I like the new mini-map. It accentuates the... inhabitable land. Maybe "accentuate" isn't the right word for the thing...
Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise Developer Diary 7: Colonial Diplomacy
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I'm really looking forward to this expansion. It looks like it will provide a lot more historical flavour when playing colonial nations.
I suppose this will likely be covered in a future Developer Diary, however I'm curious at this point as to how the revolutionary war mechanic will play out with the new colonial nations. Say, for example, England has been happily colonising the east coast of North America for a century or two, and the Thirteen Colonies has grown into a major presence on the continent. If diplomatic relations between the colonies and the mother country were to deteriorate sufficiently, or circumstances were otherwise right for a revolutionary war event to occur, would the entirety of the Thirteen Colonies switch allegiance from England all at once (similar to a European vassal state seeking to free itself from its oppressive overlord)? If this were the case, it would seem that the mother country would effectively be kicked out of the New World (or at least that colonial region) within a relatively short space of time (if not instantly, depending on whether or not England had its own military presence in the colonies prior to the revolution). The worst case scenario would be where England had only colonised provinces in one region in North America, which would all form part of the Thirteen Colonies. Stripped of the entirety of its colonial tariffs and without any safe fort or port in North America, it would seem that the mother country would have a pretty difficult time regaining any foothold on the new continent if it did not already have a substantial military presence on the ground (I presume this would be vital).
I'm therefore wondering whether there may be a gameplay mechanic to simulate a loyalist element in revolutionary conflicts. I've had limited experience of revolutionary wars in the current EUIV build, however hopefully someone on the forum can set me straight if my thoughts are pretty far off the mark on this topic. After all, it's only hypothetical at this stage!
I suppose this will likely be covered in a future Developer Diary, however I'm curious at this point as to how the revolutionary war mechanic will play out with the new colonial nations. Say, for example, England has been happily colonising the east coast of North America for a century or two, and the Thirteen Colonies has grown into a major presence on the continent. If diplomatic relations between the colonies and the mother country were to deteriorate sufficiently, or circumstances were otherwise right for a revolutionary war event to occur, would the entirety of the Thirteen Colonies switch allegiance from England all at once (similar to a European vassal state seeking to free itself from its oppressive overlord)? If this were the case, it would seem that the mother country would effectively be kicked out of the New World (or at least that colonial region) within a relatively short space of time (if not instantly, depending on whether or not England had its own military presence in the colonies prior to the revolution). The worst case scenario would be where England had only colonised provinces in one region in North America, which would all form part of the Thirteen Colonies. Stripped of the entirety of its colonial tariffs and without any safe fort or port in North America, it would seem that the mother country would have a pretty difficult time regaining any foothold on the new continent if it did not already have a substantial military presence on the ground (I presume this would be vital).
I'm therefore wondering whether there may be a gameplay mechanic to simulate a loyalist element in revolutionary conflicts. I've had limited experience of revolutionary wars in the current EUIV build, however hopefully someone on the forum can set me straight if my thoughts are pretty far off the mark on this topic. After all, it's only hypothetical at this stage!
13 colonies have weird flag, france+england, is it possible for colonial nation to have two overlords ?
No. It is funny to see two rivals that their colonial nations have half of their overlord flag and half of the rival's one! :happy: This is actually based upon regions and each region has half part of the colonial state's flag. (It will be later USA, Brazil, UPCA, etc).
But I have a qustion: After a colonial state breaks apart, does it possible they will have monarchy govt type? (historically, UPCA, Brazil and Haiti were).
EDIT: Understood it is more Victoria's timeline where you may change govt types without problems.
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Will you be able to influence your colony?
Dismiss its governor forcing a re-election/generation/etc?, Change their ideas or invest in their provinces?
Dismiss its governor forcing a re-election/generation/etc?, Change their ideas or invest in their provinces?
They did try to have direct control over many important stuff, like gold and silver and also having trade monopoly. Suddenly it isn´t as important if people avoid taxes if, well, they HAVE to buy goods from you. That also means improved Mercantilism options if possible.
It's confirmed that you cannot invest in their provinces (you can't build buildings for them, for example.)
The rest is unknown, but I have a feeling that you won't be able to actually do much with Colonial Nations. I doubt we'll be able to do any of the things you mention; all of which I agree would be great. (Though maybe some of these could be added via mods.)
So far it seems that Colonial Nations are like vassals are currently, except:
- They pass 50% of Tariff and Trade Power, and not just Tax;
- They can DOW on their own, but only other Colonial Nations, or native nations - the overlord will not be called in automatically;
- They will be encouraged to colonise on their own (some current vassals already colonise, but seems Colonial Nations will do so more.)
I'm personally not that confident that we'll be able to do much with Colonial Nations, besides watch them and intercede in their wars now and then. My feeling is that the new system is mostly meant just to be more historic and "flavoured", and interesting to watch, rather than representing an increase in strategic opportunities and gameplay choices - indeed it might represent a decrease in strategic opportunities.
At least based on what we know so far, which is certainly not the full picture.
That's a shame. But maybe more will come in future patches. And we could still get pleasantly surprised by the "other benefits" Besuchov mentioned.
And I may be doing a disservice to the strategic opportunities if, for example, it turns out that it's difficult but rewarding to engineer wars between the Colonials and other Colonials and Natives, with the objective of expanding the size of the Colonial and thus increase the income it provides. I'm hoping that the overlord can't simply DOW the other Colonials/Natives and then annex and get a new Colonial Nation immediately, but rather has to go through some more convoluted/multi-step process in order to enable its Colonial Nation(s) to DOW and then integrate the enemies themselves. That might be interesting.
Another factor is that they might be intended more as a multi-player feature. It could well be much more interesting and provide more varied gameplay to have some players be overlords, and others be Colonial Nations. In that scenario, there is no lack of ability to "control" the Colonial Nations, because the overlord-Colonial relationship can entail whatever the players want it to.
In other words, you're hoping that the historic conquest of Quebec will be hard coded to be impossible.
Conquest of Canada or New France not of Quebec. And please yes, no way in hell France could lose half a continent in just one war, right?
No idea, I know nothing about it
Obviously I don't want that specifically. Maybe the way I want the game to play would lead to that? I don't know.Note though that I want nothing "hard coded" - hard coding is the opposite of dynamic, strategic gameplay. Hard-coding, where it exists in the game, is usually done for historical plausibility (or the semblance of it), not against it.
I don't care about historical aspects at all, only gameplay and strategy. I want anything that: improves the strategic opportunities; risk/reward factorisation; options for player interaction and control; things for player to do, and reasons to do them; makes the game more challenging; makes the game more interesting and varied, and fun! I have no problem at all with a mechanic having no basis whatsoever in reality, so long as it improves the game in one of those ways.
I totally understand that other players do care about historical plausibility, and I expect them to put forward their requests for changes to improve the game in their preferred way, as I do for my preferred way. Their preferences will often directly conflict with my preferences, and vice versa. It's then up to Paradox to weigh up the opposing factors and come up with the best solution, one that leads to the game being fun and interesting and strategic, while having enough plausibility to satisfy the history fans
From my perspective they've so far done a sterling job. In the case of CoP it seems that this might go somewhat the other way, being more about the historical plausibility than it is the gameplay, and that would therefore be a shame for me (if true.) But that's how it goes, and I have no complaints - and anyway I might well be wrong in my assessment. There's no question that I'll be buying CoP in all scenarios!
The first post said that colonial nations can only ally native nations. What of another of my colonial nations?
For example i have 2 colonial nations in north america: 1 in Canada and one in the southeastern part of North America. They are separated by a french colonial nation based in New York.
-Cant my colonies ally against the french? at least a defensive alliance could be good.
-Could i as an owerlord make my other colonial nation attack the french colony if they are at war with my other colonial nation?
-If not what happens when my two colonial nation get into war separatly with the french and im called in by one? Than the other shouldnt be able to call me or only after the other war ended. And than me joining would break truce and hit me badly. Btw this could easily be exploited by players (attacking 2 of the AIs colonial nations at the same time)
For example i have 2 colonial nations in north america: 1 in Canada and one in the southeastern part of North America. They are separated by a french colonial nation based in New York.
-Cant my colonies ally against the french? at least a defensive alliance could be good.
-Could i as an owerlord make my other colonial nation attack the french colony if they are at war with my other colonial nation?
-If not what happens when my two colonial nation get into war separatly with the french and im called in by one? Than the other shouldnt be able to call me or only after the other war ended. And than me joining would break truce and hit me badly. Btw this could easily be exploited by players (attacking 2 of the AIs colonial nations at the same time)
See this quote from the first post:
So your Colonial Nations can't ally against the French, nor do they need to. If France attacks any of your Colonial Nations, then you the Overlord is called in automatically. And your Colonial will not be able to DOW the French themselves. Colonials can only DOW other Colonials, and the Native nations - they then proceed on their own, but the Overlord can intercede via Enforce Peace if he chooses.
So there's no scenario in which any Colonial Nation can get into war against the French, unless the French DOW one of those Colonials in which case you the Overlord are called in straight away. My guess is that when that happens, all the other Colonials are also called in - like vassals are today - and everyone fights the French.
Unless by 'the French' you meant the French Colonial Nation? In which case yes your Colonial could DOW the French Colonial, or vice versa. Then France could Enforce Peace to join that war, and you could Enforce Peace to join the war too.
Note you never get 'called in' when Colonials are fighting, you have to choose to Enforce Peace to join the war.
In the scenario where two Colonials both DOW the same Colony, and you Enforce Peace and then want to Enforce Peace in the other war as well - well that's not been explicitly stated, but I'm sure it won't cause a Stab hit / Break Truce for the reason you mention.
I meant french colonial nation. The situation would be two colonial wars at the same time - and i can only intervene in one.
The exploit would be with an european nation dowing two of the AIs colonial nations on the same day - before he could react. Than he can only intervene in one of the two. Is this possible?
The exploit would be with an european nation dowing two of the AIs colonial nations on the same day - before he could react. Than he can only intervene in one of the two. Is this possible?
But the European nation can't DOW two of the AIs colonial nations on the same day. Remember, if a Colonial Nation is DOW'd by a normal nation, the Overlord is called in immediately.
The time that the Overlord must use Enforce Peace is where one Colonial Nation DOWs another Colonial Nation.
So, I am Great Britain, I have Colonial Nation British 13 Colonies. France has two Colonial Nations: French Canada and French Brazil.
If GBR DOWs French Canada, GBR is immediately fighting French Canada AND France. We don't know if GBR would also be fighting French Brazil in that scenario. If he DOWs French Brazil, he is immediately fighting French Brazil AND France. We don't know if he would also be fighting French Canada in that scenario.
Either way, he cannot avoid fighting France immediately. The AI does not have to react, the Overlord is called in immediately.
Now, let's say that British 13 Colonies DOWs French Canada. Britain is not called in automatically. If I want to join in later, I can Enforce Peace with French Canada and join that war. France can also Enforce Peace with British 13 Colonies to join. If both France and GBR do that, then France and GBR are now in a war together.
Now let's say British 13 Colonies DOWs French Canada and French Brazil on same day. If France wants to join this war, he needs to Enforce Peace with British 13 Colonies. So I guess the question is, does France have to choose between joining the French Canada war or the French Brazil war? Or will Enforce Peace once with British 13 Colonies join both wars? If he joins both wars, there is no issue. If he joins just one war, then I think that is also not an issue - because then if he wants to join the other war, he can just Enforce Peace again and choose the other war, because he does not yet have a Truce with British 13 Colonies (because truce comes at end of war.)
So final question - British 13 Colonies DOWs French Canada, and France Enforces Peace. They fight and eventually the war ends. Now France has a Truce with British 13 Colonies. What happens if British 13 Colonies now DOWs French Brazil? That would seem to imply that France could not Enforce Peace again to protect French Brazil against British 13 Colonies.
I don't know what happens in that last scenario. But I am sure they will cover it somehow. Maybe they will remove the restriction on using Enforce Peace with a truce, when you Enforce Peace on a Colonial Nation. Or maybe they will change it so that Enforce Peace on a Colonial Nation does not add a Truce for the Overlord.
I just did a quick test in 1.3. I got a truce against Venice, who were fighting with Netherlands against Holland. Then I Enforced Peace on Netherlands, on behalf of Holland. This put me in the war on the side of Holland, fighting Netherlands and Venice. It let me do this even though I had a Truce with Venice.
What it did not let me do is Enforce Peace with Netherlands when I had a truce with Netherlands specifically. That is the scenario you are describing. But my test proved that that's just a restriction specifically on the Enforce Peace UI button, and the game itself won't apply a Truce-Break stab-hit if you end up fighting an Enforce Peace war against a nation that you have a truce with.
So my guess is that in 1.4/CoP, they will change that UI restriction on Enforce Peace to prevent any exploit.
The issue is not quite as you described, because a European power can't DOW a Colonial Nation without automatically calling in the Overlord. An issue only occurs when one Colonial Nation DOWs another. And if Colonial Nation GBR-1 DOWs Colonial Nations FRA-2 and FRA-3 on the same day, there is no issue; France just Enforce Peaces on both, with no Truce.
The only issue comes if France had a Truce from an earlier, finished war.
Does that cover all your points?
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If colonial nations are brought into their Overlord's wars like regular vassals, then I imagine it won't be much of an issue, if it all.
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140114T00&p0=239&msg=CONQUEST+OF+PARADISE
Not long now.
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Not long now.
This is my new homepage on my browser.
If you have vassalized or PUed a country that has colonies, and you annex that country, do you then get all of its former colonies or do they all break away?
Also, will is be possible to conquer a lot of rivals' colonies and have it not give you insane OE? Would they automatically be given to your colonial nations and be cored?