This Is Madness 2 - Imperium Sine Fine (Interactive Mega Campaign)

[ParrotGuy]

Well, GoT refrences. Does that mean that the Senate is going to turn much more brutal?

 

[Leandor]

Hmf. I'm confident that our sacred institutions will find the light of truth and release the blue senators. Saint Markos guides the hand of our Imperator, Basileus Basileon, and justice will soon come to cut off the head of the true responsible.

Nah, just kidding. Ramsay there is... Uh... Troubling. I only see possible to survive if you use your right cards at the right moment, and maybe setting suspicions on other acussed. Uhm, who knows.

 

[Attalus]

I'd say Bubba- certainly not the Kasteloi with their heretic trading, Cortez an Arrius seem decent but still not that honorable, but Bubba seems to be a man of honor- it may get him killed
He is also a foreigner in the capital (like Northmen in King's Landing), so that's another similarity.

Diaver is basically Petyr or his father surely was (that's a compliment )


BTW it's quite hard to establish a clear view of the Senate politics. back in the days the separation was clearer : warmongers in the Red, merchants in the Blues and mad priests in the Whites. Colombo blurred the limits by being clearly a Blue in disguise but the rest was basically still in a faction for good reasons.

Now we have become more V2 in practice. We have a ideological divide and issues that makes the Demes a meeting of people with a rough objective but different agendas. (like in V2 when you can have different liberal/conservative parties with different stances on some issue). Alexandros was basically a noble merchant, attached to the Blues and his honor but contradicting himself on some matters.

 

[ParrotGuy]

Diaver is basically Petyr or his father surely was (that's a compliment )


BTW it's quite hard to establish a clear view of the Senate politics. back in the days the separation was clearer : warmongers in the Red, merchants in the Blues and mad priests in the Whites. Colombo blurred the limits by being clearly a Blue in disguise but the rest was basically still in a faction for good reasons.

Now we have become more V2 in practice. We have a ideological divide and issues that makes the Demes a meeting of people with a rough objective but different agendas. (like in V2 when you can have different liberal/conservative parties with different stances on some issue). Alexandros was basically a noble merchant, attached to the Blues and his honor but contradicting himself on some matters.

Herakleios was MEANT to be a more sly than his predecessors, but he missed most of the session and arrived just in time to be poisoned.
I actualy have a story line for my house tucked in my Google Docs for months where a White Demes supporting branch of the family takes power, and when this new White head of the house dies a civil war erupts in the house, in the end of which the Blue supporters seize power again, but as I am Blue, I always have to delay it- last time because the Blues were in power and the Imperium defeated the Xenoi so I wanted to be part of the fun, and this time to defend the Blue Demes after the blow they took.
I'm always doing foreshadowing through- my character telling about family conflicts with White supporters, and this character late because of 'family bussiness'. And with a bloodied sword.

 

[Tristanxh]

I'm sorry, but we Senators are from the Aristoi, not the Dynatoi. We are from a lower class than the Dynatoi, we hold much less lands if we even hold land. for example, there was a Senator who held some lands in Serbia, while my Senator holds a castle- a big castle, yet still a castle, and some lands surrounding it including a city (the second biggest after Athens in the area, but still- a small patch of land). But the Dynatoi, they hold big lands and they have a lot of influence, much more than we.
The Dalasennes are Dynatoi, and as such- they are more prestigeous than our families. If you claim your family is more prestigous than theirs, then your family is a Dynatoi family and as such, I believe, not really allowed to be in the Senate.

Actually, prestige doesn't mean he isn't Aristoi as though they were an Imperial family, they fell HARD. As such they aren't Dynastoi, but prestige doesn't vanish due to one prick who couldn't decide between Orthodox and Iconclast so he changed every weekend.

IRL MY (not character) family had been lesser / middle nobility. Due to some turns of events, we no longer stomp over peasants, and most of us live as commoners.

Tides change in an instant, and can lower one's social status, but prestige, even if seemingly meaningless doesn't disappear , after all I'm still of noble blood am I not?

^ Not trying to sound pompous or anything, I just think personal examples matter, due to the fact it means you know something about it.

Not at all. Take a look at this simplistic diagram:

legal institutions of Roman Republic (before 1st century BC) <------> legal institutions of Roman Empire (before 5th century AD)
legal institutions of Roman Empire (before 5th century AD) <-----------> legal institutions of Eastern Roman Empire
legal institutions of Eastern Roman Empire (before 11th century AD) <----------------> legal institutions of medieval Eastern Roman Empire
legal institutions of Eastern Roman Empire (after 11th century AD) <-------------------------------> legal institutions of Imperium Romanum after Sunset Invasion (16th century AD)

Assassination of megas droungarios is comparable to assassination of, say, Secretary of State in USA and would be treated as an act of terrorism. Let me remind you that USA uses unlawful abductions, drone strikes, detention with no right to appeal and inhuman and degrading torture including waterboarding, sleep deprivation, beating and rectal feeding, not to mention several cases in which the deteiness were allegedly raped. And this is a modern democratic country with Bill of Rights, rule of law and all that Enlightment-related stuff - which didn't stop it from breaking United Nations Convention against Torture and virtually all human rights.

So to reply to your list of "rights":

If anything imperial dungeons are less horrifying than Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib because the Athanatoi don't have the knowledge of physiology, psychology and anatomy we have today, not to mention technical capabilities.

Well, sitting US Senators wouldn't be accused of murdering the Secretary of State, without HARD evidence.
But I do see your well made point of diminishing rights and wacky legal system...
It may help if you make a diagram / explain the modern system, as we have no historical basis.
But I understand that that may take more time than it's worth, but if you do find time please do.

If that is a representation of how the four awaiting trial are being treated, we should probably just start confessing to everything we can think of so death arrives sooner.

Don't say a thing! I will be the Blue legal counselor... in this system I know nothing about!

We were going to kill one of the sick ones if they didn't comply...

OH! Kill one of the sick ones, what are you going to do if that doesn't work? Waterboard the elderly?

Yes... Yes they will...

Oatmeal raisin cookies!

In regards to civil rights... the Blues are doomed. Doomed I tell ya!
Sad Bubba will die (and I'm kind of resigned to his death... though the Emperor could pardon him, maybe? Pretty please with a cherry on top?) but thems the breaks....

Agreed! Pardon Bubba! they must have coerced! They threatened his life! He had nothing to do with it!!

 

[Attalus]

Actually, prestige doesn't mean he isn't Aristoi as though they were an Imperial family, they fell HARD. As such they aren't Dynastoi, but prestige doesn't vanish due to one prick who couldn't decide between Orthodox and Iconclast so he changed every weekend.

IRL MY (not character) family had been lesser / middle nobility. Due to some turns of events, we no longer stomp over peasants, and most of us live as commoners.

Tides change in an instant, and can lower one's social status, but prestige, even if seemingly meaningless doesn't disappear , after all I'm still of noble blood am I not?

^ Not trying to sound pompous or anything, I just think personal examples matter, due to the fact it means you know something about it.

Actually I don't think for RP reasons you can be a real Isaurian. First for this and also because the Families often were exterminated by the new ones. Remember where the Doukas are now ?
But well it's up to Czoklet to decide on this when we apply characters. A story of a bastard line who was allowed by the Angeloi to use the old seems more plausible to me

 

[DKM]

Just let it go. It's adds to the fun without any harm. Besides, I can't find any information on the Isaurian dynasty post-emperor so let's just assume that they kept track of their heritage because they were proud of it. I wish for more tension without death. Death and scheming becomes boring without anything fresh. Also, your link is a statement by yourself stating that people can claim they're descended from whomever they wish but it doesn't mean anything. There's a difference here. Your's is about claims and his backstory that he's making has it to where they have a tracked family history to the Imperial Isaurians.

Spoiler: Oxford Dictionary Definition of Claim

claim - [verb] 1 - state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof:
assert that one has gained or achieved (something)
formally request or demand; say that one owns or has earned (something)
make a demand for (money) under the terms of an insurance policy
call for (someone's notice and thought)
cause the loss of (someone's life)

[Noun] 1 - an assertion of the truth of something, typically one that is disputed or in doubt
2 - a demand or request for something considered one's due

 

[Tristanxh]

this and also because the Families often were exterminated by the new ones. Remember where the Doukas are now ?
But well it's up to Czoklet to decide on this when we apply characters. A story of a bastard line who was allowed by the Angeloi to use the old seems more plausible to me

You accidentally left that after the *[/Quote]*

How about a minor branch that was granted the Main dynasty's name / prestige?

Just let it go. It's adds to the fun without any harm. Besides, I can't find any information on the Isaurian dynasty post-emperor so let's just assume that they kept track of their heritage because they were proud of it. I wish for more tension without death. Death and scheming becomes boring without anything fresh. Also, your link is a statement by yourself stating that people can claim they're descended from whomever they wish but it doesn't mean anything. There's a difference here. Your's is about claims and his backstory that he's making has it to where they have a tracked family history to the Imperial Isaurians.

Spoiler: Oxford Dictionary Definition of Claim

claim - [verb] 1 - state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof:
assert that one has gained or achieved (something)
formally request or demand; say that one owns or has earned (something)
make a demand for (money) under the terms of an insurance policy
call for (someone's notice and thought)
cause the loss of (someone's life)

[Noun] 1 - an assertion of the truth of something, typically one that is disputed or in doubt
2 - a demand or request for something considered one's due

DKM, true, but perhaps they might decide to dispute that, in saying that said family history is a forgery, in which case they would consider it a claim?

^ I'm just stating why they may consider it a claim.

 

[Attalus]

Just let it go. It's adds to the fun without any harm. Besides, I can't find any information on the Isaurian dynasty post-emperor so let's just assume that they kept track of their heritage because they were proud of it. I wish for more tension without death. Death and scheming becomes boring without anything fresh. Also, your link is a statement by yourself stating that people can claim they're descended from whomever they wish but it doesn't mean anything. There's a difference here. Your's is about claims and his backstory that he's making has it to where they have a tracked family history to the Imperial Isaurians.

Spoiler: Oxford Dictionary Definition of Claim

claim - [verb] 1 - state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof:
assert that one has gained or achieved (something)
formally request or demand; say that one owns or has earned (something)
make a demand for (money) under the terms of an insurance policy
call for (someone's notice and thought)
cause the loss of (someone's life)

[Noun] 1 - an assertion of the truth of something, typically one that is disputed or in doubt
2 - a demand or request for something considered one's due

You accidentally left that after the *

*

How about a minor branch that was granted the Main dynasty's name / prestige?[/QUOTE]

Damn that's fixed

As I said I have no part in the decision process, just that being descended (and keeping track of it moreover) from an Imperial Dynasty is pretty much impossible and would be a claim at best but I have no problems with it if the Great Master allows it

 

[Tristanxh]

*

How about a minor branch that was granted the Main dynasty's name / prestige?

Damn that's fixed

As I said I have no part in the decision process, just that being descended (and keeping track of it moreover) from an Imperial Dynasty is pretty much impossible and would be a claim at best but I have no problems with it if the Great Master allows it

You still messed up the quotes here

Well hopefully he'll just give it a green light with no edits on that part.
I'm not quite sure why it would be impossible to track, as the reason we can't track it today is due to missing records after Alexandria / Constantinople falling.
While Constantinople didn't fall in TIS, thus all records should be accounted for?

 

[DKM]

How about a minor branch that was granted the Main dynasty's name / prestige?

Damn that's fixed

As I said I have no part in the decision process, just that being descended (and keeping track of it moreover) from an Imperial Dynasty is pretty much impossible and would be a claim at best but I have no problems with it if the Great Master allows it

I realize that, however, if he/she or anyone makes a family that somehow does (not just claim they do) then just let it go.

 

[Tristanxh]

I realize that, however, if he/she or anyone makes a family that somehow does (not just claim they do) then just let it go.

Thanks DKM

 

[Attalus]

You still messed up the quotes here

Well hopefully he'll just give it a green light with no edits on that part.
I'm not quite sure why it would be impossible to track, as the reason we can't track it today is due to missing records after Alexandria / Constantinople falling.
While Constantinople didn't fall in TIS, thus all records should be accounted for?

Damn that's not my day !

Well I will not continue into this, it's just some RP

BS about America's treatment of terrorists and murderers makes me go into angry rants, so I've covered this in a spoiler.

Spoiler

I swear, every time someone turns a terrorist into a victim, my blood boils.

1. "Unlawful abductions": Taking POWs is not kidnapping. I am sure all those people were there harvesting pumpkins and not conspiring to murder Americans.
2. Drone strikes: I agree that we shouldn't be bombing American citizens without first revoking their citizenship by trial in absentee, but you have to be stupid to tell me that a foreigner that has constantly recruited people to kill Americans and anyone who doesn't agree with radical Islam extremism deserves anything except a missile up his butt.
3. POWs don't get rights to appeal.
4. Waterboarding, sleep depravation: ISIL rapes women, drowns and torches Christians, crucifies Yazidis and Christians alike, and sells slaves on open markets and you are butt hurt about us getting their heads wet?! Al-Qaeda flies planes into buildings and you're mad that we deny them sleep?! I don't care that torture doesn't extract information. We should be using torture as a deterrent and message, not just a technique to get intel. There is NEVER anything wrong with waterboarding rapists and monsters.
5. Raped detainees: your saintly innocents in Guantanamo throw feces, garbage, semen, and urine at guards. Do you honestly think these detainees are above lying and pretending to be oppressed?
6. Government data shows that at least twenty released "innocent" Guanatanamo detainees returned to the fight.

The propaganda spewed by Gitmo-coddlers has taken far too much hold in our society. These are not people we are dealing with: these are murderers, rapists, and people that want nothing except the Potomac to run red with the blood of every American, Jew, and anyone who opposes radical Islamic extremism, including their fellow Muslims.



TERRORISTS CAPTURED ON THE BATTLEFIELD TRYING TO MURDER INNOCENTS DO NOT HAVE RIGHTS. The United Nations is never too busy appointing Iran to women's rights commissions and North Korea to denucleraization boards to bash America for giving murderers a taste of what they do to us.

 

[TurtleShroom]

Thanks, I needed that. (It's good to see a fellow Poland Ball fan! )

Do you have any spare ointment? I need to give it to the peopel who are eternally butt hurt that we actually punish terrorists in Gitmo.

 

[TheAnguishedOne]

Okay, we need to stop this. We've gone off topic at this point. That topic will only lead to a lot of arguing. I doubt Czoklet wants us discussing that.

 

[Attalus]

Okay, we need to stop this. We've gone off topic at this point. That topic will only lead to a lot of arguing. I doubt Czoklet wants us discussing that.

Agreed. I shall refrain from posting until the interrogations begin !

 

[CzokletMuss]

Yes, the last 10-15 pages have gone off rails.

Please stop or I'll ask one of the mods to lock the thread for a week or something.

I won't discuss issues concerning human rights - in fact right now I'm playing "Imperium Sine Fine" and I'm currently in year 1548.

 

[Leandor]

I think that if you (you meaning everyone, including me) want to talk about OT, well, there is a sub forum for that. Czoklet has every right to enforce order and to call the assistance of a moderator because, since the beginning, this was a possible outcome with a regular and constant "mini" community here. So calm down, take a breath and praise Saint Markos.

That Polandball was a MASTERPIECE! Hahaha! I applaud you for bring it here just when it was needed. Aaand I'll shut up.

 

[Tristanxh]

I think that if you want to talk about OT, well, there is a sub forum for that. Czoklet has every right to enforce order and to call the assistance of a moderator because, since the beginning, this was a possible outcome with a regular and constant "mini" community here. So calm down, take a breath and praise Saint Markos.

Question, who are you talking to? Turtleshroom?

^ Sorry if it's obvious but, I was the last person to reply before you, and usually when a post is without a quote / tag it is to the person who last replied... <-- In my little experience that is.

 

[Leandor]

Question, who are you talking to? Turtleshroom?

^ Sorry if it's obvious but, I was the last person to reply before you, and usually when a post is without a quote / tag it is to the person who last replied... <-- In my little experience that is.

Ahm... I'm talking to everyone, I'll edit it to make it clear.

We have a nice place here guys, let's keep it that way.