Hello everybody, and welcome to the first development diary for Europa Universalis IV. We've been working on this project for quite a long time, with the first design dicussions starting not long after Divine Wind was released. During last year we spent a lot of time working on the design concepts, and late in 2011, the core team was assembled, and actual development started.

Earlier this month, we announced the game at Gamescom, and showed a minor subset of the features for the game. Today we start a series of weekly development diaries where we'll go into detail about the game. Our goal is to release an entry each friday, with breaks for holidays.

The subject of todays diary is 'Why do Europa Universalis IV and what is our goal with the game?'.

Why are we working on a sequel to Europa Universalis?

Well, first of all, the team we are all major fans of this series, with me personally being the core guy behind the original game, back in the late 90's, and the others being involved for quite a lot of time on it. We are a group who love playing Europa Universalis (EU), both in singleplayer and in multiplayer together, so you could definitely say it is the favorite series for the people working on Europa Universalis IV.

Originally EU1 started development in 1997, EU2 in 2001, EU3 started in 2005, so we were overdue a new take on the genre. During those years we've accumulated quite a lot of ideas, and discarded far more. We've come to understand what Europa Universalis is about for a lot of people, and what it means for ourselves.

One important thing though, is that while we had lots of cool and interesting ideas for EU, we simply couldn't just add them all in, as the game would become an unwieldly mass. EU has a complexity level we do not want to dramatically increase and while improving the interface can reduce it a fair bit, it is a very fine balance when it comes to designing a game.

So we took a step back and looked at what Europa Universalis was and what we wanted to do, and since its a new game, we had quite a large amount of flexibility. We could rewrite entire systems from scratch, and do some paradigm shifts. One such example is the complete removal of the old trade system with centers of trade, which was replaced with a new trade system with dynamic flow of trade. This flexibility has been a great benefit when it comes to designing the game.


So then, what is our goal with Europa Universalis IV?

In all our games we aim to have believable mechanics. When playing a Grand Strategy game it should be about immersion and suspension of disbelief. You should feel like you are playing a country in the time period. This is something all our EU games have managed to achieve, and it is very important that EU4 will have that same feeling.

The game should, as we mentioned earlier, not increase its complexity levels dramatically. We are happy with the level of complexity the Eu-series has, and want to keep it at this level.

One of the most important aspects of EU4 is to make an interface that is both easier to get into, and less hassle for an expert user. This a fine line to balance, and we are rather happy with the interfaces we have done so far for EU4.

We also want to make sure that players feel that this is a new game, that this is worth paying money for, and this comes from new mechanics and better interfaces. With detailed dev-diaries every week until release, we are rather confident that you'll all be excited about it when its finally ready.

So, now we've just talked about history and visions, I'll try to clarify a confusion about sandbox, historical events and plausibility. Europa Universalis have always been about historically plausible outcomes, as I mentioned over six years ago , and EU4 is no different in that regard. No determenism or full sandbox will ever be in the EU series. In EU3 we scrapped historical events and added lots and lots of system and mechanics to create more plausible gameplay. While we are continuing on that concept and keep making more plausible mechanics, we are in EU4 doing something new...

We'e adding in Dynamic Historical Events. We'll have more of those than we had historical in EU2, and together with a fair amount of other planned features, this is creating an even more immersive type of gameplay, where countries feel far more unique than they did in any previous game in the series. A 'dynamic historical event', or DHE for short, is an event that has some rather rigid triggers that they feel plausible to happen with, ie, no Spanish Bankruptcy just because its a certain date, but events that tie into mechanics rather heavily.

The example I want to talk about is War of the Roses for England. At any point of time, before 1500, if England lacks an heir, then the chain for War of the Roses can start, which creates a lot of interesting situations for the player, as well as giving unique historical immersion.

Next week we'll talk more about the map, so enjoy for now!

 

[Sotof]

And to those being pissed off, let me get this right? You're pissed that there wasn't enough country-specific attention in EU3; EU4 is getting more but mainly in the majors, and you're pissed about that? Going from very few country-specific events to lots and lots should be a change in the right direction for you, shouldn't it?

Hint: It's not the same people.

 

[Svip]

Hey, who do you think you are that you can just insult people? If you are so braindead that you cannot understand my point that in my opinion (you also seem too ignorant to understand that people can have different opinions), mechanics are more important than events, then perhaps it is time to stop.

Your point about mechanics being more important than events was covered in a suggestion that there would not be any mechanics at all. It was hard to get to. Your constant teasing and suggestive insulting seems to suggest that you have the belief that there weren't going to be historical mechanics in the game, as they would all be replaced by events.

As a game designer myself, I understand the important of interesting and dynamic mechanics, but I also understand how interesting special rules makes game play as well. And DHE is akin to special rules (i.e. rules specific to a certain thing, rather than a special situation).

Also, reported to mods. I don't come here to be insulted by some insecure poster who thinks he is someone special.

Then perhaps you should reconsider how you present your own arguments. This is probably why you are having an argument with everyone in this thread.

 

[flame7926]

Hey, who do you think you are that you can just insult people? If you are so braindead that you cannot understand my point that in my opinion (you also seem too ignorant to understand that people can have different opinions), mechanics are more important than events, then perhaps it is time to stop.

Also, reported to mods. I don't come here to be insulted by some insecure poster who thinks he is someone special.

You are making very big assumptions, with almost no information. He does make a point. You don't really have an opinion, just an unfounded assumption. Also, from what they have said, DHE's sound like they are just historical events with specific triggers, not something different from events mods have been adding for ages. Maybe a little bit more versatile.

 

[Tornadoli]

Then perhaps you should reconsider how you present your own arguments. This is probably why you are having an argument with everyone in this thread.

Actually, there are about as many people agreeing with me as disagreeing with me. Read the thread.

You are making very big assumptions, with almost no information. He does make a point. You don't really have an opinion, just an unfounded assumption. Also, from what they have said, DHE's sound like they are just historical events with specific triggers, not something different from events mods have been adding for ages. Maybe a little bit more versatile.

And in your opinion, my opinion that I don't really want to have some events, or at least not much focus on them, is not a worthy opinion?

 

[flame7926]

And in your opinion, my opinion that I don't really want to have some events, or at least not much focus on them, is not a worthy opinion?

No, I don't have a problem with your opinion. You seem to be assuming, from many posts, that Paradox is putting a lot of focus on these events, and not very much on mechanics. That the events take the place of mechanics, and that not very many at all will be added. That's what I don't like. I don't care if you want events or mechanics.

 

[Svip]

And in your opinion, my opinion that I don't really want to have some events, or at least not much focus on them, is not a worthy opinion?

Yes, but that is not what you said. Your opinion about the game is already based on very little information. I don't know the significance of DHEs either. Note that there is a difference between your opinion about the game (which seems to indicate that the game is going to be void of historical mechanics) and your opinion about historical mechanics over events. The latter is a valid opinion, the former is based on very little information.

And there is nothing suggesting that either is mutual exclusive.

 

[Tornadoli]

No, I don't have a problem with your opinion. You seem to be assuming, from many posts, that Paradox is putting a lot of focus on these events, and not very much on mechanics. That the events take the place of mechanics, and that not very many at all will be added. That's what I don't like. I don't care if you want events or mechanics.

Yes, but that is not what you said. Your opinion about the game is already based on very little information. I don't know the significance of DHEs either. Note that there is a difference between your opinion about the game (which seems to indicate that the game is going to be void of historical mechanics) and your opinion about historical mechanics over events. The latter is a valid opinion, the former is based on very little information.

And there is nothing suggesting that either is mutual exclusive.

Uhm, yes, there isn't much information yet, but it's clear that the DHEs WILL take the place of mechanics... why else would they include the DHEs? Johan said there will be many events. The example he gave was the War of the Roses. If there was a mechanic for those kind of wars, why exactly would they add DHEs? That, in my opinion, is what Paradox should do: program mechanics to model what they intend DHEs to model.

 

[Svip]

Uhm, yes, there isn't much information yet, but it's clear that the DHEs WILL take the place of mechanics... why else would they include the DHEs? Johan said there will be many events. The example he gave was the War of the Roses. If there was a mechanic for those kind of wars, why exactly would they add DHEs? That, in my opinion, is what Paradox should do: program mechanics to model what they intend DHEs to model.

Yeah, but that is if you remove a few words from the description that Johan provided. He specifically mentioned certain mechanics that would trigger these DHEs. The historical mechanics are still there, but if certain conditions are met by these historical mechanics, a DHE will launch. It doesn't mean a civil war will be unique to England, it just means there will be more event flavour when it happens to England under certain conditions.

The historical mechanics cannot replace DHEs either. If you had to make mechanics that would produce War of the Roses without DHEs, then you would have to create an extreme high number of mechanics, incredibly detail into the game and more things I'm afraid to consider, to even allow for such an event.

Using a combination of DHEs and historical mechanics is a decent middle ground. Because it doesn't go the sandbox way, where to create conditions like DHEs can help with would require an enormous amount of mechanics that would simply be too hard to comprehend for the player (and I guess the developer as well). And on the other hand, it doesn't go full deterministic, because you still have the historical mechanics that allow for different ways to play each country.

You reach a critical mass with historical mechanics, where it becomes improbable and practically impossible to continue, and that is where you create DHEs. And that is what I assume DHEs are for.

 

[Haresus]

Hmm.. Interesting. Keep the dev diarys posted, and make this game a great one.

 

[flame7926]

Uhm, yes, there isn't much information yet, but it's clear that the DHEs WILL take the place of mechanics... why else would they include the DHEs? Johan said there will be many events. The example he gave was the War of the Roses. If there was a mechanic for those kind of wars, why exactly would they add DHEs? That, in my opinion, is what Paradox should do: program mechanics to model what they intend DHEs to model.

I don't think thats clear at all. They are there for historical content and flavor. Lots of people want more flavor, which the events add. They would add them so something feels unique and different for each country. That is really lacking in EU3. That is a very specific kind of war. There could be a mechanic for a more general civil war, but for something specific, I think the majority of players want specific flavor and content.

 

[Don_Quigleone]

Uhm, yes, there isn't much information yet, but it's clear that the DHEs WILL take the place of mechanics... why else would they include the DHEs? Johan said there will be many events. The example he gave was the War of the Roses. If there was a mechanic for those kind of wars, why exactly would they add DHEs? That, in my opinion, is what Paradox should do: program mechanics to model what they intend DHEs to model.

We still have about 45 weeks of Dev Diaries to enumerate all the mechanics Paradox has planned...

 

[SpawnRaider]

Will you guys implement a system that better simulates the unique situation between poland and lithuania at the time (Also including the government)?

 

[unmerged(63836)]

You reach a critical mass with historical mechanics, where it becomes improbable and practically impossible to continue, and that is where you create DHEs. And that is what I assume DHEs are for.

Dynamic Events would be better than Dynamic Historical Events (there can be both though, but devs seems to rather concentrate on DHE). For example:

DHE: War of the Roses - civil war, triggered for ENG only, if there's no heir, before 1500

DE: Succession Civil War of "country_name" - triggered for any monarchy without heir, with strong aristocracy slider, with low prestige, etc.

First one is fine - it gives flavour, and since game starts in 1444 War of the Roses is likely to happen. But that's it - it would never fire again, or if there's a heir it would not fire at all.

Second one is by far more elastic, as it can fire multiple times, for multiple countries.

Which philosophy would me more productive? Historical events that rarely fire, or many generic events with elaborate triggers, that may fire even for such countries as Ulm, that would lack in DHE's?

Of course, if paradox is making tons of generic event in addition to tons of DHE's (so far they're only boasting about DHE's which are more numerous than EU2 events), then it would be absolutely great.

 

[Svip]

Dynamic Events would be better than Dynamic Historical Events (there can be both though, but devs seems to rather concentrate on DHE). For example:

DHE: War of the Roses - civil war, triggered for ENG only, if there's no heir, before 1500

DE: Succession Civil War of "country_name" - triggered for any monarchy without heir, with strong aristocracy slider, with low prestige, etc.

First one is fine - it gives flavour, and since game starts in 1444 War of the Roses is likely to happen. But that's it - it would never fire again, or if there's a heir it would not fire at all.

Second one is by far more elastic, as it can fire multiple times, for multiple countries.

Which philosophy would me more productive? Historical events that rarely fire, or many generic events with elaborate triggers, that may fire even for such countries as Ulm, that would lack in DHE's?

I completely agree that DHEs should not washout DEs. But I have yet no reason to assume that Paradox aren't doing both. And seeing as they have already done plenty of the DEs for EU3 and other games, I'd imagine that they can copy some of those events to EU4 (of course alter them to fit new mechanics). The work and groundwork done for EU up until EU3: DW is not lost with EU4.

I assume they have a developer attached to making DHEs, while others do other stuff. At least in previous games, they used to have a developer focused on historical events, etc. (like one for flags in V2). Also, just because there is one assigned to it, doesn't mean this developer won't do other stuff, or other developers won't participate in its development.

But the fact that the first example of yours (the DHE) can only fire once is what give the game flavour. And if Paradox is willing to put this extra work into these, I welcome it. Because - as I have said - I have yet to see any reasoning that Paradox is not going to include DEs and other historical mechanics. DHEs seems to be an addition rather than a replacement.

Of course, if paradox is making tons of generic event in addition to tons of DHE's (so far they're only boasting about DHE's which are more numerous than EU2 events), then it would be absolutely great.

But they have only boasted about DHEs because it is the only real new thing to EU4 compared to EU3. It would be weird to open these Dev Dairies with something that already was in EU3, and it's still like it was in EU3!

 

[unmerged(63836)]

I completely agree that DHEs should not washout DEs. But I have yet no reason to assume that Paradox aren't doing both. And seeing as they have already done plenty of the DEs for EU3 and other games, I'd imagine that they can copy some of those events to EU4 (of course alter them to fit new mechanics). The work and groundwork done for EU up until EU3: DW is not lost with EU4.

I assume they have a developer attached to making DHEs, while others do other stuff. At least in previous games, they used to have a developer focused on historical events, etc. (like one for flags in V2). Also, just because there is one assigned to it, doesn't mean this developer won't do other stuff, or other developers won't participate in its development.

But the fact that the first example of yours (the DHE) can only fire once is what give the game flavour. And if Paradox is willing to put this extra work into these, I welcome it. Because - as I have said - I have yet to see any reasoning that Paradox is not going to include DEs and other historical mechanics. DHEs seems to be an addition rather than a replacement.

But they have only boasted about DHEs because it is the only real new thing to EU4 compared to EU3. It would be weird to open these Dev Dairies with something that already was in EU3, and it's still like it was in EU3!

EU3 had very, very few significant generic events (lets not count silly stuff like 'poor quality wool' or 'comet sighted'), which resulted in quite boring and easy game, especially during peacetime. What I hope for is amount of complex generic events/chains similar to that of Magna Mundi, where a lot of stuff happens, even during peacetime. Stuff that makes perfect sense, never comes 'out of blue', no matter if you play Mali or Milan. You can have a challenging game full of elaborate events, that in the end becomes very plausible alternate history as compared to crazy vanilla EU3. All of that without DHE's (in most cases). I would like EU4 to be like that, and more.

 

[airpirate]

EU3 had very, very few significant generic events (lets not count silly stuff like 'poor quality wool' or 'comet sighted'), which resulted in quite boring and easy game, especially during peacetime. What I hope for is amount of complex generic events/chains similar to that of Magna Mundi, where a lot of stuff happens, even during peacetime. Stuff that makes perfect sense, never comes 'out of blue', no matter if you play Mali or Milan. You can have a challenging game full of elaborate events, that in the end becomes very plausible alternate history as compared to crazy vanilla EU3. All of that without DHE's (in most cases). I would like EU4 to be like that, and more.

Manga Mundi's complexity wasn't for everyone (me included), which is why Johan said that they wanted to keep the same level of complexity. Besides, generic events are still in, and thus mods similar to Manga Mundi could still probably be made. I see the DHE's as a way to keep the countries of Eu4 from feeling the same. While a civil war like the War of Roses could still happen outside of England, when it does happen in England it will provide a nice shot of extra flavor.

Also, we need unique versions of comet sighted for every country in the world. Why should an Ottoman comet be the same as a Russian comet ?

 

[Dafool]

Uhm, yes, there isn't much information yet, but it's clear that the DHEs WILL take the place of mechanics... why else would they include the DHEs? Johan said there will be many events. The example he gave was the War of the Roses. If there was a mechanic for those kind of wars, why exactly would they add DHEs? That, in my opinion, is what Paradox should do: program mechanics to model what they intend DHEs to model.

I'd very much like to see the source for this. It's not stated in this DD. In fact the DD seems to indicate the opposite. In other posts and discussions we've already seen new gameplay mechanics introduced. So where exactly are you pulling this certainty from?

 

[unmerged(63836)]

Manga Mundi's complexity wasn't for everyone (me included), which is why Johan said that they wanted to keep the same level of complexity. Besides, generic events are still in, and thus mods similar to Manga Mundi could still probably be made. I see the DHE's as a way to keep the countries of Eu4 from feeling the same. While a civil war like the War of Roses could still happen outside of England, when it does happen in England it will provide a nice shot of extra flavor.

Also, we need unique versions of comet sighted for every country in the world. Why should an Ottoman comet be the same as a Russian comet ?

Well, yeah - it took me years of playing EU1, EU2, and vanilla EU3, until it became easy and boring for me enough to switch to Magna Mundi. But EU4 not necessarily has to be that more difficult or complex - they just should make equal amount of generic events, so that game becomes less boring in case of obscure country, or in case of playing as land-based absolutist England, or peace-loving republic of Russia (when tons of carefully written DHE's won't fire).

 

[takedown47]

Is EU2 worth buying?

 

[Svip]

EU3 had very, very few significant generic events (lets not count silly stuff like 'poor quality wool' or 'comet sighted'), which resulted in quite boring and easy game, especially during peacetime. What I hope for is amount of complex generic events/chains similar to that of Magna Mundi, where a lot of stuff happens, even during peacetime. Stuff that makes perfect sense, never comes 'out of blue', no matter if you play Mali or Milan. You can have a challenging game full of elaborate events, that in the end becomes very plausible alternate history as compared to crazy vanilla EU3. All of that without DHE's (in most cases). I would like EU4 to be like that, and more.

Sad as it is, that Magna Mundi never amounted to anything (well, besides the mod, obviously). I was looking forward to that. But on the other hand, I do not want EU4 to be a replacement for Magna Mundi. I enjoy EU for its 'simplicity' (obviously a relative term) compared to Magna Mundi. And Johan have already stated that they are not going to take concepts created for Magna Mundi and put it in EU4. And if they do, it will purely be coincidental.

I don't want EU4 to be like Magna Mundi. That would remove Magna Mundi's raison d'être. I don't want that. I want choice rather than all games being the same.