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Stellaris Dev Diary #18 - Fleet Combat

Good news everyone!

Today’s Dev Diary will be about Fleet Combat and the different things affecting it. Like always it is important for you to remember that things are subject to change.

In Stellaris we have a number of different types of weapons that the player may choose to equip his/her ships with. All weapons can be grouped into either energy, projectiles (kinetic), missiles, point-defenses and strike craft. Their individual effects and stats vary somewhat, so let’s bring up a few examples. One type of energy-weapon is the laser, using focused beams to penetrate the armor of a target dealing a medium amount of damage. Mass Drivers and Autocannons are both projectile-weapons with high damage output and fast attack-speed, but quite low armor-penetration. This makes them ideal for chewing through shields and unarmored ships quickly, but are far worse against heavily armored targets. Missiles weapons are space-to-space missiles armed with nuclear warheads. Missiles have excellent range, but they are vulnerable to interception by point-defense systems. There’s of course far more weapons in the game than these mentioned, but it should give you a notion of what to expect.

Strike crafts are different from the other weapon types since they are actually smaller ships that leave their mothership. Cruisers and Battleships can in some cases have a Hangar weapon slot available, in which you may place a type of strike craft. Currently, we have two types of craft; fighters and bombers. Fighters will fire upon ships, missiles and other strike craft. Bombers however may not fire on other strike craft or missiles, but they will do more damage than fighters against capital ships. Point-defense weapons can detect incoming missiles and strike-crafts and shoot them down. These weapons may also damage hostile ships, if they are close enough, but will do significantly less damage against those.

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When it comes to defenses, you may increase the durability of your fleet in combat by placing armor and shield components in the utility slots on your ships. Armor components will reduce the incoming damage and can’t be depleted during combat. Shields work much more like an extra health bar to your ships and will be depleted if they take too much damage. Shields will automatically regenerate after combat, unless you have certain components that allow your shields to regenerate during combat. Both shields and armor can have their efficiency reduced if the enemy uses armor and/or shield penetrating weapons.

The different components you place on your ships will also affect certain other key combat values:… Hull points is a value corresponding to the “hit points” or health of your ship. Evasion affects the chance for your ship to evade a weapon firing at it. You may also affect the overall stats (values) of your fleet by assigning an Admiral to it. The stats of your fleet will both be affected by the skill and the traits of your leader. But be aware that traits will not always have a positive effect. I would recommend everyone to always have good admirals assigned to their military fleets since they can really improve your stats, like +20% fire rate and +10% evasion.

Once the combat has begun, you very few options to control what happens, much like it works in our other grand strategy games. For this reason it is really important not to engage in a battle that you are not ready for. As a fallback, it is possible to order a full retreat through the “Emergency FTL Jump” option, this will basically cause your fleet to attempt to jump to the closest system. However, during the windup for the EFTL jump your ships will not be able fire back at the hostile ships, so you put yourself in an exposed situation. Depending on what type of fleet you have, you might want them to always engage in combat or always try to avoid it; for this purpose we have different fleet stances. The evasive stance will try to avoid combat and the fleet will leave a system if a hostile arrives. Civilian fleets have this stance on per default. Aggressive stance will actively make your fleet attempt to attack any hostile that enters the same system as them. Passive stance will, like the name suggest, make your fleet only engage in combat when enemies are within weapon range.

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The combat might be off-hand, but you can still indirectly affect how each individual ship will behave. When you design your ship you may specify what combat computer to use on the ship. These computers range from making your ship super aggressive, and basically charge the enemy, or be really defensive and keep formation. At the start of the game only the default combat computer is available, but more are unlocked through normal research or reverse engineering.

It is very possible that your fleet might end up in combat with multiple fleets. This means that you can have a combat with three different empires that are all hostile to each other. To help you keep track of everything that happens we have a combat view, which will appear as soon as a combat is initiated. This view will list you (and any other friendlies or neutrals) on the left side and every hostile on the right side. The combat view is currently being reworked, so you will get to see that interface at a later date, but the idea is to provide you with crucial feedback on how effective your weapons and defenses are.

Once the battle is over, you may want to investigate any debris left from destroyed vessels. If you weren’t the one being wiped out, perhaps you can salvage something?

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Sadly, neither the “Picard Maneuver” nor the “Crazy Ivan” are currently possible in the game, but who knows what the future might hold…

Stellaris Dev Diary #19 - Diplomacy & Trade
 
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Looking good! But I do have one issue, the weapons stats all seem a bit backwards, what I can see is:
lasers Vs armour
Kinetics Vs shields

Personally, I think that (considering the pure force behind them) kinetic weapons should be devastatingly powerful against armour and hull points, but should bounce off shields with ease.
Similarly, lasers should probably be more of a AA and anti shield weapon (dependent on power)

This was my thinking. If I'm firing meteors at your ships from my space cannons, they're going to stick lovely holes/dents in your hull without something to bounce off first (like shields).
 
Seems almost identical to Galactic Civilizations III. I hope they get the balance right because in most games a certain weapon/defense combination usually ends up OP and everyone goes that route.

i do not see the link with Galciv 3. that game uses hard counters. Stellaris will have point defense against fighters and missiles (which does sound the same as Galciv3, but will most likely will not work the same as the hard counter in galciv3), armor for dmg reduction (not like galciv3) and shield as a rechargable healthbar (not like galciv3)
 
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Would one of the people saying kinetic works well against armor tell me why? im curious as to the arguement.

My personal thought regarding kinetic, laser, armor, shield was that since a kinetic projectile is mass with a given speed hence the name it will pass straight through a "shield" but a massive structure, which is what armor is will reduce speed, block or otherwise repell the mass depending on the kinetic force vs the ship structure.
While a laser would just pass through the armor after heating it up to the melting/plasma

ofcourse if theres some type of reflectors in the armor it would work against a laser and you could also imagine a shield blocking a kinetic weapon. So i basically think you could argue for either way depending on which types of shield/armor you are talking about.

Regarding missiles/strike crafts point defense weapons i imagine would be point defense lasers but it might aswell be anti missile missiles or some type of flaks.

I agree with you - armour is designed to withstand kinetic impact. Shields are usually designed to disperse energy beams. Therefore lasers cut through armour and shields are penetrated by kinetic shot. Which is the way Paradox are doing it.

(just a side note mirrors are generally useless against lasers. Any space dust, dent, divot, imperfection, etc. renders them meaningless and with the energy levels involved the mirror itself will start deforming as soon as the beam hits it. Making the mirrors used inside lasers themselves retain their properties is on the hardest parts of making lasers and the level of precise technology involved makes it nigh on impossible to attach to the outside of any craft)
 
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Seems almost identical to Galactic Civilizations III. I hope they get the balance right because in most games a certain weapon/defense combination usually ends up OP and everyone goes that route.

GC3 has an extremely simplified combat model that seriously hampers gameplay. In GC3, you basically take all of the weapons of each type on a ship and add them together in one big attack per weapon type. Different weapons of each type only differ in how much bang you can squeeze into the same space. All types of defenses work the same except they work on different attack types and is useless against the other attack types.

In Stellaris, each weapon is firing individually and different weapons in the same broad category can have different characteristics. Each type of defense works differently and works against multiple attack types. Basically the only thing they have in common is the broad categorization of weapons and defenses. Under the hood it's as different as a Ford Model T and a Tesla.
 
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This sounds eeirly similar to the combat system in Endless Space. Then again I have more faith that Paradox AI will know how to build a fleet properly, so that is not a bad thing at all :D
 
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This is very interesting, but I'm disappointed that we didn't get much hard info on the nitty-gritty of how combat is actually handled by the engine. What does a combat screen look like? Is there combat width and dice rolls? How does ship targeting work and can you see it happening transparently in the interface (unlike the absolute opacity of EU4's naval combat)? What actually happens in combat, engine-tick to engine-tick?

Hope these questions and others will be answered in a future dev diary... and that everything to do with combat will be represented explicitly in the UI, rather than requiring the player to flee to the wiki to learn how things actually work!
 
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Let's hope it won't be a godawful hard counter system and race with extremely highly advanced lasers could beat shields. Hard counters are one of the worst designs ever to see in a strategy game. It's Galactic Civilizations-level horrible.

It's more of a cost-efficiency thing. Lasers will still do decent damage against shields, but it will not be the perfect choice. If you know an enemy fleet has gone 100% missile-weapons and you can get full point-defense coverage you'll do very well (though not win unharmed).

very cool, i like the battle computer add in. this will give some standard AI for that ship to follow.

question though, how (if at all) will stellaris try to balance ship sizes in fleets to make sure that fleets dont end up as zerg corvette fleets or only massive battleships?

Efficiency-wise we'd like it to be Corvette < Destroyer < Cruiser < Battleship < Corvette. This is of course an over-simplification but that's the general idea. We do a few things to try and achieve this, such as Corvettes gaining full Evasion from all sources while Battleships only gain 25% (Destroyers and Cruisers gain 75% and 50% respectively). This in combination with the fact that the larger weapons used by Battleships have lower attack speed, higher damage per attack and somewhat lower hit-chance should make it less cost-efficient to overkill small corvettes with huge weapons (lots of missed shots, those that do hit deal far more damage than needed). Corvettes in turn will struggle with the higher armor and shields of a Destroyer etc. up the chain.

Will we be able to customise strike craft?

No, we've decided not to go in to such detail. Strike Craft come in sets of units (or Wings) that can be placed on ships with hangar-capabilities.

So every ship will have EFTL? Even if they rely on wormholes and stuff?

All fleets having some type of FTL-capability can use EFTL. Ships relying on Wormholes to travel will need a functional Wormhole Station within range. If there is no station in range, the fleet is stranded and can not EFTL (doooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!).

Does the player design strike craft or are they built using fixed rules (e.g. "fighter always use best beam weapon")? Are strike craft automatically replaced after battle, require repairs to be replaced or require new strike craft to be manufactured? Do strike craft on existing ships upgrade when new weapons are acquired?

Strike Craft use their own type of weapons and are not dependent on what type of lasers etc. you've researched. Any Strike Craft lost during a battle slowly regenerate over time automatically. They can be upgraded should a new rank of them be researched and the design of the carrier-ship updated.

How does armor damage reduction work? Is it a percentage reduction in damage or subtracting damage from each hit?

Armor subtracts a set amount of damage from each hit, up to a limit. Armor can never reduce damage taken to zero. Armor-penetration is percentage-based.

Will we be able to mod weapon stats?

Yup yup!
 
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could you use lasers or fast firing kinetic weapons to neutralise the missiles coming from a point defense system (neutralise the neutralisers)? otherwise fighters and warheads sound like they could easily become useless against ships with such defenses.


By the way:
Once the combat has begun, you very few options to control what happens
 
How will retreating work for armies that use wormholes instead of warp?
 
Efficiency-wise we'd like it to be Corvette < Destroyer < Cruiser < Battleship < Corvette. This is of course an over-simplification but that's the general idea. We do a few things to try and achieve this, such as Corvettes gaining full Evasion from all sources while Battleships only gain 25% (Destroyers and Cruisers gain 75% and 50% respectively). This in combination with the fact that the larger weapons used by Battleships have lower attack speed, higher damage per attack and somewhat lower hit-chance should make it less cost-efficient to overkill small corvettes with huge weapons (lots of missed shots, those that do hit deal far more damage than needed). Corvettes in turn will struggle with the higher armor and shields of a Destroyer etc. up the chain.

That sounds great. That's exactly the model for overall balance that I was hoping you would use. It should make for a lot of interesting decisions!
 
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Can i teleport explosives onto enemy ships?

Can i use advanced computers and transmitters to take over the enemy battle computers? or confuse their IFF systems.

Can i use my gravity wave generator to pulverise some asteroids into a massive amount of buck shot and then sling it in a giant cloud into a solar system so that eventually it will destroy everything.

Are Hull points (hit points) a basic fixed amount per ship hull type or can you do stuff to change it?

When do you want my money?

thanks
 
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I wonder if we will get a counter-counter mechanism, that if I don't have shield tech but encounter a laser-spam guy, I could run a special project and hammer some ablative armor of reflective coating onto my ships. The same for fighters and missiles, like develop some kind of anti-subsystem missile to hammer PD system first or ECM to jam the PD.

Also, someone mentioned that one can only improve his PD tech after he encountered, bought or developed missile and fighter tech, or something likely. I think it's a good idea since we have to trade, fight and expand for development, rather than camp until researched some ultra-tech.

Though fighter customization is denied, I still want more types of strike crafts, like strike bomber (fast and hit small ship hard) or heavy bomber (could tank PD fire and hammer capitol ship, suck against fighter). I prefer resupply rather than replenish mechanic for fighters, that one could force enemy carrier retreat to base and dock to resupply, rather than fall back and return.
 
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What about Boarding Actions?
What is it with sci-fi and their love for boarding action? Why would you launch dozens of shuttles at an enemy holding hundreds of space marines instead of a few missiles? The missile have a smaller size and can accelerate at much higher speeds and they don't have to slow down when approaching the target. Also, when they hit they instantly deal damage to the ship unlike boarding crews which can take minutes to subdue the enemy crew. Minutes that they can use to kill your ships.
And to what end? The boarding parties won't come as a surprise to them, so they will destroy all sensitive information beforehand and might even attempt a kamekaze strike against the enemy, because they are already lost. And the boarding crews will have little chance to stop these things, as all bulkwards will be closed due to the battle taking place and the ships will be designed with chokepoints and killzones protecting the bridge, armory and engineering decks.
And even killing the enemy crew in its entirety won't help you much, as there is such a thing as encryption, AI and self-destruction. (Sensors tell the AI that it is overrun with unregistered personnel? Ship can't reach the captain, or the bridge doors were breached? Overload the reactor.)
 
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I'm really interested to know how this will mesh with the tech system.

We know the tech system has a number of common, uncommon, rare, and very rare techs - but will there be any basic ones that we could miss and force us to change our strategy? I remember Sword of the Stars had a neat system where point defense systems were not guaranteed to be in your tech tree (and given my own rotten luck, rarely were) but if you were playing some races, i.e. Hivers, you had a natural kinetic/missile technology focus that made your ships floating arsenals of dooooom!

So devs, will we see any techs that allow for (for example) FTL jumps around the battlefield, cloaking, phase shifting to miss missiles, tractor beams? Basically really specialty techs that might pop up once in a blue moon and will make us remember our games with Race X or Y with those dreaded ships for years to come...?