February 86 - Preparing for Roman on Roman hot action
Well, in February 86, I am solving a few outstanding issues.
In Greece, I finally defeat the Pontics decisively, at Migdonia.
25 000 dead Greeks, and an enemy stack that is wiped out.
One stack left :
Meanwhile, the Populares finally take that port on that island. Not so strategic, but it means Loki has 2 legions freed... except if I can trap them on their island. I don't have the ships for that... for now.
Meanwhile, my landing force for Africa is ready, but the weather is not :
Those storms can wipe out a fleet in one turn, so I will wait a little.
Finally, the Populares are ALSO getting ready for action :
Another clash is imminent.
Beginner's Corner - Combat III - Melee Phase
OK, this one is a biggie. I promise the next Beginner's Corner are going to be more "beginner".
After having seen the frontage rule in the first Corner on combat, and fire phase in the second, let’s now study the melee phase.
To be honest, the melee phase is, by far, the most important in AGEOD. I believe 95% of the damage in battle are done in melee.
For this test, we are not going to take our archers or last time, but a stronger force in melee.
I wanted to take a legion, to have an epic legion vs phalanx combat, but I settled for something smaller :
On the Roman side, a unit of 5 elements of cavalry, with Sulla (6-5-5) merged with the unit, and a unit of 4 Roman auxiliaries. Sulla is the only leader in the unit.
On the Pontic side, a unit of 10 Hellenistic phalanxes elements, with Diogenes (4-2-1) merged with the unit, and Archaleos (4-4-4) leading the stack.
Here are the people involved :
The battle happens in Wooded Hills. Both sides are in attack, but the Romans are “conservative” in their attack.
Once again, I am going to use the battlelog. The beginning is familiar :
13:05:19 (Reporting) GetRound SubList 22 SUs can be involved during this round.
13:05:19 (Reporting) Round: 0 Optimates is committing 9 Lines SUs and 1 Supports SUs
13:05:19 (Reporting) Round: 0 Pontus is committing 10 Lines SUs and 1 Supports SUs
13:05:19 (Reporting) OPT 1001190 Roman Cavalry [Line] Round ROF: 1 Round Initiative: 9 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) OPT 1001180 Roman Auxilliaries [Line] Round ROF: 1 Round Initiative: 7 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) PON 1002486 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry [Line] Round ROF: 0 Round Initiative: 5 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) PON 1002483 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry [Line] Round ROF: 0 Round Initiative: 5 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) PON 1002489 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry [Line] Round ROF: 0 Round Initiative: 5 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) OPT 1001192 Roman Cavalry [Line] Round ROF: 1 Round Initiative: 9 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) PON 1002485 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry [Line] Round ROF: 0 Round Initiative: 5 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) PON 1002490 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry [Line] Round ROF: 0 Round Initiative: 5 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) OPT 1001181 Roman Auxilliaries [Line] Round ROF: 1 Round Initiative: 7 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) PON 1002488 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry [Line] Round ROF: 0 Round Initiative: 5 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) OPT 1001189 Roman Cavalry [Line] Round ROF: 1 Round Initiative: 9 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) PON 1002481 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry [Line] Round ROF: 0 Round Initiative: 5 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) PON 1002482 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry [Line] Round ROF: 0 Round Initiative: 5 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) OPT 1001182 Roman Auxilliaries [Line] Round ROF: 1 Round Initiative: 7 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) OPT 1001191 Roman Cavalry [Line] Round ROF: 1 Round Initiative: 9 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) PON 1002484 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry [Line] Round ROF: 0 Round Initiative: 5 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) OPT 1001179 Roman Auxilliaries [Line] Round ROF: 1 Round Initiative: 7 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) PON 1002487 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry [Line] Round ROF: 0 Round Initiative: 5 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) OPT 1001188 Roman Cavalry [Line] Round ROF: 1 Round Initiative: 9 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) PON 1002453 Diogenes [Support] Round ROF: 1 Round Initiative: 10 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
13:05:19 (Reporting) OPT 1001096 Lucius Cornelius Sulla [Support] Round ROF: 1 Round Initiative: 11 BattleGround: Wooded Hills
As you may notice, out of 22 elements, 21 are committed. The uncommitted element is Diogenes, who is merged with the phalanxes. While merged with the cavalry, Sulla is committed. Why ? Because there is no “independent” commander for the stack, so Sulla is considered as “not-merged” with the cavalry so he can fulfill this role.
13:05:19 (Reporting) Round: 0 Battle is now at range 1
13:05:19 (Reporting) There are 4 SU eligibles to attack at this range (1).
OK, we already did this phase. That’s the auxiliaries hurling javelins. Normally, this phase is clear for us.
13:05:19 (Reporting) Round: 0 Battle is now at range 0
13:05:19 (Reporting) There are 19 SU eligibles to attack at this range (0).
Ahah ! It gets interesting for us.
At range zero like at any other range, each unit is picked one after the other, randomly by influenced by initiative. Yet again, I cannot show it with the log, but the developer explained me that all the elements are put in a “randomizing bag”, and one element is randomly picked, each element being “weighted” according to its initiative.
Once an element is picked (it can only be picked once by round, there is no “rate of fire” equivalent for melee), it has to pass a modified quality (=discipline, see below for modifiers) test on a dice with 10 faces (it must do its TQ or less). If it fails, it will not attack this turn.
Basically, in the log, you will see something like this :
14:10:51 (Reporting) *** Start of action # 5 1001191 Roman Cavalry vs 1002487 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry ***
[lots of useless lines]
14:10:51 (Reporting) Attacker failed to assault (Quality check failed)
14:10:51 (Reporting) *** End of action ***
If the unit is picked and pass this test, the element has a chance to hit, in percentage, of :
Modified TQ * Modified Assault Value * 0,5
Unfortunately for the element, the targets strike back
at the same time, with its own modified TQ * modified Assault * 0,5 chance to hit.
Modified TQ is basically base TQ + terrain bonuses + leader bonuses.
Modified assault value is base assault + lack of cohesion maluses + lack of strength points malus.
Note that leader bonuses work that way :
The relevant stat (offensive of defensive) of the leader of the stack is compared to the relevant stat of the guy of the other side for the relevant stat. Each difference in point gives a 10% bonus, but no negative value is possible.
The same thing is done for the leaders merged with the units, if any. In 1.01, the 10% bonus for unit leader should become 5%.
In our case, the relevant stat will always be offensive.
The result is added.
So let’s do the check for some Hellenistic infantry fighting the Roman Cavalry.
14:10:51 (Reporting) Attacker 1002484 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry health: 9 Cohesion:86
14:10:51 (Reporting) Defender 1001189 Roman Cavalry health: 5 Cohesion:58
14:10:51 (Reporting)
14:10:51 (Reporting) *** Start of action # 13 1002484 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry vs 1001189 Roman Cavalry ***
Calculation :
Control :
14:10:51 (Reporting) Assaulter value with leader tactical rating: 8.40
14:10:51 (Reporting) Assaulter final Assault value: 10.00
14:10:51 (Reporting) Attacker ToHit: 42.00 rolled a 42 scoring a hit Defender remaining Health&Cohesion 1 / 38
14:10:51 (Reporting) Receiver final TQ value: 7.70
14:10:51 (Reporting) Receiver final Assault value: 12.00
14:10:51 (Reporting) Defender ToHit: 46.20 rolled a 45 scoring a hit Attacker remaining Health&Cohesion 7 / 73
The calculations were correct.
If it hits its target, the unit inflicts the first number after “assault damage” in strength points, and the second in cohesion.
You might note that the losses do not perfectly match for cohesion. This is due to the fact that a unit that assault (or fire, actually) loses 3 in cohesion “automatically”. A unit on the receiving end of melee loses 1 in cohesion (which for some reason is calculated “after” the “Defender remaining Health&Cohesion” you see above). The Greek element has thus lost 13 in cohesion in this combat (10 from the cavalry, 3 due to its assault).
Now there are a few things to note that can impact damage :
-
First shock
An element that attacks in melee for the first time in the
battle get a bonus depending on the unit. Most “civilized” infantry have none, barbarians get +20%, Roman cavalry get +50%
For instance (I had to run another battle) :
15:20:45 (Reporting) Attacker 1001190 Roman Cavalry health: 5 Cohesion:61
15:20:45 (Reporting) Defender 1002485 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry health: 10 Cohesion:86
15:20:45 (Reporting) *** Start of action # 7 1001190 Roman Cavalry vs 1002485 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry ***
(…)
15:20:45 (Reporting) Assaulter value first shock coefficient: 150.00
15:20:45 (Reporting) Attacker DmgDone: 0 CohDone: 0 AsltDmgDone 2 AsltCohDone: 10
15:20:45 (Reporting) Attacker ToHit: 52.80 rolled a 25 scoring a hit Defender remaining Health&Cohesion 8 / 71
If you count, the cavalry inflicted 15 cohesion damage instead of only 10, so +50% That’s the first shock bonus.
-
Charge and Disruption
Many cavalry can attempt to “disrupt” or “charge” (heavy cavalry), depending on the element. This requires to roll a 30 (charge) or 20 (disruption)-sides dice under the discipline of the cavalry element. The discipline is modified by the offensive rating of the leader of the unit, or half the offensive rating of the leader of the stack if there is no unit leader. The chance to charge is also lowered by the entrenchment level of the target, and by its cohesion (which is good, see below).
Now a small point : Disrupt and Charge is mixed up in the AJE database as of 1.00 : heavy cavalry should disrupt (which is better) while normal cavalry should charge, but actually it is the opposite.
Given the high discipline of the Romans, the disruption is a given in most cases.
In case of success, the unit inflicts 50% more damage.
For instance :
15:20:45 (Reporting) Roman Cavalry is disrupting! That’s a charge !
15:20:45 (Reporting) Attacker targeting 1002482 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry
15:20:45 (Reporting) Attacker 1001188 Roman Cavalry health: 5 Cohesion:61
15:20:45 (Reporting) Defender 1002482 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry health: 10 Cohesion:85
(…)
15:20:45 (Reporting) Countercharge 1002482 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry failed forming square. (we will see that later)
(…)
15:20:45 (Reporting) Assaulter value first shock coefficient: 150.00
15:20:45 (Reporting) Attacker DmgDone: 0 CohDone: 0 AsltDmgDone 2 AsltCohDone: 10
15:20:45 (Reporting) Attacker ToHit: 52.80 rolled a 34 scoring a hit Defender remaining Health&Cohesion 7 / 62
As you can see, the Phalanx received 85 – 62 = 23 cohesion damage and 3 health damage.
The calculation is the following :
-
Counter-charge
A counter-charge is the reaction of a defender (limited to “closed formation” infantry : cohorts, phalanxes, triarii…) when under a charge or a disruption. This requires to roll a 20-sides dice under the discipline of the cavalry element. The discipline is modified by the defensive rating of the leader of the unit, or half the defensive rating of the leader of the stack if there is no unit leader. You multiply this by the cohesion / max cohesion ratio, and you got your chance to succeed.
If the counter-charge is successful, the effect of the charge is cancelled and the defender got a bonus of +100% damage if it hits the charger.
Bottomline : Given that the minimum discipline of units with “counter-charge” is 7 and goes up to 10 without experience, they have more than 50% of chance of succeeding in their counter-charge. Given that they also have a minimum Assault Damage of 3 – your cavalry and its 5 health points is going to be slaughtered if you use it against those elements.
-
Impact of Health & Cohesion
The rule for the impact of health is the same for melee and for fire.
Basically, for health :
- If your element has less than 50% of health, it fights at 75% of its capacity
- If your element has less than 25% of health, it fights at 50% of its capacity
Let’s take an example :
14:10:51 (Reporting) Attacker 1002485 Hellenistic Heavy Infantry health: 10 Cohesion:84
14:10:51 (Reporting) Defender 1001191 Roman Cavalry health: 1 Cohesion:36
The Cavalry has 1 in health out of a maximum of 5, so it has a -50% malus (20% of its capacity).
Check :
14:10:51 (Reporting) Receiver value with cohesion: 12.00
14:10:51 (Reporting) Receiver value with penalty from losses: 6.00
[As for cohesion – I am waiting for more testing, so I will expand this]
-
Impact of stances
Well, finally, you wondered what the stance were for ? Well, the chances to hit (range and melee) are increased or decreased according to the stance of each side.
Here is what their effects are :
- All-out attack gives you +35% of chance to hit the first round, but gives your opponent +50% the first round. These 2 bonus will slowly go down as turns pass.
- Conservative attacks will give -30% chance to hit to both sides starting on the 3rd round,
- Feint attack – 70% starting from the second round
- Defend at all costs gives +10% to both sides
All other stances give no specific bonus.