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I can't wait for this game, i hope it will be with the some kind of military depth as in HOI3 :cool:

For me this is the key; if they manage to model the depth and the logistics of Napoleonic land warfare; this will be a great game

Once again I highlight, the game needs few, decisive battles instead of dozens of mini battles (like in EU3)

I would also like to see fog of war/ cavalry needed for recon

Edit: and a slower pace in war in general; it was very unrealisticaly to start a war in day 1 and start marching in full force at the same minute. Just marshalling the army should take some time
 
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Johan,

Terrific news. This is one of the most fascinating periods in human history and Napoleon's career probably the greatest (in Europe) since late antiquity. Real supply lines would be quite welcome, particularly if they made their way over to other games...

My only concern is the timeframe. If we're following the career of Napoleon, and we're confined to Europe, why on Earth begin after Austerlitz and Trafalgar? The War of the Third Coalition is the most exciting chapter in Napoleon's story, and much that immediately preceded it (the Coronation in 1804, the Peace of Amiens in 1802 and its failure in 1803, the naval mobilization at Boulogne, the return to power of Pitt the Younger in 1804, Czar Paul's absurd love for the Knights of Malta, and, above all, the execution of the Duc D'Enghein) determined the course of the next decade. Even beginning in 1802, after the Peace of Amiens, would be preferable without opening up some of the craziness of earlier start dates. Why not give the Russian and Austrian players an opportunity to reform their armies before Austerlitz? Why give Britain an all but automatic immunity to invasion?

Obviously, I'd love to start in 1789, but I can see why, given the focus on Napoleon, his career has to be assured. Why not start in 1797, then, with Napoleon in command of the Army of Italy? Or, at least, in 1798. So much was decided by the Egyptian campaign and the Battle of the Nile that it would be a shame not to replay it for other outcomes. What if L'Orient and the other French battleships were not destroyed? What if Brueys, and not Monsieur Villeneuve, had overseen the French fleet between 1802 and 1805? What if Napoleon hadn't sacrificed one of his finest generals-Kleber-and thirty thousand veterans to Egypt?

I know it's a delicate balance, but 1805 seems far too late in the game.
 
Johan,

Terrific news. This is one of the most fascinating periods in human history and Napoleon's career probably the greatest (in Europe) since late antiquity. Real supply lines would be quite welcome, particularly if they made their way over to other games...

My only concern is the timeframe. If we're following the career of Napoleon, and we're confined to Europe, why on Earth begin after Austerlitz and Trafalgar? The War of the Third Coalition is the most exciting chapter in Napoleon's story, and much that immediately preceded it (the Coronation in 1804, the Peace of Amiens in 1802 and its failure in 1803, the naval mobilization at Boulogne, the return to power of Pitt the Younger in 1804, Czar Paul's absurd love for the Knights of Malta, and, above all, the execution of the Duc D'Enghein) determined the course of the next decade. Even beginning in 1802, after the Peace of Amiens, would be preferable without opening up some of the craziness of earlier start dates. Why not give the Russian and Austrian players an opportunity to reform their armies before Austerlitz? Why give Britain an all but automatic immunity to invasion?

Obviously, I'd love to start in 1789, but I can see why, given the focus on Napoleon, his career has to be assured. Why not start in 1797, then, with Napoleon in command of the Army of Italy? Or, at least, in 1798. So much was decided by the Egyptian campaign and the Battle of the Nile that it would be a shame not to replay it for other outcomes. What if L'Orient and the other French battleships were not destroyed? What if Brueys, and not Monsieur Villeneuve, had overseen the French fleet between 1802 and 1805? What if Napoleon hadn't sacrificed one of his finest generals-Kleber-and thirty thousand veterans to Egypt?

I know it's a delicate balance, but 1805 seems far too late in the game.

The 1805 scenario in Napoleon's Campaigns 1 started earlier in 1805, with the French still in camp around Boulogne and the Combined Fleet intact in Cadiz, I assume it will be the same here.
 
The 1805 scenario in Napoleon's Campaigns 1 started earlier in 1805, with the French still in camp around Boulogne and the Combined Fleet intact in Cadiz, I assume it will be the same here.
As the Battle of Austerlitz took place at the end of 1805, I guess it wouldn't be impossible to guess MotE starts before Austerlitz. Especially that ever since the boardgame Empires in Arms the various Nappy games have tended to start in January 1805 (off-topic: As you prolly know, PhilTib took the EiA rules and further developed them into the boardgame Europa Universalis, which then later there was versioned to computer by Paradox :) ).
 
I really hope the game will feature more elaborate management of officers than previous PDS titles.

Basically, from what I have read, military strategy in the Napoleonic era was very much like managing a modern football (soccer) team: know who plays best on what position and together with whom, know how to use the team as a whole but make sure key players can use their strengths in their role and so forth. Of course, there are more influences to it (logistics come to mind), but at least in how it is presented today, no other era in military history was as dependent on proper management of human resources and "talent" as the Napoleonic/Horse and Musket era. I'd love to see that represented in the game.
 
Whenever it begins in 1805, it's too late to change much of the course of the war, particularly for France. Also, to have an Austerlitz the moribund Russian army doesn't lose without time to reform would be kind of silly...
 
Whenever it begins in 1805, it's too late to change much of the course of the war, particularly for France. Also, to have an Austerlitz the moribund Russian army doesn't lose without time to reform would be kind of silly...
There's still a lot that could go wrong for France in the Third Coalition, Mack escaping the Maneuver of Ulm and uniting with Kutusov or Prussia entering the war would just be two obvious examples.
And there has been a lot of work in the last years by people like Peter Hofschröer to show that the backwardness between the armies of the Ancient Regime and the French in 1805-1807 is often exaggerated, fault for disasters like Austerlitz and Jena Auerstedt lies mostly with high command and not so much a lack of tactical capabilities.

If the start date is set early enough the Third Coalition might not even form in the first place, historically Russia wasn't willing to join a war unless Austria was on board too, relations with Britain were also very shaky.
And Vienna was very reluctant to get in a fight with France again, only when Napoleon formed the Kingdom of Italy and annexed several Italian dependencies like the Ligurian Republic and Britain agreed to pay subsidy were they willing to join another coalition.

And history after 1805 could still go into all kinds of ahistorical directions anyway.
 
D3m0,

Sure, and the game could start on the eve of Austerlitz or the morning of Trafalgar and go into all kinds of ahistorical directions if France or Britain loses.

But that's the fortune of war. I'd like to start early enough to fundamentally alter the nature of the war.

And I find the revisionism unconvincing. Napoleon was a genius, but much of the credit belongs to the Terror, the subsequent meritocracy* in the ranks, and the army reforms. There was as vast a difference in quality and organization between the French and Russian armies as between the phalanx and the manipole, although, granted, the Austrian reforms were further along.

To say it was the "high command" (to which I would add the regimental commanders and many junior officers, as well as structural problems such as poor communication and discipline) is very strange. What do you think the reforms were? Much of France's advantage was in the professionalization of its command structure.

*A meritocracy that permitted, for example, a surly artillery lieutenant from the gentry of Corsica to reach Brigadier at 24 and commander of the Army of Italy at 27.
 
Agree with the comments above about form. Some regiments would sometimes have a string of bad days, some were just made bad even if they came from areas which traditionally produced good units. It shouldn't just be "I'll build a whole load of Grenadier and Scots Guards Infantry regiments, some horse and some guns, make a super-stack under Wellington and stomp Napoleon".
 
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Agree with the comments above about form. Some regiments would sometimes have a string of bad days, some were just made bad even if they came from areas which traditionally produced good units. It shouldn't just be "I'll build a whole load of Grenadier and Scots Guards Infantry regiments, some horse and some guns, make a super-stack under Wellington and stomp Napoleon".

Heh. There should be a 'cream of the crop' effect for every unit-producing region. Since the game will cover such a short period, there really should be tight limits on the amount of 'elite' units you can recruit and maintain. Even places with famous soldiers can produce terrible fighters. Plus, if Napoleon kills all your Scots Guards you should have trouble finding replacements.
 
So why is this "A Europa Universalis Game"? Is that just attached to the title to sell more copies?

Well, previous titles to include "A Europa Universalis Game" (For the Glory, Crown of the North), were God awful and included the Europa name just to try and bolster their potential.

"Creating more franchises is not necessarily a good thing", i.e. it may be hard to sell this game otherwise. This doesn't necessarily mean that it will be bad, but rather it means they are not confident releasing it on its own.

It has nothing to do with EU other than the fact that it's in the same time-frame (which was the given explanation). If none of the actual mechanics are included, why include it in the title? It's misleading (which I guess may be the point).
 
If none of the actual mechanics are included, why include it in the title? It's misleading (which I guess may be the point).

Who said that it shares no features with EU? Of course it does, and it uses the same engine - so even though it will be different in many ways it will still look and feel familiar to anyone who's played EU.
 
D3m0,

Sure, and the game could start on the eve of Austerlitz or the morning of Trafalgar and go into all kinds of ahistorical directions if France or Britain loses.

But that's the fortune of war. I'd like to start early enough to fundamentally alter the nature of the war.

And I find the revisionism unconvincing. Napoleon was a genius, but much of the credit belongs to the Terror, the subsequent meritocracy* in the ranks, and the army reforms. There was as vast a difference in quality and organization between the French and Russian armies as between the phalanx and the manipole, although, granted, the Austrian reforms were further along.

It's not like the Russians made it easier for privates, NCOs and non-noble officiers to rise through the ranks during the wars. Becoming much more than an NCO as someone from a non-noble background was just as unlikely in 1808-1815 as it was in 1799-1807.
Same is true for the British army, which remained old fashioned throughout the war in a lot of ways.

I'm not denying that there was a difference, I just disagree that the whole situation in 1805 is so deterministic that anything but catastrophe for the Coalition can be ruled out.
The Russians performed some great military feats against the French in 1799, the retreat and rearguard actions from Braunau to Olmütz in 1805 was exemplary and the outcome of the Polish campaign in 1807 hang in the balance for quite some time.
All against the more experienced French soldiers and without a corps system.

To say it was the "high command" (to which I would add the regimental commanders and many junior officers, as well as structural problems such as poor communication and discipline) is very strange.

Why? Weyrothers flawed plan, the hasty work of the Russian general staff and Alexander overruling Kutusov were major contributors to why Austerlitz played out like it did.
The Russian officer corps remained almost untouched throughout the wars, and constant quarrels and rivalry between high ranking Generals also still was a problem in 1812-1815.


What do you think the reforms were? Much of France's advantage was in the professionalization of its command structure.

In Russia army reforms limited themselves mostly to the adoption of Divisions and Corps, Arakcheevs reformation of the artillery and infantry equipment and the renewal of the general staff under Mikhailovich Volkonsky and von Toll.
Things like the heavier use of light infantry and deployment and manoeuvre in attack columns were in principle already adopted in 1805-1807.
One of the biggest differences between the Russian army in 1812-1815 and 1805-1807 was simply that Generals, the officer corps and the privates were much more experienced after a prolonged time of war against the French, Swedes, Ottomans and Persians.

Again I don't disagree that the French army of 1805 was superior in almost every aspect, just in how big the difference was.
Nor do I disagree that a earlier start date would mean more possibilities in how the game plays out (Peace of Amiens would be a favorite of mine too), although a start date before the 18 Brumaire seems unlikely. A game about the Napoleonic Wars where Napoleon might never come to power in the first place would probably not sit right with a lot of people. :)
Any start date between 1789 and 1799 would probably also require a lot of game mechanics that aren't currently planned by the dev team, seems more like something for a possible DLC to me.