[WtWSMS] Suggestions/Ideas

[Qumar]

Concerning Dal Riata, Fergus Mor & Dynasty History

Would kindly like to suggest the addition of Loarn mac Erc's son, Muiredach from whom which the MacBeth, MacLeans and others were descended, with or without his/their own Dynasty (Mac Loarn or Cenel Loarn). It is also not certain in which order Loarn & Fergus ruled; it may have been that Loarn lived longer than his brother and held the kingdom title for 24 years after Fergus Mors death. Which would clarify as to why some scholars reported Loarn being descended from Fergus and not as his brother due to the assumption that the title passed from Father to Son and not Brother to Brother due to Tanistry being the norm in the region but an alien concept to historians from back in the day.

Fergus Mor himself also seems a little lackluster given his role and place in history; arguably he is one of the few upon which some of the legends of King Arthur were derived from. Also, concerning Fergus' name; Mor should really be implemented as a nickname for those of Gaelic culture as it's pretty much a localized equivalent of 'the Great'; alternatively it may have been an adaption of the Jewish Exilarch title of Mar. Either way, it's not a name that should be given at birth, which tends to happen occasionally with the current set up.

Also, the father of the two listed as Erc; should arguably be Muiredach 'mac Earca' mac Eochaid Muinremuir; the child of Nissiya Earca (Princess Esther) & Eochaid Muinremuir

The genealogy for this region is a pain in the ass to wrap one's head around in reality; as due to the practice of marrying apparent Jewish "royalty" the Patronymics tend to become confused as some would take the mothers name instead leading some, if not most, historians to believe they were male.

Finally, some kind of events revolving around the Stone of Destiny would be icing on the freaking cake.

 

[loup99]

Thanks for all of these very detailed suggestions!

Not sure if this has been suggested before, but it would be nice if there were more Indian melting pots for other cultures. With the Migration CB it is possible for a tribe or to end up in India. Suggestions: Indo-Slavic (in the Indian group because the Indians were more numerous), Indo-Greek.

Well, noted. It won't be added soon, but in the longterm it might be a potential addition.

I have a suggestion, for the appearance of Kutrigurs , Utigurs and Hunno-bulgars (wich represent the Onogurs, i think), the Kutrigurs and Utigurs, who at the starting date are Bulgars holding duchys with the same name, can become Kutrigur and Utigur culture when each duchy obtains de-jure vassals, via de-jure shift (to represent how at the beginning they were just differently named Bulgars, and then became separate but similar peoples).

For the Hunno-Bulgars it's a little more complicated, if a Hun has his capital on a Bulgar province and is NOT either the vassal of the Hunnic emperor or the emperor himself, he should quite quickly become a hunno-bulgar (and in turn the hunno-bulgar would become just a Bulgar via the same reasoning and by being ruled by anyone not either a Hun or hunno-bulgar) (this event should have a death date around the 600s or so), but if the Hun is the emperor of the Hunnic empire or his vassal, the conversion should take more time, but could be speed up if he has a Bulgar wife (or a husband if female). If the holder of the Hunnic empire is a hunno-bulgar himself, the empire should be localized to Patria Onoguria (of course the event for Huns becoming hunno-bulgar within the hunic empire gets deactivated his it has de-jure vassals).

P.S. Sorry for my bad English I'm very tired.

Noted (I did some corrections to your text for personal comprehension).

One more thing about the Kemetics.
Is it possible to make the Pharaoh a religion leader, like the Pontifex Maximus and the Caliph instead of a King title?
It is meant to be the emissary of the gods after all.

Maybe "Nesew" can be used for kings?
This dictionary I found can help in general:
http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Post/399761

(Also like I suggested in the other thread, give the Kemetics the Aztec map art, it'd fit them a lot. And those without Sunset Invasion wont be affected by it)

Noted.

Sorry for the formatting and any spelling error but it's late and I'm tired.

I know you are yet to finish Scandinavia, but so you do it as well as you can I'll share some of the things I know/have found here, in case you'll find them useful.

First of as I told earlier you can't show Trøndelag as a sami area. It had a much larger population and left more traces in the roman iron age than western Norway did.¹ The area is flat and suited for farming, and is packed with burial mounds (bronze age - ca ad 800) and hill fortresses (no later than 600). Things that you find in areas with powerful people and enough farming to support building and maintaining them, and a need for them.

In Norway the coast up to Troms and the central areas of the inland were populated in the period. In a way the map would be more or less unchanged from vanilla when it comes to Norse/sami. The idea that the Farming and Nomadic population was separated by a horizontal line is wrong. And likely nomad does not always mean sami, and farmer not always norse. Before Christianization there was a lot of contact and coexisting.

I hope you will change the borders. The vanilla one is not at all accurate or even realistic.
Here's a quick drawing of how I understand the situation after some reading:
View attachment 121470

Same number of regions as vanilla (Though Trøndelag should really be split a bit. A lot of people there, and internal conflict). I have put some of the hill fortresses from the period that I found on the map as well.

Most of what's marked as "sami majority" is still sparsely populated to this day. But areas like Østerdalen is notable though. Sami precense there is controversial but it seems likely to me from what I have read. Not marked are areas where sami people exist, but not as much. They travel around a lot, and coexist with farmers. Places like on the Fosen peninsula still have sami names and such.

Jämtland I am not sure about. There was a hill-fortress on Frösön and signs of farming around Storsjön. Most of the region seem to have been quite deserted though. Possibly best represented by Norse ruler ruling a Sami population? Swedish wikipedia mentions it being part of a petty kingdom in Norrland.

Some sources
¹ https://snl.no/Jernalderen_i_Norge
http://forskning.no/historie/2008/04/samisk-jernalder-i-osterdalen

Noted.

Would kindly like to suggest the addition of Loarn mac Erc's son, Muiredach from whom which the MacBeth, MacLeans and others were descended, with or without his/their own Dynasty (Mac Loarn or Cenel Loarn). It is also not certain in which order Loarn & Fergus ruled; it may have been that Loarn lived longer than his brother and held the kingdom title for 24 years after Fergus Mors death. Which would clarify as to why some scholars reported Loarn being descended from Fergus and not as his brother due to the assumption that the title passed from Father to Son and not Brother to Brother due to Tanistry being the norm in the region but an alien concept to historians from back in the day.

Fergus Mor himself also seems a little lackluster given his role and place in history; arguably he is one of the few upon which some of the legends of King Arthur were derived from. Also, concerning Fergus' name; Mor should really be implemented as a nickname for those of Gaelic culture as it's pretty much a localized equivalent of 'the Great'; alternatively it may have been an adaption of the Jewish Exilarch title of Mar. Either way, it's not a name that should be given at birth, which tends to happen occasionally with the current set up.

Also, the father of the two listed as Erc; should arguably be Muiredach 'mac Earca' mac Eochaid Muinremuir; the child of Nissiya Earca (Princess Esther) & Eochaid Muinremuir

The genealogy for this region is a pain in the ass to wrap one's head around in reality; as due to the practice of marrying apparent Jewish "royalty" the Patronymics tend to become confused as some would take the mothers name instead leading some, if not most, historians to believe they were male.

Finally, some kind of events revolving around the Stone of Destiny would be icing on the freaking cake.

Noted.

 

[Jaa_RoS88]

Hi
Yours mod looks fantastic. Great epic work!!!
But I have little question. Are you going to add more vassals to the existing realms in the future? I know that is very little information about the characters in this era but You can add some ahistorical characters.
This can give more capabilities in the game and make game harder at the beginning.

 

[omega20056]

How are you going to handle the Roman navies? The western navy more or less disappeared after Majorian failed to retake Carthage. The Vandals are known to have raided the coast of Italy, and I believe they eventually took Sicily, Sardinia, Corsica and the Balearic islands. The eastern navy remained a force to be reckoned with until 1204, thanks in part to the introduction of Greek Fire in the mid 600's. There were permanent fleets of probably 50-80 ships each based at Constantinople, Alexandria and Ravenna at all times, with smaller flotillas based at Carthage, Sicily, Tripoli, Cherson and Septem. The entire navy probably numbered 300 ships at its height under Justinian, declining to around 150 ships after the loss of the east.

 

[Pressburger]

I took the liberty of making a different and possibly more accurate flag for the Kingdom of Rheged. It is taken from the reported coat of arms of Urien Rheged (whose dynasty implementing would be a nice addition), a 6th century king of Rheged.
I believe it is a better choice than a random lion-toting coat of arms.
It fits quite good on the character page. The ravens are a bit chopped off by the fancy CoA borders on the political map though.

Screen: http://i.imgur.com/ZR9LNAs.png
File: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B286Ik2m8jxkX1BGZHlyY2RjSXM/view?usp=sharing
And here's a Wiki article about Urien and some minor genealogy of his: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urien

 

[Mr Repwoc]

I don't know what you want to do with this but it seems there was a lot of immigration from Ireland to South West Wales between 350-400 (possibly of Roman foederati) which eventually became Brythonic again. I think there was enough migration to warrant the culture there being Gaelic but ruled by a Briton by the late 5th century.

 

[mrmastro]

You should nerf Odoacer, he has too many soldiers and Theodoric barely wins in my games. And I would suggest a decisions for the Romans (Eastern/Western/Unified) to make your capital Rome. And a second decisions to rebuild the greeatnes of the city. And I would like to ask is there a decision to restore the Western Empire as a Hellenic ?

 

[I_Jedi]

You should nerf Odoacer, he has too many soldiers and Theodoric barely wins in my games. And I would suggest a decisions for the Romans (Eastern/Western/Unified) to make your capital Rome. And a second decisions to rebuild the greeatnes of the city. And I would like to ask is there a decision to restore the Western Empire as a Hellenic ?

Whoever owns Italy at the time seems to be OP for some reason.

 

[omega20056]

Whoever owns Italy at the time seems to be OP for some reason.

It's probably too highly developed militarily. There weren't many native troops left in the west after Julius Nepos took over. The western army ought to be made up mainly of foederati levies, with a small cavalry retinue or mercenary unit of a few thousand men to represent the Scholae Palatinae. The total number of troops in the western army probably shouldn't exceed 20,000, 75% of which should be under Odacer (Orestes was only able to raise 4,000 men to oppose Odacer, who had at least twice that).

 

[PseudoCatfish]

It's probably too highly developed militarily. There weren't many native troops left in the west after Nepos took over. The western army ought to be made up mainly of foederati levies, with a small cavalry retinue or mercenary unit of a few thousand men to represent the Scholae Palatina. The total number of troops in the western army probably shouldn't exceed 20,000.

Sadly, CK2 doesn't model depopulation well... at all. I recommended tuning down levies so that it would take at least 20 years for levies to replenish, to force the Roman Empires to use mercenaries and a potential foederati system and to allow events like the rise of Islam to happen against a weakened Roman or Persian Empire, but for whatever reason the nerf that was applied hasn't really succeeded in that (I'm not sure if the nerf is even there due to him having deleted one of the beta builds... which is why old features like the legions system and certain culture groupings are only being re-implemented now. )

 

[omega20056]

Sadly, CK2 doesn't model depopulation well... at all. I recommended tuning down levies so that it would take at least 20 years for levies to replenish, to force the Roman Empires to use mercenaries and a potential foederati system and to allow events like the rise of Islam to happen against a weakened Roman or Persian Empire, but for whatever reason the nerf that was applied hasn't really succeeded in that (I'm not sure if the nerf is even there due to him having deleted one of the beta builds... which is why old features like the legions system and certain culture groupings are only being re-implemented now. )

It could be done through a new set of laws covering the army. When I wanted to represent the decline of Byzantium in the 1300's I introduced a "Theme System" law which had three options, Inactive Themes (-50% from tax and levies), Degraded Themes (Does nothing) and Active Themes (+20 to tax and levies). I gave the Inactive law to Byzantium from 1185 to 1204, and again from 1282 to 1453. It weakened Byzantium to the degree it was IRL during those periods, and a requirement of a skill level of 8 in the stewardship and martial skills stopped players from just changing it back when they started. I'd recommend going with a new law similar to this "Army Organisation" or something similar. I'd give it three options, Low Organisation (-50% from tax and levies), Medium Organisation (Does nothing) and High Organisation (+20% to tax and levies). The western empire and post-Sassanid Wars/pre-Arab Wars Byzantium would begin with Low, Byzantium would have Medium from 480 to the loss of the east to the Sassanids, and High from the time of Constans II to Constantine X. The "High" option would represent the themes and be restricted unless an emperor reformed the government/army by a special decision (Which would only be available to high martial emperors).

 

[Ufnal]

Sadly, CK2 doesn't model depopulation well... at all. I recommended tuning down levies so that it would take at least 20 years for levies to replenish, to force the Roman Empires to use mercenaries and a potential foederati system and to allow events like the rise of Islam to happen against a weakened Roman or Persian Empire, but for whatever reason the nerf that was applied hasn't really succeeded in that (I'm not sure if the nerf is even there due to him having deleted one of the beta builds... which is why old features like the legions system and certain culture groupings are only being re-implemented now. )

I'm not sure how fast are the levy reinforcement rates in the mod, but making them start with depleted levies - or even with levies 1/4 filled, but also with halved garrisons to ensure the levies don't get much reinforcement too fast - sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[Kanaric]

Yes, it is, but do you have any specific suggestions on names?

I'm just curious on where the Imalcus and titles like that came from to start. Tried looking that up but couldn't find anything.

 

[mrstevehazzard]

Shouldn't Kemetiks have multiple wives instead of concubines? I know the info about the pharaohs is out of the game's time frame, but I read about the pharaohs having several 'consorts' or 'wives' as opposed to 'concubines'. It seems like they should be able to marry close kin as well, Ahmose I married his sister, for instance.

 

[Wulkos]

When looking to the gothic wars bookmark, I noticed for the greatest Sassanid, Khosro I Anushirvan, particulary bad stats... 1 in learning! An aberation for this philosopher-emperor! So, I sugest to give him very good stats.

For exemple:
Diplomacy: 15
Martial: 12
Stewarship: 21
Intrigue: 11
Learning: 20
Education: Mastermind Theologian/Midas Touched
Traits: Administrator/Scholar; Just; Quick; Diligent; Sympathy for Indians; Sympathy for Christendom; Sympathy for Pagans

 

[Kanaric]

I suggest that germanic pagans sea raiding should be nerfed to be the same as other pagans and add a 2nd germanic religion "norse" that appears by event near the viking age that allows those people to do this kind of raiding.

 

[Mr Repwoc]

I suggest that germanic pagans sea raiding should be nerfed to be the same as other pagans and add a 2nd germanic religion "norse" that appears by event near the viking age that allows those people to do this kind of raiding.

The early Anglo-Saxon pirates were probably as effective if not more effective raiders than the Vikings. This is evident by the amount of effort the Romans did to try and keep them at bay (building province wide "Saxon" Sea Forts etc) as well as the accounts of Gildas and other writers at the time. They periodically laid waste to the coasts of Britannia.

 

[Kanaric]

The early Anglo-Saxon pirates were probably as effective if not more effective raiders than the Vikings. This is evident by the amount of effort the Romans did to try and keep them at bay (building province wide "Saxon" Sea Forts etc) as well as the accounts of Gildas and other writers at the time. They periodically laid waste to the coasts of Britannia.

Early ANGLO SAXON pirates. Not all the german cultures united in swarming every AI plus the player with raids.

It's ridiculous being in the eastern mediterranean and having multiple stacks of 2000+ raiders at once on that land from every civilization of northern europe. It's gamey. Western Mediterranean is even worse.

Have you not played and seen this behavior by the AI? It destroys AI nations.

Also keep in mind there is no ship combat in this game.

I stand solidly by my suggestion. A couple of small anglo saxon settlements not being able to raid across the map at the start of the game is not outweighed by all germanic nations being able to do apocalypse level civilization destroying raids on every medium size and smaller nation.

 

[mrstevehazzard]

Early ANGLO SAXON pirates. Not all the german cultures united in swarming every AI plus the player with raids.

It's ridiculous being in the eastern mediterranean and having multiple stacks of 2000+ raiders at once on that land from every civilization of northern europe. It's gamey. Western Mediterranean is even worse.

Have you not played and seen this behavior by the AI? It destroys AI nations.

Also keep in mind there is no ship combat in this game.

I stand solidly by my suggestion.

I second this. I'm watching Odoacer right now being bombarded by about half a dozen raiders. Would be nice if it was toned down some.

 

[Kanaric]

I second this. I'm watching Odoacer right now being bombarded by about half a dozen raiders. Would be nice if it was toned down some.

Ya it's even worse considering the AI doesn't know how to deal with all those raiders. I won wars based on the AI having to fight off a half a dozen or more stacks of raiders ignoring me while I creep to 100%.