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Oh, Doux Maximos is dead? Such shame, such shame.
By the way, with no connection whatsoever to this unfourtunate event, my Senator is throwing a party for everyone in the Salamis castle :p
 
Oh, Doux Maximos is dead? Such shame, such shame.
By the way, with no connection whatsoever to this unfourtunate event, my Senator is throwing a party for everyone in the Salamis castle :p

Yeah all the grumpy old men wise aristoi of the Blue Demes can talk about the good old times and how much a waste their sons are :p Count me in !
 
[size=+1]IMPORTANT[/size]

Since your applications (both new characters for old Houses and new Houses) are coming slower than expected, I made a small correction in the Third Senate Session schedule to ensure that everyone has enough time to send me his character/House before the Session starts:


[size=+1]***[/size]
[size=+1]SCHEDULE (WARSAW TIME)[/size]
Opening of the Session8:00 PM 4th January (Sunday)
DEBATE (6 DAYS)9:00 PM 4th January (Sunday)
Opening of the voting9:00 PM 10th January (Saturday)
VOTING (1 DAY)10:00 PM 10th January (Saturday)
Closing of the Session10:00 PM 11th January (Sunday)
[size=+1]***[/size]
 
So i was half-joking when I suggested trials, but it looks like people are interested. So I've drawn up a (rough) outline of an idea of how they ought to work. Vague, I know.

There are two ways a trial can start:

1. The Emperor accuses a Senator of a crime that is not always an automatic death penalty (things like attempted murder of the Emperor in plain sight, or a Senator standing up and proclaiming his allegiance to the Dark Gods would not be tried, just hanged)

2. The Senate indicts a Senator for a crime they suspect of a crime. Note this is not a trial, the vote is one whether the Senators think they are guilty, but whether there is enough doubt to formally go over the evidence in a trial. The indictment requires only a simple majority of the Senators, and at least one Faction Leader in support of the indictment. A faction leader will propose the indictment.

if we do trials, the Senators ought to be encouraged to sneak things in every now and then about their crimes, and if we detect them and have enough evidence, they can be tried. Currently I'm the only one who has really started this process, although I think one person was homosexual at one point, but didn't further it too far. This is in addition to things like events that come up, like in the last update. If that happened again, they would be tried on a more theoretical basis, and the argument would be about what punishment should be meted out.

So there would be two types of trials:

1: Character Trials: These will be based on the evidence that we dig up from a person's posts, letters, anything in character. In this situation, the accused is aware that they will be caught, although I doubt they'd play like that in character.

2. Event Trials: These would be based on events that come up concerning Senators committing a crime. This trial is not a trial in the common sense, but a sentencing hearing.

The trials will, of course, be influenced by personal bias, hate between houses, the faction the person is from, and the meddling from the Imperial Court.

A Draft format for a Character Trial:

Indictments:

Indictments are proposed as provisions during normal sessions. A Faction Leader has to propose an indictment, and it must pass by a simple majority.

Indictments must include:

The supposed crime of the indicted
At least one piece of evidence
The name of the indicted and his Faction.

An example:

I, (Senator Name) , Senator and Leader of the (Faction) Demes, propose an Indictment of Senator (Senator Name) for the crime of (Crime).

(Evidence)

If the Indictment passes, the Trial will be held at a special session of the Senate, or as an extension of an existing one. The Emperor can obviously choose to veto the provision. If the Senator accused is set to die by the next session, he will not, similar to Faction Leaders for the upcoming session.

The Trial:

The Faction Leader who made the accusation is the the head of the Prosecution. The accused will be his own lawyer. The job of the prosecutor is to investigate the accused's posts and letters and comments made in character. Other Senators can submit evidence to the Prosecutor. At the end of the trial, the Prosecutor will post a complete collection of evidence. The Prosecutor will also recommend a sentence. This is important because too harsh a sentence and the Senators may not vote in favor. The President of the Senate presides over the Senate, and if the Senate finds the accused guilty, will Sentence him. The President will normally sentence him to what the Prosecution asked for, but he can change the sentence. He cannot not give the accused a Sentence though.

Unlike a modern trial, the jury (The rest of the Senate) is allowed to weigh in and submit evidence, alibis, desperate pleadings for innocence, etcetera. The trial will have a length of 3 days, at the end of which there will be a voting period of 2 days. In order to convict the accused, there must be a 2/3rds majority.

Format for an event trial:

The Emperor asks the Senate to sentence the criminal among them. He is guilty, there is no doubt about that.

This is a shorter trial. The Emperor proposes a Sentence, and for a period of 2 days, the Senate will debate whether this is the correct sentence. Faction leaders may propose amended sentences. Since this is a sentencing trial, the proposal with the most votes wins. The voting period is one day.

Obviously everything can be changed, from procedure, to time length, to number of crimes.

I sent this to Czoklet a few mins ago, but I thought it would be good to hear from the other Senators too. Any comments are appreciated.
 
Obviously everything can be changed, from procedure, to time length, to number of crimes.

I sent this to Czoklet a few mins ago, but I thought it would be good to hear from the other Senators too. Any comments are appreciated.
And rightly so! I like the general idea (though it would have to be changed a little bit) but I'm most interested in comments of other Senators, since you will be the ones to participate in a trial - in most cases as accused, of course :p
 
What changes would you suggest?
 
Currently I'm the only one who has really started this process, although I think one person was homosexual at one point, but didn't further it too far.
Yep, my Senator is homosexual suffering rumours about homosexuality. This does make me wonder- is homosexuality considered a crime in the Imperium, and what's the punishment (death, flogging, dungeon etc)?
I like your idea. It will add things to do and interactivity.
 
I hope that this IAAR doesn't lose it's way like all others like it from the complexity.
 
I hope that this IAAR doesn't lose it's way like all others like it from the complexity.

I agree. I am also following "Sonderweg oder Anderweg" and since the moment duels were accepted it has gone worse in my opinion. If we can choose I prefer not to allow trials or similar things that make it too much complex and make even larger the space between updates.
 
Trials are meant to be relatively easy to put together, in that they won't require a bunch of editing and polishing on the part of Czoklet. I agree about the clutter, that's the reason I don't read many IAAR's, they get too convoluted. But trials would be something that fills in the large gaps between major updates, or at least gives more content to the updates that we have.

TIM2 is structured differently from most IAARs in that it is more rigidly defined by Czoklet's playing choices and opinion on how things ought to go. By playing characters that are more subordinate, and not the most powerful people, there's a different power dynamic.

One of the biggest things TIM2 has going for it is that by using an alt-history setup, it destroys the meta-gaming that can be pervasive in IAARs. I find this especially true of Viccy 2 AARs, because there's a certain way things tend to go in Victoria 2, and certain techs and strategies that are far superior for certain countries. In addition, there's very little lore to them.

TIM2 has TIM behind it, which really richens the whole experience, because we're actually playing for something. The crazy world that TIM2 is set in completely changes how it is played. We don't know what's out there! In Vic 2 IAARs, you know the scramble for Africa will happen, you know the formation of nation-states will happen, etc. In TIM2, we know jack shit. And that's awesome.

In addition, I think it has to be said that Czoklet is really amazing. Another problem I tend to have with IAARs is that there's not enough concrete stuff. By giving us updated maps, geopolitical situations, and the events all nicely edited, the world of TIM2 is, ironically, much more concrete than other IAARs. It also allows the complexity of it to be easily digested.

So I think it's important to make sure TIM2 doesn't lose it's head, but I don't think it would hurt to have more content, especially between chapters.

Re: Parrotguy: I seriously doubt the Imperium would tolerate homosexuality in any way or form. I mean, the Brits were still chemically castrating homosexuals into the 1950's in our world, I have no doubt worse things would befall an outed gay man in this world. Harsh truths, but then again, we did just affirm slavery last session. Harsh realities for a harsh world, just remember to be in character when going on an anti-gay tirade!
 
Well trials could be interesting if they turn well. :)
It would make us more careful about our words, especially if the Whites go on religious trials every once in a while :p
 
Trials sound amazing.
I've already picked out a few sins for my next character... I'm going to do a proper Casanova Baratheon frat boy sooner or later, I mean Nick was sort of one at the beginning but I didn't play it as much as I should have.:p
A religious zealot would also be fun.
 
Great update!
I'm tempted to candidate for the Senate but I fear studies won't let me enough time for the IAAR... Maybe next year!

Yep, my Senator is homosexual suffering rumours about homosexuality. This does make me wonder- is homosexuality considered a crime in the Imperium, and what's the punishment (death, flogging, dungeon etc)?
I like your idea. It will add things to do and interactivity.

I remember that in one of the CK2 update severe anti-gay laws were adopted, because I thought it was quite "sad" (but totally in universe, especially given the "demographic" pressure) that such legislation was adopted because once it is it takes centuries to depenalize (yay, I know in this universe they have others problems than sexual minorities rights, but still. Intersectionality and all of that :p Against tyranny, slavery, xenoi and patriarchal oppression!).

Here it is:

Holy Synod: Ecumenical Council of Hierusalem said:
(...)
God does not have mercy for them, for it is said (Revelation 21:8): „But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” This is God's justice. The secular authority however cannot remain silent in the face of such travesty which is to reject God's love (…) this Holy Synod advises they shall be punished accordingly by burning. Let the flames similar of these of eternal torment for which there are destined cleanse their souls, for it is said (Psalm 10:15): „Break the arm of the wicked and evildoer; call his wickedness to account till you find none.”


Edictum I (changes in the Ekloge) said:
(...)
8. Those who are guilty whether actively or passively of committing unnatural offences shall be punished by burning. If he who commits the offence passively, is found to be under twelve years old, he shall be pardoned on the ground of youthful ignorance of the offence committed.
9. Those guilty of abominable crime of man coupling like a woman shall be castrated and will become slaves working for the good of the Imperium as eunuchs.


EDIT: I have to mention that such an (increasingly) deep universe plays a big role on how awesome this AAR is :)
 
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Re: Parrotguy: I seriously doubt the Imperium would tolerate homosexuality in any way or form. I mean, the Brits were still chemically castrating homosexuals into the 1950's in our world, I have no doubt worse things would befall an outed gay man in this world. Harsh truths, but then again, we did just affirm slavery last session. Harsh realities for a harsh world, just remember to be in character when going on an anti-gay tirade!
Yeah, I know that it's a crime- what I was asking is the punishment.
I remember that in one of the CK2 update severe anti-gay laws were adopted, because I thought it was quite "sad" (but totally in universe, especially given the "demographic" pressure) that such legislation was adopted because once it is it takes centuries to depenalize (yay, I know in this universe they have others problems than sexual minorities rights, but still. Intersectionality and all of that :p Against tyranny, slavery, xenoi and patriarchal oppression!).

Here it is:







EDIT: I have to mention that such an (increasingly) deep universe plays a big role on how awesome this AAR is :)
Yeah, that's what I was looking for- a deep universe indeed.
Well, as the punishment is harsh it seems like my Senator got some things to fear- too bad we didn't have trials before (now my Senator is almost dead), I might have let him say a little more about the homosexuality issue for an interesting trial and maby an interesting end to my poor character :p
 
Sorry, I'm gonna drop out of this temporarily :(
I assume "temporarily" means that you don't want your House removed from Album Senatorium? If so, no problem Andre Massena - there are still vacant seats in the Senate, so you may take break as long as necessary :)
 
I'm currently writing my speech and a question has arisen- how will you distribute the influence this time?
I mean, if the Senate advices that the expedition to the Eastern Ocean will be financed by the Imperium, surely this is a victory to the Blue demes- however, if the Senate passes a decision for a White national focus and idea group this will be a (much) bigger victory for the White demes.
Oh, and also- at the time of the Senate session, what year is it? I searched and didn't found.
 
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Well since I'm planning too, I just wanted to say that the apparent heir of the house Raoul, Leontios and his wife Margrethe Hvide were killed in an ambush while visiting a minor holding near Adrianople. No one knows who did it although the Athanatoi investigated the matter. But their son Alexandros who was in Konstantinopolis during their murder is still alive and well. Now the heir is Maximos married to the daughter of Senator Salamis.

(I know I should have waited the Session but since it concerns also house Hvide I decided to post it ;) )

And about influence, I think the Blues might be able to get quite an influence after the session. I mean we get to choose an idea and this event was made for us.
Also if a Blue wants to take the role mentionned in the events he should say so now before others take the ideas as well and we don't end up saying : "I went in Sinai ! No it was me ! No me !" :D