[MOD] SWMH 2.0 Map, de jure and general history mod. For a superior CK2 experience

[elvain]

What are the province IDs for the counties in the wastelands of Africa and Middle East? I fear I dislike them. As personal flavor I'd love to delete them, but I am unsure how to do this. Some help would be appreciated. It'd save me the trouble of trying to do it on my own I suppose. Otherwise, very fancy mod.

Before I give you the IDs, may I ask you, what do you dislike about them? they were desert wastelands, where nobody lived. And what do you plan to put there instead?

 

[Meneth]

Before I give you the IDs, may I ask you, what do you dislike about them? they were desert wastelands, where nobody lived. And what do you plan to put there instead?

I think what he's saying is that he dislikes the oases, not the wastelands themselves

 

[Aasmul]

What are the province IDs for the counties in the wastelands of Africa and Middle East? I fear I dislike them. As personal flavor I'd love to delete them, but I am unsure how to do this. Some help would be appreciated. It'd save me the trouble of trying to do it on my own I suppose.

the best thing you could do is too open up the province.bmp in a photo editing program(pain.net, gimp, psd etc) and then select the color of one of the oasis and use that to fill out the dessert provinces in question(if you have screenshot of the map at hand you should be able to see whats what pretty easily). Only a few of the provinces used for dessert is old ids(like negev) the rest is new ones with no settlements ever made for them. Its because there didn't live anybody there and for half of the provinces there dosn't live anybody there to this day(Syrian desert have got a couple of gasstations along the highways but thats it, and only the very northernmost points of the negev was settled by a few kibutz' in the late 70ies)

Otherwise, very fancy mod.

Thanks

 

[elvain]

I think what he's saying is that he dislikes the oases, not the wastelands themselves

what I want to know is what exactly the people dislike about them, so we could - if possible - change it

 

[Meneth]

what I want to know is what exactly the people dislike about them, so we could - if possible - change it

The only thing I mind about them is that they kind of stand out like a sore thumb. They clash with the area graphically to some extent.
Same goes for Mali though, those borders are atrocious, far worse than the oases.

 

[theKing1988]

The only thing I mind about them is that they kind of stand out like a sore thumb. They clash with the area graphically to some extent.
Same goes for Mali though, those borders are atrocious, far worse than the oases.

That shouldn't be a problem anymore when Elvain completes his African overhaul for the next release. Everything but Kanem, Nubia and Abyssinia gets a much needed facelift.

 

[elvain]

The only thing I mind about them is that they kind of stand out like a sore thumb. They clash with the area graphically to some extent.
Same goes for Mali though, those borders are atrocious, far worse than the oases.

That shouldn't be a problem anymore when Elvain completes his African overhaul for the next release. Everything but Kanem, Nubia and Abyssinia gets a much needed facelift.

That is why I want as much feedback as possible, so we could, if possible, do facelift also to the oases in the Syrian desert and Nefud.

I mean, is the clash the fact, that they are in the middle of nowhere? or is the problem about their shapes? That is the point. The latter could be tweaked, the former, obviously, not. Unless we solve it the way I sloved it in the Sahara. But, franky, Sahara was inhabited while Nefud and Syrian desert is not. And the shape of Saharan provinces also suggests the principal trans-Saharan trade routes.

 

[Arko]

The only thing I mind about them is that they kind of stand out like a sore thumb. They clash with the area graphically to some extent.

problem is SWMH adds a de jure appartenance to them that makes appearing an ugly border. that wasn't the case when I designed them.
Mali borders are moslty vanilla's.

 

[elvain]

problem is SWMH adds a de jure appartenance to them that makes appearing an ugly border. that wasn't the case when I designed them.
Mali borders are moslty vanilla's.

Spoiler

And how did you do this? Are they micro provinces? or...?

btw, the problem with Sahara will really disappear as you can see in my sketch here.

 

[Melnerag]

Wow, those west-african overhaul changes are amazing. I can really see myself building a mighty african empire, spilling out from Sahara onto the North African shore, building ships and raising armies...and paying Pope a visit he will not soon forget.

If East African changes are of the similar quality....wow, just wow.

 

[Arko]

And how did you do this? Are they micro provinces? or...?

those are exactly the same as implemented in SWMH, they only have no de jure appartenance at all.

yeah I saw your sketch, it clearly doesn't pursue the same. my aim wasn't to have a playable area here, nor having any political power, just insignificant oasis along the roads. I wish you best luck as it would be a crazy balancing headache, looking at how insignificant oases already upset people.

 

[EmperorTojo]

The only thing I mind about them is that they kind of stand out like a sore thumb. They clash with the area graphically to some extent.
Same goes for Mali though, those borders are atrocious, far worse than the oases.

Sorry for the misunderstanding,I meant the oasies. And since you were curious, elvain, this is kind of the reason above. The oasis provinces aren't connected to anything else and it's sort of wierd to have them surrounded by wasteland. Looks out of place and all. Pretty much what Meneth said. I'll look forward to the update however.

EDIT: And thanks for the help, Aasmul!

 

[elvain]

Wow, those west-african overhaul changes are amazing. I can really see myself building a mighty african empire, spilling out from Sahara onto the North African shore, building ships and raising armies...and paying Pope a visit he will not soon forget.

If East African changes are of the similar quality....wow, just wow.

Thanks, it's pleasing to read you like it
We will see about East Africa. All I can say is that I like Sahara and West Africa much better.

those are exactly the same as implemented in SWMH, they only have no de jure appartenance at all.

yeah I saw your sketch, it clearly doesn't pursue the same. my aim wasn't to have a playable area here, nor having any political power, just insignificant oasis along the roads. I wish you best luck as it would be a crazy balancing headache, looking at how insignificant oases already upset people.

Thanks, AFAIK, the problem people have with oases (apart from how they look like) in ballancing is mainly that they enable easy and fast conquest across the desert. I hope that I will find solution for this.. there already is some plan, let's hope it will work.

What we do NOT plan is to make the Sahara any powerbase or anything even close to it. It should enable the player to get his armies to the other side of the desert, very few parts of it will even be playable, but the desert should be hard to pass it should definitely disallow trans-Saharan empires.

Sorry for the misunderstanding,I meant the oasies. But since you were curious, elvain, this is kind of the reason above. The oasis provinces aren't connected to anything else and it's sort of wierd to have them surrounded by wasteland. Looks out of place and all. Pretty much what Meneth said though. I'll look forward to the update however.

Well, then this problem can only be solved in Africa. In Syria it would look really weird to have those long provinces I have sketched for Sahara.

 

[fairleystuff]

I don't think the Kingdom of Toulouse title should exist, it gets created most games by an independent Toulouse for me. I doubt the Duke of Toulouse had any ambition to recreate a 500 year old kingdom.

I think the problem with the oases is that the AI messes about with them too much instead of just leaving them for movement purposes. As the Sultan of Tripolitania my western neighbors declared 10+ wars on me over one oasis.

 

[CiderMuffin]

The download doesn't seem to work for me, is it working for anyone else?

 

[BL68]

i am getting a filedownloader, is that a virus ?????


edit. now it is working. that was scary.

 

[cybrxkhan]

For those interested, my latest update for Cultures and Portraits Revamp mod now includes a SWMH/PB+SWMH compatible version. While it doesn't have the new cultures in CPR, it does have the new portrait sets.



@SWMH modders: As a side note, while I was making the SWMH compatible versions, I thought of a few suggestions for y'all. I know you guys are busy with revamping vanilla's horrid rendition of Africa Africa, but I thought perhaps you guys might give these some thought for later versions. Mainly, I've noticed that while you seem to have diversified the European cultures quite a lot (such as in Italy), much of the non-European world remains more or less the same as vanilla in terms of culture set-up. As such, these are my suggested cultures (most from CPR, but others I didn't want to implement in CPR) (also I've more or less copied this from another thread, if you don't mind):

New cultures:

- Nubian: because Nubians =/= Ethiopians. They're not in the same language family, they followed different forms of Christianity, etc
- Bulgar: the Bulgars (sorta like the Turks) that are still running around in the steppes, instead of the Bulgarians
- Pashtun and Baluchi: to represent the mountain tribes of eastern Iran, Pakistan, and Afghanistan (north and south, respectively)
- Azeri: to represent the somewhat confusing area of NW Iran that has a weird mix of Turkish and Persian culture
- Udmurt: vanilla Komi is way too big a group - Udmurts would be the formerly eastern Komi provinces. If you think you're up for it, I would suggest splitting the Komi up even more, as well as the other Finnic pagan groups in general.
- Tajik: Iranians living in Central Asia
- Mossi: more splitting up of West Africa's monolithic boredom in vanilla (if you haven't already, I would suggest taking a look at Korbah's outdated NAE mod for more province and culture ideas - he also has the Sosso, Jolof, Songhai (I think), Hausa, and Kanem-Bornese cultures; there's also plenty, plenty more cultures, particularly since you're working on Africa now anyways)


Melting pot cultures:
- Sudanese Arabic - if the Muslims take over Nubia and/or Ethiopia
- Crimean Tatar - Turkified descendants of the Mongols in southern Russia
- Chagatai - the heavily Persianized descendants of the Mongols in Central Asia


A few other cultures I didn't implement in CPR because they were too small for CPR's scope, but ones you can consider:

- Guanche (Canary Islands): not the same as the Berbers, and they were said to be rather pale-looking
- Anatolian Turkish: a melting pot to represent the Turks who settled in Anatolia and mixed with the local population
- Yemeni Arabic: The much more urbanized and cosmopolitan (and trade heavy) Yemen was not the same as the Bedouin nomads
- Omani Arabic: same as above
- Cretan Greek: Crete has had a rather interesting history of switching different cultures and all
- Maltese: for Siculo-Arabs/Maghreb Arabs in Malta who become Westernized and Christianized
- Coptic: Christian Egyptians
- Oromo: right below the Ethiopians
- Beja: muslim east Africans on the coast of the Red Sea, related to the Arabs I think


Again, I know you guys are busy with West Africa, but I found it a bit jarring that currently Europe's pretty diversified in SWMH while most places outside of Europe aren't. I figure you guys will get around to that eventually, so I just threw up the suggestions above if you're interested.

 

[elvain]

thanks for your suggestions, cybrxkhan.

African overhaul is just one of 3 things we are working on now (it's my task), Axl and Aasmul work on British Isles and Russia respectively, so the update-to-come will be really huge and will take some time.
Since my North+West African overhaul includes also Egypt, it is possible that some of your suggestions will be taken into account.

For now you can be sure, that there is no way for West Africa to remain monolithic. There will be at least 4 different cultures. As for now, Mossi seems bit marginal from my perspective (it could cover 4 marginal provinces with very few settlements, which are yet under consideration whether to be included or not). Also you should not expect NAE cultures. In my overhaul, Sosso culture would only cover 2 provinces, which is IMO not worth bothering. I prefer to introduce the leading culture of Ghana/Wagadu to CK2 (strangely enough I will be the first to do so, despite quite a few great mods improving Africa).

As for Azeri/Tajik/Pashtu and Baluchi - these may be a possibilities for Persia as soon as we start working on it.

 

[Aasmul]

The download doesn't seem to work for me, is it working for anyone else?

i am getting a filedownloader, is that a virus ?????


edit. now it is working. that was scary.

Link still work when I tested, we are looking for an alternative filehosting side atm though, since mediafire isn't as dependable as it used to be.

For those interested, my latest update for Cultures and Portraits Revamp mod now includes a SWMH/PB+SWMH compatible version. While it doesn't have the new cultures in CPR, it does have the new portrait sets.

Awesome!, Nice to see them comptible

@SWMH modders: As a side note, while I was making the SWMH compatible versions, I thought of a few suggestions for y'all. I know you guys are busy with revamping vanilla's horrid rendition of Africa Africa, but I thought perhaps you guys might give these some thought for later versions. Mainly, I've noticed that while you seem to have diversified the European cultures quite a lot (such as in Italy), much of the non-European world remains more or less the same as vanilla in terms of culture set-up. As such, these are my suggested cultures (most from CPR, but others I didn't want to implement in CPR) (also I've more or less copied this from another thread, if you don't mind):

New cultures:

- Nubian: because Nubians =/= Ethiopians. They're not in the same language family, they followed different forms of Christianity, etc
- Bulgar: the Bulgars (sorta like the Turks) that are still running around in the steppes, instead of the Bulgarians
- Pashtun and Baluchi: to represent the mountain tribes of eastern Iran, Pakistan, and Afghanistan (north and south, respectively)
- Azeri: to represent the somewhat confusing area of NW Iran that has a weird mix of Turkish and Persian culture
- Udmurt: vanilla Komi is way too big a group - Udmurts would be the formerly eastern Komi provinces. If you think you're up for it, I would suggest splitting the Komi up even more, as well as the other Finnic pagan groups in general.
- Tajik: Iranians living in Central Asia
- Mossi: more splitting up of West Africa's monolithic boredom in vanilla (if you haven't already, I would suggest taking a look at Korbah's outdated NAE mod for more province and culture ideas - he also has the Sosso, Jolof, Songhai (I think), Hausa, and Kanem-Bornese cultures; there's also plenty, plenty more cultures, particularly since you're working on Africa now anyways)


Melting pot cultures:
- Sudanese Arabic - if the Muslims take over Nubia and/or Ethiopia
- Crimean Tatar - Turkified descendants of the Mongols in southern Russia
- Chagatai - the heavily Persianized descendants of the Mongols in Central Asia


A few other cultures I didn't implement in CPR because they were too small for CPR's scope, but ones you can consider:

- Guanche (Canary Islands): not the same as the Berbers, and they were said to be rather pale-looking
- Anatolian Turkish: a melting pot to represent the Turks who settled in Anatolia and mixed with the local population
- Yemeni Arabic: The much more urbanized and cosmopolitan (and trade heavy) Yemen was not the same as the Bedouin nomads
- Omani Arabic: same as above
- Cretan Greek: Crete has had a rather interesting history of switching different cultures and all
- Maltese: for Siculo-Arabs/Maghreb Arabs in Malta who become Westernized and Christianized
- Coptic: Christian Egyptians
- Oromo: right below the Ethiopians
- Beja: muslim east Africans on the coast of the Red Sea, related to the Arabs I think


Again, I know you guys are busy with West Africa, but I found it a bit jarring that currently Europe's pretty diversified in SWMH while most places outside of Europe aren't. I figure you guys will get around to that eventually, so I just threw up the suggestions above if you're interested.

Can't speak for the Africans thats Elvains territory. But Volga-Bulgars definatly and there will also be a shakeup of all the finno/komi cultures, most likely in the following verion though, since the one we are working on atm is mostly map focused.


edit- ninjaed :ninja:

 

[Evander]

Is there any more accurate ETA for next version ? I can't wait to adapt my DEIOU for SWMH.