[ MEP ] Suggestions Thread for the Middle-Earth Project mod

[Lonhaldar]

Have you guys already thought something about Elves who own one of the Three Rings while Sauron holds the One and voluntarily serve him?

Just like Maeglin in the Silmarillion swears fealty to Morgoth in exchange of the realm of Gondolin and Idril Celebrimbral (Elrond's grandmother xD), an Elf from the Third Age could swear/be forced into allegiance to Sauron and in exchange be given one of the Three and a realm on top.

Improbable, I know, but it seems to me just the kind of thing Sauron would want to pull off (since we already know he'd fancy some elven minions...).

Interesting idea, i add this on my to-do list !
I suppose that if a character got some bad traits (like cruel, zealous, envious, ...), an event can pop up with an offer from Sauron, sounds good!
For the holders themselves (Cirdan/Gandalf - Elrond - Galadriel) i'm not sure, they're "good" characters and i can't see them accept an offer from Sauron, even from a crown or something like this?

 

[CtrlAltDe1337]

First off, this is my favorite mod of all time. Great work (too bad the last patch kinda broke some things :/ )

Some suggestions I have:
War of the Ring scenario:
Mordor always declares an invasion of the Royal Demesne of Gondor and takes it within the first few minutes of the game, instead of attacking E. Osgilliath like they are supposed to. Minas Tirith falls immediately. Maybe consider scripting an attack on E. Osgilliath to prevent this.


Add a few more female characters with the Blood of Numenor trait. The AI has great difficulty in maintaining a bloodline. If possible, give trait-holders a preference for marrying other characters who have the Blood of Numenor trait.

I'm not sure how well the Ent attack on Isengard works. Maybe have the ents declare war on Isengard directly? Also, some kind of event chain for Saruman if he loses to go to the Shire would be pretty sweet xD

Maybe give the Black Numenorians in the south (below Umbar) a few Blood of Numenor traits, or at least drops of numenor (? the watered down version).
Also the Black Numenorians could have some kind of "Subjugate lesser men" CB to take over lands of other non-Numenorian men.





Also in the future, what about a bookmark right after the Fall of Numenor and establishment of Arnor and Gondor, and a Last Alliance bookmark. That would be pretty epic.

 

[Moridin997]

I suppose that if a character got some bad traits (like cruel, zealous, envious, ...), an event can pop up with an offer from Sauron, sounds good!
For the holders themselves (Cirdan/Gandalf - Elrond - Galadriel) i'm not sure, they're "good" characters and i can't see them accept an offer from Sauron, even from a crown or something like this?

Indeed, for the current holders it should be pretty much impossible.

However, should Sauron recover their rings, there should be some elves (though still a very small minority) with enough 'evil' traits to consider accepting an offer from Sauron. Plus, Sauron would prioritize the most powerful elves (Noldor > Sindar > Silvan > Avari).

As an alternative, should Sauron capture an elf, he might break, depending on his traits. Having 'Craven' (combined with whatever 'evil' traits the prisoner has) should increase the chance of that happening.

Finally, the most unlikely scenario: an evil Elf, with tonnes of evil traits, might willing turn into the Shadow (not necessarily swearing to Sauron), kill one of the current holders and take their ring. This shouldn't happen in most games (say, just 1 out of 10) but, with some cool events surrounding it (evil secrets discovered in some ruins, whispered lies spread by Sauron or the Nazgul, suffering a traumatic attack from a dark creature, etc), it would be an awesome experience and, I think, not necessarily contradicting the lore.

 

[Lonhaldar]

First off, this is my favorite mod of all time. Great work (too bad the last patch kinda broke some things :/ )

Some suggestions I have:
War of the Ring scenario:
Mordor always declares an invasion of the Royal Demesne of Gondor and takes it within the first few minutes of the game, instead of attacking E. Osgilliath like they are supposed to. Minas Tirith falls immediately. Maybe consider scripting an attack on E. Osgilliath to prevent this.


Add a few more female characters with the Blood of Numenor trait. The AI has great difficulty in maintaining a bloodline. If possible, give trait-holders a preference for marrying other characters who have the Blood of Numenor trait.

I'm not sure how well the Ent attack on Isengard works. Maybe have the ents declare war on Isengard directly? Also, some kind of event chain for Saruman if he loses to go to the Shire would be pretty sweet xD

Maybe give the Black Numenorians in the south (below Umbar) a few Blood of Numenor traits, or at least drops of numenor (? the watered down version).
Also the Black Numenorians could have some kind of "Subjugate lesser men" CB to take over lands of other non-Numenorian men.

Thanks for these suggestions!
The casus belli for the black numenoreans is a good idea, i'll work on it!
The invasion of the royal demesne is a bug, we'll fix it soon hopefully.
For the other things, we're already working on them.
Thanks for your support !

 

[fanoI]

Do not forget that Saruman itself was an Aesir (it is right? I've read only the Simalliron and seen the movies, I've to find the courage to read that beast of book one day ) so it is unlikely that a good guy as Gandalf of Galadriel could decide that it is better to side with Sauron to a better good... an evident self excuse but...

(In the movie the poor Frodo offers the ring to Galadriel and well... see this)

Another suggestion idea what could Aragon with the ring? Admittedly I've checked in the files but it seems nothing particular happens... maybe he could, in the end, get his Kingdoms but as a vassal of Sauron?

 

[Lonhaldar]

Do not forget that Saruman itself was an Aesir (it is right? I've read only the Simalliron and seen the movies, I've to find the courage to read that beast of book one day ) so it is unlikely that a good guy as Gandalf of Galadriel could decide that it is better to side with Sauron to a better good... an evident self excuse but...

(In the movie the poor Frodo offers the ring to Galadriel and well... see this)

Another suggestion idea what could Aragon with the ring? Admittedly I've checked in the files but it seems nothing particular happens... maybe he could, in the end, get his Kingdoms but as a vassal of Sauron?

Yeah, Saruman was an Ainur, from the same group that Sauron by the way (at first, a servant of Aulë). What's your suggestion here by the way? if Galadriel take the ring during the event chain, she can become an "evil" character, trying to make something good, but she'll finally try to conquer all the lands around here.

For now, there's nothing if Aragorn take the Ring, i can't see him become a vassal of Sauron with the Ring, Sauron should take it from him and slain him i think. I believe that he can only become a powerful evil character, with a chance to become mad i suppose, what do you think?

 

[fanoI]

Yeah, Saruman was an Ainur, from the same group that Sauron by the way (at first, a servant of Aulë). What's your suggestion here by the way? if Galadriel take the ring during the event chain, she can become an "evil" character, trying to make something good, but she'll finally try to conquer all the lands around here.

Yes she should become a female version of Sauron: "all shall love her... in despair"
You could think to give a special titular Empire title something as "Queen of Night and Darkness" and imagine a giant war between her and Sauron to decide who is the more evil and then destroy the word... or in the while probably :rofl:

For now, there's nothing if Aragorn take the Ring, i can't see him become a vassal of Sauron with the Ring, Sauron should take it from him and slain him i think. I believe that he can only become a powerful evil character, with a chance to become mad i suppose, what do you think?

Yes it is what it happened when I've taken it from Frodo :happy:
Probably should be a high chance to be killed but in some cases he should become a vassal of Sauron in exchange for Gondor probably... the Dark Lord would use him as a puppet using the ring but it could be more easy to control - and corrupt - human character with him.

What do you think?
(Let it go that Gondor is an Empire and so cannot be vassal of Mordor, you could create an evil version of it as a Kingdom level title).

Another thing as a good character I could re-create the Kingdom of Mordor... it fell a little strange to be the King of Mordor or it should change name or it should not be created by "good" characters.

 

[Dead William]

Is there an event chain where Boromir gets the ring? (or even worse, where Bilbo dies young and Otho Sackville-Baggins gets it?)

You might consider a bookmark for the Quest for the Lonely Mountain. Much wild land, yes, but a great deal of tension with the Battles of the Five Armies and Dul Guldur.

And by extension, maybe the Dwarves stop Smaug from taking the Mountain and history changes. (A lot less death an destruction, an earlier, more powerful push against Moria. A lot is possible)


Are the Haradrim based on the Muslim and African nations, cultrue wise? And the Corsairs of Umbar in the Norse/Old Gods sense?

A wonderful mod, I just wish I could go back to the right patch and play it properly.

Thanks, DW

 

[KingJerkera]

Question are you going to give the drawf's magic rings? Also how come in the fall of Arnor bookmark there redhorn pass is controlled by the Dwarf emperor and erebor is a province with a Dwarven King at the begining? Is there a going to be a special unit for the dwarfs? Why are there not many goblins and Orks? Where is the ettenmoors mentioned in the hobbit?

 

[Lonhaldar]

Some questions, i'll answer one by one

Is there an event chain where Boromir gets the ring? (or even worse, where Bilbo dies young and Otho Sackville-Baggins gets it?)

You might consider a bookmark for the Quest for the Lonely Mountain. Much wild land, yes, but a great deal of tension with the Battles of the Five Armies and Dul Guldur.

And by extension, maybe the Dwarves stop Smaug from taking the Mountain and history changes. (A lot less death an destruction, an earlier, more powerful push against Moria. A lot is possible)


Are the Haradrim based on the Muslim and African nations, cultrue wise? And the Corsairs of Umbar in the Norse/Old Gods sense?

A wonderful mod, I just wish I could go back to the right patch and play it properly.

Thanks, DW

1/ Yeah, there's an event chain where Boromir gets the Ring, or Aragorn, or Galadriel. In Rivendell, they also can choose to hide the ring in one of the kingdom (only if a player make this decision, needs to be powerful enough).
2/ Yes, maybe in the future, we didn't worked on it for now. New bookmarks needs a lot of works, and we'll make new ones little by little
3/ Graphically, Haradrim are based on a mix of indian/muslim styles. Corsairs of Umbar are currently mostly a mix of Black Numenorean/Haradrim characters, but we're adding a new culture there.
Thanks for your support !

Question are you going to give the drawf's magic rings? Also how come in the fall of Arnor bookmark there redhorn pass is controlled by the Dwarf emperor and erebor is a province with a Dwarven King at the begining? Is there a going to be a special unit for the dwarfs? Why are there not many goblins and Orks? Where is the ettenmoors mentioned in the hobbit?

4/ Yeah, the dwarven rings, and some other stuff like this will come in the next update
5/ Erebor should be wilderness at this time, we'll fix that, thanks
6/ Not for now, but maybe in a near future we'll add special units for each cultures.
7/ Well, The Orcs aren't in huge kingdoms, they hides in the misty mountains and in Gundabad, and most of the troops are in Mordor and Isengard.You've got already a lot of orcs characters in Mordor, and we'll maybe add more provinces in MM and Gundabad to help them to be stronger.
8/ Ettenmoors are in the rudhaur de jure kingdom, north-west of Rivendell !

 

[ngppgn]

Yeah, Saruman was an Ainur, from the same group that Sauron by the way (at first, a servant of Aulë). What's your suggestion here by the way? if Galadriel take the ring during the event chain, she can become an "evil" character, trying to make something good, but she'll finally try to conquer all the lands around here.

For now, there's nothing if Aragorn take the Ring, i can't see him become a vassal of Sauron with the Ring, Sauron should take it from him and slain him i think. I believe that he can only become a powerful evil character, with a chance to become mad i suppose, what do you think?

Wasn't Sauron a Maia, as opposed to Melkor/Morgoth, who was indeed the first of the Ainur/Valar (sort of like Lucifer, I suppose). I got from my far-in-time read of the Silmarilion that the mages were some different kind of beings, too, lesser to both Valar and Maiar, something by the name of I... something, I don't remember.

Anyhow, are the plans to, as Sauron (or Saruman, or any other powerful evil character) add the feature to turn imprisoned elves into orcs? It should be possible now, with the new set_graphical_culture effect

 

[Lonhaldar]

Wasn't Sauron a Maia, as opposed to Melkor/Morgoth, who was indeed the first of the Ainur/Valar (sort of like Lucifer, I suppose). I got from my far-in-time read of the Silmarilion that the mages were some different kind of beings, too, lesser to both Valar and Maiar, something by the name of I... something, I don't remember.

Anyhow, are the plans to, as Sauron (or Saruman, or any other powerful evil character) add the feature to turn imprisoned elves into orcs? It should be possible now, with the new set_graphical_culture effect

Yeah, Sauron is a Maia, like the Wizards (members of the Order of the Istari). Normally, Gandalf, Saruman or Radagast SHOULD be as powerful as Sauron, but they loose some powers when they were sent in Middle-Earth.
Valar and Maiar are part of the Ainur group, the Valar are more powerful, when the Maiar usually serves them. For exemple, Sauron was a servant of Aulë (as Saruman) before he was corrupted by Melkor. Radagast was a servant of Yavanna, and Gandalf, if my memory is good, was near to Lorien, but was sent by Manwë.

For your question, the answer is quite simple for now: no
Only Melkor had enough power to corrupt the elves into orcs (as far as i know), i don't think that Sauron with or without his ring, and Saruman are able to do it... But well, it could be a fun stuff for a First Age submod ^^

 

[ngppgn]

Ok then, thanks for the aclaration, I had got the impresion that Ainur=Valar, but as you say, I was wrong.

Regarding the other topic, what happen then with the Uruk-hai? I mean, it would be fun, that, if we as evil powerful character cannot create new orcs from scrath, at least could create new "breeds" so to speak, or orc sub-races of whatever you can. Although I can see that it would be dificult for that to became a meaningful mechanic, after all.

Another little thing, that I thought of sugesting a while back, but I thinck didn't in the end: is there a palantir trait? It would make sense that it gave demesne size, since it literally allows to oversee faraway lands. At least, when held by Sauron, or when held by another character once once Sauron no longer exists.

 

[Lonhaldar]

Ok then, thanks for the aclaration, I had got the impresion that Ainur=Valar, but as you say, I was wrong.

Regarding the other topic, what happen then with the Uruk-hai? I mean, it would be fun, that, if we as evil powerful character cannot create new orcs from scrath, at least could create new "breeds" so to speak, or orc sub-races of whatever you can. Although I can see that it would be dificult for that to became a meaningful mechanic, after all.

Another little thing, that I thought of sugesting a while back, but I thinck didn't in the end: is there a palantir trait? It would make sense that it gave demesne size, since it literally allows to oversee faraway lands. At least, when held by Sauron, or when held by another character once once Sauron no longer exists.

For the Palantiri, i reworked completely this, so you'll have now one different trait for each palantir, and added some new mechanics with them. I dunno if i can add a bonus of demesne size for the holder of one of them, but that's a good idea, will look at it (i think by the way that's triggered by stewardship skills of the character).

The difficulty to make "new" orcs sub-races is that we needs to code several new cultures for them, or maybe just some traits... But it'll be something quite limited, players won't be allowed to "create" really, but just give some bonuses. It could be done, but i don't think it's really an interesting feature for now. I'll put this idea in a corner of my brain, and will continue to think about it by the way

Thanks for your suggestions

 

[KingJerkera]

Thank you for answering my questions. One thing that I think that would be good is, if you can, to add a way to textually explain whats going down with each race in game. Also I fingered out a sneaky way get dwarfs out to the wilderness by fabricating a claim on the county. I don't know if that's the way you would like it done or if that's cheating. A Second suggestion is that there should be some nearby goblin fiefs to the dwarf holds in the south in the mountains so that the dwarf's of the misty mountains can have something to do and worry about before waking up the nasty Baulrog. Could you also fix the Angmar situation? Because currently it just swallows the neighboring tribes to the west then picks fights with Lindon and defends itself from Gundabar. Maybe make them allies?

 

[Lonhaldar]

Thank you for answering my questions. One thing that I think that would be good is, if you can, to add a way to textually explain whats going down with each race in game. Also I fingered out a sneaky way get dwarfs out to the wilderness by fabricating a claim on the county. I don't know if that's the way you would like it done or if that's cheating. A Second suggestion is that there should be some nearby goblin fiefs to the dwarf holds in the south in the mountains so that the dwarf's of the misty mountains can have something to do and worry about before waking up the nasty Baulrog. Could you also fix the Angmar situation? Because currently it just swallows the neighboring tribes to the west then picks fights with Lindon and defends itself from Gundabar. Maybe make them allies?

What do you mean by a textual explain of the races? A narrative event at beginning with some hints on what to do? Should be easy to do, but there's basically no limits ^^
We'll add more specific casus belli for some races i think. Dwarves deserves to have casus belli at least on all the mountains not holded by them!
I'll look at what we can do for adding more challenges to the dwarves by the way, we're again adding more and more flavour, so it'll be fix little by little i think.
And for Angmar, i'm looking at it too, but well... we're few, and there's so much to be done

 

[ngppgn]

For the Palantiri, i reworked completely this, so you'll have now one different trait for each palantir, and added some new mechanics with them. I dunno if i can add a bonus of demesne size for the holder of one of them, but that's a good idea, will look at it (i think by the way that's triggered by stewardship skills of the character).

The difficulty to make "new" orcs sub-races is that we needs to code several new cultures for them, or maybe just some traits... But it'll be something quite limited, players won't be allowed to "create" really, but just give some bonuses. It could be done, but i don't think it's really an interesting feature for now. I'll put this idea in a corner of my brain, and will continue to think about it by the way

Thanks for your suggestions

If you want to give demesne limits bonuses it can be done without increasing stewardship thanks to Captain Gars work. the modifier is demesne_limit_modifier = x where x is the integer aditive bonus of demesne added.

With the orc thing you have the entire reason, it just popped into my mind, so I dropped it here, just in case

 

[Lonhaldar]

If you want to give demesne limits bonuses it can be done without increasing stewardship thanks to Captain Gars work. the modifier is demesne_limit_modifier = x where x is the integer aditive bonus of demesne added.

With the orc thing you have the entire reason, it just popped into my mind, so I dropped it here, just in case

Oh yeah, i forgot this new feature, so i'll add this, it's a good idea, and a good way to improve the palantiri mechanics!
Thanks again, and don't hesitate to post more suggestions if you have some

 

[KingJerkera]

What do you mean by a textual explain of the races? A narrative event at beginning with some hints on what to do? Should be easy to do, but there's basically no limits ^^
We'll add more specific casus belli for some races i think. Dwarves deserves to have casus belli at least on all the mountains not holded by them!
I'll look at what we can do for adding more challenges to the dwarves by the way, we're again adding more and more flavour, so it'll be fix little by little i think.
And for Angmar, i'm looking at it too, but well... we're few, and there's so much to be done

What I was saying was that if there is a way to describe what races have what design and strategies. Like the dwarf's don't have a settle in wilderness casi belli or why certain races have certain bonuses like the elves in the forest do. Just so that someone whose coming cold to the game to have an idea of who has what limits and what they can do.

That would be excellent for the dwarf's to have a casi belli on all non-dwarf mountain holdings however my concern is that there is a lack of mountain holdings in the misty mountains and that the eastern dwarf's seem to have very small dwellings my argument is that there should be some addition goblin held mountain provinces along the ridge. That way the goblins can have a powerful army like they do in the battle of five armies and that they can raid the dwarf's without worrying too much about the supply mechanic that was added in.

I understand that you are few. I am most patient and i'm merely giving some suggestion just to keep in mind in the short term. Otherwise Angmar's a mess due to the AI wanting provinces so if there is some way to make the Orks in Gundabar ally with the Witch-King instead of fighting him that would be huge. And stop them from killing all the little tribes in the west before destroying the dunedain kingdoms.

 

[ngppgn]

What I was saying was that if there is a way to describe what races have what design and strategies. Like the dwarf's don't have a settle in wilderness casi belli or why certain races have certain bonuses like the elves in the forest do. Just so that someone whose coming cold to the game to have an idea of who has what limits and what they can do.

Maybe it can be added in the religion description, in the same fashion vanilla describe their features (e.g. the norse being able to raid but not to proselitise, etc.) it wold be both satisfy the request and be consistent with vanilla, since religion = race in the mod