[MOD] SWMH 2.0 Map, de jure and general history mod. For a superior CK2 experience

[ragbe]

I found a bug in the family tree of the della Gherardesca of Pisa as almost all of the family members are disconnected on the familytree and they are all stacked under one another on the left.

I checked vanilla and the family tree is connected there, so you might want to check that out.

Edit
I found the problem. You need to add the correct father and dynasty (13031) to some members in the jfl78_italian_sardinian.txt. They can be found under the heading Giudice of Gallura. A few of them have a father=0 and dynasty=0 entry and these need to be corrected.

 

[lascupa0788]

I hope to see basic implementation of sea provinces in the Red Sea, Persian Gulf, and Indian Ocean soon. If I'm not mistaken, all sea provinces must interlink- which wouldn't be a problem if you implemented a 'strait' over Suez. I know that the canal is a modern thing, but the area is rather the 'path of least resistance' for dragging ships over land, and I think gameplay prospects for the Muslim nations in the southeast overwhelm the ahistoricity of it.

I also agree, we need more Merchant Republics. I see three ways to go about that:
A: Add a few to the North to compete with Gotland, and maybe some to the Southeast, for balance reasons.
B: Add a tonne to Italy, making competition even more fierce and interesting. This is fairly historical, what with the republics of Lucca, Amalfi, Nissa, Arborea, Ragusa, and so on.
C: Add every historical Merchant republic. This means a tonne for Italy, a fair few for Northern Germany- an event system could be introduced for the Hansa- Novgorod, Iceland, the list goes on. This might be a a bit over the top, but it's of course up to the developers.

Oh, and I think some improvements could be done for the Crimea. I mean, it's played host to Byzantine outposts, Genoan colonies, the Empire of Theodora, Crimean Taters, the last of the Goths, and a myriad host of other interesting happenings. 4 provinces do not feel like enough, and the Goths should be represented somehow.

 

[CJL78]

I also agree, we need more Merchant Republics. I see three ways to go about that:
A: Add a few to the North to compete with Gotland, and maybe some to the Southeast, for balance reasons.
B: Add a tonne to Italy, making competition even more fierce and interesting. This is fairly historical, what with the republics of Lucca, Amalfi, Nissa, Arborea, Ragusa, and so on.
C: Add every historical Merchant republic. This means a tonne for Italy, a fair few for Northern Germany- an event system could be introduced for the Hansa- Novgorod, Iceland, the list goes on. This might be a a bit over the top, but it's of course up to the developers.
.

Ragusa as a vassal of Byz and an independent Greek culture Orthodox Amalfi should be present at start. Lucca could be at later starts but Nissa and Arborea are the Genoese and Pisan playgrounds. 'Marche' should just be 'Ancona', 'March of' title, and a Republic of Ancona could easily form as well. I will probably be working on this myself if the team wants to use my work again but probably not anytime too soon.

Russian history's not my thing so I'm not sure when exactly Novgorod should be a 'merchant republic' as opposed to a 'monarchy' but that would be good to have in the region if possible; Novgorod's landlocked though (this is kind of a flaw imo as Florence, Nuremberg, etc. cannot use the mechanics either)

If there's not already, there should be events for the Hansa but I haven't played around enough to know yet.


Speaking of merchant republics, though, my play time with the new DLC now leads me to think that sea zones should be reworked in some areas. The shape of sea zones and port locations was not really important before but now it is critical to trade bonuses for the merchant republics. For example, Sea of Crete has no ports so it cannot be controlled, and this actually creates a 'barrier' or disincentive to go trade posting further east into Byz territory. I would actually recommend Crete being in the middle of its own sea zone.

I got to say though, playing a game with the new mechanics and SWMH's beautiful map it is a joy to 'colonize' the Mediterranean, watching Venice slowly dominate the Adriatic and begin to conquer Dalmatia, Genoa and Pisa fighting over Sardinia and Corsica and trying to gain a foothold in Spain and Sicily... and then have the HRE side with one of the republics, only to embargo the other one a few decades later, playing them off each other !

 

[theKing1988]

Ragusa as a vassal of Byz and an independent Greek culture Orthodox Amalfi should be present at start. Lucca could be at later starts but Nissa and Arborea are the Genoese and Pisan playgrounds. 'Marche' should just be 'Ancona', 'March of' title, and a Republic of Ancona could easily form as well. I will probably be working on this myself if the team wants to use my work again but probably not anytime too soon.

Russian history's not my thing so I'm not sure when exactly Novgorod should be a 'merchant republic' as opposed to a 'monarchy' but that would be good to have in the region if possible; Novgorod's landlocked though (this is kind of a flaw imo as Florence, Nuremberg, etc. cannot use the mechanics either)

If there's not already, there should be events for the Hansa but I haven't played around enough to know yet.


Speaking of merchant republics, though, my play time with the new DLC now leads me to think that sea zones should be reworked in some areas. The shape of sea zones and port locations was not really important before but now it is critical to trade bonuses for the merchant republics. For example, Sea of Crete has no ports so it cannot be controlled, and this actually creates a 'barrier' or disincentive to go trade posting further east into Byz territory. I would actually recommend Crete being in the middle of its own sea zone.

I got to say though, playing a game with the new mechanics and SWMH's beautiful map it is a joy to 'colonize' the Mediterranean, watching Venice slowly dominate the Adriatic and begin to conquer Dalmatia, Genoa and Pisa fighting over Sardinia and Corsica and trying to gain a foothold in Spain and Sicily... and then have the HRE side with one of the republics, only to embargo the other one a few decades later, playing them off each other !

I agree with this, plus lascupa seem to confusing county level merchant rule with actual republics (duchy-level). Because at a duchy level i'm pretty sure it is quite limited how many republics can actually be added.

 

[elvain]

something from the pre-republican last page

Looks good elvain, but might i suggest that you loose a few of the Central Saharan provinces and maybe add them at the Northern Coast or down in Mali/Songhay. The only real reason for Central Sahara to be present in the game (province wise) is to simulate the Sub-Saharan trade routes. And the number of provinces in Adrar, Taghaza, Tuat and Hoggar seems a bit too much to me. I think 3 provinces would suffice instead (4 for Tuat). But if you end up continuing with the current setup, then i strongly suggest making the most if not all of the provinces in those duchies into one holding max. provinces.

Thanks for very constructive notes.

First of all I can assure you that in general, the Ghana/Wagadu, Mali and Songhay will have as many settlements as the provinces in Maghreb, while 90% of the Saharan provinces will - according to history - have only 1 settlement (with Tuat and Adrar provinces as exceptions).

There are, nontheless, few more reasons to have more provinces i the Sahara, than just representation of the Trans-Saharan trade.
1) History. Adrar was the real base of the Almoravids and it deserves this number of provinces. Also though it may sound weird, the Sahara deserves more provinces also make the trans-Saharan conquest both not too easy, but possible at the same time. Which leads to another reason...
2) Marching armies and attrition. While the route via Taghaza was the shortest to Bambuk and Bure (in Mali) goldfields, it was also by far the most dangerous and armies should suffer a lot when marching this route. And you can't cause much attrition with only one desert province, the exhaustion was really hard.

Spoiler

historical note:
on a way from Sijilmassa (in Sus) to Walata/Timbuktu, the custom was, that the caravans met a "supply" band (carrying water) in the middle of desert to be able to cross it (they could not carry enough water from Taghaza to get safely to the next oasis). Before a caravana left Taghaza, it sent an agent to announce its arrival in the south). If the agent died enroute, the caravan's fate was sealed. Only between Taghaza and Walata/Timbuktu this happened twice!

3) Allow some more strategy to passing the desert. One may like to send doomstacks at once, while the other sends smaller, but more contingents.

 

[theKing1988]

something from the pre-republican last page


Thanks for very constructive notes.

First of all I can assure you that in general, the Ghana/Wagadu, Mali and Songhay will have as many settlements as the provinces in Maghreb, while 90% of the Saharan provinces will - according to history - have only 1 settlement (with Tuat and Adrar provinces as exceptions).

There are, nontheless, few more reasons to have more provinces i the Sahara, than just representation of the Trans-Saharan trade.
1) History. Adrar was the real base of the Almoravids and it deserves this number of provinces. Also though it may sound weird, the Sahara deserves more provinces also make the trans-Saharan conquest both not too easy, but possible at the same time. Which leads to another reason...
2) Marching armies and attrition. While the route via Taghaza was the shortest to Bambuk and Bure (in Mali) goldfields, it was also by far the most dangerous and armies should suffer a lot when marching this route. And you can't cause much attrition with only one desert province, the exhaustion was really hard.

Spoiler

historical note:
on a way from Sijilmassa (in Sus) to Walata/Timbuktu, the custom was, that the caravans met a "supply" band (carrying water) in the middle of desert to be able to cross it (they could not carry enough water from Taghaza to get safely to the next oasis). Before a caravana left Taghaza, it sent an agent to announce its arrival in the south). If the agent died enroute, the caravan's fate was sealed. Only between Taghaza and Walata/Timbuktu this happened twice!

3) Allow some more strategy to passing the desert. One may like to send doomstacks at once, while the other sends smaller, but more contingents.

When you put it like that, that actually makes your setup make quite a lot of sense. Great job, i'm looking forward to seeing it completed.

ETA: Another question, will we see a more accurate representation of the religions in West Africa when you release your work. The Vanilla setup makes Islam way more powerful than it was in Western Africa in the mid to late 11th Century. Quite a lot of provinces and rulers should be pagan imo.

Also, will there be introduced a cultural split in West Africa so they aren't all just Mande and will the Tuareg Berbers finally be given the black african faces. Currently they still use the Arab ones.

 

[elvain]

When you put it like that, that actually makes your setup make quite a lot of sense. Great job, i'm looking forward to seeing it completed.

and you can only guess how much work is still ahead

The Vanilla setup makes Islam way more powerful than it was in Western Africa in the mid to late 11th Century. Quite a lot of provinces and rulers should be pagan imo.

Also, will there be introduced a cultural split in West Africa so they aren't all just Mande and will the Tuareg Berbers finally be given the black african faces. Currently they still use the Arab ones.

Religions: Takrur was islamized in 1030's. Ghana was islamized in 1076. Everything else, except the Berbers should be animist.

Cultures. I don't own all the necessary DLCs, so I can't promise testing it, but generaly I want to:
- have Sanhaja and Tuareg cultures separated.
- have at least 2-3 cultures in West Africa and then few more in the next step when working on the Chad basin.
-concerning faces.. you know, Tuaregs are something inbetween... we'll see. The team will be to decide.

But I'm affraid I'm revealing more of my plans than I should... yet, these are only plans

 

[Axl Madness]

Elvain, remember that there are two rules that lead to a success, and the first one is never saying everything you know.

BTW, the last map I'm going to show, mainly because now begins the boring part... designing CoA's, filling text files, blablabla...

 

[fargoniac]

Can't wait for britain overhaul.

 

[Andrzej I]

Two surprises, you say?

 

[fargoniac]

My guess:
1.Chthulu Vikings in Bjorkvik
2.184 shades of green

 

[theKing1988]

and you can only guess how much work is still ahead



Religions: Takrur was islamized in 1030's. Ghana was islamized in 1076 (for gameplay reasons I might make the Ghanas muslims even in 1066, but on the other hand, that would discourage the Almoravids to push the conversion and attack them.. I'm not decided yet. The rest, except the Berbers should be animist.

EDIT: except the cities. F.i. Yaresná in Bambuk or other merchant cities will have muslim mayors, if possible.

Cultures. Due to RL issues I don't own all the necessary DLCs, so I can't promise testing it, but generaly I want to:
- have Sanhaja and Tuareg cultures separated.
- have at least 2-3 cultures in West Africa (Mandinke, Soninke, possibly also Wolof) and then few more in the next step when working on the Chad basin.
-concerning faces.. you know, Tuaregs are something inbetween... we'll see. The team will be to decide.

But I'm affraid I'm revealing more of my plans than I should... yet, these are only plans

Don't worry i'm sure it'll be great no matter what you decide on, so far SWMH has been nothing but great gameplay from my perspective.

 

[theKing1988]

Not that i expect you to release it all at the same time, but you guys seem to have different projects. Aasmul seems to be working on Anatolia, Axl is doing the British Isles and Elvain is doing Africa. But which of these projects are farthest along i.e. will be part of the next release and which will have to wait a release or two.

 

[Axl Madness]

My guess:
1.Chthulu Vikings in Bjorkvik
2.184 shades of green

F*ck you, spoiler! You have ruined my Chthulu Ascension minimod! >_<
Three provinces less to Wales for your boldness

Two surprises, you say?

I promise they are nice surprises in the islands gameplay.

Not that i expect you to release it all at the same time, but you guys seem to have different projects. Aasmul seems to be working on Anatolia, Axl is doing the British Isles and Elvain is doing Africa. But which of these projects are farthest along i.e. will be part of the next release and which will have to wait a release or two.

Aasmul is currently working on something a little bit bigger than Anatolia. But he menaced to convert the Iberian Peninsula in a one county/duchy/kingdom if I say something about it, so no spoilers for the moment...
We are working in three different branches at the moment, and yes, is intended to include both three in the next update. I want to remark the word intended x'D

 

[richvh]

I sense a disturbance in the force... the ouija board says J-E-R-S-E-Y-A-N-D-G-U-E-R-N-S-E-Y

I am clueless as to what breeds of dairy cattle have to do with CK2 though.

 

[fargoniac]

F*ck you, spoiler! You have ruined my Chthulu Ascension minimod! >_<
Three provinces less to Wales for your boldness

:cry:

 

[Ruwaard]

@ Axl Madness: Britain and Ireland look great! Can't wait for the overhaul!

@richvh: Jersey & Guernsey? Are those a part of the duchy of Normandy?

 

[theKing1988]

@ Axl Madness: Britain and Ireland look great! Can't wait for the overhaul!

@richvh: Jersey & Guernsey? Are those a part of the duchy of Normandy?

Going on the colouring i can't find a corresponding duchy in England so either that or they have a duchy of their own. Although i would rather have them be part of Normandy, which is pretty historically accurate.

Hopefully though, they will only include 1-2 holdings, they have never possessed that great number of inhabitants, trade power or Military power and the Brits actively considered handing them over to France when they lost their last holdings on the mainland as far as i'm aware.

 

[Arko]

@richvh: Jersey & Guernsey? Are those a part of the duchy of Normandy?

a republic maybe ?

 

[Axl Madness]

Guernsey and Jersey are on the map... obviously, that's not the surprise x'D
They will have its own duchy, but will be more aesthetic than powerful. Maybe they could have a strategical value having a landed connection with Normandie.
The historical would be include them inside Normandie, but that duchy is enough big.