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The CK2 To EU3 Converter Project

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Right, so the only problem is changing the value of a trade good, which I can't find a way to do in a save file, certainly not province-wise.

I suggest we just add up CK2 taxes for a weighting and see just how mad it gets. I suspect it won't be too bad, but if it does we can start thinking about more drastic measures. We won't have a good bearing until we do population, and maybe tech, and maybe trade goods.
 
From 1.05 de jure borders are changing during play.
I dont know how you set countries in eu3, but for now, the best way is to create borders as de jure of kingdoms, and if character have more than one kingdom title, set personal union for start in eu3 i think.
With exception of HRE for is very special in EU3.
 
gagaga1 said:
From 1.05 de jure borders are changing during play.
I dont know how you set countries in eu3, but for now, the best way is to create borders as de jure of kingdoms, and if character have more than one kingdom title, set personal union for start in eu3 i think.
With exception of HRE for is very special in EU3.
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Actually, it's better to go with province ownership in CK2 determining province ownership in EU3. De jure kingdoms will probably be a good start to determining cores, though (depending on how well the data is formatted in the save). And that's assuming all nations hold on to their vassals during conversion. We've not come to an agreement on that yet, and the current mechanics are just a placeholder to allow us to develop other bits.
 
DasGuntLord01 said:
Right, so the only problem is changing the value of a trade good, which I can't find a way to do in a save file, certainly not province-wise.

I suggest we just add up CK2 taxes for a weighting and see just how mad it gets. I suspect it won't be too bad, but if it does we can start thinking about more drastic measures. We won't have a good bearing until we do population, and maybe tech, and maybe trade goods.
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Well, my main point is that it's kinda pointless to try to convert taxes fairly while just leaving trade goods as they are in vanilla, since they are far more important. The fix for added imbalances is just a little bonus but that's not what it's about. I really do not know how you guys decide stuff, but the question to me is: Keep vanilla trade goods or convert them from CK2.

And actually, am I annoying? Because I have no idea what you guys are really working on right now but kinda won't stop talking about stuff you might not give a rat's arse about. So just tell me to shut up in that case.
 
Any input is desired.

The thing with trade goods is 1) There isn't a way to manipulate trade goods value, and 2) CK2 has no trade goods, so there's nothing to convert.

We can change the trade good to a more valuable different trade good, is that what you mean?

EDIT: We can increase the population in a province. This effects production, toll, and trade income, but also increases manpower.

EDIT: And, of course, any bonuses you get from population are capped at 100 000 people.
 
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DasGuntLord01 said:
The thing with trade goods is 1) There isn't a way to manipulate trade goods value, and 2) CK2 has no trade goods, so there's nothing to convert.

We can change the trade good to a more valuable different trade good, is that what you mean?
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Yeh. Basically what I would propose is to have every trade good rated in base tax equivalents by an expert panel. I trust our specialists to evaluate the "true" value of a trade good rather accurately. We then count the number of trade goods in the converted EU3 region to determine the exact amount of trade good pools that need to be redistributed (actually I'd propose two pools, one of them for the southern region but let's leave that out now for the sake of simplicity). Then:
1) We do that weighing conversion process for the provinces, the only difference being that it is done with the EU3 base tax sum + the EU3 trade good base tax equivalent sum.
2) In order of base tax every province receives a random trade good with the relative probability of that trade good's equivalent base tax value (until a trade good's pool is exhausted).
3) The trade good's equivalent base tax value is deducted from the EU3 base tax sum.

This way every province's base tax and trade good value should be comparable to its CK2 importance and super-rich provinces will have their tax base lowered (on average) since they tend to receive excellent trade goods. So shoot it down. :p
 
There's something about all this that I don't like. It seems too complicated and arbitrary. I think we should just do a weighting and be done with it. If I'm wrong, we can revisit it, and those provinces that loose the most base tax might get first dibs on, say, gold mines and population boosts.

And as a rule of thumb, we've always tried to avoid randomness or dice rolls wherever possible in our converters. I understand the appeal: you can use randomness to "decide" between a set of separate but equal things (and uncertainty is exciting), but it makes more sense to have the conversion rules be deterministic, set in stone, and well understood such that each save game can only produce one converted game. It doesn't really make sense for the world to change each time you convert it. The world is the way it is, and the conversion rules should reflect that by having as little arbitrariness and randomness as possible.

I really do not know how you guys decide stuff...
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Well, It's really up to Idhrendur, he decides which algorithm to use. :p I just try to come up with the best ones I can.
 
DasGuntLord01 said:
Well, It's really up to Idhrendur, he decides which algorithm to use. :p I just try to come up with the best ones I can.
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True, there is the ultimate fiat by programmer, but I try to avoid using that anymore (I lost a good adviser back on the last converter by having too much of an attitude vs explaining/arguing things out). For instance, take the fast approaching issue of EU3 advisers: I have my idea, everyone else has an idea they've worked out. I really like my idea, but my plan is to implement both ideas and see how they work out, then likely eliminate the inferior one (I'm all for giving options to users, but too many options is confusing).
 
For me, De jure as own Kingdom, and outer duches as vassals sounds gut, and this shoud not create few enormus blobs on map. But this is only my humble opinion of course :)
 
Ideally, all kingdoms should have all direct vassals (duchies, primarily) in tact. The problem is EU3 tags. There probably won't be enough. Since a converter mod has not been discussed (and besides, we'd need to add 1000 tags, both to the EU3 and the V2 and HoI3 mods) then we need some method of merging CK2 nations such that the least significant vassals get merged out and we get lots of tags freed up.
 
I've got a question concerning factions that might not appear in EU3 generally. I'm playing a game as the Latin Empire (formed from the Fourth Crusade) right now and doing well. Will there be an ability to play as kingdoms that EU3 hasn't added in?
 
Baldwin XI said:
I've got a question concerning factions that might not appear in EU3 generally. I'm playing a game as the Latin Empire (formed from the Fourth Crusade) right now and doing well. Will there be an ability to play as kingdoms that EU3 hasn't added in?
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Your Latin Empire will convert with everything more or less in tact. The only appreciable difference will be that it won't be called "The Latin Empire".
 
DasGuntLord01 said:
Ideally, all kingdoms should have all direct vassals (duchies, primarily) in tact. The problem is EU3 tags. There probably won't be enough. Since a converter mod has not been discussed (and besides, we'd need to add 1000 tags, both to the EU3 and the V2 and HoI3 mods) then we need some method of merging CK2 nations such that the least significant vassals get merged out and we get lots of tags freed up.
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While I'm not entirely convinced that nearly all direct vassals should be intact, the current system is misleading. It'll either be removed entirely or relegated to a 'blobify' option of some kind. There wil be many many more vassals appearing in EU3 in the final converter.
 
DasGuntLord01 said:
Your Latin Empire will convert with everything more or less in tact. The only appreciable difference will be that it won't be called "The Latin Empire".
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So it will be a Catholic Byzantine Empire with Cosmopolitaine culture?
 
Baldwin XI said:
So it will be a Catholic Byzantine Empire with Cosmopolitaine culture?
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I doubt it would work out that you'd nab the Byzantine tag, it'd probably be some random leftover one. But religion and culture will probably transfer directly.
 
Yazman said:
Wait, there's another empire in CK2? Is "Latin Empire" a de jure that isn't created by default or something?
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The Latin Empire isn't a de jure empire; it doesn't even exist at the 1066 start. You need to manually start the game during the year 1204. In that year, Latin crusaders conquered the western half of the Byzantine Empire and set themselves up as the Latin Empire, the Catholic counterparts to the Orthodox Byzantines, who still held the Imperial provinces in Asia Minor. The Latin Empire didn't last very long historically, but since anything can happen in CK2's history, well...
 
In any event, once I get to 1399 I'll send you my Latin Empire save file for you to test out to see how the conversion process will affect it.
 
Baldwin XI said:
The Latin Empire isn't a de jure empire; it doesn't even exist at the 1066 start. You need to manually start the game during the year 1204. In that year, Latin crusaders conquered the western half of the Byzantine Empire and set themselves up as the Latin Empire, the Catholic counterparts to the Orthodox Byzantines, who still held the Imperial provinces in Asia Minor. The Latin Empire didn't last very long historically, but since anything can happen in CK2's history, well...
Click to expand...

Does that mean if I conquer ERE with a catholic ruler, it will become Latin Empire instead of Byzantine Empire ?


Anyway i'm looking forward to this utility, as continuing your crusader king alternate history into EU3 should lead to interesting developments :)
 
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