• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Senator Ioannes Raoul (White) :

"But honorable Speaker Colombo not inviting the Italians, would only strengthen the idea that they are oppressed by the Imperium. Can we risk to see Italy enter the same rebellion as Egypt is facing right now ? I don't think so. And remember that this proposition comes from the Emperor and his Council ? Do you think they would have not thought of such a thing ? The Synod will see the best elements of the Church debate in the apostolical tradition. I'm confident in the fact that a mere woman will not be able to discredit it.

Mandromenos, you are right on the canons of the Church concerning these affairs. But we have to look at the facts. If we can believe these maps and censuses present here then nearly 1 soul out of 5 in the Imperium follows the wicked teachings of Angelina. Can we afford to not accomodate the law in these times of need and then see the danger growing, again ?"
 
Senator Marius Serapis of the White Demes

Senator Alexius Colombo (Blue Demes Speaker):

"I have not yet made up my mind on this matter, but I lean against inviting them. On the one hand, it could legitimatize the proceedings like you say, but there are reasons not to bring them.

The problem is that Sophia is an excellent public speaker and orator. It is entirely possible that she will outwit the tribunal in front of the Italians and Egyptians, make the Imperium look weak and ineffectual. There is precedence in her visits to Alexandria and Venice that she can outsmart even learned priests in front of crowds, convincing them...

So yes, there is a great danger involved."

"That will be a problem in either case, Speaker Colombo. A synod can not be held behind locked doors and even a trial must be made in public to have any credibility. A trial before a closed court would have no legitimacy in the eyes of anyone whose even considered believing her blasphemies."

Her name prevents us from seriously considering less noble solutions. Anyone other than an Angeloi could perhaps be drugged and dropped in a brothel for her followers to find consorting with Xenoi or other animals. Ah, but surely that could not be spoken out loud even now, he thinks wistfully to himself.

{{I really wanted my Senator to say that last part, but wasn't as keen on the idea of him being decapitated in the senate courtyard.}}
 
Senator Ioannes Raoul (White) :

"But honorable Speaker Colombo not inviting the Italians, would only strengthen the idea that they are oppressed by the Imperium. Can we risk to see Italy enter the same rebellion as Egypt is facing right now ? I don't think so. And remember that this proposition comes from the Emperor and his Council ? Do you think they would have not thought of such a thing ? The Synod will see the best elements of the Church debate in the apostolical tradition. I'm confident in the fact that a mere woman will not be able to discredit it.

Mandromenos, you are right on the canons of the Church concerning these affairs. But we have to look at the facts. If we can believe these maps and censuses present here then nearly 1 soul out of 5 in the Imperium follows the wicked teachings of Angelina. Can we afford to not accomodate the law in these times of need and then see the danger growing, again ?"

Senator Philaretos Mandromenos (Red Demes):

If the followers of Sophia are as many as you say, and I do not doubt the information in front of us, will their truly be no bishop in Aegyptus that has been swayed by her words? And will the bishops from the dioesces of Italia, selected from the Italian Familys of the area, act in the stead of their families? The heretics and the Italians won't be excluded, far from it, they will be given a place in the Synod, even without the Lightbringer and the patricians present. I see no reason why we should give them more representation than the Greeks who have stood by the Imperium since the fall of the West in the fifth century. The bishops that they rightfully have is enough. The trial is also give Sophia Angelos more than she deserves. I do not see an Angeloi, even a heretic, to not be allowed to explain herself to her patriarch, the Emperor. She will be allowed to ask and answer for herself. Her trial will be for her alone, for the fate of her teaching should have been already decided. I do not see why any group should see special treatment. The traditions of the Imperium have carried us far, it would be wrong to forsake them now.
 
Senator Philaretos Mandromenos (Red Demes):

If the followers of Sophia are as many as you say, and I do not doubt the information in front of us, will their truly be no bishop in Aegyptus that has been swayed by her words? And will the bishops from the dioesces of Italia, selected from the Italian Familys of the area, act in the stead of their families? The heretics and the Italians won't be excluded, far from it, they will be given a place in the Synod, even without the Lightbringer and the patricians present. I see no reason why we should give them more representation than the Greeks who have stood by the Imperium since the fall of the West in the fifth century. The bishops that they rightfully have is enough. The trial is also give Sophia Angelos more than she deserves. I do not see an Angeloi, even a heretic, to not be allowed to explain herself to her patriarch, the Emperor. She will be allowed to ask and answer for herself. Her trial will be for her alone, for the fate of her teaching should have been already decided. I do not see why any group should see special treatment. The traditions of the Imperium have carried us far, it would be wrong to forsake them now.

Senator Ioannes Raoul (White) :
"Greeks have been swayed too, Smyrna is Greek, and so is the Coast of Anatolia. But maybe would you exclude them too from the Synod ?"
 
Senator Belissarios Leonidos (White Demes)

"Senator Serapis, I agree that perhaps a compromise can be done and hold both a Synod and a trial. I merely wish for the Synod to be held to denounce Sophia's teachings, give her flock a chance to convert, and perhaps even give her a chance to abandon her heretical thoughts and rejoin the ranks of true Christians.

"Senator Raoul, bringing the Lombard snakes to the trial is clearly a mistake. They will solely serve to influence the vote - after all, we do not know how many of the holy men of our realm are susceptable to corruption." *Glares briefly at di Capponi*

"But let us not forget that the Angelodoulism concerns are not the only reason we are here. I want to hear everyone else's concerns on raising tarrifs on the Exarchs. I for one oppose them, their loyalty is shakey even now."

{{Well I'm calling it for the night, see you in about ten hours.}}
 
Senator Alexios Este-Ravenna (Red Demes Speaker):

**Alexios is tired. Still a large man, his once ink black hair has gone wholly to silver, and the weight of time presses upon his broad shoulders. The past years have been fraught with difficulties; Dalessenos was a harsh task master, and his leash was short indeed. Worse yet the chaos at home- the heretics had yet to reach his family's lands, but he believed it only a matter of time. Worse yet, some of his cousins in Venice had been among the earliest to support the Angeloduli, and the pollitical implications for his position as Faction Speaker, kept him awake for many sleepless nights. Yet his service had not gone unnoticed- the emperor himself had paid him notice, as an Italian and the Vice President of the Senate, he and other Reds were finally accorded the respect they deserved.*

"My fellow senators, I will be blunt- Rome teeters on the brink of collapse. Egypt has already succumbed to the siren song of heresy, and now Italy itself has been tainted... even before the misguided actions of the Sophia of the Great and Noble House Angelos brought many to ruin within the Veneto, there was talk of insurrection... if the Senate were to order Sophia's arrest the order would need to be followed with an army.

The calling of a Synod has this advantage- it would be more likely to bring Sophia and her followers to Constantinople of their own accord, where they may be shown the error of their ways. The Angeloduli speak to a poison festering within Rome for many years, one which must be let to air so that they may be purged as a doctor lets blood."
 
Senator Ioannes Raoul (White) :
"Greeks have been swayed too, Smyrna is Greek, and so is the Coast of Anatolia. But maybe would you exclude them too from the Synod ?"

Senator Philaretos Mandromenos (Red Demes);

Forgive me my esteemed colleague, but I do not recall advocating to exclude any rightful party from the Synod or Trial. I reject the notion that extra parties should be present at either. I would not be present at the Synod, my local bishop, the Bishop of Morea, will be there in my stead. I know that I have no place there. Similarly, I have no place in the trial, but I know that the judges will decide in my place. I have faith in my Imperium, why not you Raoul? Why do you doubt the Emperor?
 
Senator Jakov Desmerti

I disagree. The matters of the Church are to be handled by the Church alone. If we decide to convene the Synod, we do not need the Sophia or the Italians present. Without their corruptive influences, I believe they will make the proper decision. And if they don't, we can always purge the Bishops and purify them with fire. The heretics that follow Sophia will be put on trial with her and cleansed by holy fire. This is the only path to save the Imperium, if we remain divided we will fall, but if we strike a decisive blow against the fools....

"I fear that we risk underestimating the strength of this movement, neither a synod nor any military action would end the heresy without weakening the imperium. Our only hope lies in having Sophia herself admitting her heresy, and publicly repenting. Any minor scarring she may have occured in her path to enlightenment, could be... overlooked"

Senator Alexius Colombo(Blue Demes Speaker):

*Alexius has spent the last six years in the service of the Komnenoi. In order to prevent the ascension of the Dalassenoi, and to protect his secret, he has helped wage a secret war, a war of knives and teeth in the dark. All for the Komnenos, his family in law and benefactors. Blood is stronger than Gold and Blackmail.*

*Alexius sits down in his chair, his hipflask full to the brim. He smiles, and begins to speak.*

"It is good to see so many old faces, old friends, old prey, er, presenters."

"Before we begin, we must appreciate the increased role given to the Senate. Appreciate not just the honor, but the importance attached. Such honors do not come from nowhere..."

*Alexius has spent the last six years in the service of the Dalassenoi. In order to destroy the Konmenoi, and to protect his secret, he has helped wage a secret war, a war of knives and teeth in the dark. All for the Dalassenoi, his new benefactors...and secret holders. Blackmail and Gold are stronger than Blood.*


"I would also like to take a moment to thank the President of the Senate for being here today. He and his family are inspirations to us all."

*Alexius has spent the last six years in the service of the Emperor. In order to destroy the power of the Dynatoi, and therefore any knowledge of his secret, he has helped wage a secret war, a war of knives and teeth in the dark. All for the Emperor. And himself.*


"Now, to business. It is good to see so many of my fellow Senators agreeing that theologically, we cannot compromise with the Sophites. To do so would be to question the authority of the Emperor himself, not to mention that of God's."

*Alexius has spent the last six years in the service of Sophia. In order to destroy the social mores of the Imperium, and therefore the relevance of his secret, he has helped wage a secret war, a war of knives and teeth in the dark. All for Sophia. And himself.*

"I do not trust the Black Tagma to bring her here. They have failed twice already to do so. We must find another way to get her here..."

*He smiles, and reveals his teeth. His now sharp, pointed, shark-like teeth*

Near the end of Alexius' speech Jakov glances at a small wooden container lying next to him, the lid ajar, inside some coal, a brazier, and some skewers can be seen, as well as some unidentifiable meat. He smiles slightly at Colombo, and closes the box.

{{Edit: Thanks @Mach Twelve}}
 
Last edited:
{{Edit your statement to have your name/demes so you don't get a strike @JerichoRoker }}

{{EDIT: Now you need to use double brackets for OOC comments... You're Welcome though.}}
 
Last edited:
Senator Magnus Arrius (Blue Demes):

*The young Magnus, now head of his house after his father died in the December Massacre, shakes his head is disgust at what his fellow Senators are saying.*
"Gentlemen, I am disappointed. My father spoke highly of the Senate, yet I am shocked by what I hear. Sophia is a member of the royal family, who was given leave by the Augustus Himself to aid the people. Her teachings have saved her followers from the suffering that has ravaged the Imperium elsewhere. I agree that she should be brought here to speak with us, but not to punish or disown her. We should listen to her, seek her advice.

The poor are in open rebellion against us, yet they love her. I have heard some of you say that if she was contained, people would never have followed her. What if we had listened? The poor do not rise against her. Perhaps the December Massacre would never have taken place. She must be brought here. Not as a prisoner, but as the most honored guest. If possible, she should meet with the Augustus. She was trusted to go help people. Perhaps he, in his infinite wisdom, would like to hear from her."

{{Sorry about my delay, I've been celebrating Halloween.}}
 
Senator Philaretos Mandromenos (Red Demes):

*The young Magnus, now head of his house after his father died in the December Massacre, shakes his head is disgust at what his fellow Senators are saying.*
"Gentlemen, I am disappointed. My father spoke highly of the Senate, yet I am shocked by what I hear. Sophia is a member of the royal family, who was given leave by the Augustus Himself to aid the people. Her teachings have saved her followers from the suffering that has ravaged the Imperium elsewhere. I agree that she should be brought here to speak with us, but not to punish or disown her. We should listen to her, seek her advice.

*Philaretos shakes his head and chuckles to himself lightly. He mutters so quietly, only the Reds can hear him, if barely*
He would allow a woman to spout heterodox teachings without even considering action? Clearly the Blues have been infected by her heresy. Perhaps we need to end this Session with a burning...


The poor are in open rebellion against us, yet they love her. I have heard some of you say that if she was contained, people would never have followed her. What if we had listened? The poor do not rise against her. Perhaps the December Massacre would never have taken place. She must be brought here. Not as a prisoner, but as the most honored guest. If possible, she should meet with the Augustus. She was trusted to go help people. Perhaps he, in his infinite wisdom, would like to hear from her."

The Angelodouloi are a new sect, one wholly dependent on their leader to continue to exist. To them, she is the only source of truth. Silencing her, either by isolation or death, will make this new sect collapse into nothingness as quickly as it rose. She is trusted because of her skills in oration and theology cloud the minds of men. We have our own rhetoric, logic, and theology. If we silence the heretics main source of persuasion and apply our own, this new sect will join the countless others in rightful obscurity. While some of us may shy away from a final solution to the Angelodouloi Problem, perhaps we can imprison the Lightbringer in a unknown location with guards who know the temptress's ways. I know Morea is seen as a backwater to some of you, but in a few more years I will have men that will be unstoppable in the faith and the field of battle that may prove to be the right men to detain Sophia the former Angeloi.
 
Last edited:
Senator Flavius Lucius Mojmirid
Hooded and cloaked, it would have been easy to miss Flavius. Keeping quiet was his specialty after all. After a long period of debate Flavius finally decided now was the time to address his fellow Senators. Standing, Flavius, who had long held his tongue spoke up.

Dear Senators.
Flavius' voice was soft and quiet almost like a breeze. I am sure we are all aware that this woman is clearly not a prophet. However you are right that she is dangerous, in more ways than one. Although her goals seem to be focused on spreading the word of her beliefs to the masses it will not remain so. In similar fashion to our Holy Autokrator and being God's regent on earth, she will seek to claim this title, and the mantel of our weakened nation. She seeks to rule as most religious leaders like to do.

{{I am writing this from my phone. I don't have access to a computer right now so posting is difficult.}}
 
{{I'm glad I remembered despite forum notifications being forum notifications and not telling me there's new stuff here. Senator Salamis will join the debate soon since Sunday is the first work/school day of the week here.}}
 
Last edited:
Senator Jakov Desmerti (Red Demes):

The Angelodouloi are a new sect, one wholly dependent on their leader to continue to exist. To them, she is the only source of truth. Silencing her, either by isolation or death, will make this new sect collapse into nothingness as quickly as it rose. She is trusted because of her skills in oration and theology cloud the minds of men. We have our own rhetoric, logic, and theology. If we silence the heretics main source of persuasion and apply our own, this new sect will join the countless others in rightful obscurity. While some of us may shy away from a final solution to the Angelodouloi Problem, perhaps we can imprison the Lightbringer in a unknown location with guards who know the temptress's ways. I know Morea is seen as a backwater to some of you, but in a few more years I will have men that will be unstoppable in the faith and the field of battle that may prove to be the right men to detain Sophia the former Angeloi.

"I would be careful my friend. Sometimes the removal of a fanatics leader may only inspire a hundred replacements. To give a example, in my estate, during the reign of my older brother *he grimaces slightly*, some peasants raised issue with some taxes he imposed to cover his drinking and ineptitude. The idiot put together some men at arms and rode into the rabble, he executed their leader himself, and went home. To celebrate his 'victory' he held a great feast and invited the whole estate. The next morning, he awoke from his stupor to find the surrounding area pillaged, and some eight score peasants attempting to force the main door of the manor. They were following the orders of their new leader, who told them to avenge their 'martyr'. My brother wanted to charge them again with half a dozen drunken soldiers. I convinced him to let them in, where we offered them some golden silverware and horses, on the condition that they could not share it with the rest of the mob. After they departed, the others chased down the rebels on their old and injured horses, lynched them, and then shared out the hastily gilded silverware we had provided. I am as much a military man as you Senator Mandromenos, but some times guile and tactics can outmaneuver brute force."
 
Senator Nikephoros IV Salamis (Blue Demes):
*When Nikephoros enters the hall at the beginning of the session, it is apparent that he changed. The young Senator enters wearing an army officer uniform with the sigil of house Salamis, a white parchment on a field of Blue, embroidered on its chest. He walks quickly, his boots sounding on the marble floor. Many seemed surprised by his new clothes- the Nikephoros who participated in the sixth Senate session seemed very unlikely to join the army. This change happened after Nikephoros had a nervous breakdown trying to deal with some political issue concerning his demes- he gave the political reigns of his house to his young cousin Kevanus and would even let him represent it in the Senate if he wasn't too young. Nikephoros then tried joining the Navy... But alas, he got seasick. To his surprise, he was successful in the army and risen to the rank of officer, becoming more of a purple Senator than a blue one. Now he was in the Senate, and it was the last place in the world he wanted to be in.*
Honorable Senators, my fellows. I am glad to see you again, glad for any of you who survived the horrible december massacre and the hoi polloi. As to the issues before us, I agree that instead of outright executing Lady Sophia after a trial and further inflaming the filth... The peasants, we must convene a synod, invite Sophia and the Italian Patricians, and put her to such a shame that following her would be way under the rank and honor of swineherds. As to further taxing the exarchates, it would be foolish.
*Finishing his blunt speech, Nikephoros sits back down and washes his hands again in his good old basin of soap and water. The plague may be over, but old habits die hard.*
 
Senator Markus von Habsburg (still unaffiliated):

"My fellow Senators, first of all let me say that it is a great pleasure to be back in the City, even after... well, you know. But a city is just like an army, it requires discipline and a firm hand to direct, ja. As for the topic at hand, you have all made some valid points - yet I think there is a better way to look at it. We regard it as a problem to be solved, but why not as an opportunity to be taken advantage of? The Lady Angelos has amassed a large number of syncophants and malcontents in her private army, ja. An army which can be a threat to the Reich and the Holy Kaiser - but just as well to the Kaiser's enemies! If we call the Synod and challenge her to battle the abhorrent Xenoi and their ilk, we can only win. Either she loses and her heresy is discredited, or she wins a victory for the Reich without any effort or expenditure on our side. The scholars can then clarify the finer points of the faith, but a free fighting force should never be given to our enemies when we can take it for the Reich."
 
Senator Lazaros II. Melissenos (White Demes)

*Lazaros speaks to the Senate.*

Fellow Senators. It is clear to me, that we need to exercise extreme caution in this matter and I'm glad to hear most senators speak with a voice of reason. I think it is clear, that we can't let the so called “Lady Angelina” continue to preach and spread her twisted version of out faith. But what ever we do, we need to make sure not to alienate her followers but to detach her from them. I'm sure that out esteemed red senators can estimate the concrete military threat of this people better than me, a man of the finances. But everyone who has spend the last decades here in Constantinople or in one of many other parts of the emperor can attest to the fact, that the so called “hoi polloi”is a threat nonetheless.

The empire has bleed, my friends. It has bleed through the plaque, it has bleed through civil war and if we don't act careful, it will bleed through the scavengers that surround us. They already have made there moves. Against Ceylon, which we couldn't protect. Against Moldau, which we couldn't protect. That alone let me question, if we would be able to protect ourselves, but also think of the picture that the defender of christendom isn't able to defend christendom anymore. Doesn't it invite heresies like the ones we are witnessing?

I say we need to get our house in order and we need to do it peacefully, lest the Imperium falls apart and with it, all of christendom falls into a dark age never before witnessed in the world.
 
Senator Andronikos Ouranos (White Demes):

*The grandson of the elderly Iskandar Ouranos - brutally murdered in the streets of Constantinople at the age of 79 - had been sitting quietly in his seat, watching the Senators debate over the issue. He gives a nod towards Senator Pylaeus, putting a hand over his heart to convey the fact that Iskandar died. He then addresses those that would listen to him with a suave voice.*

Most honourable Senators, we underestimate the impact that Lady Sophia has had on the populace - Her teachings are entrenched as much as a century old tree has roots beneath the ground. Her disposal will do nothing more than aggravate the situation and not at all shake the beliefs of her followers. After all, once the Christ died for our sins *Andronikos does the sign of the cross quickly*, Christianity did not die out like the Jews expected it to. The same can be said for the Mohammed of Islam.

If she were to be disposed, she will be made nothing short than a deity to worship by the blinded populace - and another one of her influential fanatics will lead the charge. Nay, the Synodos must be convened with all attending, logic and theology shall free the hearts of her aristocratic followers and the people will follow shortly thereafter. But above all else, Sophia Angelos must not die, or the Imperium shall burn.
 
{{We're such optimists. Because calling Luther to refute his teachings worked so incredibly well. ;)}}
 
{{We're such optimists. Because calling Luther to refute his teachings worked so incredibly well. ;)}}

{{*whisper* shush that would the telling, the others don't know}}