Hi again folks! It's a big day today with the release of the Common Sense expansion for EUIV! Naturally, we are releasing a patch for CKII in tandem, in order to keep the save game converter up-to-date.

Patch Notes here:

Spoiler

- Updated government calculation to be up to date with EU4 1.12
- Fixed the localisation issues on Mac and Linux with country names
- Ibadi is now its own main religion like it should be

NOTE: We are aware of an issue on Mac and Linux caused by EU4's recent engine upgrade, which broke EU4's ability to find the exported games from CK2. For now, you have to manually copy the exported save from eu4_export/mod to EU4's mod folder but this will be fixed ASAP by the EU4 team.

Now then, this time I thought I'd talk about the internal dynamics of the nomadic hordes. As I mentioned last time, Nomads use population and manpower rather than relying on levies and taxes from Holdings, so they tend to have a lot fewer normal vassals than other realms. To compensate for this, Nomad hordes rely on a variable number of member Clans instead. The Clans are similar to regular vassals in some respects, except that they also employ Manpower and Population (oh, and you are allowed to play as a vassal Clan too, of course), and each Clan has a special opinion called Clan Sentiment of the other Clans, separate from that of its chief. As a horde grows, it will be encouraged to increase the number of member Clans. Likewise, you can have too many Clans for the amount of available land.

Effective management of the Clans takes some effort due to their infighting and Sentiments. We have added a new screen to give you a proper overview of the situation. Red lines between the Clans indicate an ongoing "Blood Feud" and green lines a "Blood Oath". A Clan can only have one "blood brother" Clan, but many feuds. Feuds are started either by simple declaration, or by raiding one of the other Clans in the realm... Yes, even though you might all be serving same Khan, nothing stops you from raiding a fellow Clan's land! Blood Oaths are similar to marriage alliances; they last as long as both of the Clan Chiefs are alive, but they are only type of alliance that allows you to call another Clan to war in internal wars (and that includes the Khan!) Blood Feuds are much more persistent and can only be settled with a payment of blood money... or by the other Clan's extinction.

Another twist to the Oath and Feud status is that actions taken against one Clan will affect the Sentiment of its enemy or blood brother, as appropriate. For example, an oath-bound Clan will also become hostile to whomever is raiding you, and will dislike any clans you are in Feud with for as long as the Oath lasts. Feuding parties are allowed to freely declare outright wars against each other, fighting over the grazing lands in a single county.

Clans can be a bit tricky to manage, not just because of their own infighting but also because they don't follow any system of laws like the Feudal realms do; they are more about frankly expecting and demanding things from their Khan. If they view the Khan as weak and pathetic they are quite prone to attempt to have him replaced with another Clan chief (usually through membership in a special Faction.)

Apart from proposing Blood Oaths and declaring Feuds, the Khan also has access to a number of special actions against the other Clans. He can demand that they split in order to maintain balance within the tribe, or even absorb them; unless they refuse, of course! Clans are also free to adopt the religion of another Clan, should they like it better for some reason (steppe nomads are fairly open-minded about religious matters.)

I am sure there is more I should mention about Clan management, but since I really need to get back to work, I'll leave you with this. Next time; Tributaries, Nomad succession and dynamic mercenaries!

 

[cybrxkhan]

Would anyone care to explain the "Beware the Akhun, they are without honor" reference?

In Age of Empires II, there's a campaign that revolves around Genghis Khan and the Mongols. One of the more memorable lines of dialogue is when the Khan tells the player (and I paraphrase I think) "Beware the Khitan. They are without honor." It is one of the more well known lines from the game.

 

[TheDungen]

In Age of Empires II, there's a campaign that revolves around Genghis Khan and the Mongols. One of the more memorable lines of dialogue is when the Khan tells the player (and I paraphrase I think) "Beware the Khitan. They are without honor." It is one of the more well known lines from the game.

Oh... I don't remember that, the lines I remember from that game is "It's been twenty years since I rode with Atilla the Hun... and sometimes... I miss it" (Obviously atilla campaign) and "But I am an old man now what harm could I possible do" (Henry the lion in the barbarossa campaign) not to mention "La hire's sword isn't bloody enough!"

 

[Steel_atlas]

Would anyone care to explain the "Beware the Akhun, they are without honor" reference?


Also dynamic mercs sounds really awesome.

I believe its a refrence from Age of Empires, a Khan warns you to Beware the kara khitai.

Because you know they are with out honor and stuff.

 

[klopkr]

I would expect that the religions would still be locked, but they would be able to play nomads of allowed religions.

Well I'm not so sure. Groogy said the government is locked not the religion. But for Muslims, Jews, Pagans, and Indians it's the religion that's locked.

The only christian Nomads I could find were the Alans in 1066 until the Mongols. So either they'll let you play any nomad regardless of religion or only a tiny area above Georgia in half the start dates unless you own the other DLC.

I guess you could make a christian become a nomad but I think if it's the later there will definitely be a decent stink about needing to buy other DLC just to play Horse Lords content.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Well I'm not so sure. Groogy said the government is locked not the religion. But for Muslims, Jews, Pagans, and Indians it's the religion that's locked.

The only christian Nomads I could find were the Alans in 1066 until the Mongols. So either they'll let you play any nomad regardless of religion or only a tiny area above Georgia in half the start dates unless you own the other DLC.

I guess you could make a christian become a nomad but I think if it's the later there will definitely be a decent stink about needing to buy other DLC just to play Horse Lords content.

They should at least unlocked Tengri nomads. However, I suspect that you'll be able to play as Muslims as well since the Muslim mechanics will probably be tied to their government type instead of their religion. Only issue is that you won't be able to change your government type without the appropriate DLC.

 

[SaphireSeas]

Ow yeah I'm going to give you guys a bit of sneak peak of what is possible to do as I really want to do this myself.

Start up as a Turkish tribe north of the Caspian Sea, migrate through Persia into the Jungles of India. Establish a power base there by breeding a massive horde of Elephants, subjugate the subcontinent and then start burning everything to the West as you spread through it as a plague. Nothing shall be left standing as the Turkish Elephant Riders plow through everything, trampling the pitiful settled people trying to hide in their cities.

THE KINGS OF EURASIA SHALL TREMBLE AS A MILLION ELEPHANTS MARCH UPON THEM!

I'm beginning to believe you're a megalomaniac.

This is the mighty and magical Groogy! He will do as only Groogy does! Run From the Elephants of DOOM!!!

You can now fully expect this to be an acheivement.

 

[Sunspawn]

Where's Dev Diary 4?

 

[BFKelleher]

Where's Dev Diary 4?

It's around here somewhere.

 

[Sunspawn]

Wonder why there isn't a link in the stickied thread though?

 

[Teutonic_Thrash]

The only christian Nomads I could find were the Alans in 1066 until the Mongols

Mark Dickens has written a bit about Christianity among the nomads. Though off the top of my head I can't remember which characters/clans in-game should be Christian.

 

[SaphireSeas]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/weekly-dev-diary-4-horse-lords.859206/
Here it is. It has been unsticked now there is a new DD.
Or you could just go to the second page of threads in the Main CK2 forum

 

[klopkr]

Mark Dickens has written a bit about Christianity among the nomads. Though off the top of my head I can't remember which characters/clans in-game should be Christian.

Is that so? Which ones should be represented as playable christians that aren't already in the game?

They should at least unlocked Tengri nomads. However, I suspect that you'll be able to play as Muslims as well since the Muslim mechanics will probably be tied to their government type instead of their religion. Only issue is that you won't be able to change your government type without the appropriate DLC.

I never thought about it but unlocking Tengri and Zoroastrians/Manichean religions for owners of the DLC would make sense. They're part of the old gods DLC and tacked on added benefit so it wouldn't weird for both DLC to unlock them with Horse Lords also unlocking the nomad government type as a thing like Groogy mentioned.

 

[Teutonic_Thrash]

Is that so? Which ones should be represented as playable christians that aren't already in the game?

Some Uighurs and Karluks maybe?

 

[klopkr]

Some Uighurs and Karluks maybe?

Is that actual rulers or just courtiers though?

 

[DarthJF]

Presumably any Nomadic character will be playable regardless of religion, but non-Nomad Tengris, Muslims, Zoroastrians, Jews etc. won't be without proper dlcs.

 

[Flame444]

I've honestly never have been more excited for a DLC before. Each dev diary seems to get me more hype.

 

[Rubidium]

Presumably any Nomadic character will be playable regardless of religion, but non-Nomad Tengris, Muslims, Zoroastrians, Jews etc. won't be without proper dlcs.

Probably. Of course this leads to the possibility of a player starting a game as a nomad, clicking the decision to settle down, and immediately getting a game over because of wrong religion. Hopefully there will be a warning, at least.

If we're super-lucky, they'll also prevent the player from ever inheriting the Ecumenical Patriarch, and getting the same problem.

 

[Federalist girl]

I kind of thinking the nomad government would work great for the ERE

Think about it, no landed vassals -- and the clans represent the frontier military generals who can try to claim the throne or declare rival empires.

Obviously the empty holdings everywhere part doesn't work at all, but you know... the clan part is great.

Groogy, any way we can use the more flexible government-types to give a normal government the whole clan thing?

 

[vyshan]

here is the comment about the Without honor quote; go to about 2:23

 

[toroltao]

here is the comment about the Without honor quote; go to about 2:23

Wow AoE2 still looks better than 3.