Legacy of Rome will be released next week, so this dev diary will be the last of this cycle. Doomdark is busy hammering away at the game, so this week the honor of writing it falls to me. As he said last time, we'll finish off with some of the unique decisions, events and mechanics we've added to the Byzantine Empire in the DLC. Note that the following stuff is for the DLC, not the free 1.07 patch.

Succession in Byzantium works the same as in the rest of Europe, except for one thing. Children born to an emperor during his reign will get the ”Born in the Purple” trait, which gives them a stronger succession claim than any older siblings born before their parents ascended the throne. If you, as emperor, still want your gifted firstborn son as your heir instead of his snotnosed younger brother who had the good fortune of being born during your reign, infanticide is not your only option. Granting the Despot honorary title to your firstborn will rank him the same as if he had the Purple trait, and given his seniority in age, he will become your heir again.

View attachment LoR_02_ERE_Events.jpg

Ambitious emperors will no doubt try to reclaim some of Rome's former glory by restoring the Empire's lost territory. If they or their imperial vassals hold certain provinces, they will have the opportunity to restore the Roman Empire. This decision essentially signifies that the West has no choice but to accept the Byzantines as the true heirs of Rome's legacy. You will get a new title (complete with a new flag, of course), and the rulers of a restored Rome always get the ”Augustus” trait, which gives a slight boost to vassal relations. If you wish it, there is a decision to move your capital to Rome, though the city scarcely compares to Constantinople in this era so you will likely have to invest a lot of gold and time to rebuild it.

Another major decision, of course, is to mend the Great Schism between the Catholic and Orthodox churches. You will need to reunite the Pentarchy (Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria and Rome) under Byzantine and Orthodox rule and accumulate a great deal of piety. When this decision is taken, Catholicism will become a heresy and Catholic rulers across Europe will have to decide whether to convert or not. A few will refuse, and Europe will likely be plagued by religious unrest for some time, but the first step has now been taken to unite Christendom under a single church.

View attachment LoR_01_ERE_Events.jpg

As you have probably seen, Byzantine rulers can elect to blind or castrate their prisoners. This can be an efficient way of permanently crippling your rivals without executing them outright. Have an obnoxious brother that covets your throne? If he is blinded or castrated, he will be removed from the imperial succession, and you will have one less pretender to worry about. Just don't expect him to like you much afterwards.

Castrated rivals aside, eunuchs played an important role at the Byzantine imperial court, and from time to time one of them will distinguish himself enough to be brought to your attention. This eunuch will be very loyal to your ruler and quite skilled in his chosen field. When other lords turn their backs on you, you will usually still be able to depend on his service, whether it's as a skilled general or a gifted spymaster.

Other events you can expect to see are triumphs being held when you emerge victorious from decisive wars, unruly Varangians in the capital, Hippodrome races and much more.

View attachment LoR_03_ERE_Events.jpg

Finally, let me stress that this does not mean that we have created a supercharged Byzantine Empire that will always go on to dominate Europe as the Romans did before them. Skilled and dedicated players will be able to stage a miraculous recovery and recreate the borders of the Roman Empire and maybe even hold it all together afterwards, but we have naturally taken care not to upset the balance of the game. Just wanted to put that out there.

 

[Dr_Vile]

One thing about Pentarchy- it's about conquering those 5 cities and using decision? Shouldn;t it be complicated a little more? Let's say like that:
Byz/RE captures Rome, completing Pentarchy requirements. Pope and his court flees to strongest Catholic country-let's say HRE. HRE gets some positive modifier incresing their internal relations (so Emperor don't have to worry about vassals revolt), pope gets some province inside HRE. HRE (as country- not emperor only) gets CB against Byz/RE to reclaim whole Northern Italy. Byz/RE gets CB against HRE (country which have Pope "inside"). If they win- HRE is dismantled, Catholicism becomes heresy and so on. But:
-If HRE decides to reclaim Northern Italy it's Crusade- so every catholic state will join probably.
-If Byz/RE decides to attack HRE- every single one Catholic ruler gets Call to Arms. It's all or nothing in the long run.


I think that such "final battle" (or rather war) for Europe and RE heritage would make game much more interesting.

In truth, if the Restoration CB is similar to a Holy War CB, then presumably such a battle would take place when the ERE moves in for the kill on Rome. After losing such a battle, wouldn't Catholic Europe loose all legitimacy? If you can't hold onto the seat of your religion, and now the old structure of the Church has sprung up again with a new Patriarch in Rome, what exactly makes you a legitimate authority?

To expand, I agree with the last point that a universal 'Defense of the Church' Call-to-Arms would be rather awesome for both this and Muslims invading Rome.

 

[Mixxer5]

Its not meant to make sense, its there to be fun like the fictional empires that fulfill a game role not a story one and for the people who have asked for it constantly since the game came out.

I'm just saying that it should be more complicated to degrade major religion to heresy than by gathering piety and conquering weakly defended Rome (3 provinces, no allies... please). It's much more satisfactory than by clicking.

@up: Same as above- conquering Rome is piece of cake basically. Not much of a challenge.

 

[Orinsul]

I'm just saying that it should be more complicated to degrade major religion to heresy than by gathering piety and conquering weakly defended Rome (3 provinces, no allies... please). It's much more satisfactory than by clicking.

Im guessing theres unstated requirements for gold/prestige/etc costs rather than just holding acouple provinces and if not, then who knows how it works but probably Paradox has thought it out, generally they do alright.

 

[Dr_Vile]

In an international age as were talking about, that wouldnt mean stamping all cultures into one though. A small thing to show a trend in fashion towards constaninople, not fathers suddenly seeing their sons as foreignors as suddenly they change completely.
Especially given greeks are getting a graphical culture DLC, would a culture representing italians and greeks united use greek or italian graphic culture? Id say from any perspective itd be best to keep them apart. A melting pot culture for something that specific to one playthrough just seems a mod thing, to me atleast anyway.

But isn't this exactly what happened during the rise of the Roman Empire (almost called it the Old Roman Empire there, already getting into the spirit)? The Romans conquered and whilst some people remained true to the traditions of their forefathers, others (mostly those in power) began to adopt Roman ideas/fashions/tastes.
And I'm sure I read somewhere that the graphical DLC was a mediterranean one, encompassing both Greek and Italian. Maybe that's just wishful thinking, though.

 

[NezzeOne]

I'm just saying that it should be more complicated to degrade major religion to heresy than by gathering piety and conquering weakly defended Rome (3 provinces, no allies... please). It's much more satisfactory than by clicking.

@up: Same as above- conquering Rome is piece of cake basically. Not much of a challenge.

You also neglect that Byzantium has to carve a bloody swath through the Levant and Egypt. If a resurgent Byzantium can -beat back- the Muslim hordes that trounced it thoroughly only three centuries ago, what hope does Catholic Europe have?

 

[drususnero]

I fear this DLC turns the game finally from "Crusader King 2" to "CIVIL WAR KING 1"

But I will buy it. Sounds good!

 

[Faeelin]

I like how people were up in arms about formable empires but a Greek speaking guy sacking Rome and being recognized as the roman emperor while ending the schism because he controls some cities in the middle east is totally okay.

 

[Joel M Bridge]

Is there focus on court titles for byzantine now?

As well there couple ways byzantine men can gain throne through taking the city of men desire get declare by senate , being made co-emperor, is any feature like that in the game?

 

[Sleight of Hand]

And I'm sure I read somewhere that the graphical DLC was a mediterranean one, encompassing both Greek and Italian. Maybe that's just wishful thinking, though.

And African. Maybe other cultures, too. We don't know yet, as no one is talking.

 

[Mixxer5]

Im guessing theres unstated requirements for gold/prestige/etc costs rather than just holding acouple provinces and if not, then who knows how it works but probably Paradox has thought it out, generally they do alright.

Well- Pentarchy in EU3 was designed by Paradox and it wasn't much of a challenge itself (initial reconquering of Byz territory was). And playing as Byz about 1180 I had more money than I could spend, 10k prestige and 5k piety. How big requirements would have to be to hurt me then anyhow?

 

[Faeelin]

You also neglect that Byzantium has to carve a bloody swath through the Levant and Egypt. If a resurgent Byzantium can -beat back- the Muslim hordes that trounced it thoroughly only three centuries ago, what hope does Catholic Europe have?

In my world, the Ottomans managed to overrun most of the Middle East but Catholic Europe remianed mostly intact. What happened in yours?

 

[Mixxer5]

You also neglect that Byzantium has to carve a bloody swath through the Levant and Egypt. If a resurgent Byzantium can -beat back- the Muslim hordes that trounced it thoroughly only three centuries ago, what hope does Catholic Europe have?

Europe is pretty strong in most of my games- I suppose that France, HRE, Scandinavia, Poland, England and Hungary would give me pretty good stop. And losing such war as Byz/RE would mean that I've to spent all those money, prestige and piety again.

 

[Dr_Vile]

I like how people were up in arms about formable empires but a Greek speaking guy sacking Rome and being recognized as the roman emperor while ending the schism because he controls some cities in the middle east is totally okay.

Because this is so much more plausible, obviously!!!
Though for the record, I always felt the empires should have been titular. But c'est la vie.

And African. Maybe other cultures, too. We don't know yet, as no one is talking.

Why won't they talk to us, damnit?!?

 

[Faeelin]

Anyway, I don't mean to be too critical, but it really sounds like this isn't a Byzantine mod so much as a mod for everyone who's in love with ROMANS. The DLC doesn't reflect the centralized nature of the Roman state, or the role of Byzantine aristocrats in the society; it still treats them like essentially feudal levies. At the same time, Because the game treats the Byzantines as a fuedal state you can't really replicate why Manzikert was so disastrous for the empire; etc. But instead we get a Roman Empire.

 

[Helios Ra]

Thanks for the answer about Catholics. Maybe some future DLC will give them that option?

They will not be getting a crusade equivalent, but the Byzantine ruler gets a new "Imperial Reconquest" casus belli against former Roman territory. This works much like Holy War CB, but it can be used against fellow Christians.

Also, yes, those things are open for modding.

How is "Former Roman Provinces" defined? Does it extend to Rome under Trajan? Or Byzantium at its height (Justinian?)? Or some artificial composite?

 

[Orinsul]

Europe is pretty strong in most of my games- I suppose that France, HRE, Scandinavia, Poland, England and Hungary would give me pretty good stop. And losing such war as Byz/RE would mean that I've to spent all those money, prestige and piety again.

Youd guess they would all stay with the heresy, so the change will mean nothing, if it becomes a heresy just by adding parent=orthodox to catholic then western europe will go on exactly as is but with the decision to adopt the parent religion of orthodoxy hanging around. Probably kings wouldnt change on the intial event unless by the empire
I mean if catholics still have a pope and half the map, what does it matter if in game mechanic terms its a heresy? Basically, as we dont know what it 'becoming a heresy' means its not worth worrying about.
And once its worth worrying about, itll also be moddable so basically, no worries

 

[Dr_Vile]

How is "Former Roman Provinces" defined? Does it extend to Rome under Trajan? Or Byzantium at its height (Justinian?)? Or some artificial composite?

I'd hope Trajan, since then I can start taking chunks out of Spain & Britain. The Pope can keep Scandinavia.

 

[Ciccillo Rre]

On the culture of the Roman Empire issue: most likely we won't see any fantasy or "extinct" (loosely speaking) culture in vanilla, so we have to stick to what we have.

Please consider that, already in late Imperial Roman times, the elite used to speak Latin and the masses a corrupted, easy and "vulgar" version of the language, that used to vary as a continuum across the western provinces. These would eventually develop into the modern "dialects" or regional language of today Romance-speaking countries, the politico-culturally dominant of which would eventually become the "standard" Italian, French, Occitan, Catalan, Castilian and Portuguese.

As today there are many variations and sub-languages of Italian, Castilian and so on, so it was in medieval and even roman times (with the difference that the medieval languages were, in fact, an intermediate stage between the vulgar Latin and the modern languages). Hence the use of a single Italian, or Castilian or Occitan culture in game is an abstraction.

In addition, just like in the late Roman times, classical Latin was still commonly used by the elite, like the Church, in the west.

Hence I do not see any "evolutionary-historical" reason not to pretend that the restored Roman Empire is just a natural continuation of the late actual Roman Empire. As in that one the dominant culture was the Italo-Latin one, so whatever Sleight of Hand thinks about offenses the Italian culture is still the best abstraction we have for such a continuation.

The issue I see is that in-game, it would be actually the Greeks those who would restore the Roman Empire (but what about if, say, a Norman dynasty has taken over the throne?). This makes some sort of melting pot mechanic fascinating, but how plausible is that Italians all of a sudden would lose their Latin heritage for returning part of the Roman empire (with the exception of those southern areas with a very archaic Greek heritage)? I very much doubt it. The most I would allow is a spread or classical Latin- or Greek-derived names among Italians at the expense of Germanic-derived names - much typical of the Middle Ages - like Aldobrandino, Azzo and Sichelgaita, in a kind of "soft" melting pot, but we can discuss this.

Don't forget that at the times of the "real" Roman Empire, the Latin language greatly influenced Greek (and vice-versa) but it never supplanted it with the exception of peninsular southern Italy. The inverse process looks even more unlikely to me. As much as the Greek emperors would adopt Latin titles and styles to gain legitimacy in the West ('Augustus', as in the DLC).

All the fuss about a "Roman" or a "Nova-Roman" (actual language should require "Novoroman") is just plain wrong and I sincerely hope it will never be implemented.

 

[Mixxer5]

Anyway, I don't mean to be too critical, but it really sounds like this isn't a Byzantine mod so much as a mod for everyone who's in love with ROMANS. The DLC doesn't reflect the centralized nature of the Roman state, or the role of Byzantine aristocrats in the society; it still treats them like essentially feudal levies. At the same time, Because the game treats the Byzantines as a fuedal state you can't really replicate why Manzikert was so disastrous for the empire; etc. But instead we get a Roman Empire.

Yep. But-while I'd love to have it all pictured in game- I'm still gonna buy this DLC. Hopefully by modding it'll be more of heavily centralized empire and less feudal one.

 

[RhoDaZZ]

Disappointing not to see a change from the feudal system (one can hope in CK3, perhaps), but I'll definitely buy the DLC for the blinding, eunuchs and schism-ending anyway.