Since PV development is slowly progressing, we are brainstorming all aspects of FtG almost every day. I mean, I force them poor Basi and Therion to talk about FtG with me. Come to think of it, I feel moderately guilty for that.
Just a bit.
Anyway, we were talking about lots of game aspects - what could be changed to give it more historical feel and also remove some major exploits and flaws? It went down to good old randomevents. We did some talking and result could be only one.
Random events are immensely broken. And it's not even about vanilla ones only. All of them!
So, let me address all the issues we noticed:
*Absolutely Zero Triggers = Absolutely Zero Logic.
Let me show you an example from my latest game as Uzbeks->Bukhara. So, I am running my Khanate (Emirate later on) as a state of eternal freedom - being full free trade and free subjects power, with minimal aristocracy, innovative one, you could say that Bukhara was a liberal heaven. Second richest state in the universe, certainly not ideal - but you can guess locals there were never richer tham during Golden Bukhara Age.
Yeah, so what?
Unhappiness Among Peasantry.
Heretics.
Unprovoked Revolt.
Really?
If you would be to check AGCEEP randoms file, you would notice that almost none of them has any useful trigger! So yeah, it doesn't matter what kind of state your state is, you are going to get punished anyway. And you gotta work with these nuisances, you will succeed of course but hey, is it worth it? Does it makes any sense?
Now, some might say "Dude, yo' rantin' coz' yo' had back luck dude". Oh hell naw, because it works in both directions. You get silly and illogical nerfs and buffs, maybe even more buffs!
Same game, during times much worse than Bukhara Freedom, when I was just still a poor Uzbek khan and barely took Kyzył-Kum, afraid of Shah Rukh Khan and his Timurid madmen, barely dreaming about Bukhara and Samarqand. It was not even a state, just a horde of poor Uzbeks!
Anyway, as you can guess, there ain't no rules, so apparently Uzbeks can get events like Deflation (!) or Creation of Bank (!!!). Yeah, and what would they do with these, exchange sheeps?
Uzbek Sheep Bank might sound funny, other case is that thanks to those buffs I was able to easily spam five refineries once Samarqand and Timurids had fallen. God Bless random deflation during minting ages!
Random Deflations actually helped me in turning dirt poor Turkestan into industrial powerhouse. Of course my country was doing good, so you could expect it to fight inflation effectively, but I could play mega dirt poor Tonga and get those as well! All these events have no proper triggers. Usually it makes them completely and utterly pointless. Horde bank? Peasants revolting in free state? Heretics in secular state? Hell yes, why not!
Unprovoked revolt is tip of the iceberg, a legendary event. One that should instantly be removed and never allowed to come back.
Solution you ask? Simply add goddamned triggers! At the end of post I'll add my "project" of Army Reformation random, you'll see what me talking about.
*Making DP planning useless.
So, that's quite old game, one I am really proud about. Georgia on MyMap, gathering money for four refineries since a century, then I made them and prayed that Ottomans won't come and burn them down. Well, I was lucky enough and steamrolled everyone later.
But that's not the point.
If you ever played Georgia, you know that it splits into Kartli(?) and Imereti in 147x. And what you need to prevent event from firing is either 8 centralization or aristocracy. I can't tell right now. Simply moving DP onwards won't work - you won't make it on time. You would need one or two more slider changes.
But hey, we have random events, don't we?
So, they made that epic struggle to avoid that event...too easy. Randoms have waaay to big impact on DP. With a few Treacherous Noble you can literally swing from aristocracy to plutocracy at glorious pace. It's too easy to manipulate your DP with just random events.
For example trade DP management turns out to be useless. With Unhappiness among merchants event, you can either squeeze quite a lot of money at first, when you don't trade, and then swing it back to max free trade with unhappiness's aid. Of course you'll have to move it on your own a few times, but randoms are helping immensely in this case.
Helping = breaking immersion. That's something Therion noticed: it is way to easy to change nation's image. They are losing their unique feel.
Solution? Simply drastically reduce changes of DP in randoms.
Domestic Policy is something you take care about. Random events are effects of your policies.
*Changes and ideas to make random events work
Here, take a look at my example of Army Reformation and then go down the path, everything will be clear:
1.) First of all, triggers have to be revamped. It should not mean that fully free subject state should be immune to any rebellions - random chance should be affected by your DP. Can you see trigger section in event above? That's what I spotted in Third Angel's thread about commands. Can anyone elaborate on that one, I mean does anyone tried it as for now? I believe it should work now, thou we'd need most of events changed to see the difference.
If I understood it right, random reformations should fire depending on your LAND and INNOVATIVE settings. If reqs and frequency of random events like that will be changed that much, maybe we can increase bonuses, to keep random events useful.
2.) No more only good or only bad stuff. Wanna reform army? Pay for it. Wanna support deflation efforts? Be ready to take a stabhit and lose some money since deflation makes them worthless. Trade-offs are needed, so you can support a good events and get some buffs, but also prevent nerfs, if you are able to do so. Corruption is a good example of that when it comes to existing events, thou it needs more triggers.
3.) Random groups, somehow tied to #2. In general, as for now, there should be:
*Generic random events - things you cannot and you should not be able to affect. So bad stuff like plagues or bad harvests (since your DP can't change weather in your area), but also random goodies like bountiful catch from WATKABAOI or additional yield from mines. Even a blind, old miner in dirt poor mine somewhere in Polynesia can find a new yield of gold by accident, right? Random things you or your government cannot affect.
*DP random events - well, rest of randoms should go there, as they would be heavily dependent on DP now. So, peasant revolts could be viable event for almost every DP setting. The problem is, for free subjects state there will be 10% chance, whilist oppressive and reactionary empires will have 100% chance for that. Then it adds another factor to DPs - randoms you will get. Of course, every DP should have both good and bad ones, to balance it out. It might be great way to make otherwise useless sliders like Mercantilism or Decentralization work. As for merc, events giving some money as form of "tarrifs" could work, but by going this way you'd effectively close your way to international trade (since mercantilism gives not much merchants). And decentralization could be nice for a large empires, since locals would have more autonomy.
No-brainer DPs could be challenged this way. Going full centralization could effect in more revolts and dissent against central authority. Going full free trade could somehow affect your internal economy, since nothing is that certain in free trade. It's risky.
*Specific random events - here is where things get complicated and that's probably a later stage of random events revolution. But it makes no sense for Switzerland to get events about mad aristocracy right? Objective is: to invent groups for random events, based on either territorial or political connection, to eliminate weird stuff like mentioned nobility in republics or banks in hordes.
I have no idea how to ideally split world into groups, it would require discussion and also ideas for new randomevents. But we could have a specific groups of events, for example for HRE states, or Republics, or specific countries (Japan, China, Ottomans), depending on what we need. But diving into it might consume sooo much time it's not needed for now. Making existing randoms logical is where it's at.
So, that's where it's at. If you have any ideas for changing AGCEEP randoms, or any specific ones, or if you have any experience with that trigger (which is key to whole game, really), give some feedback. I presume that converting existing randoms should not be hard, it's mostly adding triggers and more options.
This and expanding randoms via generic and DP random events would be a priority. My knowledge is limited since I am not reading any books, so you could give some examples for randoms which could occur in typical (insert DP name) state. I can think of a few (tarrifs), but that's not enough. Much more ideas would be needed.
Okay, go post stuff now! Quick!
Just a bit.
Anyway, we were talking about lots of game aspects - what could be changed to give it more historical feel and also remove some major exploits and flaws? It went down to good old randomevents. We did some talking and result could be only one.
Random events are immensely broken. And it's not even about vanilla ones only. All of them!
So, let me address all the issues we noticed:
*Absolutely Zero Triggers = Absolutely Zero Logic.
Let me show you an example from my latest game as Uzbeks->Bukhara. So, I am running my Khanate (Emirate later on) as a state of eternal freedom - being full free trade and free subjects power, with minimal aristocracy, innovative one, you could say that Bukhara was a liberal heaven. Second richest state in the universe, certainly not ideal - but you can guess locals there were never richer tham during Golden Bukhara Age.
Yeah, so what?
Unhappiness Among Peasantry.
Heretics.
Unprovoked Revolt.
Really?
If you would be to check AGCEEP randoms file, you would notice that almost none of them has any useful trigger! So yeah, it doesn't matter what kind of state your state is, you are going to get punished anyway. And you gotta work with these nuisances, you will succeed of course but hey, is it worth it? Does it makes any sense?
Now, some might say "Dude, yo' rantin' coz' yo' had back luck dude". Oh hell naw, because it works in both directions. You get silly and illogical nerfs and buffs, maybe even more buffs!
Same game, during times much worse than Bukhara Freedom, when I was just still a poor Uzbek khan and barely took Kyzył-Kum, afraid of Shah Rukh Khan and his Timurid madmen, barely dreaming about Bukhara and Samarqand. It was not even a state, just a horde of poor Uzbeks!
Anyway, as you can guess, there ain't no rules, so apparently Uzbeks can get events like Deflation (!) or Creation of Bank (!!!). Yeah, and what would they do with these, exchange sheeps?
Uzbek Sheep Bank might sound funny, other case is that thanks to those buffs I was able to easily spam five refineries once Samarqand and Timurids had fallen. God Bless random deflation during minting ages!
Random Deflations actually helped me in turning dirt poor Turkestan into industrial powerhouse. Of course my country was doing good, so you could expect it to fight inflation effectively, but I could play mega dirt poor Tonga and get those as well! All these events have no proper triggers. Usually it makes them completely and utterly pointless. Horde bank? Peasants revolting in free state? Heretics in secular state? Hell yes, why not!
Unprovoked revolt is tip of the iceberg, a legendary event. One that should instantly be removed and never allowed to come back.
Solution you ask? Simply add goddamned triggers! At the end of post I'll add my "project" of Army Reformation random, you'll see what me talking about.
*Making DP planning useless.
So, that's quite old game, one I am really proud about. Georgia on MyMap, gathering money for four refineries since a century, then I made them and prayed that Ottomans won't come and burn them down. Well, I was lucky enough and steamrolled everyone later.
But that's not the point.
If you ever played Georgia, you know that it splits into Kartli(?) and Imereti in 147x. And what you need to prevent event from firing is either 8 centralization or aristocracy. I can't tell right now. Simply moving DP onwards won't work - you won't make it on time. You would need one or two more slider changes.
But hey, we have random events, don't we?
So, they made that epic struggle to avoid that event...too easy. Randoms have waaay to big impact on DP. With a few Treacherous Noble you can literally swing from aristocracy to plutocracy at glorious pace. It's too easy to manipulate your DP with just random events.
For example trade DP management turns out to be useless. With Unhappiness among merchants event, you can either squeeze quite a lot of money at first, when you don't trade, and then swing it back to max free trade with unhappiness's aid. Of course you'll have to move it on your own a few times, but randoms are helping immensely in this case.
Helping = breaking immersion. That's something Therion noticed: it is way to easy to change nation's image. They are losing their unique feel.
Solution? Simply drastically reduce changes of DP in randoms.
Domestic Policy is something you take care about. Random events are effects of your policies.
*Changes and ideas to make random events work
Here, take a look at my example of Army Reformation and then go down the path, everything will be clear:
Code:
event = {
id = 90000013 #Paradox 1017
trigger = {
NOT = { owned = { province = 1614 data = -1 } } #not for the Pope (MUS)
NOT = { countrysize = 4 }
NOT = { land = 60 }
OR = {
AND = {
domestic = { type = LAND value = 7 } # Land army focus
domestic = { type = INNOVATIVE value = 4 } # Innovativeness
random = 40
}
AND = {
domestic = { type = LAND value = 7 } # Land army focus
domestic = { type = INNOVATIVE value = 5 } # Innovativeness
random = 50
}
AND = {
domestic = { type = LAND value = 7 } # Land army focus
domestic = { type = INNOVATIVE value = 6 } # Innovativeness
random = 60
}
AND = {
domestic = { type = LAND value = 7 } # Land army focus
domestic = { type = INNOVATIVE value = 7 } # Innovativeness
random = 70
}
AND = {
domestic = { type = LAND value = 7 } # Land army focus
domestic = { type = INNOVATIVE value = 8 } # Innovativeness
random = 80
}
AND = {
domestic = { type = LAND value = 7 } # Land army focus
domestic = { type = INNOVATIVE value = 9 } # Innovativeness
random = 90
}
AND = {
domestic = { type = LAND value = 8 } # Land army focus
domestic = { type = INNOVATIVE value = 9 } # Innovativeness
random = 100
}
}
}
random = yes
name = "EVENTNAME_RANDOM013" #Reformation of the Army
desc = "EVENTHIST_RANDOM013"
#-#Army reformation be it from new tactics weapons or command or any other reason often translated into better combat efficiency.
action_a = {
name = "Adopt reforms"
command = { type = treasury value = -25 } # 1$/10 research $
command = { type = land value = 250 }
command = { type = vp value = 25 }
command = { type = MIL which = 36 value = 1 }
}
action_b = {
name = "We cannot afford it"
command = { type = land value = -50 }
command = { type = vp value = -5 }
command = { type = MIL which = 36 value = -1 }
}
}
1.) First of all, triggers have to be revamped. It should not mean that fully free subject state should be immune to any rebellions - random chance should be affected by your DP. Can you see trigger section in event above? That's what I spotted in Third Angel's thread about commands. Can anyone elaborate on that one, I mean does anyone tried it as for now? I believe it should work now, thou we'd need most of events changed to see the difference.
If I understood it right, random reformations should fire depending on your LAND and INNOVATIVE settings. If reqs and frequency of random events like that will be changed that much, maybe we can increase bonuses, to keep random events useful.
2.) No more only good or only bad stuff. Wanna reform army? Pay for it. Wanna support deflation efforts? Be ready to take a stabhit and lose some money since deflation makes them worthless. Trade-offs are needed, so you can support a good events and get some buffs, but also prevent nerfs, if you are able to do so. Corruption is a good example of that when it comes to existing events, thou it needs more triggers.
3.) Random groups, somehow tied to #2. In general, as for now, there should be:
*Generic random events - things you cannot and you should not be able to affect. So bad stuff like plagues or bad harvests (since your DP can't change weather in your area), but also random goodies like bountiful catch from WATKABAOI or additional yield from mines. Even a blind, old miner in dirt poor mine somewhere in Polynesia can find a new yield of gold by accident, right? Random things you or your government cannot affect.
*DP random events - well, rest of randoms should go there, as they would be heavily dependent on DP now. So, peasant revolts could be viable event for almost every DP setting. The problem is, for free subjects state there will be 10% chance, whilist oppressive and reactionary empires will have 100% chance for that. Then it adds another factor to DPs - randoms you will get. Of course, every DP should have both good and bad ones, to balance it out. It might be great way to make otherwise useless sliders like Mercantilism or Decentralization work. As for merc, events giving some money as form of "tarrifs" could work, but by going this way you'd effectively close your way to international trade (since mercantilism gives not much merchants). And decentralization could be nice for a large empires, since locals would have more autonomy.
No-brainer DPs could be challenged this way. Going full centralization could effect in more revolts and dissent against central authority. Going full free trade could somehow affect your internal economy, since nothing is that certain in free trade. It's risky.
*Specific random events - here is where things get complicated and that's probably a later stage of random events revolution. But it makes no sense for Switzerland to get events about mad aristocracy right? Objective is: to invent groups for random events, based on either territorial or political connection, to eliminate weird stuff like mentioned nobility in republics or banks in hordes.
I have no idea how to ideally split world into groups, it would require discussion and also ideas for new randomevents. But we could have a specific groups of events, for example for HRE states, or Republics, or specific countries (Japan, China, Ottomans), depending on what we need. But diving into it might consume sooo much time it's not needed for now. Making existing randoms logical is where it's at.
So, that's where it's at. If you have any ideas for changing AGCEEP randoms, or any specific ones, or if you have any experience with that trigger (which is key to whole game, really), give some feedback. I presume that converting existing randoms should not be hard, it's mostly adding triggers and more options.
This and expanding randoms via generic and DP random events would be a priority. My knowledge is limited since I am not reading any books, so you could give some examples for randoms which could occur in typical (insert DP name) state. I can think of a few (tarrifs), but that's not enough. Much more ideas would be needed.
Okay, go post stuff now! Quick!