-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
WOW
great update. this world gets more and more interesting. i really like how coherent the au is...poor middle east...everything is different but still everything turns out the same screw-up. yet also it is interesting to think maybe if forcing everyone into their own areas will actually help. they might resent eachother but they dont have the issues of having to live in the same territory and over time they will forget...still these imperialists are stone-cold and in this world it seems they will last well into the 20th century and beyond.
is that a photoshop or a real plane? its both cool and weird looking.
i am very interested to see what happens in the german election. could be a big turning point depending who wins.
if the Avro Aspirant had a short life due to the jet fighter coming it suggests Canada is getting them soon!
they are lucky geographically...i doubt anyone wants to go into the mountains and dig them out when you can just isolate them. will beria attack don-kuban that is a big question.
Seriously!
+1. the update was so long and good it would be easy to overlook the story part...i love seeing into the minds of people in this world and seeing they are people just like us...the pilots are still just young guys who don't want to kill eachother
great update. this world gets more and more interesting. i really like how coherent the au is...poor middle east...everything is different but still everything turns out the same screw-up. yet also it is interesting to think maybe if forcing everyone into their own areas will actually help. they might resent eachother but they dont have the issues of having to live in the same territory and over time they will forget...still these imperialists are stone-cold and in this world it seems they will last well into the 20th century and beyond.
is that a photoshop or a real plane? its both cool and weird looking.
i am very interested to see what happens in the german election. could be a big turning point depending who wins.
if the Avro Aspirant had a short life due to the jet fighter coming it suggests Canada is getting them soon!
they are lucky geographically...i doubt anyone wants to go into the mountains and dig them out when you can just isolate them. will beria attack don-kuban that is a big question.
So you have taken the cluster**** that was OTL's Partition and transplanted it to the Middle East, turned up the nastiness by a hefty dose and distributed it between six or so new states all intent on making their countries homogeneous.
And just as you think things can't get any worse, the Saudis are back. Ugh.
Seriously!
+1. the update was so long and good it would be easy to overlook the story part...i love seeing into the minds of people in this world and seeing they are people just like us...the pilots are still just young guys who don't want to kill eachother
Interesting the Ethiopia is being left neutral so as not to alter the balance somewhat. The Germans, Goering, and French will probably be trying stuff there to alter the balance. The Japanese could probably sneak through as they are not as threatening.
The Centre Party probably won't due well as they are Catholics (the Entente), the SDP may gain as they probably have disassociated themselves with Syndicalism but not enough. Maybe the statist governemnt will be challenged by the Liberals?
Given the historical examples, it really doesn't. Though this line of thinking has been used to justify it.
Given the German Constitution Hassel might be able to hold on, but it would be interesting to see him struggle with handling the popular vote. It doesn't seem to think much of it.
The Centre Party probably won't due well as they are Catholics (the Entente), the SDP may gain as they probably have disassociated themselves with Syndicalism but not enough. Maybe the statist governemnt will be challenged by the Liberals?
I have a feeling that things are coming to a head soon. The AAR's title will be coming into play soon, and France in it's entirety needs to be freed from the Hun jackboot.
- 1
That was a great (and horrifying) update. I'm sure things can only go up from here!
Hmm...
I just realized who will free the AUS from Long and his cronies deadly grip. Martin Luther King Jr. shall illuminate the American Union States. Well, once the 60's hist anyways.
I just realized who will free the AUS from Long and his cronies deadly grip. Martin Luther King Jr. shall illuminate the American Union States. Well, once the 60's hist anyways.
That's assuming he's even born and that the circumstances that allowed his message to be necessary or widespread still exist.
Last edited:
I wouldn't be so sure, Long's faction in the AUS is pro civil rights already. If we were talking Kuhn in charge then maybe, but Kuhn would just black bag him or anyone like him.
- 1
Sadly Malcom X wouldn't be a syndie since he was more an islamist than a communist in OTL and I don't think he would change that thought process.
Who knows with MLK though? Anything could happen.
Last edited:
He was born in 1929. Given that Long is allowing the segragationists free reign to Jim Crow the whole country, there is still a need.
If Malcolm X can't be a Syndie because of his religion then neither can MLK. He was a baptist minister. Maybe he would develop a Christian Socialism.
The PoD is before that. The United States was changed shortly after the PoD in KR thus giving about 10 years for people moving around due to changing jobs and live in worse conditions.
Okay, you answered necessity but do the methods and possibilities for his message to become widespread still exist?
He was introduced to the Islamic cult while in prison through letters from his siblings so I imagine it would be possible for his siblings to be introduced to Syndicalism instead and, through them, Malcolm himself. Regardless of my agreeing with you that it's possible for Malcolm to be a Syndie or Totalist, I would like to say that your train of thought is rather flawed as, for a majority of his career as a political symbol, he was an Islamic extremist until the last few months of his life, unlike MLK Jr. who was no where near as extreme in his beliefs. The point I feel that guy was trying to make was that being Islamist and Black was Malcolm's politics while MLK Jr. used his role as a minister to promote his own politics separate from his religion, not some sort of Black Christian theocracy but rather desegregation and equal rights for all.
I was responding to someone saying that Malcolm X couldn't be a Syndicalist because of his religion while then suggesting that MLK could no problem. I don't see how that train of thought is flawed just because there was a different intensity. It seemed strange to me that imply that one. I have no idea why you think I was implying that MLK wanted a Theocracy. The New Democratic Party in Canada was founded by someone like that so I don't think you would get Theocracy from Christian Socialism.
He explicitly said he saw his fight for civil rights as an extension of his ministry, so I feel reasonable to say his politics were somewhat inspiredby his religion.
I know, and I was explaining why that logic was faulty.
I was contrasting Malcolm's goals to MLK Jr.'s goals, not implying that that's what you thought.
Inspired yes, but what I'm saying is that with Malcolm, religion WAS his goal. His goal for a majority of his career up until the last few months of his life when he left that cult was to create an independent Black, Islamic country. MLK Jr.'s goals weren't for promoting Christianity but rather to promote civil rights. A promotion that, like you said, was inspired by his position as a Christian minister as he felt that god created all men equal, regardless of color. He was promoting these beliefs but not his religion, thus leaving him on a different scale than Malcolm.
Also, if we continue, I do believe we should take this to either PMs or to the KR thread/forum as we're getting a bit off-topic. I'm actually liking this debate as, for once on this forum, no one is throwing petty insults or attacks and you're also providing well-reasoned evidence to back up their side of the debate.
A fantastic update I'd been dying for! Messes, messes everywhere! I see you were busy codying, adding ministers, etc. Glad to see Transcaucasia and Kurdistan united. Though it's odd seeing that blob of Don Kuban still alive, it's tolerable, given we don't want to awaken the Russian beast.
Nice mess they got going on in the Middle East. Fascinating that the A-H situation ended up happening in a fashion to the Turks. It's interesting - not at all the usual dichotomy of alternate timelines where either the imperial system falls or it stays retrenchant as it has been for hundreds of years - very creative move there! So I assume with Osman becoming a Western style Emperor (or Arch-King...?), the position of Caliph is presently empty? If so, that spells new...opportunities, for certain actors around the world.
I don't see Judea being as strong or vibrant in this world as Israel is. They don't have the migration imperative OTL's Jewish people had, they don't have the same sense of fight or die, they don't have a very real near-annihilation of their people as a reminder of the price of failure, they are excluding most of European Jewry in general in the first place being a purposeful British colony, they won't have the formidable military machine Israel has in our time, they won't have as many bright minds emigrating there, they won't even have aspects like the conscript army (being always guaranteed Entente protection, no need)...I mean sure it'll be a pretty tough nut to crack in time, but it simply won't be what makes Israel the powerhouse it is relative to it's size and situation that it is in our time. As for the Sauds, they aren't necessarily predestined to win - I doubt the Western powers would let the new Hashemites fall. In time, after a war, they may find themselves divided in two like Yemen was.
Also, thanks for giving Germany a bone and finally letting them win diplomatically against the sneaky Empire for once! The next Shah will hopefully truly be formidable! Iran is certainly in the contender for one of the powers that most won out from the overall war. It may be hard to keep southern OTL Iraq, though it may not. While this is a different time, nationalism was generally stronger than religion. France certainly chalked up some wins. I guess, speaking from a power play, more or less everyone 'won' in the end. France got and will incorporate Libya and Sudan in time, Germany retained Egypt, the Empire got their Judea, the Syndicals united and are on the path to forming a new power, Iran expanded vastly, Germany retained their influence over Germany at the cost of the Empire, Hashemites finally solidified under what may be a strong leader - even Turkey won, in a way. Arms shipments with more on where that came from, a reformist and industrial vision, and all dead weight of the old imperial system gone, and they didn't even lose everything. In time, they too will grow.
All in all, a great update! Now you're making me look really bad, delaying my own AAR this long! Dammit...
A slight niggle, but I'd probably change the name of Wahhabistan - stan is a suffix of Iranic and descendant cultures in general ("land of"). Arabs don't use it, or wouldn't at least, in this era of nationalism. The Central Asian khanates all used to be part of the Iranian cultural sphere, hence why those names and words still stick.
Nice mess they got going on in the Middle East
. Fascinating that the A-H situation ended up happening in a fashion to the Turks. It's interesting - not at all the usual dichotomy of alternate timelines where either the imperial system falls or it stays retrenchant as it has been for hundreds of years - very creative move there! So I assume with Osman becoming a Western style Emperor (or Arch-King...?), the position of Caliph is presently empty? If so, that spells new...opportunities, for certain actors around the world. I don't see Judea being as strong or vibrant in this world as Israel is. They don't have the migration imperative OTL's Jewish people had, they don't have the same sense of fight or die, they don't have a very real near-annihilation of their people as a reminder of the price of failure, they are excluding most of European Jewry in general in the first place being a purposeful British colony, they won't have the formidable military machine Israel has in our time, they won't have as many bright minds emigrating there, they won't even have aspects like the conscript army (being always guaranteed Entente protection, no need)...I mean sure it'll be a pretty tough nut to crack in time, but it simply won't be what makes Israel the powerhouse it is relative to it's size and situation that it is in our time. As for the Sauds, they aren't necessarily predestined to win - I doubt the Western powers would let the new Hashemites fall. In time, after a war, they may find themselves divided in two like Yemen was.
Also, thanks for giving Germany a bone and finally letting them win diplomatically against the sneaky Empire for once! The next Shah will hopefully truly be formidable! Iran is certainly in the contender for one of the powers that most won out from the overall war. It may be hard to keep southern OTL Iraq, though it may not. While this is a different time, nationalism was generally stronger than religion. France certainly chalked up some wins. I guess, speaking from a power play, more or less everyone 'won' in the end. France got and will incorporate Libya and Sudan in time, Germany retained Egypt, the Empire got their Judea, the Syndicals united and are on the path to forming a new power, Iran expanded vastly, Germany retained their influence over Germany at the cost of the Empire, Hashemites finally solidified under what may be a strong leader - even Turkey won, in a way. Arms shipments with more on where that came from, a reformist and industrial vision, and all dead weight of the old imperial system gone, and they didn't even lose everything. In time, they too will grow.
All in all, a great update! Now you're making me look really bad, delaying my own AAR this long! Dammit...
A slight niggle, but I'd probably change the name of Wahhabistan - stan is a suffix of Iranic and descendant cultures in general ("land of"). Arabs don't use it, or wouldn't at least, in this era of nationalism. The Central Asian khanates all used to be part of the Iranian cultural sphere, hence why those names and words still stick.
