When the World Stopped Making Sense [ A 480 Migrational Period Mod]

[Zusk]

We´re talking about an upstart religion among the backwater (sorry) tribes of Arabia here. It should only be in very rare and LUCKY cases that it manages to unify the penninsula, much less defeat the two major powers of the world and become a world religion. It should not happen often

What if we added several 'alternate' invasions such as a West African invasion, a early Turkic invasion from Turkestan and even a major slavic power forming a 'Slavic Empire' of sorts to conquer Europe? This way the map could change but it wouldn't always be Islam that does the changing

I gave this suggestion before, If we are limiting Islam this much we need to have something else to effect Europe from the outside besides the Mongols

Also, that statement makes forming Islam and making it as it is historically as likely as the AI reforming Rome and taking back its historical borders in vanilla. Something that -actually- happened in real life shoule be fairly more likely then the restoration of Rome or a Tengri Holy Roman Empire

 

[Zusk]

When I mean a alternative to Islam, imagine something like this mod from a while back

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?647772-MOD-Zulu-Invasion

Maybe even a bit turned down to the levels of Islams OP'ness, for example, only getting 20k event troops.

 

[loup99]

Unfortunately it appears that no such event exists. The split only occurs when you move the date at the selection screen. I'll have to figure some other way to get the separate Caliphs to appear. Maybe if I have the Shia one appear and then have the religion conversion become a choice for every character. That would turn the entire Arabian Peninsula into a hotbath of rebellions, which would help to curb their power and help prevent them from conquering their way to Italy hopefully.

They should conquer a lot of land (if they end up as they historically did) and be near Gaul or Italy. The shiites were in the beginning very weak and they should not shatter Islam like you described it. I'm sorry but I'm just not the same opinion of you in so many ways on how to model Islam that it will be hard for us two to meet in the middle. Remember that the only thing that stopped Islam from getting at the gates of Rome was a strong frankish leader , Charles Martel at the battle of Poitiers.

I gave this suggestion before, If we are limiting Islam this much we need to have something else to effect Europe from the outside besides the Mongols

Also, that statement makes forming Islam and making it as it is historically as likely as the AI reforming Rome and taking back its historical borders in vanilla. Something that -actually- happened in real life shoule be fairly more likely then the restoration of Rome or a Tengri Holy Roman Empire

That "something" should be another new religion that rises and conquers a lot of land. But first Islam should be completed with all of the possible heresies and outcomes. It should not be super-limited, just be with many different possible outcomes. In most (90%) of the games Mohammed should appear but maybe only in (25%) of the games it should end up as historically we know it theologically (those values are only approimative). It should become powerful but not as we know it and only under certain conditions.

 

[Zusk]

Mainly because of the highly different outlooks and opinions that people have on the Rise of the Islam I think I will lay off on writing the event series until either a actual consensus can be reached or Enlil makes a decision on the matter for how he would like to see them incorporated.

I will get back to work on the Slavic Migration event series. JGBeagle, if you need help writing the event just ask for me and I can give you anything I have so far if you want it.

 

[JGBeagle]

They should conquer a lot of land (if they end up as they historically did) and be near Gaul or Italy. The shiites were in the beginning very weak and they should not shatter Islam like you described it. I'm sorry but I'm just not the same opinion of you in so many ways on how to model Islam that it will be hard for us two to meet in the middle. Remember that the only thing that stopped Islam from getting at the gates of Rome was a strong frankish leader , Charles Martel at the battle of Poitiers.

Well I still have to find some way to historically simulate the Islamic schism and your ideas and facts you've brought up have helped a lot. I'll save the Sunni/Shia clusterf-ck for an alternate event. It sounds too fun not to code.

 

[loup99]

Well I still have to find some way to historically simulate the Islamic schism and your ideas and facts you've brought up have helped a lot. I'll save the Sunni/Shia clusterf-ck for an alternate event. It sounds too fun not to code.

The thing is that, me, and the french community wants the Rise of Islam to be highly dynamic and variated as possible while you seem to want it to be very historical and hardcoded to be a few amounts of outcomes. If you want to, I could when you are done with the bae system take a look at adding more heresies, religions and dynamism to it.

 

[JGBeagle]

The thing is that, me, and the french community wants the Rise of Islam to be highly dynamic and variated as possible while you seem to want it to be very historical and hardcoded to be a few amounts of outcomes. If you want to, I could when you are done with the bae system take a look at adding more heresies, religions and dynamism to it.

Nope, not at all my intention. I want a dynamic Rise of Islam as much as you do, but like you said I need a base to work off of. Like what Enlil has been doing I'm making what I know (sorta) first so I can deal with what I don't know with less work on my plate.

 

[loup99]

Nope, not at all my intention. I want a dynamic Rise of Islam as much as you do, but like you said I need a base to work off of. Like what Enlil has been doing I'm making what I know (sorta) first so I can deal with what I don't know with less work on my plate.

Ok, in that case I think that there is no problem. If you run into more issues or problems feel free to share them here or PM me.

 

[Enlil]

I would like to weigh in on the Islam discussion. I see both sides of the arguments, and I have to say I'd like it to be as dynamic as possible (within reason), and have the chances it historically had in real life. In most of my games, the rough 20k troops Islam got was enough for the Caliphate to conquer Africa, and at times just Southern Arabia. The reason in the previous playthrough Islam lost was an odd one. Normally, Axum will get overcome with rebellions and foreign wars and East Africa will in the end look a lot like it does in 867. The reason more strangeness happened was the Sassanids did not invade the Lakhmids and Sarmatian Heretics overthrew Himyar. This weakness led to the rise of a Lakhmid Caliphate, which quickly lost due to its massive Nestorian population, combined with a bizarre Arian Axum. Even if Islam never rises, many of these nations will fall. The instability of the Vandalic kingdom was enough in the playthrough for it to be conquered by rebels, and the eventual foundation of the Danish States. Visigothica will be incredibly strong in the beginning, but after 200 years of struggling with an alien population, it will fail, and the Moors will invade Spain. Often times, Clovis' conversion to Chalcedonian would prove devestating as previous Arian and Germanic allies quickly start a war to place a less Chalcedonian Frank on the throne. So in conclusion, I'd have to say make it historic, because nations with bad leadership don't need Islam to topple them.

 

[Enlil]

Also the new icons:

In order, Chalcedonian, Cult of the Most High God, Hepthalism, and Insular

 

[loup99]

But, this still leaves the possibilty of having it as an heresy or a different theological outcome, right? And if Mohammed gets accepted at home (in Mecca) he should not go on invasion of the whole world. So you want it as dynamic as possible with an historical possibilty (also my opinion)? In that case I think that Zusk can continue to work on it as he seems to have the same opinion.

 

[Enlil]

I have just finished Moesia Superior, Dalmatia, and Pannonia, so progress is going great!

 

[Enlil]

I also split the County of Constantinople into 2 provinces.

 

[Mr Repwoc]

Can we get some good ideas for religious flavor events?

Arian, Priscillianism, Cult of the Most High God, ect?

664 Synod of Whitby when the Celtic (or insular Church) changed to be more aligned with Rome and became Catholic

 

[BSggg]

I don't want to start a discussion about "the destruction of Ancient knowledge by the rise of Christianity" and other moderns Atheist religious dogmas, so I'll just ask what's the significance of Pompeii and Troy for restoration of Hellenic religon? Pompeii was a resort town, very important for us, because we can see ideally preserved Roman town, but completely unimportant for Romans. Troy, well, people new about Troy from Iliad and myths. When I was in London, I visited Baker Street, 22b, Sherlock Holmes' house, Troy would be pretty much the same for Hellen.
Restoration of Olimpic Games or Eleuthinian Mysteries would be a lot more suitable.

You are right. It was only an idea. But the Olympic Games seme good. Maybe a decision to re-open them if you are Hellenic and controll the Peloponesse (because thats were the old Games took place according to historians)

 

[Enlil]

Kingdom of Dacia and Dacia Carpentes is now finished.

 

[Raineh Daze]

I also split the County of Constantinople into 2 provinces.

Really? Why is that?

664 Synod of Whitby when the Celtic (or insular Church) changed to be more aligned with Rome and became Catholic

Or it could stay distinct. Need both options, especially if the main church has low MA.

 

[BSggg]

Is it possibil for Hellenisism to have Heresys? If im right they are Reformed so can they have them? If yes maybe a Cult around the Pagan "God" Emperors of the old Roman Empire, a Cult about the ancient founders of Rome (Romulus and Remus) or even a rebirth of Sol as an important god?

 

[Mr Repwoc]

Yep, or even if Roman Christianity has reached England. The two churches would have to have reached each other

 

[Zusk]

I will upload everything I have so far for JGBeagle to incorporate into his work so far.

So far I have;

The proper spawning event for Muhammad, including the proper triggers and chances for him not to spawn at all if no Bedouin Arabic culture province exists. Muhammad has a higher chance of spawning in a Arabic Pagan Mecca. This event also fires global flags for the proper heresy setting in event 2.

A second event denotes his vision from Gabriel, this event can only fire if Muhammad is at least age 30 and has a higher chance the more learning he has. The event changes him to Islam and gives him "The Prophet" trait, giving a very large relation boost for Muslims, a Learning and Martial boost and a massive AI ambition boost.

Islam will also become a heresy if the province Muhammad was born in was not Pagan. For example, if it was Nicene then Islam will become a heresy of Nicene. If it is Jain then it will become a heresy of Jainism.

The third event deals with setting the "Sayyid" trait to descendants of characters with "The Prophet" trait, which should be Muhhamad.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/2l19z530p2g3m64/Zusk_Islam_Events_v1.rar