain Power - Simple CB allowing to declare war on another GP. Only available once another GP has conquered land, and only end conditions are to release nations or return cores.

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intervene in war - Should have similar restrictions to call in ally. Such as can't join in after 30 months or if a side has less than 30 warscore.
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GP alliances - I've played one-ish game of victoria 2 (wasn't really my cup of tea). From what I gather, I think a GP can only ally one other GP at a time(?). Something like that should of course, apply here too. Also taking into account the new alliance mechanics.

GP relations - GPs should have relations penalties with certain others. The GP immediately above another should have a 'threat' penalty with a hit of maybe -25. This is to say that the GP below this one is a 'threat' to their power, therefore they regard them in a more negative way due to this.
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EDIT: When non-GPs attack a GP, maybe their AE with other GPs should be lowered since the train of thought could be something akin to 'well you are helping me take care of my enemy...'. The AE reduction would be dependent on relations. So if you attack france and england hates them (-200), your AE increase on england would be near negligible. However, if england loves france (+200), AE hit won't be reduced.

I'm no history buff, so i don't know how well these suggestions follow with history but they can be tweaked.
 
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Will this new intervention system affect the 30 years war? because it was historically more of a conglomerate of interventions of the great powers of the time on the war between the german leagues.
 
I think you need to rethink HRE and Great Powers. HRE members should be able to be GPs. If the Emperor is a GP he could get a small bonus to IA provided there are no other GPs in the HRE. if there are, then the emperor's power base is not secure and he doesn't get the bonus IA.
 
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