Hi again folks! It's a big day today with the release of the Common Sense expansion for EUIV! Naturally, we are releasing a patch for CKII in tandem, in order to keep the save game converter up-to-date.

Patch Notes here:

Spoiler

- Updated government calculation to be up to date with EU4 1.12
- Fixed the localisation issues on Mac and Linux with country names
- Ibadi is now its own main religion like it should be

NOTE: We are aware of an issue on Mac and Linux caused by EU4's recent engine upgrade, which broke EU4's ability to find the exported games from CK2. For now, you have to manually copy the exported save from eu4_export/mod to EU4's mod folder but this will be fixed ASAP by the EU4 team.

Now then, this time I thought I'd talk about the internal dynamics of the nomadic hordes. As I mentioned last time, Nomads use population and manpower rather than relying on levies and taxes from Holdings, so they tend to have a lot fewer normal vassals than other realms. To compensate for this, Nomad hordes rely on a variable number of member Clans instead. The Clans are similar to regular vassals in some respects, except that they also employ Manpower and Population (oh, and you are allowed to play as a vassal Clan too, of course), and each Clan has a special opinion called Clan Sentiment of the other Clans, separate from that of its chief. As a horde grows, it will be encouraged to increase the number of member Clans. Likewise, you can have too many Clans for the amount of available land.

Effective management of the Clans takes some effort due to their infighting and Sentiments. We have added a new screen to give you a proper overview of the situation. Red lines between the Clans indicate an ongoing "Blood Feud" and green lines a "Blood Oath". A Clan can only have one "blood brother" Clan, but many feuds. Feuds are started either by simple declaration, or by raiding one of the other Clans in the realm... Yes, even though you might all be serving same Khan, nothing stops you from raiding a fellow Clan's land! Blood Oaths are similar to marriage alliances; they last as long as both of the Clan Chiefs are alive, but they are only type of alliance that allows you to call another Clan to war in internal wars (and that includes the Khan!) Blood Feuds are much more persistent and can only be settled with a payment of blood money... or by the other Clan's extinction.

Another twist to the Oath and Feud status is that actions taken against one Clan will affect the Sentiment of its enemy or blood brother, as appropriate. For example, an oath-bound Clan will also become hostile to whomever is raiding you, and will dislike any clans you are in Feud with for as long as the Oath lasts. Feuding parties are allowed to freely declare outright wars against each other, fighting over the grazing lands in a single county.

Clans can be a bit tricky to manage, not just because of their own infighting but also because they don't follow any system of laws like the Feudal realms do; they are more about frankly expecting and demanding things from their Khan. If they view the Khan as weak and pathetic they are quite prone to attempt to have him replaced with another Clan chief (usually through membership in a special Faction.)

Apart from proposing Blood Oaths and declaring Feuds, the Khan also has access to a number of special actions against the other Clans. He can demand that they split in order to maintain balance within the tribe, or even absorb them; unless they refuse, of course! Clans are also free to adopt the religion of another Clan, should they like it better for some reason (steppe nomads are fairly open-minded about religious matters.)

I am sure there is more I should mention about Clan management, but since I really need to get back to work, I'll leave you with this. Next time; Tributaries, Nomad succession and dynamic mercenaries!

 

[DarthJF]

I always failed the Mongol campaign in the third mission where you had to go through the Great Wall.

 

[Rags17]

Can hordes have regular, non-horde vassals? Republics can have feudal vassals and feudal rulers can have republic vassals. Tribes can be vassals and/or have non-tribal vassals too. I know tributaries are for next week but I assume those are regular independent realms.

Pretty sure the answer is "yes". The Huns were horse nomads and they subjugated most of the Germanics who would all be considered Tribal, the Mongols were horse nomads and they subjugated too many government types to mention, including Republics, empires, Kingdoms and (arguably) some theocracies.

I'm going to guess thought that there will be some VERY strong incentives to abandon your horsey ways once you score a jackpot and take out an established empire . . .

O_O. Does this mean Elephants can be used by non Indian cultures?

One of the first Dev Diaries revealed that a new mechanics will be to divide the map by regions for the purposes of events etc. This will stop (say) Tiger hunts in Hungary, but it should also mean any darned horse nomad that makes it to Bengal, Mali or Abyssinia should be able to recruit elephants.

Dynamic Mercenaries? The Lots of Drunk Lads with Swords Mercenary Band confirmed!

Horse Nomads "R" Us - no job too big or too small !

NB - We now accept PlunderPass !

But Clan Karling?

I want to get some friends together to play multiplayer, all as clan members of the same Scottish horse nomad group called Clann.

That way we we would be known as the Clan Clan of Clan Clann.

 

[DarthJF]

One of the first Dev Diaries revealed that a new mechanics will be to divide the map by regions for the purposes of events etc. This will stop (say) Tiger hunts in Hungary, but it should also mean any darned horse nomad that makes it to Bengal, Mali or Abyssinia should be able to recruit elephants.

You know what this is going to mean, right? India based Vikings raiding the shores of England with elephants.

 

[Zohtun]

This is a little out of place, but what's the quick-patch mean when it says Ibadi is now its own religion? What happened there?

 

[Rags17]

You know what this is going to mean, right? India based Vikings raiding the shores of England with elephants.

And why not ? Haven't you read any of the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle ? They mentioned the Viking Long-Pachyderms many times - with their full battle armour and Berserks mounted on howdahs.

Lindisfarne wasn't sacked, it was squashed.

 

[SaphireSeas]

I'm going to guess thought that there will be some VERY strong incentives to abandon your horsey ways once you score a jackpot and take out an established empire . . .

Not sure about that. Firstly you'll lose your Manpower mechanic which gives you lots of troops. Secondly the Mongols never abandoned their ways, So why should their be an incentive to abandon them?

 

[TheDungen]

Not sure about that. Firstly you'll lose your Manpower mechanic which gives you lots of troops. Secondly the Mongols never abandoned their ways, So why should their be an incentive to abandon them?

The ilkhanate did. And the mongol rulers of china.

 

[SaphireSeas]

The ilkhanate did. And the mongol rulers of china.

The Ilkhanate? Please can you give me something to verify that.
I know the Mongols did in China. What about Timur?
I am also concerned about the Golden Horde doing it.

 

[toroltao]

Chapter LVI of Polo's travelogues detail the way the Mongols fought, and at the end he specifically says their martial ability had deteriorated substantially since having "taken up the practices of Idolaters of the country, and have abandoned their own institutions, whilst those who have settled in the Levant have adopted the customs of the Saracens."

So ya I think that includes the Ilkhanate.

 

[pyrusmole]

It's very technical and hard to explain in the layman terms. Easiest way I guess would be to say nomads are not generated unless you have the expansion

Will this affect multiplayer? If I have the mod and another player does not will hordes still be generated?

 

[SaphireSeas]

Chapter LIV of Polo's travelogues detail the way the Mongols fought, and at the end he specifically says their martial ability had deteriorated substantially since having "taken up the practices of Idolaters of the country, and have abandoned their own institutions, whilst those who have settled in the Levant have adopted the customs of the Saracens."

Interesting. Thanks for your time. Now what about Timur?

Edit: If you didn't know "the Levant" should definately cover the western end of the Ilkhanate

 

[That one guy]

It all looks and sounds super fun though I am afraid we'll see the return of North Korea Mode

 

[Zohtun]

It all looks and sounds super fun though I am afraid we'll see the return of North Korea Mode

So what? If someone wants to take the penalties of NKM and hold everything in a way which is inefficient and against the spirit of the game, we can hardly deny them their decision, even if we think it's stupid.

The rest of us can play the game like we're supposed to.

 

[poketwo]

Tributaries!?! That means we FINALY GET PROPER REPRESENTATION OF GOLDEN HORDE RUSSIA!??!?! THIS IS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!! FOR SOME REASON?????

 

[NecroGangster]

It all looks and sounds super fun though I am afraid we'll see the return of North Korea Mode

What's the North Korea Mode?

 

[ngppgn]

What's the North Korea Mode?

It's the playstyle where you circunvent the feudal mechanic by holding all the land yourself, having all of your vassal imprisoned, or some variation of that. A few patches ago, it was more efficient in terms of min-maxing than the supposedly "right" playstyle of having a full feudal hierarchy in your realm

 

[Thure]

Will this affect multiplayer? If I have the mod and another player does not will hordes still be generated?

In multiplayer the game uses the DLCs of the host and not the local ones.

 

[NecroGangster]

It's the playstyle where you circunvent the feudal mechanic by holding all the land yourself, having all of your vassal imprisoned, or some variation of that. A few patches ago, it was more efficient in terms of min-maxing than the supposedly "right" playstyle of having a full feudal hierarchy in your realm

I see, thanks for clarifying.

I tried holding everything myself once, by after a couple hundred holdings it starts to lag. By the 1000th holding it would freeze for 1 or 2 minutes everytime I conquered something or created a new title.

 

[Alectron]

If manichaeism is still a Zoro's heresy and nomads are seemed to be powerful, doesn't it mean that Zoroastrianism will become a heresy soon enough?

 

[cybrxkhan]

If manichaeism is still a Zoro's heresy and nomads are seemed to be powerful, doesn't it mean that Zoroastrianism will become a heresy soon enough?

That's a good reason to turn Manicheism into it's own proper religion, whether as another branch of the Zoroastrian religious group or in a new religious group altogether. Manicheism is the only world religion that has gone extinct, and is really the only large religious group that's still treated as a heresy (per CKII's definition) in-game.

That said, not all or even a majority of the nomads were Manichean, of course (though certain nomad groups were, at certain times, such as the Uighurs before the 11th or 12th centuries before they shifted to Buddhism) given that the nomads followed a plethora of rleigions.